What can we change to make leveling to 80 non-boring and not make new players leave?

[DearlyMe.5320]

I've played MMOs before and my first impression of this game, very clearly, was you're not supposed to level solely off fighting things. It feels like a constant double exp weekend. From the very beginning, I was seeing things to collect, hearts, and events. During the summer, I leveled my ranger and revevant when I was still too new to know my way around any map but Celadon or Wayfarer. I didn't touch their stories until after I maxed them. Since I played my revenant for 108 hours so far and close-range isn't my strength, I'm betting your numbers aren't too far off. I remember her and the ranger felt like it took so long. Now I do the story up until 60 for that extra bit of exp. I'm on the third asura story in a row and have been skipping content I've already seen.

 

I was also one of those who "skipped the most progressive phase" of my chronomancer. If someone does that and decides the game is too hard, that's on them. I'd expect a "real gamer" to not expect, just because they're now maxed out, to not have a hard time on areas obviously going to be difficult. I'd expect them to know that a game that doesn't have turn-based combat is going to require practice before you tackle the big stuff, no matter what level you are. Just because you take a giant leap, doesn't mean you can't also take small steps. I found it difficult and overwhelming, too. I used my common sense: I went back to core Tyria, ignored elite specializations, and focused on mapping so I could get used to how mesmer worked. I didn't touch chronomancer for a few months later. I only last month started going after achievements and collections. They just sound incredibly impatient and not willing to learn. There's obviously a lot of content here and it's going to take a while to absorb. I wouldn't touch world bosses or big events like Verdant Brink at night until I knew what I was doing.

[Gop.8713]

I felt like leveling my first toons was way too fast, despite the fact that I was leveling five toons simultaneously precisely to extend the time it took me to get to 80. I feel like if someone is in a rush to get to the 'end' and incapable of enjoying the journey they're probably not going to enjoy the end content once they get there either. As I've bought more slots I haven't advanced those toons via tomes or crafting or anything like that either, bc I don't want to miss the opportunity to level those classes either. I do use tomes on my keyrunner each week, which I do through level 60 just to try the different branches of the story . . .

 

I too have had two friends try f2p and end up not buying the game, one bc he didn't like the combat system and the other who was really into it -- esp the story -- but just didn't feel like he had the time to play an mmo. And that's okay. We should expect the game to please everyone who tries it out, and any change made to increase the game's appeal to some players will reduce its appeal to others . . .

[Demented Sheep.1642]

This is probably the least repetitive MMORPG for leveling and it shouldn't take that long even without boosters. Not to mention the players who usually get annoyed by leveling are those that like PvP and not PVE (because the PVE experience isn't that different post max) which isn't a problem in this game. I really can't think of anything they could do beyond just skipping leveling outright and giving you a level 80 booster off the bat but that isn't a good idea for other reasons. By the time you run out of new maps to level toons in you will probably be skipping a fair chunk of it with tomes/scrolls.

 

Event chains are more interesting to do than hearts since he doesn't seem to like those though if he is bored already he probably doesn't like the core gameplay or he is misunderstanding how to play this game and is just grinding mobs.

 

If it really is just the leveling and if you want to help him get to level 80 you could send him crafting mats/money and he could quickly craft level.

[yiksing.9432]

Lol @ Gw2 being grindy, all it takes is 1 month of casual playing the first character and then logging in the next character u wanna level to complete dailies then switch back to main and play the game. You'll have all professions in 80 in no time. With the karma gears and reward track it's a breeze to get full exotics while completing collections for ascended stuff. This game is so easy in terms of getting gears, the only hard part is learning to play your character without getting completely obliterated by people who put the time into learning the game.

[Manpag.6421]

I actually think there's too much content focused on lvl 80. I'm an altaholic, so I do enjoy the levelling experience with new characters (though I of course use boosters to speed this along). I get that new content has to be challenging for the majority of players, but some new/fresh places to level up in the early game would be nice. For example, it's a shame that Istan is such a dangerous place now, but it makes sense, lore-wise. If Cantha is brought back, it would be nice if Shing Jea Island remained a low-level area, with the monastery as a place to train new characters. I get that this wouldn't fix OP's issue for new/F2P players, but I just think it's worth putting it out there that new pre-80 areas would be appreciated.

 

If any new players ask me about levelling, I usually just point out that almost no-one kills the yellow creatures, and so on the bonus XP from them alone you can level pretty fast if that's what you're set on – even for F2P.

[blambidy.3216]

U lost me once you said too Grindy.... in gw2 there are many ways to get experience. In typical mmos people choose to kill mobs and think that’s the best way. However it’s one of the worst ways to lvl up in gw2. Running through a waypoint gives plenty more then killing 1 monster a time.

