Power necro (reaper) any viability ?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"pah.4931" said:

> > > Anyways. In a glass canon meta, power reaper can really shine. .

> >

> > No, Reaper performs worse the higher the damage getting thrown around is. Shroud is a non-scaling defense mechanic, the size of your LF bar and your LF generation do not in any way scale with incoming damage. This means the higher the incoming damage is the less and less effective Reaper is, and the lower the incoming damage the more effective reaper is. This is contrast to avoidance mechanics like dodges, blocks, or invulns, which scale perfectly regardless of how much damage is getting thrown around.

> >

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > Vitality i good against power and condi.

> > > Toughness only against power, so why would i pick toughness?

> > > Esp while scourge is still meta

> >

> > Because you're a T3 health class with trash tier self-healing, which means you can't effectively refill your giant health bar which means your vitality has little value beyond the first few seconds of a fight. Toughness actually reduces the damage you take which is vastly more important in a protracted fight.

> >

> > The only reason necromancers run vitality is because our Life Force bar scales with it, outside of that vitality has little to no value to necromancers.

> >

> > As for toughness not working against condi, that fact is irrelevant. 90% of the damage you take in the current meta is going to be power damage. Even Scourge puts out a decent amount of power damage. Besides you shouldn't be taking a engage against a Scourge as a Reaper since Scourge will mop the floor with you regardless of how much vitality you stack, and nobody outside of Scourge runs condi in this meta.

> >

>

> The point is that because other specs are building around doing as much damage as possible, Reapers are able to play more defensively while still pumping out a decent amount of damage.

 

I guess thats wrong. Cause then others will also play defensively and soon that isnt a glass cannon meta anymore.

So u going defensive? Nice others dont have to because they are much more mobile, or have better dmg mitigation.

Even doe i like the nerf to passive defensive traits, thats still not enough to make reaper good.

 

> When the other team is made up of squishy bursters, you play around their burst and then DESTROY them with ease.

 

How do you want to do this? Go in shroud? Then they will blow their burst in your shroud, they jump away, u have no shroud left and they come again after 10 seconds to burst you again.

 

So going shroud doesnt work.

 

So there has to be another option right?

We activate our invincible skill and tank the dmg.... oh wait. We dont have such a skill.

 

> The recent patch reduces damage (on some classes) and defenses, both good things for Reaper -- and many people overcompensated the loss of damage by going even glassier, which makes a Power Reaper drool. We still suffer from not having a role in this lame Conquest-Only design, and our only problem is burst from range (which shouldn't really be a thing... melee SHOULD always do more damage than range, but Anet has some really odd design principles).

 

The main problem for reaper is, that its a light armor class, with sloooooooow attacks, that needs to go melee with almost none existable movement to kill someone.

 

While other classes do way more dmg/burst with still 900 or more range and faster attacks, while still being able to run like chickens

[Nimon.7840]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > @"pah.4931" said:

> > > >Paladin amulet is your friend.

> > > This and cavalier... the last is the most underrated stat / amulet for power reaper in a power burst / glass canon meta! Just go for Bitter Chill, Death Perception and Decimate Defenses in a Axe+Focus/GS build and stack vulnerability like crazy. You end up with marauder like damage on 3k+ armor.

> > >

> > > Since they ignore our shroud cd requests I guess this is how Anet wants us to play reaper in PvP/WvW as the cavalier armor overkill lets us survive the 10s shroud cd with ease even when facing a thief.

> >

> > LoL

> >

> > You know what class cannon means?

> > Its not investing in defensive stats. And cavalier does a lot.

> >

> > And with the things mentioned above, you will loose so much lf generation, or defensive options, that you will die to any condibuild.

> >

> > Vitality i good against power and condi.

> > Toughness only against power, so why would i pick toughness?

> > Esp while scourge is still meta

> >

> > And tbh. That would change nothing.

> > Cause everyone else would run class cannon as well.

> > Do u rlly think you can survive thief burst?

> >

> > Sure u can activate shroud, but then ur lf is gone

> > And if you dont activate shroud, you will die.

> I play the builds I am posting here in this forum on a daily basis and with success against way above average players. That's something you can't say about yourself. All you do all day is complain about necro - over and over again. And there is a lot of theoycrafting in your posts which is just wrong and shows your lack of understanding of game mechanics. You would have noticed that if you actually would play necro on a high skill level.

>

> Following your post history I ask myself why you play the class at all as you seem to be pretty bad at it since you don't seem to understrand the necro's mechanical characteristics and how to use them properly.

>

> Sorry but remarks from you can't be taken serious.

>

 

Its funny. I could say the same about you. Wasnt that you who said that dagger is a good weapon?

 

MegaLoL

 

Sure, sometimes i exaggerate a bit. But if people dont do that, nothing will change.

 

Sure i cannot say, that im legend rank with reaper.

But i think u arent either.

And u know why im not legend? Because i hate the pvp in this game. Wvw is fine, because you can build whatever stats you like.

But in spvp you are forced to play bad stat combinations.

 

I already told ya in another post: come fight me. Id like to learn from you. If there is something i can learn from you.

