PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

[Wichidi.9281]

thx for the updated list ben

 

also, R.I.P spellbreaker septembre 22, 2018 - next balance patch , was nice having ya

 

considering how much war, holo, thief, druid are getting nerfed, you could probably nerf mirage even more tbh.

 

thx for ur work tho. i love how u guys are interacting w the community at this point

[meri.9187]

So it seems like your base strategy remains the same- instead of buffing rev/ele the nerfs to other classes continue. I really appreciate this strategy being utilized for once, and I think it's a great direction to take.

 

If you have time to answer at any point, I am still confused about a few things involving revenant.

 

1. Expose Defenses. I could get into why this change from Mutilate Defenses to Expose Defenses happened, and why I think it makes no sense- but Expose Defenses still does not refresh on use of the Facet of Chaos itself, only Chaotic Release. Since Jade Winds and Chaotic Release are rarely used in a fight, revs are getting little to nothing out of this trait that used to serve as a big aid to sustain and damage in PvP and WvW- being that having vuln on an enemy affects Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning. I don't know if it has been brought to your attention that this trait does not refresh on use of Facet of Chaos, while all other "on elite" effects do work. If this trait stays the way it is, I think this is a reasonable functionality to look at and hopefully fix as it is near useless in a prolonged fight when compared to its previous counterpart.

 

2. I think I speak for the vast majority of the rev community when I say we need just a little more condition cleanse. One change that has been discussed at length by almost every rev main is that Cleansing Channel should cleanse 2 conditions on legend swap instead of 1. That said, the class was designed to be weak to conditions, and perhaps it is not in the design plan.

 

3. One thing that I personally am confused with is the change to Impossible Odds' function and how it affects revenant in WvW/PvP. The extra hit does not add nearly as much to our damage/burst/cleave capabilities as did the on demand quickness (even one second of quickness from IO was a huge part of our capability to actually land damage). It seems to me that this change was geared primarily toward PvE raids, where one would expect to have permanent quickness from chronomancers. It would be really nice to me to have some clarification on why this change was made.

 

Thanks for your time Ben.

[MakubeC.3026]

Really like these changes. A lot of builds might come back into play like Tempest and Reaper. Very excited to see what happens.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Hey folks!

>

> I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

>

> A few notes:

> We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

>

> Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

>

> **Revenant**

> Skills

> • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> **Thief**

> Skills

> • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW

> • We decided not to do the following buffs;

> • Heartseeker

> • Shadow Shot

> • Infiltrator’s Strike

> Traits

> • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> **Ranger**

> Skills

> • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only

> • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only

> • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only

> Traits

> • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only

> • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only

> • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only

> • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

>

> **Engineer**

> Skills

> • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only

> • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only

> • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only

> • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

>

> **Elementalist**

> Skills

> • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW

> • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW

> Traits

> • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

>

> **Mesmer**

> Skills

> • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW

> • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW

> • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW

> Traits

> • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW

> • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

 

Thanks for the update, really good changes!

 

I'm glad you went back on the thief buffs too, if there's one class that doesn't need a buff at all it's thief.

 

There's only 2 things I'd like for you to consider, and it's regarding **revenant**.

 

Equilibrium was a key trait of power rev in PvP and one that took planning and proper energy management. It was fairly harmless on its own, but made gameplay more interesting because proper use of this made quite the difference between good and bad revenant. This trait was removed because "it was hard to use" - things shouldn't be removed just because they need experience.

 

Now, Equilibrium would be OP combined with the new Sword #4 burst, which ties into my second problem. With the removal of Equ and the buffs to offhand sword, it's by far the best weapon there is, maybe the only real option. even Could you consider nerfing offhand sword #4 by let's say 10-20% (one button 10k near-instant AoE that takes no skill whatsoever is not fine) and adding back Equilibrium in place of Rapid Flow, a completely useless placeholder trait?

 

This would make it so revenants can finally have their damage back without being forced into offhand sword, while still keeping the weapon viable yet not OP even with the combined burst, AND it'd even promote trait/playstyle diversity while upping the skill ceiling!

[Vermillion.4061]

Looks like shroud CD's on scourge will still be nerfed at least in WvW. :/

 

Anet, your goal is build diversity but you know this will just turn Soul Reaping into how Fast Hands is for warrior, basically impossible to not have in any build.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

 

One more quick note. For the most part, unless we encounter something catastrophic, this is probably the last big edit to this balance pass. Changing more at this point will put our planned release window at risk.

