Eleazar.9478 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Not talking benchmarks what's the goal is should hit as a pug? 15k -30k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Its pretty boss specific. What you hit on vg is different from what you hit on kc, etc. Also, the boon uptime of the support classes around you matters a lot. However, here: https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ You can find the numbers snow crows typically hits by going under benchmarks for each boss. Keep in mind, most players, even regular raiders, are not as good as snow crows. Truthfully, the best thing to do is run arcdps, and just see if your doing damage competitive with the other dps classes in your raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Don't compare yourself to Snow Crows, QT, etc in your pug raids. You won't have support/synergy anywhere near on the level they have. This site compiles ArcDPS stats from a variety of typical raid groups against different bosses. https://www.gw2raidar.com/info-help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarasicodissa.7084 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Snow Crow website gives you a very good idea of the DPS (and what you should aim for) in high-end groups. Although it might be worth noting, that it hugely depends on the strategy you use and approaching SC values might become literally impossible in a pug setting. For example if your overall squad DPS is so horrible that you're forced to move Xera out of the middle before 75%, you will lose out on a huge chunk of your DPS and won't be able to reach SC benchmark for her. In some other cases (like playing condi BS on Samarog), you might be able to actually do way MORE damage than the Snow Crows benchmark, because the incompetence of players in pug will give you more room to DPS (whereas in SC all benchmarks assume that players will do their job properly and nobody leeches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 [gw2raidar](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats "gw2raidar") Take the stats with a grain of salt. I expect they are collected mostly from more or less experienced groups, so the results would be skewed toward better performance than your average pug. But they give you a rough idea how are you doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: Total health: 20mio Enrage timer: 8 minutes You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > Total health: 20mio > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > > > Total health: 20mio > > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. > > This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. When people understand mechanics, that's not a problem. We are not talking about 2 hour raids where people make mistakes because of exhaustion. If you know the mechanics and can stay focused for 8 minutes, it's all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > > > > > Total health: 20mio > > > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > > > > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > > > > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > > > > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. > > > > This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. > > When people understand mechanics, that's not a problem. We are not talking about 2 hour raids where people make mistakes because of exhaustion. If you know the mechanics and can stay focused for 8 minutes, it's all you need. And yet it makes the 2-hour raiding sessions so much more relaxed and fun. Regardless of the understanding, people WILL make mistakes. Having good dps is just like having good support in this respect - it gives you a larger buffer for making mistakes, after which you can still recover with relative ease. Do not underestimate the value of good dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > > > > > > > Total health: 20mio > > > > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > > > > > > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > > > > > > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > > > > > > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. > > > > > > This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. > > > > When people understand mechanics, that's not a problem. We are not talking about 2 hour raids where people make mistakes because of exhaustion. If you know the mechanics and can stay focused for 8 minutes, it's all you need. > > And yet it makes the 2-hour raiding sessions so much more relaxed and fun. Regardless of the understanding, people WILL make mistakes. Having good dps is just like having good support in this respect - it gives you a larger buffer for making mistakes, after which you can still recover with relative ease. Do not underestimate the value of good dps. Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > > > > > > > > > Total health: 20mio > > > > > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > > > > > > > > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. > > > > > > > > This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. > > > > > > When people understand mechanics, that's not a problem. We are not talking about 2 hour raids where people make mistakes because of exhaustion. If you know the mechanics and can stay focused for 8 minutes, it's all you need. > > > > And yet it makes the 2-hour raiding sessions so much more relaxed and fun. Regardless of the understanding, people WILL make mistakes. Having good dps is just like having good support in this respect - it gives you a larger buffer for making mistakes, after which you can still recover with relative ease. Do not underestimate the value of good dps. > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. Well yea, mechanics are first