PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

[Exalted Quality.8534]

The Rev changes are really bad. Hammer Revs are in a bad spot now because of the nerf to impossible odds. CoR is the only reason to bring a hammer on a Rev. If you gut it as proposed, you will effectively kill the viability of the most restrictive class in the game. Revs can't change utility skills and have the shortbow which isn't even recommended for any PvE scenarios.

 

Additionally, the logic that simply adding seconds to bleeding or reducing energy costs of high cost skills would make Kalla viable in PvP or WvW is ludicrous. In anything more than a 1v1, your spirits get mowed down or CC'd immediately. Please consider giving spirits additional health based on the casters Vitality stat and, for the love of all things sacred, make spirits non-cc'able. Counter play is either kill the spirit or don't stand in it.

 

If you aren't going to make any meaningful changes to Revs, just leave them alone and make them fun to play in PvE. The energy reductions and coefficient buffs mean nothing in PvP/WvW because Revs are still trash-tier, but would make them more fun to play in PvE...

[Inoki.6048]

One thing which they should have fixed years ago is targeting, so that when a commander places a normal target (red cross) above someone the entire squad sees it and can just assist. that could be tremendously useful, but no >.< nothing they do ever makes any sense, it's just made to produce more frustration on the user's end.

[Cryformercy.3056]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"XxsdgxX.8109" said:

> > Even though you didn't seem to address some other big problems like Mesmer's burst I really hope that you **ANET** don't get intimidated by the people here clearly biased for their class not wanting their respective nerfs.

> > For the most part these are excellent nerfs all across the board, almost every spec needed them.

> >

> > Good step in the right direction, please do not pander to so many of these biased complaints.

>

> This times a million holy kittenfest.

>

> Right now there are only two classes that do not have viable builds for sPvP: Elementalist and Revenant. These are the only two classes that realistically need buffs.

>

> People who are complaining about nerfs to builds that are clearly and blatantly overtuned need to chill. Like people complaining about the Druid CA nerf. Druid has been 200% busted for how many seasons now? And they are whining about a 5 second nerf? And then mesmers complaining about elusive mind. Because it's not like EM wasn't one of the most broken grandmaster traits in PoF or anything.

>

>

 

I can agree with you. Druids were broken all the time, just a bit overshadowed by scourge. I'm really happy with nerf. However eles is in bad spot despite of people saying that fresh ele is op. Tempest is mostly overshadowed by firebrand and weaver sword is.....hm just be honest - useless because all others professions do it better. I have hope that with a nerf of others it could see some daylight, because since last patch it was nicely packed safely to the shelf

[Lociaz.4027]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

 

> ### Thief

>

> #### Skills

>

> - Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.8, 0.85, 1.1 to 0.6, 0.65, 1.1 (-15% overall) in PvP and WvW

> - Heartseeker: Increased the power coefficients at all thresholds by 20% in PvP and WvW. The new values are as follows.

> - Above 50%: 1.0 to 1.2

> - Below 50%: 1.5 to 1.8

> - Below 25%: 2.0 to 2.4

> - Sword Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.8, 0.8, 1.3 to 0.6, 0.6, 1.3 (-14% overall) in PvP and WvW

> - Roll for Initiative: Increased the cooldown from 35 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Shadow Shot: Increased the initiative cost from 4 to 5 in PvP and WvW. Increased Increased the power coefficient from 1.325 to 1.8 (+36%) in PvP and WvW

> - Infiltrator's Strike: Increased the power coefficient from .75 to .9 (+20%) in PvP and WvW

> - Cloak and Dagger: Reduced the initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP and WvW

> - Signet of Shadows: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Assassin's Signet: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Smoke Screen: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Dagger Storm: Reduced the cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Hide in Shadows: Increased the base healing from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW

> - Skelk Venom: Increased the venom heal per hit from 965 to 1206 (+25%) in PvP and WvW

>

> #### Traits

>

> - **Pulmonary Impact: Reduced the power coefficient from 2.8 to 2.0 (-29%) in PvP and WvW**

> - **Upper Hand: Increased the cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW**

> - **Panic Strike: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. The WvW version of this trait will now use the PvP immobilize duration of 1.5 seconds**

> - **Instant Reflexes: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only**

> - **Pain response: Increased the cooldown from 16 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only**

> - **Hard to Catch: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only**

 

 

I'm okay with the changes, but there is some things i dont like and I'm a bit confused.

