weapon redesign

[messiah.1908]

just saw someone idea about delete the weapon swap and instead make the same weapon change functionality according to the legend used.

i think its a great idea which open up the frontline revenant to whole new concept and abilities.

 

**shiro**

**hammer** - melee weapon which should able to teleport in and out. focus on melee dmg and self quickness

**sword** - same as it is

**mace** - focus on stealing life while proc aoe quickness fury and might

**staff** - focus on evade and reflect. while doing aoe dmg

 

**jalis**

**hammer** - same as it is.

**sword** - focus on cc ability and fast vulnerability stacks

**mace** - focus on aoe dmg mitigation proc more stability and resistance and retaliation aoe.

**staff** - focus on area denial and block. while proc aoe protection and swiftness

 

**ventari**

**hammer** - focus on range healing and support with water field

**sword** - focus melee aoe regen and vigor

**mace** - focus on condi cleanse with light fields and blast finisher.

**staff** - same as it is

 

**mallyx**

**hammer** - focus on mid range slow and poison and burning fields

**sword** - focus melee vulnerability poison and bleed

**mace** - same as it is

**staff** - focus on boon removal/corrupt with chill and blind

 

just stopped here. what are you thinking. would it be better?

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

I think it would be interesting, then add a specific F2 skill for each legend.

 

you forgot offhand weapons and the glint (shield) and kalla (shortbow) weapons.

 

@"Justine.6351" also said it was a stupid idea. Maybe not stupid, but stated it could cause unforeseen issues.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> you forgot offhand weapons and the glint (shield) and kalla (shortbow) weapons.

>

> @"Justine.6351" also said it was a stupid idea.

 

i said i stopped.

if justin said whom are we to raise an idea....

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

oops - I missed that

[Justine.6351]

Its not that the idea can't work, its just since you only have 2 legends unlike the ele 4 attunes, you would have to make the skills pretty freaking amazing to remove weapon swap from revenant. Or you will just trash the class so hard it will only be used as a novelty class by RPers. The other problem is, I like having a melee swap to balance my ranged hammer, so what would I do?

[Buran.3796]

Yep, on paper sounds as good as "look, we will have two healing skills, awesome", but in practice take a look of how crappy they ended.

 

Also, the Rev's design team didn't bother to translate most of legends to underwater, neither to create a second underwater weapon, you seriously think that they will take the effort to make 4x5x5 weapon skills, plus the ones for the specs plus the new skills for the new weapons? Dude that's delusional; that kind of work is only for Weavers of Firebrands, which were here from mthe beginning, not for a underdeveloped bait class designed to sell copies through oversized numbers. You can expect a REDUCTION in the number of features Rev has, never a increase.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Its not that the idea can't work, its just since you only have 2 legends unlike the ele 4 attunes, you would have to make the skills pretty freaking amazing to remove weapon swap from revenant. Or you will just trash the class so hard it will only be used as a novelty class by RPers. The other problem is, I like having a melee swap to balance my ranged hammer, so what would I do?

 

today we have 2 weapon sets with 10 skills

with legends swap it will be the same 10 skills with 1 weapon.

 

the idea is to conect the legend to the weapon

 

if you want melee go with shiro and if you want range take jalis for example

[messiah.1908]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> Yep, on paper sounds as good as "look, we will have two healing skills, awesome", but in practice take a look of how crappy they ended.

>

> Also, the Rev's design team didn't bother to translate most of legends to underwater, neither to create a second underwater weapon, you seriously think that they will take the effort to make 4x5x5 weapon skills, plus the ones for the specs plus the new skills for the new weapons? Dude that's delusional; that kind of work is only for Weavers of Firebrands, which were here from mthe beginning, not for a underdeveloped bait class designed to sell copies through oversized numbers. You can expect a REDUCTION in the number of features Rev has, never a increase.

 

so your idea is not to brings ideas as revenant is already doomed. .. nice

underwater fights... common... maybe they didnt make second underwater cause they want to (or still testing) see legends swap idea

[Buran.3796]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

 

> so your idea is not to brings ideas as revenant is already doomed. .. nice

 

 

I no longer speculate about future new specs or skills because overall there's no connection between player's feedback and Rev designer's work, so is a waste of time.

 

Also I don't think that Rev is in need of new ideas; at some point in the past this class was meta in every department of the game. Instead of new mechanics, traits and skills what needs is tweaks in numbers, partially reversing 25 months of nerfs. You feel that the shield, or the staff, or maybe (soon) the hammer are bad? Ok. You think that they need changes in the skills? Nope! At some point shield was great due provided sustain (still does, as long as you aren't focused by conditions or have propper team support with cleanses), but his properties were numbed down until reached the "thing that hangs in my arm" status. Shiro used to provide high mobility, high amount of procs on crit and enhanced burst of attack speed. That's no longer the case: currently feels like a set of Warrior minus the chance of freely select your utilities.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Why not interchangable weaponskills. So its basically a reverse bar where you can swap utilities depending on legend and costimize your weaponskills at your bidding.

4 skills per weaponskillslot.

2 Melee (one power one condi)

2 range (one power one condi)

 

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

interesting idea, but it would further decrease customizability with rev.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

>

> > so your idea is not to brings ideas as revenant is already doomed. .. nice

>

>

> I no longer speculate about future new specs or skills because overall there's no connection between player's feedback and Rev designer's work, so is a waste of time.

>

> Also I don't think that Rev is in need of new ideas; at some point in the past this class was meta in every department of the game. Instead of new mechanics, traits and skills what needs is tweaks in numbers, partially reversing 25 months of nerfs. You feel that the shield, or the staff, or maybe (soon) the hammer are bad? Ok. You think that they need changes in the skills? Nope! At some point shield was great due provided sustain (still does, as long as you aren't focused by conditions or have propper team support with cleanses), but his properties were numbed down until reached the "thing that hangs in my arm" status. Shiro used to provide high mobility, high amount of procs on crit and enhanced burst of attack speed. That's no longer the case: currently feels like a set of Warrior minus the chance of freely select your utilities.