But i guess u are just afraid of loosing, cause u didnt answer it

[Carighan.6758]

There's nothing truly wrong with Power Reaper, as far as playing it if you enjoy it.

 

Caveats:

* Your traits are kind of a mess because they don't align with the idea behind your spec much. Plus their balance is off. However, this goes for most traitlines in the game actually, just to a (slightly) lesser degree.

* Players will try to hate on you. This is a sad reality of the fact that while yes Power Reaper **is** weaker in the specific context of highest-end raiding, the gap has become such a meme that by now everyone thinks it's unusably bad despite only being marginally worse than plenty other specs.

* You will **absolutely** destroy non-raid content and feel bad leaving nothing for anyone else.

[Yamedo.2561]

listen... they keep nerfing and buffing necro, more nerfs than buffs, and i've had it, i quit gw2 like last year or something. i quit when scourge got nerfed, and power scourge became completely useless. prenerf i was on top of the world, downing them hydra things in seconds. now that there's little to no power scaling and less hits, being a power scourge is trash, and being a power reaper is again the best option other than condition scourge for damage. i hated that nerf, that nerf was the sole reason i can never go back to gw2. let me be clear, necromancer was feeling subpar to me until scourge came out, even as a power reaper, i still couldn't compete with top warrior dps. when scourge came out, i was a happy little girl who just got a new dog and some bubblegum icecream. scourge nerf hit, and it was like that little girl's parents got divorced, and the mother got kicked out of the house, and the dog died because of a car accident, and all the cows died from a plague created from a laboratory that the dad works in. in this analogy, i am the little girl, anet is the dad, necro is the mother, the dog is the class, and the cows are my hopes and dreams.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Power scourge still dominates WvW and sPvP and overall the spec is completely defining the current meta though.

 

There's only ever going to be one optimal DPS elite spec. Necro's DPS number failings are a bigger issue that is more or less pertinent to how PvE works and how encounter design actively punishes what necros bring to the table most of the time. That's just the hard truth of the matter no matter how you look at it. In PvP and WvW, Scourge is still completely and totally overpowered.

[Omnicron.2467]

> @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

>

> Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

>

> PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

>

> PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

>

> WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

>

> Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

 

I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> >

> > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> >

> > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> >

> > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> >

> > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> >

> > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

>

> I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

 

Power scourge is pretty bad for pve. It has a nice spike. But thats it.

I only got to 22-23k dps on golem with realistic buffs.

 

Also i think playing power scourge in wvw is pretty bad after the last patch. More cd on f5 definetly hurt.

It hurt more the power than the condi-builds.

If you wanna have good spikes and okayish chip-dmg play cele right now.

If you are okay with not so high spikes and want more sustained dmg go trailblaizer or a trailblaizer vipers mix (i actually mixed in grieving and it worked fine as well. Trailblaizers till 25k health and 2.5k armor, rest grieving)

 

But if you have a good zerk, even power scourge is pretty good. Enemies wont die from your bomb alone, but if there is like 3 more people laying down their spike on the same spot, you eill be pretty successfull every 30 seconds in downlng at least 5 players

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> >

> > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> >

> > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> >

> > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> >

> > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> >

> > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

>

> I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

 

above 50% i get like 26k

below 50% its about 31k

 

that is very minmaxed already (with realistic buffs). only missing +5 infusions.

some grieving reaper did 27.5k lately... a hybrid so to say

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> > >

> > > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> > >

> > > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> > >

> > > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> > >

> > > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> > >

> > > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

> >

> > I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

>

> above 50% i get like 26k

> below 50% its about 31k

>

> that is very minmaxed already (with realistic buffs). only missing +5 infusions.

> some grieving reaper did 27.5k lately... a hybrid so to say

>

 

Video pls. Or log.

 

27.5 is pretty bad.... and i dont believe that 26 or even 31k is possible on power scourge. Well i was missing almost all the power infusions and i did my test before last balance patch. But nothing changed in pve for necros

[Aetatis.5418]

oh we are on scourge meanwhile? the thread implied its reaper. nvm then. no clue abt power scourge

[Omnicron.2467]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> > >

> > > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> > >

> > > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> > >

> > > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> > >

> > > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> > >

> > > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

> >

> > I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

>

> Power scourge is pretty bad for pve. It has a nice spike. But thats it.

> I only got to 22-23k dps on golem with realistic buffs.

>

> Also i think playing power scourge in wvw is pretty bad after the last patch. More cd on f5 definetly hurt.

> It hurt more the power than the condi-builds.

> If you wanna have good spikes and okayish chip-dmg play cele right now.

> If you are okay with not so high spikes and want more sustained dmg go trailblaizer or a trailblaizer vipers mix (i actually mixed in grieving and it worked fine as well. Trailblaizers till 25k health and 2.5k armor, rest grieving)

>

> But if you have a good zerk, even power scourge is pretty good. Enemies wont die from your bomb alone, but if there is like 3 more people laying down their spike on the same spot, you eill be pretty successfull every 30 seconds in downlng at least 5 players

 

I was asking specifically about Reaper, but thanks :)

[ReaverKane.7598]

Depending on game mode, intensity and difficulty, **EVERYTHING IS VIABLE**!

