rev still one of the most frustrating classes to play.

[Kahrgan.7401]

My stun break costs energy. (unless traited, then you are forced to swap legends)

Activating unrelenting assault and getting CCed means I cant deactivate it to stun break or save the energy to stun break.

I lack condi cleanse.

I lack a damage immunity (glint heal is a close second, but avoiding dmg >>>>>>>> healing back from it if no one is hitting you, then you gain nothing from glint heal.)

I lack a passive immunity (like so many other classes have)

 

Designing a class that requires energy, when no other class requires energy (thieves are somewhat similar i suppose, however they have ways to get their initiative back via traits and utlilites (THAT DON'T COST INITIATIVE)

 

#why

[BeLZedaR.4790]

Then go play warrior? Sounds like you love dem passive invulns and not energy management.

[Manpag.6421]

> @"Kahrgan.7401" said:

> My stun break costs energy. (unless traited, then you are forced to swap legends)

 

But you can use it far more often than other classes, where unless you have a bar full of stun breaks you normally have a 30-50 second cooldown. Seriously, I hate playing OTHER classes because of how infrequently I can stunbreak, and that's not factoring in the 'free' one with Invocation.

 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

 

> @"Manpag.6421" said:

> > @"Kahrgan.7401" said:

> > My stun break costs energy. (unless traited, then you are forced to swap legends)

>

> But you can use it far more often than other classes, where unless you have a bar full of stun breaks you normally have a 30-50 second cooldown. Seriously, I hate playing OTHER classes because of how infrequently I can stunbreak, and that's not factoring in the 'free' one with Invocation.

>

Most of those annoying classes have passive procs that grant them stability though.

 

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Then go play warrior? Sounds like you love dem passive invulns and not energy management.

Sounds like a good idea actually. Or holosmith/power mirage. Basically classes that can't lose if you try hard enough.

[Scar.1793]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Then go play warrior? Sounds like you love dem passive invulns and not energy management.

 

Can’t play power with dual swords. The basics are good but denying that this class is underpeforming except by following the lame and unskilled condimeta, I just don’t get it.

 

It’s very annoying that unlike GW1 they don’t allow you to choose some weapon skills. Since they can clearly do it, with elementalists at least.

 

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Kahrgan.7401" said:

> #why

 

Not **every** class can be or should be as braindead trivial to play as Warrior and Thief. Sorry. That's not healthy for a game either, it's alright to have classes made specifically for beginners but there need to be some which are inherently more difficult to play, too. Otherwise experienced players get bored when they start rerolling and can't find any meaningful challenge any more.

 

> @"Scar.1793" said:

lame and unskilled condimeta

 

Please, enlighten us how spamming skills displaying fewer but larger numbers is so much more inherently skilled than spamming skills displaying more but smaller numbers. Your gameplay is probably all different, using 6 keyboards for all the complexity involved in power gameplay. Only the best of the very best can so much as create the character, nevermind play it. It's mind-blowing even to the greatest of korean pro-gamers how complicated and intricate power specs are, compared to the AA-only condi builds.

 

If you couldn't tell, /sarcasm

 

Because , for all the community loves to whine about it either way, Power and Condition are **both the exacty same**: damage. It's the very same role. They even play virtually the same, I bet if skills had no tooltips and you couldn't see numbers or conditions above enemy heads, few of us would be able to tell what damage we're causing in the first place.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> Because , for all the community loves to whine about it either way, Power and Condition are **both the exacty same**: damage. It's the very same role. They even play virtually the same, I bet if skills had no tooltips and you couldn't see numbers or conditions above enemy heads, few of us would be able to tell what damage we're causing in the first place.

 

Except for power you need 3 stats for it to work properly and only 1 for condition damage based build effectively allowing you to dump the rest into something else (e.g trailblazer wvw cancer). Also, there is such a thing as weakness. Once you catch it on your power class against half-intelligent scourge you can not go offense and I doubt revenant can survive unsuccessful engage into scourge or pre-patch condi mesmer. Gj on referring to korean pro-gamers in esl dead game though :/

 

 

UPD Oh and yeah, protection is also affecting power build duh

 

[Kahrgan.7401]

People defending revs is hilarious.

 

No one is asking for a braindead class. I'm saying that compared to other classes we are more frustrating to play because of design choices.

