Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win? > DPS meters weren't a thing, and meta-obsessed people were easily ignored until Anet introduced Raids. It's the "raid endgame" mentality that is the problem, and caused things that did exist before but were minor and easily ignored to suddenly erupt and contaminate the whole game to the point where now _they_ are seemingly the mainstream. > > In short, you don't stop those people, because they cannot be stopped. They'd be asking for meta optimization and be obsessed with 120% efficiency even in games where you could literally afk enemies to death. What you can do however is to not empower those behaviours with visible dev support. Dev attitude has a massive impact on how community perceives things, even if there are no actual changes to the game that go with it. When there _are_ such changes... /shrug. I still ignore dps meters and whatever meta de jour there is. I’m not sure where it’s being imposed outside of raids. No one ever asks me for my build in general PvE. It’s unfortunate that the OP and his 15 friends weren’t able to get together as one group and do raids without dps meters or any use of meta build and at the same time ignore it in PvE, WvW and sPvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 well if you started playing with 15 friends, that's more than enough people to make your own groups for anything you want to do, that way you can avoid metas and meters and play the way you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Base game -> What a fun experience! Base game plus raids -> Literally unplayable. Riii! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Miroe.2054" said: > Base game -> What a fun experience! > Base game plus raids -> Literally unplayable. Riii! You can't raid having base game only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 If you don't do raids you can ignore all of that stuff. Even when I'm doing dungeons with the hardcore raiders in my guild they'll tell me I can bring whatever profession/build I like because they know it doesn't matter. (Even though I'm sure some of them were the same people insisting on set professions in full zerker gear before raids came along.) For raids they're a lot more strict...unless you're in the training group in which case they'll take the closest approximation of the currently popular builds you can manage. I know of other raid groups who don't even ask that - they let everyone bring what they want and figure they'll work out how to complete the raid anyway. As other people have said a group of 15 is big enough to do dungeons, raids, Fractals and anything else where elitists might be strict about your build without ever having to involve outsiders, so there was absolutely no need to deal with DPS meters or meta-builds or any of that if you didn't want to. But as other people have said if you weren't enjoying the game then leaving is probably the best choice. No point playing a game you don't enjoy. Although if the problem is that people outside your group are playing in a way you don't approve of then you might have a hard time finding a game you can stick with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > You can't raid having base game only. Then maybe they shouldn't have bought HoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Miroe.2054" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > You can't raid having base game only. > > Then maybe they shouldn't have bought HoT. > Maybe, I don't know. It doesn't change the fact that your previous comment is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
particlepinata.9865 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 What a nonsense post. I dont raid, only play openworld maps and story. Do i ever meet any Elitist mentality? Does it influence my enjoyment when playing? No, because that is contained in Raids/PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargamonth.2047 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Vargamonth.2047" said: > > I'm with Takoyakii and Mewcifer here. > > I can understand those as reasons for an individual to leave a game. It doesn't make that much sense, however, when you already have a large enough like minded player group to do things the way you like. > What does that help when the whole game changes in a way you don't like? Contrary to what some people claim, the change in game direction is present not only within raids, but indirectly impacts the rest of the game as well. > > They simply ended up feeling it was no longer a game for them. I can understand that, because that's a feeling i'm having as well. > That's fine. If a game changes in a way you dislike and those changes seem to be there to stay, that solely may be a good reason to leave a game and be vocal abut it. If that's the case, however, then the OP has completely missed the reasons why he/she and all his/her friends are leaving, because all the specified causes are solved with a big enough group of like minded people, which they actually had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksmith.6028 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 When the meter controversy was raging, those not in favor of meters said it will kill build diversity. Those in favor of meters said it will increase build diversity because you can see the damage a non-meta build/profession can do, thus proving you earned your spot. How's that working out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"jacksmith.6028" said: > When the meter controversy was raging, those not in favor of meters said it will kill build diversity. Those in favor of meters said it will increase build diversity because you can see the damage a non-meta build/profession can do, thus proving you earned your spot. How's that working out? T4 daily / Druid, Chrono,BS, 2xDPS / pots&food It's exactly the same as it was before. 