dusanyu.4057 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Are we playing the same game? the gods have been gone seance year 0 so them staying gone nothing new there Them saying "Its all you dude" they did the same in gates of madness, Sorry the human gods were failures and all of the problems in GW1 came from there mess ups Tyria is better without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaken.6801 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @dusanyu.4057 said: > Are we playing the same game? the gods have been gone seance year 0 so them staying gone nothing new there > Them saying "Its all you dude" they did the same in gates of madness, Sorry the human gods were failures and all of the problems in GW1 came from there mess ups Tyria is better without them. They had their own jobs to do. Yeah, they could have helped more, but we were enough. If Abaddon got free, they might have helped, but overall they were very reluctant to do so, because of the last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killerbot.8645 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Farzo.8410 said: > > @Fenom.9457 said: > > It's possible it's a trick so we're surprised if they show up again. And you'll be even happier > > If anything I hope for the sake of this game's franchise and overall lore you're right... > > What ArenaNet did with the gods this expansion pack is like building a whole city, and then 10 years later remove the pillars which were the buildings. Pretending to call it a city when it's just one empty storehouse left. > > You don't simply _remove_ the pillars of the whole Guild Wars story because you want to focus on something else, because it's "new." > > The gods were tied in to so much, making them leave permanently is a huge middle finger. i don't really understand you, the gods have been inactive & gone for a really long time already, Kormir lingered behind and did absolutely nothing(shocking, i know) before also leaving Tyria. the gods were irrelevant and i'm glad we actually know they're really gone now, i've played GW1 and played GW2 since the start and i really don't feel an enormous loss knowing that the gods are gone, they already did very little in GW1, they did nothing in GW2. the story of GW wasn't even built on just the gods alone, it just seemed that way because we only had proper access to the perspective of very biased humans. also about the ending, it was you, a dragon slayer, with Sohothin against a severely weakened, fallen ''God'', the fight was great and a better boss fight than Core + HoT battles combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farzo.8410 Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Killerbot.8645 said: > > @Farzo.8410 said: > > > @Fenom.9457 said: > > > It's possible it's a trick so we're surprised if they show up again. And you'll be even happier > > > > If anything I hope for the sake of this game's franchise and overall lore you're right... > > > > What ArenaNet did with the gods this expansion pack is like building a whole city, and then 10 years later remove the pillars which were the buildings. Pretending to call it a city when it's just one empty storehouse left. > > > > You don't simply _remove_ the pillars of the whole Guild Wars story because you want to focus on something else, because it's "new." > > > > The gods were tied in to so much, making them leave permanently is a huge middle finger. > > i don't really understand you, the gods have been inactive & gone for a really long time already, Kormir lingered behind and did absolutely nothing(shocking, i know) before also leaving Tyria. > > the gods were irrelevant and i'm glad we actually know they're really gone now, i've played GW1 and played GW2 since the start and i really don't feel an enormous loss knowing that the gods are gone, they already did very little in GW1, they did nothing in GW2. > > the story of GW wasn't even built on just the gods alone, it just seemed that way because we only had proper access to the perspective of very biased humans. > > also about the ending, it was you, a dragon slayer, with Sohothin against a severely weakened, fallen ''God'', the fight was great and a better boss fight than Core + HoT battles combined. The problem for me is _how_ they make them go away. It just doesn't make any sense and just opens up even more questions. The writing on that part was just full of holes where people end up filling the holes in themselves with "answers" that just opens up even more questions. The last fight was well done, but stupid lorewise. If he's so weakened then why can't Kormir help? Oh, because if gods fight other gods there will be cataclysmic consequences... but oh wait, he's underpowered and fallen! So there's not going to be any consequences. But wait, he grabbed power from bloodstone and two elder dragons! He must be powered up! No wait, we single handily defeat him with a powered up sword. The writing is silly, and it just massively contradicts itself back and forth the more you think the story through and what Kormir said. It's _Kormir_, she's from Tyria, it's her home! She abandon it so easily! Are we going to argue now that Kormir abandons it because she's a goddess and have some super knowledge about the universe that makes Tyria less significant? That she doesn't even care about her old home anymore that she once helped to save? It's just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethorus.9231 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Best part was Kormir lecturing Rythlock for releasing