Don't torment the axe!!!!!

[Curunen.8729]

It is sad.

 

Axe feels so monotone right now and brainless torment application. No reward for landing a full 3 clone axe 3 - just more kitten torment which I could have just spammed with ambushes/axe2/aa/staff/shatters...

 

Boring uninspired and flavourless.

 

I still love axe animations and astralaria too much to put it down but it's certainly not where it should be right now.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Give back confu. Rework illusion Grand Master for scepter and " upgrade shatters"

[Thornum.8607]

> @"Galeskyring.9617" said:

> The fact it's been **nearly a week without a response** to how much backlash there is to this change is very enraging, it was uncalled for and here inspite of the huge protest to it we are not seeing any sign of a legitimate fix or reverse of this blatantly bat change.

 

If only they would give us some insight as to why the choice had to be made, and whether the backlash is even something that is being discussed currently, or if they've already definitively decided upon the current approach, it would reduce the amount of outcries and uncertainty that is still around. To make a fitting analogy on this special day: if you break up with someone, you don't go into radio silence, you man up and tell them why. Sure, you risk being scolded for making your decision based on poor judgement, but at least you're honest and transparent. On the other hand, if you're unable to explain the reasoning for your decision properly, maybe you should have thought it through a little more.

[Oglaf.1074]

They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

> @"Thornum.8607" said:

> > @"Galeskyring.9617" said:

> > The fact it's been **nearly a week without a response** to how much backlash there is to this change is very enraging, it was uncalled for and here inspite of the huge protest to it we are not seeing any sign of a legitimate fix or reverse of this blatantly bat change.

>

> If only they would give us some insight as to why the choice had to be made, and whether the backlash is even something that is being discussed currently, or if they've already definitively decided upon the current approach, it would reduce the amount of outcries and uncertainty that is still around. To make a fitting analogy on this special day: if you break up with someone, you don't go into radio silence, you man up and tell them why. Sure, you risk being scolded for making your decision based on poor judgement, but at least you're honest and transparent. On the other hand, if you're unable to explain the reasoning for your decision properly, maybe you should have thought it through a little more.

 

is what has ... the lack of communication of Arenanet with the community, especially those who work on "balancing" skills, etc. And the worst is that they are not flexible, and make changes every 3 months, it is very long and painful, because if they touch a nerf or have forgotten to fix a bug in some skills, you have to wait until after 3 months .

 

If there were at least 1 or 2 workers who put themselves in contact with us, with the community, in the forums, that interact ... because now it seems more like a dictatorship. Only for what they think.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

 

Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

 

The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

>

> Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

 

Confusion. Not Torment.

 

The Torment is a band-aid fix because they messed everything up with their refusal to split Confusion.

 

Confusion, which for the record, was fine in PvE prior to this change.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> >

> > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

>

> Confusion. Not Torment.

>

> The Torment is a band-aid fix because they messed everything up with their refusal to split Confusion.

>

> Confusion, which for the record, was fine in PvE prior to this change.

 

They changed confusion for pvp.

 

But they changed axe to torment for pve.

 

So overall pve still gets to do dps rotations as before, but in pvp axe has suffered despite the confusion change initially being intended for it.

 

I find that pretty stupid tbh.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> > >

> > > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> >

> > Confusion. Not Torment.

> >

> > The Torment is a band-aid fix because they messed everything up with their refusal to split Confusion.

> >

> > Confusion, which for the record, was fine in PvE prior to this change.

>

> They changed confusion for pvp.

>

> But they changed axe to torment for pve.

>

> So overall pve still gets to do dps rotations as before, but in pvp axe has suffered despite the confusion change initially being intended for it.

>

> I find that pretty stupid tbh.

 

The whole situation is stupid, really.