Events are probably the fastest way however they are all timed. But 1 way is not how you lvl. It’s doing all of it. Dailies. Pvp give tomes. But get like 30 of them so the first 50 you can speed through.

 

Wvw. There’s plenty of videos showing you to find a Zerg and hug them the whole way and level up.

Crafting. Since your a beginner and if beginner don’t want to craft, use laurels for exp boosts. Get like 40 of them and you will fly through it.

 

 

You also need to give them priorities. Make them understand the concept of that. And the concept of how to lvl. Every 10 levels is a new story so that should be the goal. And take it a day at a time. However the first 30 mins you can get to lvl 10.

 

Tell them everything how to lvl and it won’t be boring.

 

Vista points.

New zones

Poi

Killing mobs.

Gathering items

Jumping puzzles

Pvp matches

Dungeons

Fractals.

Hps.

Achievements

Events.

Crafting.

Pairing up with a higher lvl and killing with them.

Guild missions.

 

There’s just so much it’s too much to tell a beginner. But let them know different ways to play

[blambidy.3216]

Another thing is. If they live close to u. Log on to your account and let them play something that’s crazy. Like the Lake Doric and farming leather. That stuff is crazy. Or take him to kill mordremoth in dragons stand.

 

U have to show him a goal and what he can do if he still plays. If they think there’s no value to the game they will think it’s worthless.

 

Then when he’s like when can I do that. Tell him you gotta lvl up and I will help you lvl up and we can do stuff like that. Or take him to fractal 25. Know what I mean?

 

But I agree with what one person said about leveling. Every mmo has the same slow start. But once you figure out things. Leveling is stupidly fast. But if the person doesn’t like to lvl then I don’t think rpgs is a type of game the person should be playing. Mmos take patients, and time.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Well, clearly the problem isn't the game, but your friend's attitude.

> GW2's 1-80 progression is extremely fast by most MMORPG's standards. And honestly, if they find this too grindy, then MMORPG's aren't their thing.

>

 

This.. much of the 1-80 experience has been diluted and made easy win over the last few years in favour of new player experience.. I remember the forums lighting up on how it had been so dulled down and trivialised around new players.. if they do this anymore they might as well do away with levelling and learning and progression all together.. no thanks.

[geochan.9184]

Grinding is a part of MMORPG, if they don't like it, then MMORPG is honestly not for them.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

If they aren't enjoying exploring, learning about the world, meeting and interacting with the characters (including collecting apples) then this is probably not the game for them. What do they think will suddenly change at level 80?

[Mewcifer.5198]

Leveling your first character always takes the longest. I remember leveling my first and it did take me quite some time to get her to 80. But at the same time I was still learning the game. I also thoroughly enjoyed doing the map completion to get experience and doing each part of the story every time I reached it. To this day I do map completion as an idle activity that I enjoy. But not everyone likes that, there will always be people who hate the wait, who want to jump into the action, who don't want the scenic route. There really isn't much to say to them. They can buy an 80 boost or they can suck it up and do some grinding.

 

Unfortunately gw2 doesn't really have a way to power level your friends (which would create a little speedier leveling without the sudden jump to max), kill experience isn't shared with the partly like other games. People have to do their own legwork for leveling in this game.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

We had New Player Experience patch once. I'm not sure if game can survive another patch of such brilliance again.

[Crossaber.8934]

I had 3 friends quited the game @ lv29, lv34 and lv35 respectively. The one quited at lv29 was not a free user, he bought the game just a couple months after launch like most of us did.

 

I think it did tell something....

 

ThIs game is not for everyone.

[Richard.8207]

I would love if they added tutorials teaching break bars, combo fields, etc with a bunch of leveling tomes rewarded for the achievements for doing the tutorial. And I’d be all for making them really hard and constantly telling players to level other ways if they are finding it too difficult.

 

Ideally, they’d make it a lot of fun and involve large groups at some points and give ample rewards to really show off what the game has to offer. Heck, give a bunch of dyes and skins and teach players how to use those systems that make the money to keep the game going. Have fun sections with temporary gliding and mounts to show what they’re missing from the expansions. Put all of the achievements in a new tab, and teach the players how to look up the achievements. Give a title for completing all of the tutorial achievements, and teach them how to set which title is displayed. Just show off anything you think some players will really like. Advertise to people, and have them thank you for it.

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

The original premise of the game at release was that players could solo all the way to level 80 if they wanted to, never formally grouping, but automatically "grouping" for events if they were in the locale. It was enjoyable; it was relaxing; it was fun... I did all the maps; did the story; did some WvWvW; and did some crafting with my five characters, and took all five to level 80. I then left.