20 people create and share builds and everyone plays/expects others to play them. But to achieve this you don't need dps meter. DPS golem is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vavume.8065 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Henry.5713" said: > If the introduction of completely optional raids as a tiny part of a huge and rather casual game and the formation of the supposedly terrible raiding community are enough to make people quit then those players might not have had much that kept them in the game to begin with. Leaving was probably the right decision. Size is irrelevant, if a cat did it's business in your bath you would still get out of it wouldn't you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Maybe, I don't know. It doesn't change the fact that your previous comment is wrong. Oh darn, let's dissect this then. I haven't claimed raids to be in the base game. That's what the "plus" was for. My intention was to show that even if you introduce raids, among other things, the base game is still there. The OP's claim that raids have ruined a game which otherwise has been good doesn't make a lot of sense. It's much more likely imho that the game's age and the OP's exposure to the marketing for newer games have made GW2 unattractive for them personally and now they are looking for validation to have an easier time making sense of their own subjective decision. I don't like explaining the joke but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Miroe.2054" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Maybe, I don't know. It doesn't change the fact that your previous comment is wrong. > > Oh darn, let's dissect this then. I haven't claimed raids to be in the base game. That's what the "plus" was for. My intention was to show that even if you introduce raids, among other things, the base game is still there. The OP's claim that raids have ruined a game which otherwise has been good doesn't make a lot of sense. It's much more likely imho that the game's age and the OP's exposure to the marketing for newer games have made GW2 unattractive for them personally and now they are looking for validation to have an easier time making sense of their own subjective decision. I don't like explaining the joke but there you go. Nah, your original comment was just typical meme-crowd low effort way of discrediting OP. Remember, his personal experience is the only thing that matters for him. Just like yours is the only thing that matters for you. Just because you or others are happy with raiding, it has no consequences for OP. Most comments can be summed up as "yo, OP, don't be mad, because I'm having fun". Cool. But OP isn't as is explaining why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramus.8143 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Jarvis.9540" said: > DPS meters, raid-mentality, and meta-obsession were all things that were against the original design philosophy of this game. As soon as ANET caved and started giving into that crowd, they immediately lost sight of their own vision for the game. This is the reason my friends and I no longer play it. If we wanted a data-driven, rotation-locked, mmorpg experience, there are plenty of other games to choose from. Can I have your stuff :), (Sorry, just couldn't resist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogy.2953 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 and nothing of value was lost seriously , no one is forcing you to raid or use meters or join meta parties, sounds like a buncha lazy players quit because they didn't want to get better at the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Nah, your original comment was just typical meme-crowd low effort way of discrediting OP. Remember, his personal experience is the only thing that matters for him. Just like yours is the only thing that matters for you. Just because you or others are happy with raiding, it has no consequences for OP. > > Most comments can be summed up as "yo, OP, don't be mad, because I'm having fun". Cool. But OP isn't as is explaining why. If you admit that it takes little effort to discredit OP, then we do agree after all. Subjectivity is absolutely the correct basis upon which to decide what game one should play and what game to leave. I wouldn't mind a post saying "I don't like X, goodbye". The moment we start arguing Game Design principles and design guidelines which exist outside of individual perception it is of advantage to assume at least some form of objectivity. But just out of curiosity, do you feel like you're not taken seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Miroe.2054" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Nah, your original comment was just typical meme-crowd low effort way of discrediting OP. Remember, his personal experience is the only thing that matters for him. Just like yours is the only thing that matters for you. Just because you or others are happy with raiding, it has no consequences for OP. > > > > Most comments can be summed up as "yo, OP, don't be mad, because I'm having fun". Cool. But OP isn't as is explaining why. > > If you admit that it takes little effort to discredit OP, then we do agree after all. Subjectivity is absolutely the correct basis upon which to decide what game one should play and what game to leave. I wouldn't mind a post saying "I don't like X, goodbye". The moment we start arguing Game Design principles and design guidelines which exist outside of individual perception it is of advantage to assume at least some form of objectivity. But you didn't discredit him. You just tried to mock him. I feel for OP as raid content was a reason why my 3 year old guild broke apart. And no amount of raid fanboys is going to change the fact of what happened to me. Or OP as these cases are similar > But just out of curiosity, do you feel like you're not taken seriously? I don't know, I don't care about what a random nobody from the net thinks