 

P.S. No, I'm not going to tell you what the window is at this time, release windows can sometimes shift.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

 

> **Mesmer**

> Skills

> • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW

> • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW

> • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW

> Traits

> • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW

> • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

 

Superiority complex is a bigger problem than mental anguish, why you don't touch it? During nerfing gs skills again (what you changed back one time already with the bounces from gs2) is the wrong way in my opinion. You listen to newbies crying about exiting mesmer burst since game release and never heard a complain from any semi decent player. How many GS shatter mesmer you see in PvP? Seriously... When you nerf the dmg traits mental anguish and superiority complex than gs need no further nerf in dmg.

 

Increasing cooldowns from phantasm skills is ok but not the main problem. With the dmg the phantasm do in one attack the mesmer don't need a second cast in a fight to win anyway. Staff, sword offhand and utility phantasm need a dmg nerf in addition to higher cooldowns.

 

The increased cooldown on Confounding Suggestion do not help vs the oneshot problems the newbies have anyway (mesmer only need one stun for that). as the higher cooldowns on phantasm skills don't help vs the problem from their high dmg and that mesmer can have too many illusion up what is a pain on the screen. Make the ICD on 10 seconds and don't trigger with Mantra of Distraction, so the mesmer at least need f3 in melee or sword ambush with good animation. Than you have no range instant stun with mantra anymore. Not that you see many MoD GS mesmer in PvP... but if you wanna please your casual players by nerfing a build they are just too lazy to understand than at least do it in a way that solve the problems newbies have. Otherwise GS shatter mesmer is completely dead, not that it was viable a single day since hot...

 

Chaosline and also Inspirationline could need some more nerfs.

 

Change the Illusion rule back to phantasm count to the maximum of 3 Illusions up and that they get shattered, otherwise it is too much clusterfuck and too much npc pressure. During the player dont even need to pay attention anymore that he don't shatter a phantasm before his first attack is finished. Phantasms turn into clones after their first attack, no other change is needed to avoid a decision between let phantasms live or shatter.

 

The way it is now mesmer meta will stay these npc based brainless phantasmspam builds with way too much sustain from chaosline or maybe even inspiration. During the pure glass gs shatterbuild which actually needs skill and is not op atm is even more dead than already.

 

 

[AEFA.9035]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > **Ranger**

> > > Traits

> > > • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only

> > >

> >

> > Is this edit in reference to the healing coefficient or to the base healing of the trait? A lot of ranger and soulbeast builds take Wilderness Survival, so I wouldn't want their sustain hurt by changes meant to tone down druid.

>

> Yeah, it's the coefficient.

 

Hey Ben, just wondering since were moving from passive game play. Would it be possible to look into protective ward in general? cause that trait itself is passive and wouldnt it be better for it to proc on certain factors/condition? than **When you receive damage?** ALSO please! any future plans on spirit ranger since the team seems to be focusing on changing passive game plays? thank you.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @"dontlook.1823" said:

> Are there going to be any PvE changes involved or is this strictly PvP/WvW?

 

With a couple exceptions, this is PvP/WvW only.

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> **Elementalist**

> Skills

> • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW

> • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW

> Traits

> • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

>

 

Not bad, but since you are taking away a LOT of defence and offense of core FA with the arcane blast and electric discharge (esp electric discharge), please consider making some sustained damage improvements in Core FA. Core FA is BARELY able to keep up, and even with reduced passives, mesmer and thief will still be far more dominant due to extremely low-CD bursts (compared to 20s on phoenix) and higher sustained pressure. I would suggest the following that would not involve a lot of risk:

 

- Decrease Phoenix CD to 15s in PvP.

Currently it takes forever to set up another burst, which is quite easy to miss, compared to thief and mesmer, which have a basically unlimited arsenal of burst capability. This helps CORE FA a TON, and has basically no impact on FA weaver as it never double-attunes to fire to access Phoenix (takes way too long), except maybe at the start of a fight, at which time cooldown doesn't matter.

 

- Rebalance Arc Lightning (air auto) so that it does more damage near the front and less at the end (so that the total dps stays the same, just less heavily back-loaded). Currently, you have to wait 2s before it actually starts doing damage equal to a simple mesmer GS auto. Just even it out so that there isn't such a stupidly long wait. Long term, I would also like the insane 0.5s windup to be reduced so that this skill starts channeling. It currently takes 3.95 seconds for a full channel of this skill.