Power Reaper and Condi Reaper are both fun classes to play, are pretty great for Open World PvE, and fairly decent for Low Tier instanced Content (Dungeons and low tier fractals).

Can be used in Raids, as long as you're playing with friends, and the group is ready to incorporate your gameplay and compensate some of what Reaper is lacking.

For PvP it's not bad, but it's not great. The design for Reaper failed a bit to deliver, which makes the class ponderous and not as heavy hitting as it should. But its a fun class to play, i've won several 4v1's with Reaper back when it wasn't gutted to oblivion, but nowadays, and especially for current Meta and Necro hate, it's not great.

 

All in all, pick what you like, as long as you have fun with it. If you're pugging, i'd suggest taking Guardian, it's probably the best balanced class in the game, and has managed to be always relevant in most metas.

 

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > > @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> > > >

> > > > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> > > >

> > > > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> > > >

> > > > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> > > >

> > > > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> > > >

> > > > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

> > >

> > > I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

> >

> > above 50% i get like 26k

> > below 50% its about 31k

> >

> > that is very minmaxed already (with realistic buffs). only missing +5 infusions.

> > some grieving reaper did 27.5k lately... a hybrid so to say

> >

>

> Video pls. Or log.

>

> 27.5 is pretty bad.... and i dont believe that 26 or even 31k is possible on power scourge. Well i was missing almost all the power infusions and i did my test before last balance patch. But nothing changed in pve for necros

 

video... here we go

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHaT4_su3NM

thanks to sublimatio

 

its slightly off of what i mentioned (i forgot that alacrtity got changed since my last golem tests). but translates to ~24k dps above 50% health -> and ~31k dps below 50% health. like it or not.

and i can almost reproduce those numbers.

and still reaper - since Omnicron.2467 asked for reaper numbers

 

edit: what puts necro ahead in slightly disorganized groups (one or two missed dodges is already slighty disorganized) is the fact, that you dont lose all your dps due to the axe - expecially in fractals. you dodge or avoid mechanics and still have a "decent" weapon to do dmg on range (condi got scepter ofc), if you have to. ... while waiting/going back to melee.

(and pls dont compare it to weaver...!)

hence its totaly fine to do t4 fractals. you wont do speed records, but very comfortable runs

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> > > >

> > > > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> > > >

> > > > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> > > >

> > > > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> > > >

> > > > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> > > >

> > > > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

> > >

> > > I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

> >

> > Power scourge is pretty bad for pve. It has a nice spike. But thats it.

> > I only got to 22-23k dps on golem with realistic buffs.

> >

> > Also i think playing power scourge in wvw is pretty bad after the last patch. More cd on f5 definetly hurt.

> > It hurt more the power than the condi-builds.

> > If you wanna have good spikes and okayish chip-dmg play cele right now.

> > If you are okay with not so high spikes and want more sustained dmg go trailblaizer or a trailblaizer vipers mix (i actually mixed in grieving and it worked fine as well. Trailblaizers till 25k health and 2.5k armor, rest grieving)

> >

> > But if you have a good zerk, even power scourge is pretty good. Enemies wont die from your bomb alone, but if there is like 3 more people laying down their spike on the same spot, you eill be pretty successfull every 30 seconds in downlng at least 5 players

>

> I was asking specifically about Reaper, but thanks :)

 

Oh sorry. Then i did get something wrong^^

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Omnicron.2467" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > I main a power reaper and here's my 2 cents on the matter:

> >

> > Fractals? Definitely viable. If you get a good rotation down, maximize usage of wells and shroud skills, you will be doing 10k+ easy . I do T4's every day on my power reaper and I often am the top dps. I'll grant you, people who do fracs don't go in with raid builds and indeed some are incompetent. But point is, if you are competent and know your class and its skills and how to use them then you will be fine.

> >

> > PvE? Everything under raids is fine. Now I have used power reaper in raids, but it is mostly with friends. I am so used to the rotation that I have a better time keeping good damage on reaper than on scourge. But, yes, power reaper has the lowest dps ceiling of all for raiding.

> >

> > PvP? You know, ever since they nerfed scourge, I find power reaper more viable as it is not insta bombed with millions of condis. It is the uber-pvp-king that other classes can be? No. But with clever and strategic use, can be very good.

> >

> > WvW? Hate this mode. Don't play it outside of when I need Gift of Battle.

> >

> > Ultimately, as others have said, if you enjoy the class roll with it because if you have the fervor for it, you'll make it work :)

>

> I'd love to get your DPS numbers. It seems fairly viable to me with all the wells and fields you can put down and all the skills that do bonus damage Vs low hp. Have you done a DPS test on a golem? How different would the numbers be above and below 50% HP?

 

Well on the golem I reached 26.7k which is the power reaper benchmark but that's with a different build than the one I use for T4 as it is more focused on damage and uses Soul Reaping for the extra 5% dmg over Blood Magic. In fracs, depending on team comp, I can go anywhere from 12k to 25k on a boss using the well build.