I came back, deleting all five characters to start fresh, to find the game was all about hero points and mastery points; it was all about "playing the wiki" and "playing the clock"; it was all about tedium, the development team having clearly caved to the elitists and raider community. HoT is the perfect example of everything that is wrong with GW2 in its current reincarnation.

I recently attempted to do one of the great worm head events on one of my characters; there was a six-year old kid leading the group of some thirty or so players... with 230 mastery points!! I salute the young kid for trying, but that's what's wrong with GW2. A six-year old kid had 230 mastery points! How? By being part of the zergs his guild ran... no thought involved; no particular skill involved; just run with the zerg on the guild's schedule. You want to talk about boring? For a six-year old kid, that's probably exciting; for anyone who actually likes to think for himself or herself, that's extraordinarily boring.

How many players out there want to play a wiki? How many want to play a clock?

The GW2 development team lost their way. I don't think they will ever find their way back... and new players will leave because playing a wiki and playing a clock are not fun at all.

[Granrey.8920]

I have presented this concern numerous times.

 

When a new player shows up to try the game. He can't be the only person in the starter areas....... If you are running the story without seeing a single soul between levels 1 to 80. you are likely to quit.

 

Anet has made a lonely journey to reach the top. The game should be more about the journey than the destination itself.

 

I usually tell people. the best time to try an MMO is on the 2nd of third month of coming out as you will see people everywhere.

 

The way to solve this problem is by no addiing new maps but improving existing ones by adding more layers to it. Very similar to the maps on the first expansion in which you can take a helicopter to go above areas but better. you fly 10 meters above instead. close enough to see action below and be seen from below.

 

If flying, combat flying, mounted fighting were added you can add flying mobs and new players can see other players playing above them and something to look forward to.

 

The veteran players can quickly join events on the ground where the new players are. This is where GW2 can shine with the dynamic events.

 

Also, you should give rewards to veteran players for joining activities with new players. This creates connection and networking between the groups.

 

For instance in PWI. players have to visit dungeons every 10 levels. See these dungeons as graduation ceremonies in which they get rewards and learn to play the game by seeiing the veterans playing the game, they learn the dynamics of the instance, the skills to use, etc.

 

this would increase the density on every map and make the maps more populated.

 

However, people want instead new maps reducing players density on each map......and keeping no veterans on starter areas....bad logic.

 

 

[Sovari.7246]

Maybe give the players the option for temporary mounts that are parked in certain areas to make things a bit more exciting for new players

[Cerioth.7062]

Looks like the OP is misinformed.

 

Normal mobs give a TREMENDOUS amount of xp - even without boosters. The trick is to kill the _right_mobs. If you kill yellow mobs - or any mobs that havent been killed in several real life hours - you get bonus xp. On top of this you get active kill streak. It has been recorded on stream that a guy leveled using this method (and did it sloppily) to 80 in 14 hours. On a new account.

 

Of course a brand new player would have to be well-informed to do that, or at least try to do some research on leveling, but it is not a hard thing to achieve. Obviously you wouldnt have the daily log in rewards (which would give laurels for boosters and other stuff) and no guild hall buff but you can still use cheap food for small experience boost. You also get faster mob kills if you do it with few other people. You get a few boosters from leveling up. Crafting cooking grants you easy levels and is extremely cheap to level (2 gold).

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Richard.8207" said:

> I would love if they added tutorials teaching break bars, combo fields, etc with a bunch of leveling tomes rewarded for the achievements for doing the tutorial. And I’d be all for making them really hard and constantly telling players to level other ways if they are finding it too difficult.

>

> Ideally, they’d make it a lot of fun and involve large groups at some points and give ample rewards to really show off what the game has to offer. Heck, give a bunch of dyes and skins and teach players how to use those systems that make the money to keep the game going. Have fun sections with temporary gliding and mounts to show what they’re missing from the expansions. Put all of the achievements in a new tab, and teach the players how to look up the achievements. Give a title for completing all of the tutorial achievements, and teach them how to set which title is displayed. Just show off anything you think some players will really like. Advertise to people, and have them thank you for it.

 

I could get behind this to an extent, but there also has to be an effort by the individual to want to go out, try things and learn themselves.. just copycatting a metabattle build and expecting everything to be A1 awesomesauce fast levelling, fast success just cos someone else says so.. just doesn't happen all the time.

Somewhere in the process it comes down to the individual.. and if they don't enjoy the process or don't have the attitude and patience to learn, then sadly it's likely the wrong type of game for them.

[stone cold.8609]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> We had New Player Experience patch once. I'm not sure if game can survive another patch of such brilliance again.