 

Way to kill the Mesmer class identity and stuff, lol.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Zania.8461" said:

> While the "split confusion between PvE and PvP" might sound like a trivial task, I suspect it might not be so. Mechanically what would most likely need to be done is creation of completely new condition (lets call it confusion_old) and then splitting every single confusion applying skill between PvE (where the skill/trait would apply confusion_old) and PvP (where it would apply confusion_new). And then they would need to keep track of all of that every time they patch individual skills/traits.

That's the kicker - the confusion was _already_ split before the last patch. So yes, they _can_ do that.

 

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

More like they've forgotten about PvE side altogether, and when the player reaction reminded them, instead of doing the sensible thing and revert they went into panic mode and tried a fast (and equally not too well thought out) band-aid fix.

 

 

 

[melrokk.5938]

Who knows how to make sure that the developers Anet heard **our pain** and took measures to correct the situation with the **skills of mirage**?

I already wrote technical support, there are no answers, **5 days** have passed. :(

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"melrokk.5938" said:

> Who knows how to make sure that the developers Anet heard **our pain** and took measures to correct the situation with the **skills of mirage**?

> I already wrote technical support, there are no answers, **5 days** have passed. :(

 

Unfortunately Anet has a very hard time admitting they messed up or didn’t think something through. Such as why leave torment as is but nerf confusion into the ground? It doesn’t make sense. And we’ll never know. They shouldn’t have nerfed the damage, removed passive tick in PvP/WvW, and durations. It was unnecessary when one of the three would have sufficed.

 

[Galeskyring.9617]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"melrokk.5938" said:

> > Who knows how to make sure that the developers Anet heard **our pain** and took measures to correct the situation with the **skills of mirage**?

> > I already wrote technical support, there are no answers, **5 days** have passed. :(

>

> Unfortunately Anet has a very hard time admitting they messed up or didn’t think something through. Such as why leave torment as is but nerf confusion into the ground? It doesn’t make sense. And we’ll never know. They shouldn’t have nerfed the damage, removed passive tick in PvP/WvW, and durations. It was unnecessary when one of the three would have sufficed.

>

 

Very true, and the fact they've proven they can quickly make changes it's quite baffling they've not dressed this and some other issues more promptly.

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

Arenanet is slowly destroying the essence of the mesmer, little by little it will stop being gw2, and it will become another mmrpg of the bunch, but boring and with worse pvp. Gw2 does not look like anything in Gw1, much less the mesmer, it just keeps the name, to say the least. But come on ... little hope is left to Gw2, with how badly they work on the "balance" of skills, especially with the mesmer.

[Levetty.1279]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

>

> Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

>

> The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

 

While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

 

I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> >

> > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> >

> > The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

>

> While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

>

> I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

 

I can accept axe ambush losing confusion as it is kind of spammable.

 

I can't accept axe 3 losing confusion because it is designed to be a burst skill - burst direct damage and condi application. Axe 3 has confusion written all over it - this being changed to torment contradicts the fact they want confusion to he a burst condition.

 

Axe 3 is not spammable (8s cool down, range and clone requirements for added damage) and it is very easy to dodge now that people are getting used to axe animations. So it makes no sense to remove confusion from this skill either thematically or for gameplay.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> >

> > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> >

> > The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

>

> While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

>

> I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

 

I can accept axe ambush losing confusion as it is kind of spammable.

 

I can't accept axe 3 losing confusion because it is designed to be a burst skill - burst direct damage and condi application. Axe 3 has confusion written all over it - this being changed to torment contradicts the fact they want confusion to he a burst condition.

 

Axe 3 is not spammable (8s cool down, range and clone requirements for added damage) and it is very easy to dodge now that people are getting used to axe animations. So it makes no sense to remove confusion from this skill either thematically or for gameplay.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> > >

> > > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> > >

> > > The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

> >

> > While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

> >

> > I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

>

> I can accept axe ambush losing confusion as it is kind of spammable.

>

> I can't accept axe 3 losing confusion because it is designed to be a burst skill - burst direct damage and condi application. Axe 3 has confusion written all over it - this being changed to torment contradicts the fact they want confusion to he a burst condition.