[DeceiverX.8361]

I'm still going to say it now that the changes to ranger and Engi only affecting sPvP are a bad idea.

These two classes are not brought into large scale WvW not because of numbers but because of what the professions offer; with their current numbers, they're more overpowered in small engagements than anything. Nerfs to thief and mesmer are just going to push more people towards these classes in WvW which similarly lack identity in large-scale.

 

D/P not being overbuffed into extremes with numbers is good and all, but the kit is still binary because of defensive powercreep on other professions preventing hits from coming through. CnD being 5 initiative is not enough to fix D/D's problems, either. I know this isn't intended to be a major patch and more for tweaks, but Death Blossom needs to be made into a better mobility evade to make the kit work, even if at the expense of the reliable triple bleed. D/D lacks the capacity to reset because of its extremely unreliable stealth due to the amount of blocks/hit negation in the game, nor can it even compete with most professions' mobility today to either chase into more CnD's or escape AoE spam like scourge. Make it like Whirlwind Attack (fixed distance) with a low damage coefficient and maybe fewer bleeds to prevent spam from being enough to kill people and the kit becomes totally usable.

 

Reaper still needs love. SoS's effects were just too important for it to flourish in most PvP settings, in particular the shroud cooldown reduction. It really needs to be made 7s base and life force gain still needs further improvement given the massive degen, since shroud is already punishable pretty easily via its lack of sustained stability and long casts on skills outside of RShroud.

[Curunen.8729]

Just for the record in case you're still debating it internally - 3s exhaustion on Elusive Mind is still an issue given that mirage can dodge when cced as standard, making EM a harmful trait if unintentionally breaking short duration cc effects (very easy to do if hitting dodge in the middle of a 1/2s daze or something), compared with not taking EM and simply allowing the evade duration to extend over the cc effect while maintaining endurance regen.

 

I hope you may still consider the 10s ICD route.

 

Edit - the only way this exhaustion mechanic would make sense is if you plan at some point in the future to prevent mirage being able to dodge when cced at all - which may be a good thing, but ought to be done at the same time to keep EM relevant.

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Just for the record in case you're still debating it internally - 3s exhaustion on Elusive Mind is still an issue given that mirage can dodge when cced as standard, making EM a harmful trait if unintentionally breaking short duration cc effects (very easy to do if hitting dodge in the middle of a 1/2s daze or something), compared with not taking EM and simply allowing the evade duration to extend over the cc effect while maintaining endurance regen.

>

> I hope you may still consider the 10s ICD route.

>

> Edit - the only way this exhaustion mechanic would make sense is if you plan at some point in the future to prevent mirage being able to dodge when cced at all - which may be a good thing, but ought to be done at the same time to keep EM relevant.

 

I disagree with that assessment. A 10s cooldown (on the stunbreak only) means you have to be CC'd TWICE while not invuln/stealth/etc for it to not stunbreak you, and it still gives you the same i-frames that you initially had. It essentially makes the skill 100% equal (unless you tie that 10s ICD to the cleanse+stunbreak, in which case, fair point).

 

As it is, 3s exhaustion seems reasonable, because it means hitting a stun at least results in some punishment for the mesmer/reward for his opponent. EM currently makes mesmer 100% unpunishable by counter-pressure, roots, or even CC. With exhaustion, at least you can use to prevent it from being completely uber-powerful.

 

Even without the stunbreak, mirage being able to get 1s of invuln, whether rooted, cc'd or anythings is already more powerful that unhindered combatant, which only made thieves immune to immob.

[Tzozef.9841]

I think overall the nerfs all around to passives are appropiate, both offensive and defensive. Stone Form nerf and Sand Shade skill Cooldown increase are good ideas and examples of what to nerf.

 

Those are just passive abilities with no skill involved. With stone form nerf, they actually have to TIME their skill application, and sand shade skill too, since now it's 30 secs.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > Just for the record in case you're still debating it internally - 3s exhaustion on Elusive Mind is still an issue given that mirage can dodge when cced as standard, making EM a harmful trait if unintentionally breaking short duration cc effects (very easy to do if hitting dodge in the middle of a 1/2s daze or something), compared with not taking EM and simply allowing the evade duration to extend over the cc effect while maintaining endurance regen.

> >

> > I hope you may still consider the 10s ICD route.