 

Exactly this! The leveling experience changed dramatically after this and not for the better IMO. I think the rationale given at the time was that the game was too confusing for new players. So, ANet decided to strip out a lot of the starter content and lock more things behind levels. Unfortunately, I found that this really did make the earlier game feel overly simplified and linear, and tended to focus the player on the grind to get to the next level so that you could finally unlock the ability to view a vista or get your next utility skill open, or just play your character. I know that if I was a new player that didn't already know how the characters and game played with all the features unlocked, I wouldn't make it through the new leveling process either. It really is not enjoyable experience for me.

 

I still miss the old Metrica and the content that was removed in that patch.

 

As to what can be done, unless ANet would be willing to revert the New Player Experience patch changes I'm not certain there is anything at this point other than giving everyone boosts to about level 60 or so, so that a new player can see how good the game can be when you are finally able to see all the features and can fully play your character.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Granrey.8920" said:

> I have presented this concern numerous times.

>

> When a new player shows up to try the game. He can't be the only person in the starter areas....... If you are running the story without seeing a single soul between levels 1 to 80. you are likely to quit.

>

> Anet has made a lonely journey to reach the top. The game should be more about the journey than the destination itself.

>

> I usually tell people. the best time to try an MMO is on the 2nd of third month of coming out as you will see people everywhere.

>

> The way to solve this problem is by no addiing new maps but improving existing ones by adding more layers to it. Very similar to the maps on the first expansion in which you can take a helicopter to go above areas but better. you fly 10 meters above instead. close enough to see action below and be seen from below.

>

> If flying, combat flying, mounted fighting were added you can add flying mobs and new players can see other players playing above them and something to look forward to.

>

> The veteran players can quickly join events on the ground where the new players are. This is where GW2 can shine with the dynamic events.

>

> Also, you should give rewards to veteran players for joining activities with new players. This creates connection and networking between the groups.

>

> For instance in PWI. players have to visit dungeons every 10 levels. See these dungeons as graduation ceremonies in which they get rewards and learn to play the game by seeiing the veterans playing the game, they learn the dynamics of the instance, the skills to use, etc.

>

> this would increase the density on every map and make the maps more populated.

>

> However, people want instead new maps reducing players density on each map......and keeping no veterans on starter areas....bad logic.

>

>

Layering maps like you say won't fix your perceived issue of empty starter maps... they will still not be on the same layer of the map to make new players feel included.

One of the issues with guilds wars2 after Year 1+ was that starter zones were crammed with players running champ trains and new players not getting close to it before it died and the train moved on.. then dailies came in and made maps feel busier but still new players tended to be left cold as events came and went in a blink before they could get there.. still happens today.

 

Fact is as an MMO gets older and less new players come into the game, starter maps do begin to suffer, but game expansions, new maps, new classes etc breath new life in to it and helps sustain/retain what it already has in terms of players, whilst also acting as a carrot.

 

However this is not the issue that the OP was explaining, this is about new players quitting due to perceived grindyness of the 1-80 experience.. most maps after lvl 30 ish are normally quite active, maybe not all day but it has active spells.. lower levels will always see peaks and troughs as it gets older.

 

[Donari.5237]

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

> Another thing is. If they live close to u. Log on to your account and let them play something that’s crazy. Like the Lake Doric and farming leather. That stuff is crazy. Or take him to kill mordremoth in dragons stand.

 

Interesting point. And while it's not quite the same as playing it themselves, even if the friend isn't close by there's an easy way to "stream" the experience: Discord PM chat includes screen sharing now. So you can voice with him/her while s/he views your action directly (and hopefully doesn't get motion sick from you being the controller of the camera movement).

 

 

[Zedek.8932]

The levelling was one of ther reasons why I came here.

Character progression in a "From Zero to Hero" fassion is something I missed in modern games.

Apparently the target group, phone kids and tablet teenagers, are too busy with...facebook and what'sApp to actually play a game, so they should be protected from such important life lessons such as "No pain, no gain" and similar confusing things.

 

Excelsior.

[witcher.3197]

I tried to get many people into GW2 in the first few years but none of them made it past lvl 30. They loved it in the first hour, then quickly got bored out of their minds and eventually gave up.

 

Why? Because it's ridiculously boring. You're never in danger unless you pull the map. Mobs barely use anything telegraphed big hits either that would warrant the use of dodge, the pillar of GW2 combat.

 

Leveling's just uninteresting and repetitive. Unless you get sucked into the world and plays for the joy of exploration (which some do) you won't get hooked even if you'd enjoy the game by the time you're 80.

 

Tl;DR Combat should get harder and more rewarding as you gain levels, instead of braindead boring 79 levels. You learn fuck all about combat by the time you're 80, barely more than by just boosting.

 

[Ameepa.6793]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> We had New Player Experience patch once. I'm not sure if game can survive another patch of such brilliance again.

 

Indeed, leveling was much more enjoyable before that. These days I would never do it without boosters :P