The **Upper Hand** trait, you say that its gonna be from 3 sec to ---> 5sec cooldown.

but when i chek the trait in game its 2sec! and its perfect how it is. Dont need to nerf it!

And the other traits are way to much increase in their cooldowns.

[https://imgur.com/uSQIwNz](https://imgur.com/uSQIwNz "https://imgur.com/uSQIwNz")

And the **Instant Reflexes** are bugged i have sent reports and still few times peoples are hitting me while i have the trait activated...

 

[Atmaweapon.7345]

The Minesweeper nerf is a bit excessive considering that it outright replaces Evasive Powder Keg which has a 1.20 power scaling. Compare Minesweeper to Bounding dodger, Bounding adds a 1.33 power scaling attack + 10% increased physical damage. If you adjust the nerf to 20%, the total output of the mines would be 2.4 or 1.2 higher than Evasive Powder keg which is still lower than the value of Bounding dodger, but not turning it into a dead trait.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> 1– Mesmer/Mirage has way too much sustain, mobility, disengage and damage. I would reduce sword ambush Mirage Thrust to 450 range (same as Holo Leap.) Jaunt and/or Elusive Mind should have its Condi clear removed — there is far too much Condi clear given to this class as a free perk tacked onto already great skills.

>

 

The stun break part of EM is way more cancerous than 1 condi cleansed on dodge. Mesmer already has a lot of stunbreaks as a class, but at least when they are on skills it has to "sacrifice" a skill slot to use them. EM is a free stunbreak with the lowest CD of any skill or trait in the game, on top of also cleansing a condition, and then giving us the ability to use an ambush attack back at you. The stunbreak is the only overperforming part of EM

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> • Infiltrator's Strike: Increased the power coefficient from .75 to .9 (+20%) in PvP and WvW

> They already are spamming Infiltrator’s strike in pvp and wvw I think to counter the increase you should Increase the initiative cost. That they are not rewarded to spam even more.

>

 

I understand what you mean, but they're nerfing [upper Hand](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upper_Hand_(PvP) "Upper Hand") by 66% and increasing the CD of [Roll for Initiative](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative "Roll for Initiative"). If there are even more nerfs to S/D's access to initiative then the build is dead. I've fought S/D a lot and found them very annoying, but with the changes that are being made, you will only have to sustain for a short period of time until they're out of initiative. Currently they have too much initiative sustain and that's what's being nerfed already.

[kappa.2036]

I still remember when I was forced to change class for wvw raid after the CA cooldown increase from 10 to 15 seconds. Now I will not have to play druid even in pvp. An entire specialization based on healing, but with healing skills locked behind 20 seconds cooldown?

I want to say only this: the whole list of nerfs you have done to the ranger is useless. It's useless because only the CA cooldown increase is enough to completely kill the support role of the ranger in any game mode.

[MachineManXX.9746]

Commenting on Scourge -

 

Most of the nerfs are applied to skill cool downs. As has been mentioned above, this will greatly affect the "feel" of the profession. Make it so much slower. Less reactive. Less engaging. Life force will not even be a consideration because we will be full of life force, waiting on cool downs. The entire class mechanic will just become so clunky.

 

Could you please look at reducing the effects of the skills rather than the cool downs. The end result would be the same without totally changing the flow of the profession. It would also be a better way to balance individual components of the skills if it was desirable to do so.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"protox.6085" said:

> > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > @"protox.6085" said:

> > > Defy Pain: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

> > > Last Stand: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

> > >

> > > This will kill core warriors this is the only thing that keeps us alive now adays.

> >

> > they should not be able to live forever like a bunker while also being able to deal massive, consistent damages to opponents. This change is needed.

