Is the necromancer fórum relevant?

[Xuazinegueri.3592]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

> > >

> > > It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

> > >

> > > It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

> > >

> >

> > Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

>

> Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

>

>

 

How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> If class mechanic is strong in pvp just by itself, there never will be a balanced state. If you boost dmg = pvp Will be Broken ,if you lower DPS=out for pve.I guess this have only solution => rework base Mechanic. Why rework? Because splits will be so big and drastic, this looks like a eziest way. My opinion. Sry for my Eng. ?

 

You are right but most necromancer are reluctant to give up the base mechanic. From my point of view the issue is and have always been the defensive aspect of the shroud. Move this defensive aspect to the spectral skills and suddenly core and reaper become viable everywhere. But this mean giving up the second health bar and that's something difficult to accept for most necromancers. Note that scourge would need some change as well since it could make them to "tanky" (not that anything is well done on this e-spec anyway).

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

 

This is exactly right, we can go back and pull video comments if anyone wants to see them but the Reaper was designed to be a powerful DPS player and that has changed drastically. Every role they outline for us changes as soon as it negatively impacts PvP and frankly it's only gotten worse. This class is in the most need of a complete split and doing that is likely the only real way of fixing it across the board.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

> > >

> >

> > And scourge was barely relevant in pve and all the complaining about it in pvp got it nerfed. Point being: we're both in the same ship, and neither of us wants the other on it. Necro either needs to be split between pvp and pve, since all the things that make it op in pvp is of no use in pve, or have a complete rework. Many people have been asking for this, and this last balance patch just solidified their case: We need to either split pvp and pve, or rework necro.

>

> Condi Reaper used to actually have competitive DPS. They could have just increased the duration of the bleeds applied by Deathly Chill by 2 seconds and we would have had top level DPS. But that's not what reddit/the forum wanted, no it just _had_ be power reaper.

>

 

Not forgetting that that was the form that deadly chill took because it was deemed too op on pvp in its previous form, while being fairly decent in pve. Solidifying the case that a spit is required between the two.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> Obtena posts like he or she is a relevant part of the Anet development team and has a finger on all the Anet inner workings brought on by some sense that gaming experience grants you psychic abilities. As far as being relevant i think after seeing more Mesmer buffs that will allow the builds to top well over 44k damage you can most certainly draw the conclusion that we are not a priority when it comes to DPS or any fixes of consequence. I draw that conclusion from playing a Necro from beta and having never seen the light of day as far as respectable offensive skills., and now poor defensive abilities.

> Honestly i had hoped that Mike Z would have made it a priority to review the performance of each department and even tried reaching out to no avail, so i hold very little hope that any true and relevant fixes or changes are coming our way anytime soon. The only way that happens if they break away from the current expansion mode targeting new Elites and move to other races which will actually give the balance team some real time to earnestly spend on each class.

 

Really? So I need to be part of Anet development team to see that the suggestions people are posting to the forums aren't getting implemented by Anet? OK then ..

 

Sorry, I don't see it that way. Any observant individual can see we aren't getting the suggestions people are recommending. You don't need to work at Anet to see that ... just pay attention.

 

The forum is very relevant for lots of things ... players getting their ideas/suggestions for the class implemented by Anet isn't one of them.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

 

> That's the problem, they increased damage in shroud form then decreased the time you can be in that form and return to it by increasing it from 7 to 10 seconds, thereby negating the buff to begin with. I am pretty bloody certain had they increased damage outside of shroud and nerfed shroud there would have been far less complaining. The fact is as many have said every time they buff something they negate the positive aspects of that buff in another way, it's horseshit and people are getting tired of it.

> Buff damage outside of shroud or return shroud to it's former duration so we can take advantage of the buff. Also don't ever lose sight of the fact that the LF nerf to vital persistence was not based on trying to bring that particular skill to the same level of their counterparts in other trait lines, it was done as a hurried solution to getting the scourge out without it being overpowered, since it would clearly have been a major game breaker. They are stuck in a never ending loop and someone has been butt hurt by Necromancers in PvP and it clearly shows up in the fact that all the balance is directly around that paly style and PvE is not taken into account. Bite the bullet, separate the skills in this class and fix the bloody thing properly.

 

Yes, they completely botched that one. Not only did they saboutage their own damage buff (most of it in shroud, but guess what, now you can't sustain it for more then few secs), they **killed the core aspect of reaper** - that is being highly tanky, durable monster, that relies on his shroud to both attack and defend far more then core necro could. Well now that's dead and I can easily attest that i feel far more tanky on my apotecary scourge, then any reaper build...