about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenaos.8160 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 What game do you play now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miroe.2054 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > But you didn't discredit him. You just tried to mock him. I feel for OP as raid content was a reason why my 3 year old guild broke apart. And no amount of raid fanboys is going to change the fact of what happened to me. Or OP as these cases are similar > > > But just out of curiosity, do you feel like you're not taken seriously? > > I don't know, I don't care about what a random nobody from the net thinks about me. I did discredit him and the mockery lies in the two lines it took to do so. By putting it this simple I also made it quiet easy for anyone to argue my point, that adding content does not take other content away. But instead of arguing that point you claimed that I misunderstood the context and time in which raids were released. And now you are critizising my tone just to get around arguing the actual point. You probably wanted to defend the OP based on your shared experience instead of a shared cohesive argument and I think the OP's grateful for it. I'm sorry about your guild. Hearing that there were other reasons for their dissolution means there might even have been actual reasons. There are many guilds not being interested in raids at all and I assume you are in one of them. As am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder.3589 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"particlepinata.9865" said: > What a nonsense post. I dont raid, only play openworld maps and story. Do i ever meet any Elitist mentality? Does it influence my enjoyment when playing? No, because that is contained in Raids/PVP. I agree. And about raids taking up development time... people who raid also paid for that development time by buying the expansions just like non raiders also paid for the development time spent on non raid stuff by buying the expansions. How fairly the time was split vs income generated from each group? hard to tell imo and doesn't matter too much as long as everyone gets their money's worth of enjoyment from the game and ANet finds it worthwhile to keep making GW games/expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chyro.1462 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Don't like it? Don't play it. Don't like raids? Don't play raids. Don't like the game? Don't play the game. It's so simple. But it does seem weird that a group of 15 players supposedly left the game for things that didn't really affect them. Meta? Doesn't matter if you play with people that don't care about the meta. DPS Meters? Don't matter if you play with people that don't use them. Elitists? Don't matter if you don't play with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?Game difficulty is nothing to do with it.. its all about the people. Dungeon running has never really needed anything but greens, maybe exotics.. its just that with endgame content, speed runing and raids.. the players elitism jerks up a few notches and cry foul if you do not conform to their ways so DPS meters was their cry for "look at me awesomesauce status" Were dungeons and raids and metas being failed cos of no DPS meters.. no they were failed by player skills and lack of knowledge, which actually comes from running it and learning the mechanics .. therein lies the other issue. Endgame has never been that forgiving of newer or lesser experienced players and DPS meters / gear checks are used to weed those players out of their group lineups. It's all about the player mentality not the difficulty of the content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Miroe.2054" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > But you didn't discredit him. You just tried to mock him. I feel for OP as raid content was a reason why my 3 year old guild broke apart. And no amount of raid fanboys is going to change the fact of what happened to me. Or OP as these cases are similar > > > > > But just out of curiosity, do you feel like you're not taken seriously? > > > > I don't know, I don't care about what a random nobody from the net thinks about me. > I did discredit him and the mockery lies in the two lines it took to do so. By putting it this simple I also made it quiet easy for anyone to argue my point, that adding content does not take other content away. But instead of arguing that point you claimed that I misunderstood the context and time in which raids were released. And now you are critizising my tone just to get around arguing the actual point. You probably wanted to defend the OP based on your shared experience instead of a shared cohesive argument and I think the OP's grateful for it. > > I'm sorry about your guild. Hearing that there were other reasons for their dissolution means there might even have been actual reasons. There are many guilds not being interested in raids at all and I assume you are in one of them. As am I. Outside of my guild bank and a rotten corspe of my original guild which broke apart directly because of raiding I'm guildless. And you never discredited anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Chyro.1462" said: > Don't like it? Don't play it. > > Don't like raids? Don't play raids. > Don't like the game? Don't play the game. > > It's so simple. But it does seem weird that a group of 15 players supposedly left the game for things that didn't really affect them. > > Meta? Doesn't matter if you play with people that don't care about the meta. > DPS Meters? Don't matter if you play with people that don't use them. > Elitists? Don't matter if you don't play with them. I already explained why raids are affecting everyone currently. No matter if you play them or not. It's in this thread, feel free to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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