>

> then you havent played gw in a while... defy pain and endure pain allready got nerfed half the time balance stands got nerfed as well a core warrior can't bunker as it used too. Last stands is the last remaining stability option for core warrior. Balanced stance and dolyak signet arent worth taking. And with the amount of knock downs/stuns in the game right now you cant keep dodging every single skill forever. Also warrior as a melee class should be able to tank a little bit of the range pressure else it will be useless.

 

you totally missed my quote. reread please.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > > @"liurencija.2684" said:

> > > > > Okay so... After playing holosmith in wvw for quite a while now, I came to love this class very very much. Seeing the changes made to engi makes me wonder if anet even cares for this class at all and if they make ''balances'' to it based only on other people's complaints.

> > > > > Holosmith is already an unviable class for zergs in the current wvw condi meta, having low damage, extremely low survivability and self sustain compared to other classes like scourge or spellbreaker. Why nerf it even more? Seriously, ruining the only skill that gives stability, not giving any proper condi cleanses and even reducing the main source of damage is not simply nerfing an already disadvantaged class, it's putting a final nail to its coffin.

> > > > > Since I don't play pvp often, I really can't say much about the effect these changes have there, but if holosmiths are indeed so OP in pvp as many say, why include these nerfs in wvw?

> > > >

> > > > Not sure what kind of holosmith you are playing that has low damage, and extremely low survivability and self sustain, but any holosmith I have run into has a brontosaurus poop ton of damage and survivability, thanks to the heat mechanic/perma stab on corona burst. These changes are much needed. I myself play an Engineer, and if another Engineer agrees that corona burst's perma stab is a problem, then it's gotta be a problem. Holosmith is supposed to be a damage dealing spec, both bursting and sustained damage. Giving it perma stab would then put it in a position to fulfill both of these roles with the utmost expertise, with no counterplay or drawbacks. Just CC them you say? How? They have perma stab, remember? Causing the stab to be applied on hit is good, and if they did keep stab off hit, then reducing its uptime is essential, else, once a holosmith gets going (corona burst before jumping in), there is no stopping him before he bursts your poor body from full to pieces within 3 seconds.

> > >

> > > Holosmith does not have permanent stability on Corona Burst with Eclipse (the only viable trait in that line for most encounters since holosmith has no other sources of stability). Eclipse offers 4 seconds of 2 stacks of stability on the use of a skill with a 6 second cooldown that generates a lot of heat on use. 36% boon duration (Alchemy traited plus Durability runes) will push the duration of the stability up to 5 1/2 seconds, but the claim "permanent stability" implies holosmith can stay in the forge and camp Corona Burst on cooldown. The heat mechanic prevents this.

> > >

> > > If holosmith is thought to have too much stability because of Eclipse, then lowering the base duration or the number of stacks makes more sense over adding the stipulation of hitting a target. No support trait/skill should rely on hitting a target for its function to be achieved (looking at you Aqua Siphon). If this change to the trait goes live, then holosmith will have zero access to stability if Corona Burst is dodged or the enemy simply moves out of range, and the flashy tells for everything in the photon forge makes such a dodge/disengage almost a guarantee if this change is implemented.

> >

> > you are also forgetting that, this stability pulses 2 times, one at the beginning, and one at the end. Also, dodging vents exhaust traited, so it's basically perma stab. On top of vigor uptime per swiftness gained and elixir that restores endurance, you can easily have perma stab by just spamming corona burst off cd, all while staying in forge a great deal of time. heat also does not take too long to dissipate when you only have 100 heat, so you have a lot of forge uptime, and when you don't, you're out of range from cc in the current meta build.

>

> Changing Eclipse to give both stacks of stability on the initial pulse (thus keeping the base duration to a true 4 secs) or lowering the base duration outright would be a more sensible change than adding an on hit stipulation to the stability. Holosmiths need the stability to have any hope of engaging with the backline of a zerg (where holosmith can shine in zerg vs zerg play), and requiring a target for the stability will kill any hope a holosmith has for engaging the enemy's backline without being cced to oblivion before they get close enough to do a Corona Burst that'll actually hit something.