> >

> > Edit - the only way this exhaustion mechanic would make sense is if you plan at some point in the future to prevent mirage being able to dodge when cced at all - which may be a good thing, but ought to be done at the same time to keep EM relevant.

>

> I disagree with that assessment. A 10s cooldown (on the stunbreak only) means you have to be CC'd TWICE while not invuln/stealth/etc for it to not stunbreak you, and it still gives you the same i-frames that you initially had. It essentially makes the skill 100% equal (unless you tie that 10s ICD to the cleanse+stunbreak, in which case, fair point).

>

> As it is, 3s exhaustion seems reasonable, because it means hitting a stun at least results in some punishment for the mesmer/reward for his opponent. EM currently makes mesmer 100% unpunishable by counter-pressure, roots, or even CC. With exhaustion, at least you can use to prevent it from being completely uber-powerful.

>

> **Even without the stunbreak, mirage being able to get 1s of invuln, whether rooted, cc'd or anythings is already more powerful that unhindered combatant, which only made thieves immune to immob.**

 

That last sentence of yours is the whole point. Why would anyone bother using EM aside from the condi cleanse when mirage dodge already works under cc, just not breaking you out of it?

 

10s ICD would mean one stunbreak then 10s of no stunbreak. I don't see how that is a problem. I mean even with exhaustion you still need to "cc twice" according to your assessment, also assuming the mesmer hasn't got a full endurance bar to begin with in which case they could still break two stuns back to back with exhaustion. With an ICD it would be a single stunbreak with a cooldown that can be counted (sure I'd love a UI indicator) allowing for better counter play.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

>

> One more quick note. For the most part, unless we encounter something catastrophic, this is probably the last big edit to this balance pass. Changing more at this point will put our planned release window at risk.

>

> P.S. No, I'm not going to tell you what the window is at this time, release windows can sometimes shift.

 

I'm usually very critical of anet's balance passes. But this one looks very good. Impressive. Hopefully pvp changes for the better.

[Evolute.6239]

Pleased to see the mesmer nerfs, but not sure they will be enough to combat the phantasm spam builds that are appearing with every buff in the game. Even with cooldown increases, their army of 10 phantasms on you is more or less unavoidable and exceptionally brainless for how effective it is :\

 

 

[aDemoNnDisguisE.8576]

Well, there it is.

Core Necro/Reaper is still FUBR due to that high shroud CD.

 

This game's balance team gets worse and worse every year.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

3s of exhaustion is still bad @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" even 2s of exhaustion is an essue just consider the 10 sec stun-break on elusive mind it's the best way and everyone asked for it, this exhaustion mechanic is realy bad for Mirage just don't do it .enough of this drama plz.

The other changes i'm ok about them considering every class got fair nerfs

Consider plz buff the sceptre auto attack for mesmer it's realy bad the best way is to add more speed cast 20% extra speed on the trait

 

The unblockable of the sword on thief need nerfs it's spamable skill with evades and boon rip and hug dmg especially if it crits

The warriors full counter can crit for 12k or more i hope this upcoming nerfs won't allow that anymore.

Thanks.

[kappa.2036]

Any chance to see improvements on soulbeast? I really want to play that spec but it is still not competitive even after 6 months :(

[Roxanne.6140]

In summary, just a whole bunch of nerfs to light armour and some buffs for heavy armour for wvw

[apharma.3741]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Hey folks!

>

> I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

>

> A few notes:

> We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

>

> Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

>

> **Warrior**

> • Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 180 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

>

> **Revenant**

> Skills

> • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> **Thief**

> Skills

> • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW

> • We decided not to do the following buffs;

> • Heartseeker

> • Shadow Shot

> • Infiltrator’s Strike

> Traits

> • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> **Ranger**

> Skills

> • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only

> • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only

> • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only

> Traits

> • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only

> • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only

> • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only

> • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

>

> **Engineer**

> Skills

> • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only

> • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only

> • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only

> • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

>

> **Elementalist**

> Skills

> • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW

> • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW

> • Tornado: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.

> Traits

> • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

>

> **Mesmer**

> Skills

> • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW

> • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW

> • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW

> Traits

> • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW

> • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

>

> Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

 

For elementalist, I agree with blackbeard:

Not bad, but since you are taking away a LOT of defence and offense of core FA with the arcane blast and electric discharge (esp electric discharge), please consider making some sustained damage improvements in Core FA. Core FA is BARELY able to keep up, and even with reduced passives, mesmer and thief will still be far more dominant due to extremely low-CD bursts (compared to 20s on phoenix) and higher sustained pressure. I would suggest the following that would not involve a lot of risk:

 

Decrease Phoenix CD to 15s in PvP.