priority. But doing your role well is right after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinomori.1456 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > Or you could take the total health of a boss and divide it with the number of damage dealers in your group and take the enrage time into account. For example Cairn: > > > > > > > > > > Total health: 20mio > > > > > Enrage timer: 8 minutes > > > > > > > > > > You need about 42k dps to make it before he gets enraged. If you play with 6 damage dealers, that's 7k dps per player. That completely ignores the damage from healer/s and chrono/s so you are on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > > My suggestion is to not focus on dps but on mechanics. Mechanics is much more important than damage in this game. Most damage dealers will do much more than 7k dps on Cairn. A single condi Daredevil + support would almost deal enough damage to kill Cairn before he gets enraged, it's all about mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > All this talk about meta dps is irrelevant unless you plan to do speed runs. If your group does enough damage to kill before enrage, that's enough to make most participants happy. Groups rarely fail because of low dps. > > > > > > > > This is not exactly true. More dps means less mechanics. So as a dps, it's always better if you're looking to improve yourself and not be content doing the bare minimum. It will make the whole fight easier for everyone, just like good healing or sharing aegis will make it easier. > > > > > > When people understand mechanics, that's not a problem. We are not talking about 2 hour raids where people make mistakes because of exhaustion. If you know the mechanics and can stay focused for 8 minutes, it's all you need. > > > > And yet it makes the 2-hour raiding sessions so much more relaxed and fun. Regardless of the understanding, people WILL make mistakes. Having good dps is just like having good support in this respect - it gives you a larger buffer for making mistakes, after which you can still recover with relative ease. Do not underestimate the value of good dps. > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"kinomori.1456" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. > > I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. Even autoattack does more than 7k. If you have less than that, it means back to the drawing board when it comes to gear. I've done some pug raiding and dps was never a problem, even if one or two members of the squad were miserable. What I have seen though is players who try to do as much damage as possible while failing mechanics, not only in raids. Few days ago I pugged 99cm fractals and it wasn't a very experienced group. Siax dropped his poison fields right in the middle at maybe 5% health. I swapped from staff to pistols because I'm not stepping into those things, they kill a thief quickly. I know I do less damage with pistols, but it was better than failing the mechanics. Guess what, all other members went in, to keep dpsing as much as possible. I had to do the 5% myself, turns out you cannot outheal that kind of damage. People focus on dps instead of mechanics, and it should be the way around. When you can do the mechanics on auto-pilot, focusing on other stuff like damage is much easier. Of course the encounter takes longer that way, but it's like learning an instrument. You start slowly and focus on hitting the notes, speed comes naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalem.8921 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"kinomori.1456" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. > > > > I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. > >Few days ago I pugged 99cm fractals and it wasn't a very experienced group. Siax dropped his poison fields right in the middle at maybe 5% health. I swapped from staff to pistols because I'm not stepping into those things, they kill a thief quickly. I know I do less damage with pistols, but it was better than failing the mechanics. Guess what, all other members went in, to keep dpsing as much as possible. I had to do the 5% myself, turns out you cannot outheal that kind of damage. That poison only triggers when somebody goes ranged. With normal dps the 33-0% phase takes like 5 seconds anyways. You clearly haven't pugged a lot when dps was never a problem. Most of the time the dps is so low that mechanics start killing the team. Usually 1 healing or even condi druid is enough but if dps is low enough you get killed from stuff you usually don't even notice like add damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 GW2raidar global stats is a great source (tip: the data is presented as top 1%, top 25% and average), but as a golden rule a DPS need to do more Boss DPS than the support roles, but in reality it depend on boss mechanics. Most of the time DPS get compared to DPS when two people are doing the exact same job with the same responsibilities. Context matter a lot in raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"kinomori.1456" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. > > > > I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. > > Even autoattack does more than 7k. If you have less than that, it means back to the drawing board when it comes to gear. I've done some pug raiding and dps was never a problem, even if one or two members of the squad were miserable. What I have seen though is players who try to do as much damage as possible while failing mechanics, not only in raids. Few days ago I pugged 99cm fractals and it wasn't a very experienced group. Siax dropped his poison fields right in the middle at maybe 5% health. I swapped from staff to pistols because I'm not stepping into those things, they kill a thief quickly. I know I do less damage