>

> Axe 3 is not spammable (8s cool down, range and clone requirements for added damage) and it is very easy to dodge now that people are getting used to axe animations. So it makes no sense to remove confusion from this skill either thematically or for gameplay.

 

I think Anet is going a very round about way to fix the condition issue. At the moment, due to the absurd amount of + condition duration stats available conditions that should have spike damage such as confusion, but short duration, and conditions that should do low damage, but long duration like bleed, are all lasting far longer than originally intended with the game was released. Between the core survivabilty of Mesmer and sheer tanking ability through Trailblazers(WvW), Carrion(PvP), etc that Mesmer application of conditions is a bit out of hand.

This is not a Mesmer centric problem however, but Mesmer is the easiest to target due to the fact no one likes to fight them and we have easy access to two of the most potent conditions in game. This, compared to something like burn guard which has little to no cover conditions but can spike relatively low duration, high intensity stacks, is harder to people to fight around.

 

Since we’ve not heard anything from Anet about possible fixes I highly doubt we will see any changes at all for ax or confusion in general. Hopefully this is part of some grand plan that will introduce sweeping changes to other classes and revitalize them plus the game itself. However, considering who we are talking about...

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> > > >

> > > > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> > > >

> > > > The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

> > >

> > > While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

> > >

> > > I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

> >

> > I can accept axe ambush losing confusion as it is kind of spammable.

> >

> > I can't accept axe 3 losing confusion because it is designed to be a burst skill - burst direct damage and condi application. Axe 3 has confusion written all over it - this being changed to torment contradicts the fact they want confusion to he a burst condition.

> >

> > Axe 3 is not spammable (8s cool down, range and clone requirements for added damage) and it is very easy to dodge now that people are getting used to axe animations. So it makes no sense to remove confusion from this skill either thematically or for gameplay.

>

> I think Anet is going a very round about way to fix the condition issue. At the moment, due to the absurd amount of + condition duration stats available conditions that should have spike damage such as confusion, but short duration, and conditions that should do low damage, but long duration like bleed, are all lasting far longer than originally intended with the game was released. Between the core survivabilty of Mesmer and sheer tanking ability through Trailblazers(WvW), Carrion(PvP), etc that Mesmer application of conditions is a bit out of hand.

> This is not a Mesmer centric problem however, but Mesmer is the easiest to target due to the fact no one likes to fight them and we have easy access to two of the most potent conditions in game. This, compared to something like burn guard which has little to no cover conditions but can spike relatively low duration, high intensity stacks, is harder to people to fight around.

>

> Since we’ve not heard anything from Anet about possible fixes I highly doubt we will see any changes at all for ax or confusion in general. Hopefully this is part of some grand plan that will introduce sweeping changes to other classes and revitalize them plus the game itself. However, considering who we are talking about...

 

I still think, all things considered this was a successful overhaul, the first of several to follow I hope. Did they get everything right? No. But a lot was addressed, even if they went a little over the top with the mind wrack ammo, and redesigning confusion just to take it away a week later.

The phantasm change is exhilarating.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > They have given you a response: they wanted it changed for PvP and couldn’t bother to split Confusion in PvE/PvP.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually the torment change looks to be strictly for PvE.

> > > > >

> > > > > The axe was fine in pvp and wvw with confusion on 3 and ambush. It has been changed all to torment so PvE dps rotations don't suffer because people were moaning about axe being useless in pve, which is why I am annoyed.

> > > >

> > > > While they said the change was to fix axe in PvE, you have to remember that as well as the Phantasm changes, one of the goals of the patch was to nerf Condition Mirage in PvP and make confusion more bursty, reducing the amount of conditions Mesmers can regularly apply does serve this purpose.

> > > >

> > > > I still think they should revert the changes to axe and PvE confusion though.