Currently it takes forever to set up another burst, which is quite easy to miss, compared to thief and mesmer, which have a basically unlimited arsenal of burst capability. This helps CORE FA a TON, and has basically no impact on FA weaver as it never double-attunes to fire to access Phoenix (takes way too long), except maybe at the start of a fight, at which time cooldown doesn't matter.

 

Rebalance Arc Lightning (air auto) so that it does more damage near the front and less at the end (so that the total dps stays the same, just less heavily back-loaded). Currently, you have to wait 2s before it actually starts doing damage equal to a simple mesmer GS auto. Just even it out so that there isn't such a stupidly long wait. Long term, I would also like the insane 0.5s windup to be reduced so that this skill starts channelling. It currently takes 3.95 seconds for a full channel of this skill.

 

For mesmer, I'm mostly ok with these but I really don't think elusive mind should be a stunbreak at all, stunbreak on dodge is far too strong and it removes most counterplay to landing CC and properly baiting out other stunbreaks especially when mesmer can have so many stunbreaks already. I really would say remove the stunbreak aspect and keep it as just cleanse on dodge.

 

I also don't agree with confounding suggestions change, it's only delaying the problem not alleviating it which is that people cast mantra of distraction and it's immediately a 1s stun making the burst of mesmer doing max damage in the blink of an eye. I'd rather see the trait reworked but that is beyond there scope of the patch.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > Hey folks!

> > >

> > > I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

> > >

> > > A few notes:

> > > We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

> > >

> > > Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

> > >

> > > **Revenant**

> > > Skills

> > > • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > >

> > > **Thief**

> > > Skills

> > > • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW

> > > • We decided not to do the following buffs;

> > > • Heartseeker

> > > • Shadow Shot

> > > • Infiltrator’s Strike

> > > Traits

> > > • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > >

> > > **Ranger**

> > > Skills

> > > • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only

> > > • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only

> > > • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> > > • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only

> > > Traits

> > > • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only

> > > • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only

> > > • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only

> > > • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> > > • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> > > • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> > >

> > > **Engineer**

> > > Skills

> > > • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only

> > > • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> > > • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only

> > > • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only

> > > • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

> > >

> > > **Elementalist**

> > > Skills

> > > • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW

> > > • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW

> > > Traits

> > > • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

> > >

> > > **Mesmer**

> > > Skills

> > > • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > > • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > > • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW

> > > • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW

> > > • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > > • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > > • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW

> > > Traits

> > > • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> > > • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> > > • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW

> > > • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > >

> >

> > Great list hmmm....are you still on board with nerfing stability on corona blast? Last update you decided to limit the stability application to actual hit rather than free stability application

>

> Yeah, that's still happening.

 

Can I ask why? Are other melee classes getting their evades/blocks/stability reduced as well? I know some zerk warriors who just won't die. Or is it just holo that's getting its defenses singled out in that regard? Because engineer's Photon Forge features no blocks and no built-in evades, unlike thief or warrior. The stability is a practical necessity as it exists, and nerfing it will not push engineers towards using any of the other master tier traits.

 

I hope you'll also consider [my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411445/#Comment_411445 "my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper") so that the class isn't completely pointless in PvP too.

[Trigr.6481]

When it comes to confounding suggestions the intent of the nerf isn't really justified, the bigger culprit is things that enable it, esp mantra of distraction. I actually made a thread regarding a redesign to mantra's if anyone wants to take a look. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29895/mesmer-mantra-complete-redesign#latest

 

Nerfing counfounding to this extent isn't providing balance, it's just going to mean that nobody is going to take the trait.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Trigr.6481" said:

> When it comes to confounding suggestions the intent of the nerf isn't really justified, the bigger culprit is things that enable it, esp mantra of distraction. I actually made a thread regarding a redesign to mantra's if anyone wants to take a look. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29895/mesmer-mantra-complete-redesign#latest

>

> Nerfing counfounding to this extent isn't providing balance, it's just going to mean that nobody is going to take the trait.

 

And that’s probably the point. It’s easier to make it were no one will take it than change the function or it’s interactions with our cc’s. Similar to the EM change, no one is going to take it with exhaustion thrown at it.