 

If you like masochism, don't shove it onto us.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> Except for power you need 3 stats for it to work properly and only 1 for condition damage based build effectively allowing you to dump the rest into something else (e.g trailblazer wvw cancer). Also, there is such a thing as weakness. Once you catch it on your power class against half-intelligent scourge you can not go offense and I doubt revenant can survive unsuccessful engage into scourge or pre-patch condi mesmer. Gj on referring to korean pro-gamers in esl dead game though :/

 

Yeah but those are number shifting modifiers. Again, if we could not see numbers/effects, you wouldn't be able to tell. The gameplay is not affected at an underlying level by this distinction between power and condition.

 

Which, to be fair, is entirely expected. There's a reason virtually any other MMORPG uses the two for class identity, having some classes be more DD- and some more DoT-centric.

 

 

[Ertrak.9506]

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> > @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > Because , for all the community loves to whine about it either way, Power and Condition are **both the exacty same**: damage. It's the very same role. They even play virtually the same, I bet if skills had no tooltips and you couldn't see numbers or conditions above enemy heads, few of us would be able to tell what damage we're causing in the first place.

>

> Except for power you need 3 stats for it to work properly and only 1 for condition damage based build effectively allowing you to dump the rest into something else (e.g trailblazer wvw cancer). Also, there is such a thing as weakness. Once you catch it on your power class against half-intelligent scourge you can not go offense and I doubt revenant can survive unsuccessful engage into scourge or pre-patch condi mesmer. Gj on referring to korean pro-gamers in esl dead game though :/

>

>

> UPD Oh and yeah, protection is also affecting power build duh

>

 

"Trailblazer wvw cancer"

 

...yet 90% of guilds are running power specs for their dps :thinking:

 

But yeah condi is tooootally meta bois

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

>The gameplay is not affected at an underlying level by this distinction between power and condition.

 

You might go look at how many attacks would it require you take down a traiblazer scourge comparing to marauder reaper, just for scale.

 

> @"Ertrak.9506" said:

> ...yet 90% of guilds are running power specs for their dps :thinking:

>

> But yeah condi is tooootally meta bois

 

What are you talking about exactly.

[Kahrgan.7401]

> @"Kahrgan.7401" said:

> My stun break costs energy. (unless traited, then you are forced to swap legends)

> Activating unrelenting assault and getting CCed means I cant deactivate it to stun break or save the energy to stun break.

> I lack condi cleanse.

> I lack a damage immunity (glint heal is a close second, but avoiding dmg >>>>>>>> healing back from it if no one is hitting you, then you gain nothing from glint heal.)

> I lack a passive immunity (like so many other classes have)

>

> Designing a class that requires energy, when no other class requires energy (thieves are somewhat similar i suppose, however they have ways to get their initiative back via traits and utlilites (THAT DON'T COST INITIATIVE) is fundamentally broken.

>

> #why

 

 

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

Honestly, I think the rev is balanced pretty well. Some of the traits have some sense of flavor to them, but many need more interesting things.

 

The issue lies with the traits like adding 7% dmg and/or having a 25-33% speed boost, or makes a specific weapon attack faster or heal ( don't like weapons specific traits) these are representations of shitty traits. The new Brutality trait has really nice flavor - you have to have meet this specific condition for this to happen, ie... need to have swiftness to remove stab. That means if you want to remove stab, you have to find a way to get swiftness. Is it useful in every game mode - no, unless Anet starts giving more PvE mobs more boons, which I think they should.

 

I really wish more traits were toned like this for every profession, where each trait only does one thing and you need to choose what that one thing is. It should be a real choice. You can have this or that, but not both - traits need to compete with eachother. Also, the oh shit traits that activate without you doing anything - such as making you invulnerable, healing, speed boosts, etc. should be removed. having complete invulnerability should be removed from the game, or add a break bar to it or ability to corrupt it into a daze or something. Also, stealth shouldn't have a multiplier - it should be this is the duration and done. Plus, more skills need the ability to remove or place a condition that shortens the stealth duration.

 

Seriously, rev doing 22-27k dps rotations should probably be standard and these classes pulling 32-37k dps rotation should be toned down. This is were the real issue is - most all of the other professions are way over tuned, because everyone says, buff, buff, buff and when any real balance happens, ppl cry it was a nerf and ask for them to be fired. Just read reddit right now, some 12 yr is crying because his condi mirage build doesn't insta-down ppl anymore and saying the balance team needs to be fired.