>

> Putting an on hit stipulation on something with a radius of 300 will make holosmiths easy kills for all those things that enjoy 900 and 1200 range ccs.

 

you'll still be able to get in though. There are other ways to engage than to corona burst before engaging. It's possible, with a build i have been testing and got to plat 2 with, i think it's proven.

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"Druch.8573" said:

> Did you really think all the way through about these changes?

>

> If you add more cd to Desert Shroud which it might be ok (I'm a main necro WvW player), you will consequently nerf all the following traits and some of them will be completely useless:

>

> - Awaken the pain

> - Spiteful Spirit

> - Plague Sending

> - Furious Demise

> - Weakening Shroud

> - Armored Shroud

> - Shrouded Removal

> - Beyond the veil: It was already super useless when playing scourge and is even more crap

> - Unholy Sanctuary: It's not going to be nerfed but it's a trait that it hsould has been reworked since its half useful when using scourge.

> - Life from Death: It was already super useless when playing scourge and is even more crap

> - Unholy Martyr

> - Speed of shadows

> - Foot in the Grave

> - Death Percetion

>

> If you go ahead with these changes you will have to rework all the above traits and make them interesting and useful for all the Specs. (Necro core / Reaper / Scourge )

>

> Furthermore, if you really want to split all the skills/traits between PVP/WvW and PVE you should also go through all which are not very useful in PvP/WvW and players don't play them such as Lingering Curse.

>

> Thank you Anet for taking in consideration our opinions in relation with this topic.

 

You're right. The CD should be left alone, maybe up the shroud cost to 6000 or 7000. It's a high-impact skill so necros should think carefully about when to use it, but it should be available if they want to use it. Scourge has better LF generation than core necro so I don't see a problem with significantly upping the LF cost.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @"Hiraldo.7954" said:

> Resistance -> Immob revert is the most important change that needs to be made at the moment, please consider addressing it in this patch!

 

We're going to discuss it. No guarantees in either way though.

[Forsaken.7015]

Necro trait - Chill of death casts passive lesser spinal shivers that can hit for over 5k. If the goal is to nerf passives this skill on a 20 second cooldown should be looked at. 5k unavoidable damage and it removes 3 boons on a 20 second cd that procs passively zero skill involved.

 

If this has already been talked about forgive.

[Arkantos.7460]

> - Passive skills make the game less skillful.

> - The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)

 

100 points for Griffindor, good job Anet, the first real impacting changes that will perform better active gameplay and closing the passivs way

 

> ### Revenant

> #### Skills

> - Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the power coefficient of the second impact from 1.75 to 1.5 (-14%) in WvW only. Reduced the power coefficient of the third impact from 2.25 to 1.75 (-22%) in WvW only.

 

I dont play wvw so OK

> - Razorclaw's Rage: Increased the Bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Icerazor's Ire: Increased the Power coefficient from 3.7 to 4.6 (+24%) in PvP and WvW

kalla is not viable cause it needs 2sec to get the skill dps after activation, casttime>summon appear>summon do something .... you know its to slow

 

> - Soothing Stone: Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 3 to 5 in PvP and WvW

> - Vengeful Hammers: Reduced the upkeep cost from 7 to 6 in PvP and WvW

> - Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

condi cleanse is nice and long waited, reduced upkeep costs are OK, FE could be to much cd because it hast already casttime and is projectile and only be used 1 after legendswap

 

> - Embrace the Darkness: Increased the attribute bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP and WvW

> - Banish Enchantments: Increased the number of boons removed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> - Pain Absorption: Reduced the energy cost from 35 to 30 in PvP and WvW

theese are changes on mallyx are good start but would prefer some more influence with kalla , you know Icerazor ...something with chill for combination and get some real CONDI revenants... could be nice

>

> #### Traits

>

> - Eye for an Eye: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

> - Versed in Stone: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

> - Soothing Bastion: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only

 

NEVER used theese because dont like passivs and soothing bastion already roots you > thats suicide in tpvp

 

so Overall fine , when can we get this^^ ? im very amused to see balance for other classes as wel, I WANT PLAY IT!!!!!!!!!