with pistols, but it was better than failing the mechanics. Guess what, all other members went in, to keep dpsing as much as possible. I had to do the 5% myself, turns out you cannot outheal that kind of damage. > > People focus on dps instead of mechanics, and it should be the way around. When you can do the mechanics on auto-pilot, focusing on other stuff like damage is much easier. Of course the encounter takes longer that way, but it's like learning an instrument. You start slowly and focus on hitting the notes, speed comes naturally. This is wrong. Auto attack does not do more than 7k, because the auto attack on some builds is utter crap. Like on necro, or base engi. Which is why they use kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > @"kinomori.1456" said: > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. > > > > > > I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. > > > >Few days ago I pugged 99cm fractals and it wasn't a very experienced group. Siax dropped his poison fields right in the middle at maybe 5% health. I swapped from staff to pistols because I'm not stepping into those things, they kill a thief quickly. I know I do less damage with pistols, but it was better than failing the mechanics. Guess what, all other members went in, to keep dpsing as much as possible. I had to do the 5% myself, turns out you cannot outheal that kind of damage. > > That poison only triggers when somebody goes ranged. > With normal dps the 33-0% phase takes like 5 seconds anyways. > You clearly haven't pugged a lot when dps was never a problem. Most of the time the dps is so low that mechanics start killing the team. Usually 1 healing or even condi druid is enough but if dps is low enough you get killed from stuff you usually don't even notice like add damage. This isnt correct. On Saix (CM particularly) the poison targets the person furthest away from the boss, it doesnt matter if you are melee or ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"kinomori.1456" said: > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > Dude, I have nothing against high dps, the more the better. But for raid beginners, it's not something they should be concerned with. > > > > > > > > I disagree, it is very much something they should be concerned with. I'm not saying to go hit the training golem for 30 hours until you know your rotation to a T, but you should spend time to get it down. The better you know your rotation, the better you'll be able to pull it off in an actual raid setting. I'm just saying, but if someone saw you doing 7k dps on cairn, you'd likely get kicked and not allowed to progress to MO. > > > > > >Few days ago I pugged 99cm fractals and it wasn't a very experienced group. Siax dropped his poison fields right in the middle at maybe 5% health. I swapped from staff to pistols because I'm not stepping into those things, they kill a thief quickly. I know I do less damage with pistols, but it was better than failing the mechanics. Guess what, all other members went in, to keep dpsing as much as possible. I had to do the 5% myself, turns out you cannot outheal that kind of damage. > > > > That poison only triggers when somebody goes ranged. > > With normal dps the 33-0% phase takes like 5 seconds anyways. > > You clearly haven't pugged a lot when dps was never a problem. Most of the time the dps is so low that mechanics start killing the team. Usually 1 healing or even condi druid is enough but if dps is low enough you get killed from stuff you usually don't even notice like add damage. > > This isnt correct. On Saix (CM particularly) the poison targets the person furthest away from the boss, it doesnt matter if you are melee or ranged. Was about to reply saying exactly that. I once had a Druid in 99cm who started making fun of us, saying nobody should step away from the boss because that triggers poison fields. I replied that I rather have them on the edges of the arena than in the middle. She mocked me, saying that he doesn't throw any poison fields if you don't range. I stopped arguing right there, because if that was the case, you would never have any poison fields in the middle of the arena. It was her job to kite and position the poison fields away from the group ^^ I think only really high dps can avoid poison fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood.5607 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Depends what dps you are / how close to meta your composition is. Going to assume as close to meta as possible (as that what people should aim to make for any raid encounter). Weaver should be able to pull about 30k+ taking Air traitline over arcane in the phase that it is stunned. Something like VG where the boss moves around (doesnt stand in weaver fields consistently) you'll pull around 15-20k. As others have posted, gw2raidar.com is a good place to compare and know personal statistics. You can upload files to the site to that are automatically generated (if u take the option to auto compress file) via arcdps to personally see how you perform in an encounter (losing or beating the boss). If you enjoy being a DPS-Only in raids, its often good to have 1 of both of types of DPS (e.x power weaver and condi mirage) where the condi mirage will pull higher boss dps on certain encounters, usually ones where you need to move more (like SH/Matthias/Cairn, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Eleazar.9478" said: > Not talking benchmarks what's the goal is should hit as a pug? 15k -30k? You have DPS meter on? Check and compare ur DPS with the others .. Only need to worry when ur DPS is lowest and or less than support lol :scream: it really depends on group and bosses and mechanics management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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