> > >

> > > I can accept axe ambush losing confusion as it is kind of spammable.

> > >

> > > I can't accept axe 3 losing confusion because it is designed to be a burst skill - burst direct damage and condi application. Axe 3 has confusion written all over it - this being changed to torment contradicts the fact they want confusion to he a burst condition.

> > >

> > > Axe 3 is not spammable (8s cool down, range and clone requirements for added damage) and it is very easy to dodge now that people are getting used to axe animations. So it makes no sense to remove confusion from this skill either thematically or for gameplay.

> >

> > I think Anet is going a very round about way to fix the condition issue. At the moment, due to the absurd amount of + condition duration stats available conditions that should have spike damage such as confusion, but short duration, and conditions that should do low damage, but long duration like bleed, are all lasting far longer than originally intended with the game was released. Between the core survivabilty of Mesmer and sheer tanking ability through Trailblazers(WvW), Carrion(PvP), etc that Mesmer application of conditions is a bit out of hand.

> > This is not a Mesmer centric problem however, but Mesmer is the easiest to target due to the fact no one likes to fight them and we have easy access to two of the most potent conditions in game. This, compared to something like burn guard which has little to no cover conditions but can spike relatively low duration, high intensity stacks, is harder to people to fight around.

> >

> > Since we’ve not heard anything from Anet about possible fixes I highly doubt we will see any changes at all for ax or confusion in general. Hopefully this is part of some grand plan that will introduce sweeping changes to other classes and revitalize them plus the game itself. However, considering who we are talking about...

>

> I still think, all things considered this was a successful overhaul, the first of several to follow I hope. Did they get everything right? No. But a lot was addressed, even if they went a little over the top with the mind wrack ammo, and redesigning confusion just to take it away a week later.

> The phantasm change is exhilarating.

 

No doubt, I love the phantasm change. It frees up are dps so we aren’t reliant on maintaining 3, not shattering, etc

I like the mind wrack change, it’s different. The biggest issue with this patch is confusion because it affects multiple classes not just Mesmer. Well that and randomly throwing torment on a weaponset because you nerfed it

[Vieux P.1238]

I would accept torment Axe as is if they added every hit with AXE AA = Boonstrip including on ambush & clones. See how some of them immortal builds on zerky builds feels after there boons are taken away.

[melrokk.5938]

Maybe it's time to enter a new condition?

Or all the same it is easier to fix confusion, to return as it was.

Correct only for PvP mode.

 

Why are the Anet developers so rarely answering the forum? :(

Apparently those changes that are now will not be corrected or supplemented by the next **3 to 6 months**. :(

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"melrokk.5938" said:

> Maybe it's time to enter a new condition?

> Or all the same it is easier to fix confusion, to return as it was.

> Correct only for PvP mode.

>

> Why are the Anet developers so rarely answering the forum? :(

> Apparently those changes that are now will not be corrected or supplemented by the next **3 to 6 months**. :(

 

Having access to more burn(but not solely through ax) would be nice. Yes fixing confusion would be easier but it’s unlikely. The issue, purely my opinion, is Anet doesn’t know how to balance conditions with the amount of condition duration stats are available. Ideally confusion would be a high intensity, short duration condition, it wasn’t. It was high intensity, high duration and that caused many people to freak. How to fix? Removal condition duration or find a way to balance around it.

 

9 out of 10 you will not hear a response from Anet. Generally because when they comment on a change this this... it doesn’t go well for them and feelings start to get hurt.

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

The skills 3 of axe, must to inflict "Confusion" as was designed, is for punish the foe with the clone Mirage, more Torment is not effect, is add more quantity, but has no mechanics and no synergy.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Angel de Lyssa.4716" said:

> The skills 3 of axe, must to inflict "Confusion" as was designed, is for punish the foe with the clone Mirage, more Torment is not effect, is add more quantity, but has no mechanics and no synergy.

Agreed.