[NaramSin.2693]

IMO too many changes, are You sure the final result will be a more balanced game? I'm afraid the answer is: no..

Doing changes in all character types will change again the context for all and there is no way to understand if other changes are right or not, in every model some variable must be fixed as you change "few" others checking the result, in this way you do every time a mess of the current interactions

[Diru.4531]

Removing resistance is painful enough. If you have to convert it then just make it a random condition. Constant immobs are no fun at all.

 

As for wvw suggestions, I would aim for more class/build variety for standard group roles: Frontline sustain, midline balanced, backline dps.

[omgdracula.6345]

Do you plan to rework profession specific weapon sets that are just overall bad on a fundamental level? If not, then you should re think pushing any of these balance changes until you have discussed issues with each profession community as to why certain sets aren't played.

[saerni.2584]

Just a quick request to normalize Shadowstrike.

 

P/D — 3 applies 2 stacks of torment in PvE/WvW and 4 stacks in PvP.

 

While the damage is higher in WvW the fact that this requires melee range and can’t be spammed easily supports increasing the WvW number to match what it is in PvP. Especially because sigils that increase torment duration are PvP only (compare two stacks in WvW with 4 stacks in PvP with extended duration)

 

It was originally increased in PvP because, from personal experience, it wasn’t doing much damage. Now, it can do appreciable but not OP damage in PvP but not in WvW because it was never adopted by the PvE balance patches for whatever reason.

 

I’d also like to ask that someone look at whether Deadeye traits involving reaching maximum malice can be reconfigured in light of the permanent max malice that is possible. Maybe a change to “when at maximum malice gain boons/healing every 20 seconds, internal cooldown resets if mark expires.”

[LughLongArm.5460]

My Initial thoughts on ranger(druid) changes:

 

1 Most of the changes they suggested are not spllited and apply for both PVP and WVW(I see you already commented on this one).

 

2)I think your approach on nerfing druids is false - You created a pure support specialization and took away all its supportive capabilities. You created a transformation mechanic based on resource management(AF) , and locked it behind a huge CD(20 sec). You left Druidic Clarity/Celestial Shadow(the real issue with druids) untouched. That's a strange design approach. It's not even a balance thing it's a specialization identity issue. If that's what you are going with, at-least re-work druid passives and buff unused druid traits and glyphs.

 

3)Gutting all the ranger's might stacking options(giving it all to axe) is too extreme, where are the buffs to trailts like hunter's gaze/potent ally etc...

 

4)Healing spring is a much better 'bear stance' now, you should buff the healing when heal consumed on 'bear stance' and reduce it's CD.

 

5)buff on dagger is not close for being enough, the dagger ATM got no tools for pvp fighting(evade/cc/etc...).

 

I can go on on, I love the concept of nerfing some strong things while buffing weak things but giving a single passive stun break(Shared Anguis) a 90 sec CD is not the way to do it.

 

You need to re-work passive traits like that to something more engaging and interesting, not make it non-existing.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" - ive been asking for years and have others...can we fix Shadow Trap?

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Shazmataz.1423" said:

> > A general comment.

> > Please, when making any changes keep diversity of builds in mind. It is boring to have to be a "certain" build to be competitive. Please make it so that all builds can be competitive in their way. Diversity is the spice of life.

>

> I think the opposite.

>

> We know that SPvP is unbalanced because many reasons:

>

> > * Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).

> > * Different Builds

> > * Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.

> > * All game modes share all skills

>

> Given the fact that they are now starting to separate skills from the 3 modalities, here what would be the new situation

>

>

> > * Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).

> > * Different Builds

> > * Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.

> > * All game modes share all skills

>

> Now they want to point at build diversity, but instead i suggest both developers and players to stop for a moment and think about what is mostly needed.

>

> **Diversity or Balance?**

>

> Imho, since it's clear that a mmo can't provvide diversity and balance altogether ( not GW2 fault, but the RPG elements which are part of every single mmo ), i would prefer to have 9 different classes with a standard build, weapon set, neck, sigils and that SPvP team continue to work on them in order to incrase the balance the more the time passes.

