The problem with GW2's recent story-telling, in my opinion. (some spoilers)

[papercrown.9248]

I will admit that the story telling has gotten progressively better since the game launched, and so far PoF has the best dialogue and modern GW2 lore related stuff; however, there are two things that bother me greatly about the personal story and the character you play as.

 

Post Heart of Thorns, as a Sylvari, I wanted the option to forgive or understand Caithe. Instead, the Sylvari player character treats her as if the player themselves were not Sylvari. There was a huge disconnect and I could **_not_** enjoy the story on my old main. It felt so... wrong. Of course, maybe the option for every race to forgive or try to understand Caithe sooner could have been implemented with just an extra string of voiced dialogue; but this feels most sorely neglected when you are playing as a Sylvari yourself. I think one bit of dialogue even has Caithe talk to the Sylvari player as if they weren't a Sylvari, when mentioning and explaining the Pale Tree!

 

Now, on to PoF. As a GW veteran, I personally loved the lore about the human gods, and I'm disappointed that (as a human) I do not appear to have the option of agreeing with Kasmeer. I know, I get it - a human god has done eff'd up and revealed himself to be an a**, but I would like to point out he is the god of WAR. He is the last deity I would expect to be understanding, kind, or even approachable; and I put Grenth right beside him with approachability in mind. However, just because one god is a jerk doesn't mean my human character has to lose faith in all of the others. Again, we are presented with a lack of choice when choice should be offered for the race we are playing as.

 

I know, this also doesn't mean the other gods haven't turned into jerks and it also doesn't mean some humans wouldn't have their faith as a whole shaken or removed, but at the same time Arenanet is ignoring the fact that the human player character MIGHT want to share in Kasmeer's hope. I bring this up for the sake of immersion. I know it would cost more to add these things in, but they are such small things that the cost of adding them can not be argued on the same level as, say, adding a zone or adding more items to the gem store!

 

My character, in my head, is hoping that Melandru hasn't turned her back. My character would certainly also hope that Kormir was still listening, too. And Dwayna, and Lyssa. The stories about the human gods from the original GW are sprinkled into the game here and there in the form of interactable objects, and I find it hard to believe our human characters would just entirely give up and talk to Kasmeer like they're trying to censor themselves around a religious person - because that is what they're doing and I've made it clear I don't like the lack of an option to NOT do that and just share in Kasmeer's hope. It doesn't sit well with me.

 

Anyway, that's just my thoughts and my opinion. Other than that, I'm enjoying the expansion so far, I just ... cringe... when I have to talk to anyone about the gods in general and my character reacts like a doodie trying not to doodie.

 

(Er, sorry if this is in the wrong place. I thought it might fit "lore" since I didn't see a forum section about storytelling, and I'm talking about lore related things.)

[Zenith.7301]

My sylvari doesn't talk like a sylvari either in this xpac.

 

They created this singular voice for the commander, and discarded race from it. You are this sassy, diligent leader of men unconcerned with anything but Tyria. When my sylvari character told Ogden that "his people" take care of their matters, I cringed. I AM OGDEN'S PEOPLE. I AM DURMAND PRIORY. MY CONCERN IS NOT JUST A DRAGON OR BALTHAZAR. My concern is my mother tree who was recently unconscious, no accounting has been done for the aftermath of Mordremoth on sylvari. I feel completely detached from my character background.

 

Which goes against everything that my Durmand Priory sylvari scholar stands for. I'm supposed to be curious and unassuming. Chivalrous. Instead I feel most character dialogues are trying way too hard at quips left and right.

 

I do not want a series of one liners and constant quips between Rytlock and Canach. Really, it's annoying. Stop trying so hard.

[Ebonblade.6230]

My Charr is just so friendly and understanding.

 

I hate it :c

[AESOkami.1072]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> My sylvari doesn't talk like a sylvari either in this xpac.

>

> They created this singular voice for the commander, and discarded race from it. You are this sassy, diligent leader of men unconcerned with anything but Tyria. When my sylvari character told Ogden that "his people" take care of their matters, I cringed. I AM OGDEN'S PEOPLE. I AM DURMAND PRIORY. MY CONCERN IS NOT JUST A DRAGON OR BALTHAZAR. My concern is my mother tree who was recently unconscious, no accounting has been done for the aftermath of Mordremoth on sylvari. I feel completely detached from my character background.