 

so again you focus on complain instead on ideas. if you feel you can contribute please do so....

 

we all know rev is in a bad spot. that's why some of use keep trying. maybe few ideas will get stuck. i know some of mine did

[messiah.1908]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Why not interchangable weaponskills. So its basically a reverse bar where you can swap utilities depending on legend and costimize your weaponskills at your bidding.

> 4 skills per weaponskillslot.

> 2 Melee (one power one condi)

> 2 range (one power one condi)

>

>

 

cause i think it is the same just change left to right ....

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

I think the underwater weapon is a really good start as an example of what Rev with only 1 weapon could have been.

1. ranged skill

2. close combat skill

3. ranged with additional mechanic

4. gap closer

5. basically control skill

 

right there you have the basic framework of what could have been every weapon, however each weapon would get a slight tweak based on the legend. I have seen numerous comments about making the weapons for vanilla rev and adding something flavorful based on the legend you are currently using

[messiah.1908]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> interesting idea, but it would further decrease customizability with rev.

 

on the contrary. it'll definitely increase customization.

rev atm is mainly melee (even with hammer most of the dmg come from s/s). now you'r legend will determine how you gonna go. you have 6 legends so think what you can do with them.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > Its not that the idea can't work, its just since you only have 2 legends unlike the ele 4 attunes, you would have to make the skills pretty freaking amazing to remove weapon swap from revenant. Or you will just trash the class so hard it will only be used as a novelty class by RPers. The other problem is, I like having a melee swap to balance my ranged hammer, so what would I do?

>

> today we have 2 weapon sets with 10 skills

> with legends swap it will be the same 10 skills with 1 weapon.

>

> the idea is to conect the legend to the weapon

>

> if you want melee go with shiro and if you want range take jalis for example

 

But currently you can take a melee and ranged weapon, in your iteration if you take like hammer you just switch between different sets of ranged skills, you can't swap actual ranges.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > Its not that the idea can't work, its just since you only have 2 legends unlike the ele 4 attunes, you would have to make the skills pretty freaking amazing to remove weapon swap from revenant. Or you will just trash the class so hard it will only be used as a novelty class by RPers. The other problem is, I like having a melee swap to balance my ranged hammer, so what would I do?

> >

> > today we have 2 weapon sets with 10 skills

> > with legends swap it will be the same 10 skills with 1 weapon.

> >

> > the idea is to conect the legend to the weapon

> >

> > if you want melee go with shiro and if you want range take jalis for example

>

> But currently you can take a melee and ranged weapon, in your iteration if you take like hammer you just switch between different sets of ranged skills, you can't swap actual ranges.

 

who said?

with shiro hammer can be melee and with jalis hammer can be range. its like ele attunements not all skills have the same range...

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

 

> **shiro**

> **hammer** - range weapon

 

Well you said...

[messiah.1908]

> @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

>

> > **shiro**

> > **hammer** - range weapon

>

> Well you said...

 

thank for correcting me . edit above to melee.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > interesting idea, but it would further decrease customizability with rev.

>

> on the contrary. it'll definitely increase customization.

> rev atm is mainly melee (even with hammer most of the dmg come from s/s). now you'r legend will determine how you gonna go. you have 6 legends so think what you can do with them.

 

I like it don't get me wrong, and it would probably work way better if implemented correctly but I have no faith in anet to implement anything successfully for rev lol but what I meant by limiting customizability is that you would only have one less variable for customizing your build. With the new system you would get your two legends and that would determine basically all your skills. You do get to choose a weapon, but the weapons being tied to the legend will mostly make all weapons very similar within their respective legend. If I were to take a hammer, I would have to choose two legends and almost always will only have a choice between a legend with range or a legend with melee. I most likely wouldn't choose two legends with the same range, thus limiting my choices. If they could make the weapon skills related to legends waaaaaay different I think this could work. But I do love elementalist, so if they could make this work I would be all for it and i think it would be a better fit thematically.

[messiah.1908]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > > interesting idea, but it would further decrease customizability with rev.

> >

> > on the contrary. it'll definitely increase customization.

> > rev atm is mainly melee (even with hammer most of the dmg come from s/s). now you'r legend will determine how you gonna go. you have 6 legends so think what you can do with them.

>

> I like it don't get me wrong, and it would probably work way better if implemented correctly but I have no faith in anet to implement anything successfully for rev lol but what I meant by limiting customizability is that you would only have one less variable for customizing your build. With the new system you would get your two legends and that would determine basically all your skills. You do get to choose a weapon, but the weapons being tied to the legend will mostly make all weapons very similar within their respective legend. If I were to take a hammer, I would have to choose two legends and almost always will only have a choice between a legend with range or a legend with melee. I most likely wouldn't choose two legends with the same range, thus limiting my choices. If they could make the weapon skills related to legends waaaaaay different I think this could work. But I do love elementalist, so if they could make this work I would be all for it and i think it would be a better fit thematically.

 

i get it and you are correct in some way. atm rev never use hammer (in wvw zerg maybe) so atm you have 2 melee weapon used. that's why i think it wont effect customization much. sure it will determined by anet implementation.

another way is to make ppl choose their legend to act in ways they want to. atm shiro and herald are used not because they are suited for the job rather shiro gives (gave) quickness and shadow step and herald give easy boons and low nrg management in any situation. not because you want to play like first in the front line and support your team with boons (as almost any other class can do so atm... ) (as you can see anet losing authentication for each class . everyone can do anything just with different animations)