>

> Diversity brings more problems than advantages, expecially in what should have been a competitive mode.

>

> I will definitely prefer to play with the same 9 classes and get more skilled with all of em than have to change the build because of the meta reasons ( yesterday staff was op, now sword and scepter. Tomorrow focus and warhorn ).

>

> Players should ask themselves what they mostly need, and if they would be ok to sacrifice something in order to achieve that goal or not.

> Currently you can play the build you want, and try everything, but it's not fun because:

>

> * You are not competitive.

> * You are matched with players which are "experimenting something new".

> * You could find them in the opposite team, having an easy match instead of a competitive one

> * Players won't be able to learn a class because they will always change something, and they indeed will become less skilled i compared to the "chose your class only" scenario.

> * There will be way less balance if compared to a base character selection. Always.

>

> Splitting the skills between SPvP and the rest is a good step.

> Now please realize that in order to achieve balance you need to sacrifice something else ( and that in a competitive gameplay balance is supposed to be the first goal, before diversity and whatever else ).

 

So, it's all about being competitive? I don't do pvp much anymore but I can agree with some of your points but why should players be shoe horned into playing certain builds to be competitive? There should be a variety of builds that are equally competitive otherwise it's just boring.

 

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"Shazmataz.1423" said:

> > > > > A general comment.

> > > > > Please, when making any changes keep diversity of builds in mind. It is boring to have to be a "certain" build to be competitive. Please make it so that all builds can be competitive in their way. Diversity is the spice of life.

> > > >

> > > > I think the opposite.

> > > >

> > > > We know that SPvP is unbalanced because many reasons:

> > > >

> > > > > * Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).

> > > > > * Different Builds

> > > > > * Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.

> > > > > * All game modes share all skills

> > > >

> > > > Given the fact that they are now starting to separate skills from the 3 modalities, here what would be the new situation

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > * Different Necks ( sigils more ore less are fine, even though the "on swap" sigils are random as passive skills, and need to go ).

> > > > > * Different Builds

> > > > > * Low resources for SPvP ( and WvW ofc ) TEAM.

> > > > > * All game modes share all skills

> > > >

> > > > Now they want to point at build diversity, but instead i suggest both developers and players to stop for a moment and think about what is mostly needed.

> > > >

> > > > **Diversity or Balance?**

> > > >

> > > > Imho, since it's clear that a mmo can't provvide diversity and balance altogether ( not GW2 fault, but the RPG elements which are part of every single mmo ), i would prefer to have 9 different classes with a standard build, weapon set, neck, sigils and that SPvP team continue to work on them in order to incrase the balance the more the time passes.

> > > >

> > > > Diversity brings more problems than advantages, expecially in what should have been a competitive mode.

> > > >

> > > > I will definitely prefer to play with the same 9 classes and get more skilled with all of em than have to change the build because of the meta reasons ( yesterday staff was op, now sword and scepter. Tomorrow focus and warhorn ).

> > > >

> > > > Players should ask themselves what they mostly need, and if they would be ok to sacrifice something in order to achieve that goal or not.

> > > > Currently you can play the build you want, and try everything, but it's not fun because:

> > > >

> > > > * You are not competitive.

> > > > * You are matched with players which are "experimenting something new".

> > > > * You could find them in the opposite team, having an easy match instead of a competitive one

> > > > * Players won't be able to learn a class because they will always change something, and they indeed will become less skilled i compared to the "chose your class only" scenario.

> > > > * There will be way less balance if compared to a base character selection. Always.

> > > >

> > > > Splitting the skills between SPvP and the rest is a good step.

> > > > Now please realize that in order to achieve balance you need to sacrifice something else ( and that in a competitive gameplay balance is supposed to be the first goal, before diversity and whatever else ).

> > >

> > > Proper balance can bring proper diversity.

> >

> > But without diversity you will have way more balance.

> > There's no confront between static build balance and free builds balance.

>

> This is not true, because predictability can destroy said balance. Diversity destroys predictability, which will then not negate proper balance.