[Rym.1469]

Forum likely is, but majority of the posts on it aren't.

[Arzurag.7506]

> @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

> > > >

> > > > It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

> > > >

> > > > It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

> >

> > Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

> >

> >

>

> How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

 

Reaper can hit like a truck, haven´t you seen these neat 27k crits from abilities like gravedigger ?^^

Anyway, scoring high hits is not how this game works because high damage dosn´t imply high dps and this game´s damage-dealer-role is about high dps.

The role of a bruiser now is impossible in a game like this due bruiser being hard to kill by default, dealing decent damage and in addition a bruiser has normally enough (defense)options to go 1vs5 in terms of pvp. In pve however reaper is a bruiser, at least in open-world-pve, that thing what the game consists of for 70%.

[Xuazinegueri.3592]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

> > > > >

> > > > > It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

> > > > >

> > > > > It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

> > >

> > > Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

>

> Reaper can hit like a truck, haven´t you seen these neat 27k crits from abilities like gravedigger ?^^

> Anyway, scoring high hits is not how this game works because high damage dosn´t imply high dps and this game´s damage-dealer-role is about high dps.

> The role of a bruiser now is impossible in a game like this due bruiser being hard to kill by default, dealing decent damage and in addition a bruiser has normally enough (defense)options to go 1vs5 in terms of pvp. In pve however reaper is a bruiser, at least in open-world-pve, that thing what the game consists of for 70%.

 

I didn say that we CANT hit hard. Yes, we hit hard, but we cant land the hits. And thats a fact, we dont have tools that able it because every single profession has better mobility and utility options than us. And for PvE, ok, gravedigger crit hits hard but did u see the DPS of a weaver? Even in small sized enemies, their DPS is higher.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

> > > >

> > > > Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

> >

> > Reaper can hit like a truck, haven´t you seen these neat 27k crits from abilities like gravedigger ?^^

> > Anyway, scoring high hits is not how this game works because high damage dosn´t imply high dps and this game´s damage-dealer-role is about high dps.

> > The role of a bruiser now is impossible in a game like this due bruiser being hard to kill by default, dealing decent damage and in addition a bruiser has normally enough (defense)options to go 1vs5 in terms of pvp. In pve however reaper is a bruiser, at least in open-world-pve, that thing what the game consists of for 70%.

>

> I didn say that we CANT hit hard. Yes, we hit hard, but we cant land the hits. And thats a fact, we dont have tools that able it because every single profession has better mobility and utility options than us. And for PvE, ok, gravedigger crit hits hard but did u see the DPS of a weaver? Even in small sized enemies, their DPS is higher.

 

I have a problem with this line of thinking because successful players supplement their own tools with those of their groups/surrounding players; it's clear that Anet does not ensure that classes have ever tool they need on demand, or if they do, it's not without some level of challenging play. If you are playing a class that is seriously deficient in something in a specific configuration, you need to consider your options; live with it, team up with people that can supply you with what you are deficient in or consider how your build needs to change to bridge the gap.

 

There is also a big problem with comparing DPS of other classes; it's irrelevant what the other classes do because they have their own unique design and deficiencies. If being successful is more important to you than playing the class theme you like, then play the classes you view as successful.

 

 

[Xuazinegueri.3592]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How reaper was never designed to be a DPS class? ANet said that he was suppose to hit slow, but hit like a truck. Ok, after last buff on power reaper, we can hit hard, but only in PvP and WHEN we can land the hits. If we were made to be a bruiser, we should have more tools to be a bruiser, defensive options or mobility sources. About what ANet tried to do, Scourge is the same thing, our HEAVY support that's the worst support and was top dps(on pvp, ofc, pve isnt a thing for us) with out AoE presence, until we get hit into the ground. ANet looks to not know what she wants to do, every single try on out specializacionts didnt ended as they wanted, its a fact

> > >

> > > Reaper can hit like a truck, haven´t you seen these neat 27k crits from abilities like gravedigger ?^^

> > > Anyway, scoring high hits is not how this game works because high damage dosn´t imply high dps and this game´s damage-dealer-role is about high dps.

> > > The role of a bruiser now is impossible in a game like this due bruiser being hard to kill by default, dealing decent damage and in addition a bruiser has normally enough (defense)options to go 1vs5 in terms of pvp. In pve however reaper is a bruiser, at least in open-world-pve, that thing what the game consists of for 70%.

> >

> > I didn say that we CANT hit hard. Yes, we hit hard, but we cant land the hits. And thats a fact, we dont have tools that able it because every single profession has better mobility and utility options than us. And for PvE, ok, gravedigger crit hits hard but did u see the DPS of a weaver? Even in small sized enemies, their DPS is higher.