 

Like I have always stated. Balance the skills and utilities to a specific standard, then add traits to see how it effects the skills and utilities, but only allow every trait to only do one thing for flavor. I know it is probably harder than it sounds, but it is a place to start.

 

TLDR - rev is ok (needs some tweeks), but most every other profession should be tuned down.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> Seriously, rev doing 22-27k dps rotations should probably be standard and these classes pulling 32-37k dps rotation should be toned down. This is were the real issue is - most all of the other professions are way over tuned, because everyone says, buff, buff, buff and when any real balance happens, ppl cry it was a nerf and ask for them to be fired. Just read reddit right now, some 12 yr is crying because his condi mirage build doesn't insta-down ppl anymore and saying the balance team needs to be fired.

Yeah but then again we might see another bunker meta because classes would simply lack damage. And tbh some marauder/zerk amulet classes aren't really far from being viable as bunkers even without any healing power atm

 

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > Seriously, rev doing 22-27k dps rotations should probably be standard and these classes pulling 32-37k dps rotation should be toned down. This is were the real issue is - most all of the other professions are way over tuned, because everyone says, buff, buff, buff and when any real balance happens, ppl cry it was a nerf and ask for them to be fired. Just read reddit right now, some 12 yr is crying because his condi mirage build doesn't insta-down ppl anymore and saying the balance team needs to be fired.

> Yeah but then again we might see another bunker meta because classes would simply lack damage. And tbh some marauder/zerk amulet classes aren't really far from being viable as bunkers even without any healing power atm

>

That is an issue, but if everything is designed around balance and a risk reward system. It shouldn't be a huge issue. I am going to use the example that I think that is really good at explaining issue with giving to much stuff in traits.

 

Warrior: Minor Grandmaster in Defense called, Spiked Armor.

This is what is does. Gain retaliation when you block or are struck by a critical hit. Retaliation gives you bonus toughness. There could be 3 traits just out of this one trait.

Example:

1) Gain retaliation when you block.

2) Gain retaliation when you are struck by a critical hit

3) Retaliation gives you bonus (+???) toughness (this would need to be moved to another trait line)

 

You can't have retaliation in both instances - it is one or the other. Then if one of the conditions is met - then then do you receive + toughness bonus. So if you don't block or if your opponent has low crit chance you won't get retaliation or extra toughness.

 

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I think rev is also frustrating to play, but for different reasons. Energy is fine, stun breaks are fine (btw switching legends doesn't cost energy and is a stun break), and no we don't need unvulns. We have extreme resistance application if you really want it. My problem is with customization and the feeling of being locked into a build without any sort of ability to tweak it. Traits are very specific to the legend you're in so you are basically stuck with the ones from your legend. No salvation or boosting survivability without taking ventari and full speccing into healing. No boosting shortbow with corruption line or things like that. Every legend is locked with the same skills. Not even getting 1 extra skill option like every other class. This sucks because some utilities are highly situational, like renegades bleed summon which is useless on power builds. Also with the elite specs herald and renegade, they have 5 of the same type of skills. What the heck, like I don't need 5 summons on one build, 2 or 3 is enough and the rest are a waste of space. On herald I only need like 2-3 upkeep skills, not five. The illusion that rev has more options because it has two utilities needs to end, because we may only use like one more utility than other classes. The only extra thing we get is a second heal, but both heals are watered down so I gotta use two heals to achieve the same benefit as 1 heal.

[messiah.1908]

i think rev is close to be in the right place . the only tweak is having 3 more cleanse abilities buff.

 

renegade F skills (like f4) cleanse 1 condition every sec,

ventari trait line or invocation trait line when dodge or when swap legend cleanse 2 conditions,

and one with staff #4 skill make it 3 cleanse.

 

than rev will be ok

[Obtena.7952]

You choose a high-skill threshold class ... so yeah, it's hard to play. This isn't new either; it's always been that way.

[Kahrgan.7401]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You choose a high-skill threshold class ... so yeah, it's hard to play. This isn't new either; it's always been that way.

 

best have high-skill players be on different classes :)