 

I think that what Shirlias wants is predictability....which makes pvp easier.

[Lexan.5930]

> ### Mesmer

>

> #### Skills

>

> - Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> #### Traits

>

> - Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> - Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage buff per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW

> - Phantasmal Force: Reduced the Might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW

> - Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

 

this is not enough. Mesmers do more burst damage and more condi sustain than necro's can do even currently in pvp, and they are only getting a few changes. barley any changes to the 30k in under 2 seconds that a shatter mesmer can do or the 10k burning that staff mirage can put out. Not to mention that they still have invulnerability which is capable of reducing an infinite amount of damage to 0.

 

> ### Necromancer

>

> #### Skills

>

> - Garish Pillar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Desert Shroud: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Ghastly Breach: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Trail of Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Life Siphon: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Dark Pact: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Signet of Vampirism: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal from 3960 to 4950 (+25%) in PvP and WvW

> - Well of Blood: Increased the base heal from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the heal per pulse from 280 to 490 (+75%) in PvP and WvW

> - Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Blood is Power: Adjusted the Might granted from 10 stacks for 10 seconds to 15 stacks for 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> - Well of Suffering: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Increased the amount of Vulnerability applied per pulse from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only.

> - Signet of the Locust: Increased the power coefficient from 0.65 to 1.0 (+54%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal per hit from 970 to 1455 (+50%) in PvP and WvW

>

> #### Traits

>

> - Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

> - Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP only

 

this is kicking the legs out from an already crippled player. The .5 second delay for all cast times already hinders pve, but in pvp it was just plain annoying. Now cooldowns for our "defensive" skills on scourge are getting ripped apart and skills that are mostly useless are getting tiny little buffs.

Signet of undeath is useless because of a 3 second cast time thats all but impossible to get off with any sort of teleportation class on you (thief, mesmer, rev, guard)

plague signet already gets nullified but blocks or blinds or dodges.

you can't cast life siphon unless your facing the target which makes it really bad as any kind of melee combat skill

trail of anguish is the only reliable place we can get stab, well of power has a 1/4 cast time that can be interrupted, and only gives stab on cast

 

necro mancer skills already take a long time to cast and require lots of precast to be any kind of combo worthy of bust combo potential that mesmers thieves or elle's get. There's no way to get away if you miss a combo, no insta telleports, 1 leap only on a specialization, no access to super speed, no blocks, no invulnerability and don't bring up shroud because it always has a limited amount of damage it can absorb where as chain blocks and especially invulnerability can prevent an infinite amount of damage.

 

TLDR : necro's are getting burn to a crisp unessisarily, where as other clases (especially mesmer) are stil, if not more, opressive and bursty than a necro, but get almost no changes.

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We went back and forth on this a bit. In the end we decided to err on the side of consistency for anything that cleansed conditions, fired on getting CC'd, or anything defensive that fired at low health. If we missed something, let us know and we'll look at it.

 

Mind shedding light on why Desperate Decoy is left out even though you stated consistency? Is it just because of

>We may not be done with mesmer yet. We're going to be revising our list over the next week.

 

Because if anything, stealth is probably the 2nd best defense after invuls/evades because it removes targeting (thereby preventing all skills that require a target from damaging the user) and gives the user the many options including disengaging completely, re-engaging, or sneaking a decap then disengage that even invuls/evades dont have access to as the user's opponent can track the user's movement and respond accordingly. Traits that block, proc on CC, cleanse condi, prevent particular source of damage (eg. endure pain) don't even come close to stealth as those all have counters (unblockable attacks, bait out the cc/cleanse using some trivial low cd skills like daze/trash condis, use different source of damage).

 

Edit: I did forget about skills that Reveal, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree on how unreliable and useless most of these skills are as there are very few of these, don't do much other than reveal, thereby useless in normal situations, and some of them even have long cd + cast time that the stealthed user can just apply another stealth afterwards or dodge them.

 

I've also noticed that Thief's Last Refuge is missed. Is it actually a conscious effort to ignore Stealth based passives?