>

> I have a problem with this line of thinking because successful players supplement their own tools with those of their groups/surrounding players; it's clear that Anet does not ensure that classes have ever tool they need on demand, or if they do, it's not without some level of challenging play. If you are playing a class that is seriously deficient in something in a specific configuration, you need to consider your options; live with it, team up with people that can supply you with what you are deficient in or consider how your build needs to change to bridge the gap.

>

> There is also a big problem with comparing DPS of other classes; it's irrelevant what the other classes do because they have their own unique design and deficiencies. If being successful is more important to you than playing the class theme you like, then play the classes you view as successful.

>

>

 

Ok, I know some classes should have weaknesses and they should be covered by other allies but reaper is a bad design and you know it. Doesnt make sense play a profession that cant add anything for your team. Scourge does everything that reaper does, but better. So i should accept it and shut my mouth? Its ANet job provide balance and support to make all classes viable, and not meta. Reaper isnt viable. Reaper is bad designed, has a low end game DPS and is outdate by scourge in every single aspect on pvp scenarios. And yes, we have to compare professions, there should be a balance so ones wouldnt be useless and others a must on the parties.

[Obtena.7952]

If you can't be successful with reaper, don't play it. You said it yourself; it doesn't make sense to play a profession that can't add anything to the team. If we are to believe that Anet tracks what specs players are using, then not playing specs we think are broken is contributing to the data they need to show what needs attention.

[Xuazinegueri.3592]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> If you can't be successful with reaper, don't play it. You said it yourself; it doesn't make sense to play a profession that can't add anything to the team. If we are to believe that Anet tracks what specs players are using, then not playing specs we think are broken is contributing to the data they need to show what needs attention.

 

What doesnt make sense is your way of thinking. "Dont play the profession". As i said before, what you suggest is to shut your mouth and accept it. I can play reaper if I want, but no ones want me on endgame content using reaper. For PvP, I won't run it because scourge is better. Running reaper dont make sense. And you say what? Stop playing the class you like just because is trash and wait? If things works like this, they shouldnt, and here is the problem

[Obtena.7952]

You are typical of the people that complain about their class not being meta. You have to choose. If you want access to larger numbers of teams where you are wanted, the closer to a highly desirable meta build you have to play. OK, you know that. But you really like the theme of a specific class and want to play it ... and if it's not on the desirable list, you have a problem.

 

From playing this game for over 5 years, Anet is what I would describe as borderline immune to these kinds of 'problems', because they don't view the game the same way as you and a good fraction of other people do. They have designed the game so that a large range of builds and team compositions can complete the instanced content. Therefore, it makes little sense to them to balance class performance to the players' ideas of what meta is. In fact, doing so would only REINFORCE the problem you are seeing, not fix it.

 

So my way of thinking is exactly the solution to this problem; you must choose between playing a class, or build, you like and having reduced options, or not playing it all because the thing restricting you isn't something Anet has put into the game that they can change, it's the attitudes of players that play in a very specific way.

[Xuazinegueri.3592]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You are typical of the people that complain about their class not being meta. You have to choose. If you want access to larger numbers of teams where you are wanted, the closer to a highly desirable meta build you have to play. OK, you know that. But you really like the theme of a specific class and want to play it ... and if it's not on the desirable list, you have a problem.

>

> From playing this game for over 5 years, Anet is what I would describe as borderline immune to these kinds of 'problems', because they don't view the game the same way as you and a good fraction of other people do. They have designed the game so that a large range of builds and team compositions can complete the instanced content. Therefore, it makes little sense to them to balance class performance to the players' ideas of what meta is. In fact, doing so would only REINFORCE the problem you are seeing, not fix it.

>

> So my way of thinking is exactly the solution to this problem; you must choose between playing a class, or build, you like and having reduced options, or not playing it all because the thing restricting you isn't something Anet has put into the game that they can change, it's the attitudes of players that play in a very specific way.

 

The problem of having a meta isnt the meta. Meta should shift between the classes, but ANet dont make balances so often, even if the comunity asks for it. For example, MOBAs, meta almost change every 2 patches. Ok, i know its totally different, there are a LOT OF characters to change/fix/buff/nerf and the effect of buffing some or nerfing others have a lot of impact in more things that it would have in GW2. But c'mon, this isnt a reason to let a class underperform for 5 years. And underperform because its bad designed. Its not hard to solve this.