>

> Which goes against everything that my Durmand Priory sylvari scholar stands for. I'm supposed to be curious and unassuming. Chivalrous. Instead I feel most character dialogues are trying way too hard at quips left and right.

>

> I do not want a series of one liners and constant quips between Rytlock and Canach. Really, it's annoying. Stop trying so hard.

 

Agreed.

Especially since my main is a sylvari ranger who I roleplay as being a strict yet caring explorer who is going through PTSD from the Mordremoth events. Yet I couldn't see her doing or saying most of the things that your character is forced to do/say throughout the story.

 

Here's a tip for Arenanet's writers: Having your characters say a bunch of sassy quips does not automatically make them interesting or relatable.

[Rognik.2579]

As much as I would like in-depth and varied story threads for all the races, it's just not practical. ArenaNet could probably spend 5 years writing out the next storyline with alternate lines depending on your character background, including the now-discarded temperament mechanic, and people will still probably find some way to complain about it (other than why did it take so long). It'd be great to have some option for human character to indicate if they are devout or "heretical" (ie. not that religious), but none of the personal story allows you to reflect that, and adding it in somewhere would either mean humans get a special scene just for them or it's an interaction that some players might just miss anyway. Honestly, I can't think of how they could allow that without dragging the whole thing down.

For sylvari, it probably feels like a huge step backwards after having so much of Heart of Thorns be directly reflected in your sylvari character. More likes of dialogue change if you're a plant, and you constantly hear Mordremoth's voice rather than this ominous, unintelligible rumbling throughout the storyline. To go from that level of attention to Season 3's pigeonholing plotline must definitely be jarring. The interactions with Caithe probably could've been worded better, but it would have taken a ton more work to ensure her lines match up with whatever sylvari might have said to her. Most of the racially-divergent dialogue is a single line that is effectively the same, but given the racial flair. My favourite example, and one of the first I found in Heart of Thorns, was while all the other races were confused on what Rata Novus was, my asura goes, "Can it really be?" like he just found out Santa IS real and is allowing us into his North Pole workshop. Taimi's following line, explaining how it's the lost Rata filled with asura who didn't want to live above ground in Rata Sum, fits in perfectly with both variations without sounding condescending to either path. More of that kind of variation, and less of the kind where my asura gets treated like a lab assistant when I'm probably just as smart as any of the asura working the field.

Oh, and sorry about your charr. I think he (she?) has just been hanging around humans for too long and its rubbing off. We need a good old dose of Charr Homelands to fix that.

[draxynnic.3719]

Doing alternate lines for every single race probably is going a bit too far. However, I think it is reasonable for the writers to check over the generic lines and ask 'Does this make sense for every race?' and change the lines for the races it doesn't make sense for. Which is generally likely to be one, maybe two races.

 

As you noted yourself, HoT had a lot of special stuff for sylvari. PoF was the opportunity to have more special stuff for humans, for whom this could be a crisis of faith as much as it is for Kasmeer.

[Midarc.6091]

It might result in more workload, but when the game lets us play out those differences in our characters it's one of the most immersive elements they can be include.

Being able to shape things, even only slightly, leads to a greater investment in the characters on my part and I'm sure it's the same for others.

 

I have noticed some dialogue changes in the current expat, in the sense of npcs recognising my species and commenting on it occasionally but it's non interactive and infrequent.

Can't remember the last time I saw a 'demeanour' option in dialogue (noble,charming,aggressive).

The speech at the end was done interactively and that gave a chance to act 'in character'.

 

I hope we see a return to the personal story level of interactivity, even if it's only peripheral elements of the story that we can shape.

[Athrenn.9468]

I don't think that the problem is recent by any means, but I do think that it's quite simple when you boil it down: Guild Wars 2 is trying to be an HBO TV show.

 

Here's a quote from [an old Colin Johanson interview](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2 " an old Colin Johanson interview"):

 

> By its conclusion, Season One will have been developing for 15 months. What ArenaNet wanted to create was a complex plot that kept people theorising and speculating in the same way a show like A Game of Thrones (and the book series A Song of Fire and Ice beyond that) does - to have "people realise what the power of having a video game that can tell a story like a television show is".

 

Any MMO that tries to imitate the success of a popular TV show is doing it wrong. An MMO is a video game, and that is a very different medium for storytelling. I don't know if their company's mindset has changed since Colin's time as Game Director, but I think that a lot of it has seeped through into the current Living World story structure. People do not play video games, especially MMOs, to get the TV show experience. (That's what TV is for.) I really hope that the writers have learned their lesson from this failure of perspective because it _is_ a huge failure when your company's Game Director tries to steer the direction of their company away from where it should be going. A team that is specifically designed to be optimally efficient at producing MMOs is going to produce subpar television drama and there's nothing you can do about it.

[JVJD.4912]

> @Ebonblade.6230 said:

> My Charr is just so friendly and understanding.

>

> I hate it :c

 

Though i am not inline with the character traits this player would prefer

 

But yes we do no get to choose our characters personality which is kinda immersion breaking

[Zaklex.6308]

> @Midarc.6091 said:

> It might result in more workload, but when the game lets us play out those differences in our characters it's one of the most immersive elements they can be include.

> Being able to shape things, even only slightly, leads to a greater investment in the characters on my part and I'm sure it's the same for others.

>

> I have noticed some dialogue changes in the current expat, in the sense of npcs recognising my species and commenting on it occasionally but it's non interactive and infrequent.

> Can't remember the last time I saw a 'demeanour' option in dialogue (noble,charming,aggressive).

> The speech at the end was done interactively and that gave a chance to act 'in character'.

>

> I hope we see a return to the personal story level of interactivity, even if it's only peripheral elements of the story that we can shape.

 

The 'demeanor' option was removed long ago even though it still exists in the personal story, that is the only place it exists at all in the game and I believe it no longer even functions as you might think(though it shows you'll increase a trait nothing actually happens anymore).

 

Even though our characters are still called Commander, we're technically no longer Commander of the Pact now but the Commander of Dragon's Watch, minus that whiny Norn who needs a smack down to get his head back in place and not that inflated opinion of himself he got from his mothers death. I don't know but apparently most people just are to afraid to do what it takes regardless of the consequences when it comes to dealing with something as powerful as taking down a God or leaving behind a supposedly unkillable Lich(if he's really immune to death then I'm going to have to lock him back up again permanently this time).

 

Everyone however is entitled to their opinion, and these types of posts are really just someones opinion, even mine.

[Rognik.2579]

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> The 'demeanor' option was removed long ago even though it still exists in the personal story, that is the only place it exists at all in the game and I believe it no longer even functions as you might think(though it shows you'll increase a trait nothing actually happens anymore).

Actually, the demeanor options still arise periodically, but very few places have a special response for being of a certain demeanor. But there have been new demeanor options added since the system was removed, like how you respond to Phlunt in S3E5 (although only one path gave a meaningful result). I'm not sure if selecting the options actually changes the demeanor since that stat is now hidden (like furiously tearing down Caudecus's posters).

[Coulter.2315]

My human character is being forced to act in horrible ways, turning on one of my gods, saying to Rytlock "I'll be sure to return your *STOLEN HUMAN SWORD* later, perhaps you can pose for a picture with it next to the shattered Stormcaller you fucks display in your capital!" looking at Kas like she's an idiot for having faith (I played GW1 I know for a fact the gods are real and have spoken with their agents, including Balthazar's).

 

Also having to constantly talk about the races needing to come together as if we're all human; the Norn aren't a "come together" sort of people, the Charr are warbeasts and should be exterminated before they turn on us later, the Asura would gladly push all of humanity through a meat grinder to see how many bodies it takes to blunt the blade and the Sylvari are aparently one sick tree away from becoming sadists. [i think all these traits make them interesting races btw, I love they have these aspects - but they don't, they're all just humans with a costume on]

 

I understand that Anet wanted to give people lots of choices of looks and can deliver story better as a line but they have butchered the core races of Tyria in that endeavour and it makes me sad.

 

I want to march on Ascalon and purge every last Charr from our home but instead have to have witty dialogue with the Tribune of the Blood Legion while spitting on my own gods.