[tontonUB.4687]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> Obtena posts like he or she is a relevant part of the Anet development team and has a finger on all the Anet inner workings brought on by some sense that gaming experience grants you psychic abilities. As far as being relevant i think after seeing more Mesmer buffs that will allow the builds to top well over 44k damage you can most certainly draw the conclusion that we are not a priority when it comes to DPS or any fixes of consequence. I draw that conclusion from playing a Necro from beta and having never seen the light of day as far as respectable offensive skills., and now poor defensive abilities.

> Honestly i had hoped that Mike Z would have made it a priority to review the performance of each department and even tried reaching out to no avail, so i hold very little hope that any true and relevant fixes or changes are coming our way anytime soon. The only way that happens if they break away from the current expansion mode targeting new Elites and move to other races which will actually give the balance team some real time to earnestly spend on each class.

 

in the case you didnt notice :

O B T E N A ------> A N E T B O

then add a 'T' in the end and you got the answer. Call me parano' but i don't believe to such anomalies being senseless.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > You are typical of the people that complain about their class not being meta. You have to choose. If you want access to larger numbers of teams where you are wanted, the closer to a highly desirable meta build you have to play. OK, you know that. But you really like the theme of a specific class and want to play it ... and if it's not on the desirable list, you have a problem.

> >

> > From playing this game for over 5 years, Anet is what I would describe as borderline immune to these kinds of 'problems', because they don't view the game the same way as you and a good fraction of other people do. They have designed the game so that a large range of builds and team compositions can complete the instanced content. Therefore, it makes little sense to them to balance class performance to the players' ideas of what meta is. In fact, doing so would only REINFORCE the problem you are seeing, not fix it.

> >

> > So my way of thinking is exactly the solution to this problem; you must choose between playing a class, or build, you like and having reduced options, or not playing it all because the thing restricting you isn't something Anet has put into the game that they can change, it's the attitudes of players that play in a very specific way.

>

> The problem of having a meta isnt the meta. Meta should shift between the classes, but ANet dont make balances so often, even if the comunity asks for it. For example, MOBAs, meta almost change every 2 patches. Ok, i know its totally different, there are a LOT OF characters to change/fix/buff/nerf and the effect of buffing some or nerfing others have a lot of impact in more things that it would have in GW2. But c'mon, this isnt a reason to let a class underperform for 5 years. And underperform because its bad designed. Its not hard to solve this.

 

True, the problem isn't the meta ... players are going to find the most optimal way to solve content no matter what. I can't tell you why Anet doesn't make balance patches very often, but that's not relevant anyways. Again, Anet can't legitimize the meta style of play or they risk contradicting their whole philosophy to the game. Therefore, using the balance patch as a method to arbitrarily choose classes that are 'up next' in the meta ladder makes no sense to them.

 

I would be careful though. A recent balance patch actually did what you are asking for here ... restored performance. You aren't having problems finding teams because you are underperforming, it's because the class isn't meta. Underperforming and non-meta are not the same thing.

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

There are a number of "leaps of logic" in this thread - beware of them.

 

At the end of the day, effort on balance depends on budget with effort allocation for each profession and number of hours allocated to each profession. Strategy, thematic review, implementation, verification, internal feedback, and a lot of things people tend to forget or are not aware of suck... the... money (life) from any ideals.

 

A thousand ideas in this forum may be distilled (I'm drinking, now) into a "lowest hours" effort. Buy tons of gems, everyone, and that effort will (probably) increase.

 

Your base are belong to us.

[DeceiverX.8361]

People still not recognizing that PvE "metas" are a misnomer and don't actually exist...

 

PvE is a solvable equation and only ANet making changes to totally add/remove classes/builds from this will change viability. Unless AI starts mirroring player behavior extremely well and the difficulty is ratcheted up from the intelligence perspective, the "meta" in PvE will always be just another optimization from number-crunching.

 

Either a build is optimized or not. PvP is the only context where a real metagame can exist and thus should be the basis for numerical and conceptual balance.

 

Something not being viable in PvE is a result of the encounter design space and nothing more. People optimize for DPS because of the enrage timer. If a boss had extreme damage resistance and negated hard resistances and aggressively punished support play with insane damage numbers at the start, and these numbers got progressively weaker from the boss getting "fatigued" as a result of its initial "enraged" state - like a thief burning initiative - the optimization would be full-tank parties because it'd downright wipe groups of glass unless played to perfection.

 

Reaper got butchered because the reaper's underlying design would do well in more sustained fights, and now it can't hold its own in the PvP formats because they nerfed its sustain by 75% for most builds and made it a burst-bot with no unpredictability/ability to stand its ground that's extremely easy to counterplay.