Balthazar, when in Guild Wars Nightfall, she awakened the Apocrypha and read from it. L O L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hynoris.3684 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I share the sentiment here that after all the hype balth shouldn't fall so easily to a mortal and a baby dragon, all the other bigger nemesis got some kind of build up to be beaten like Airship confetti cannons or a mind battle using the power of friendship. But nope you just go there with a glorified blowtorch and wreck a guy who is the personification of war and conflict in single combat.The Player character must be a saiyajin to get such a power boost after getting his ass beaten and making a recovery. But my bet is that after balth reignited the Sohothin with his power he made himself weak to it because Tyria works on some sort of bizarre pokemon logic where you are weak to the stuff you use. Too bad my old uncle with flatulence did not have that weakness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenagin.3529 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Kormir already stayed behind. We don't know for how long, but as God of Knowledge she probably knew we would come. She waited to help us one last time. While the others were already gone. And I don't think there is such a thing as leaving forever. They went to another place in the mists. We just can't reach them from the portal in the Tomb of Primeval Kings anymore. But my main question is, who took the powers from Balthazar when he got stripped of his powers. History tells us there must be a replacement, like Grent usurping Dhuum and Kormir usurping Abbadon. Maybe Menzies took the place of Balthazar? I hope this is not just another dead end in lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farzo.8410 Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Kenagin.3529 said: > Kormir already stayed behind. We don't know for how long, but as God of Knowledge she probably knew we would come. She waited to help us one last time. While the others were already gone. And I don't think there is such a thing as leaving forever. They went to another place in the mists. We just can't reach them from the portal in the Tomb of Primeval Kings anymore. > > But my main question is, who took the powers from Balthazar when he got stripped of his powers. History tells us there must be a replacement, like Grent usurping Dhuum and Kormir usurping Abbadon. Maybe Menzies took the place of Balthazar? I hope this is not just another dead end in lore. Aurene and Kralkatorrik sucked some power in from what we saw. There was no one else there to take the power. So... nobody I guess is the new god of war and fire. It just feels incredibly strange to be blessed by Balthazar and yell stuff about Balthazar when you use your abilities when he's downright dead and gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARIAKAS.3658 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Oh great. Haven't finished the story yet, but reading here, my worst fears are confirmed and I am just sad for all the time, for the lore and the game as such. This is not original, it is not "super cool, let's kill a god", it's just that ANet chose to f*ck with what attached - at least me - to this game. It's degrading and embarrassing to have to play a character who does - this. Moreover, I never liked Kas until they included her faith, showing how she hoped everything would turn out alright - and then they just smash it. It's a crude and clumsy story, that could have been so much more... They could have easily replaced big B. with his brother Brother Menzies, for example. I thought it was a cool concept to combine those fantasy-elements together with gods and magic with steam- and a little cyperpunk technics, showing those concepts work together... but no, go an ANet - f*ck the lore. It's your story after all - it's just not mine or my hero's, anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenagin.3529 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Farzo.8410 said: > > @Kenagin.3529 said: > > Kormir already stayed behind. We don't know for how long, but as God of Knowledge she probably knew we would come. She waited to help us one last time. While the others were already gone. And I don't think there is such a thing as leaving forever. They went to another place in the mists. We just can't reach them from the portal in the Tomb of Primeval Kings anymore. > > > > But my main question is, who took the powers from Balthazar when he got stripped of his powers. History tells us there must be a replacement, like Grent usurping Dhuum and Kormir usurping Abbadon. Maybe Menzies took the place of Balthazar? I hope this is not just another dead end in lore. > > Aurene and Kralkatorrik sucked some power in from what we saw. > > There was no one else there to take the power. > > So... nobody I guess is the new god of war and fire. > > It just feels incredibly strange to be blessed by Balthazar and yell stuff about Balthazar when you use your abilities when he's downright dead and gone. You forget an important point. Balthazar was no longer a "God". His powers were stripped from him. Still powerfull but no longer god level. He absorbed a bloodstone's magic and that of two elder dragons (And some of Kralkatorrik). That was the magic that was released when we killed him. At least that's how i see it. If he was still "God" I don't see Kralkatorrik or Aurene become the next God of War. We were the only other available host. My point is, they shouldn't try to get away with a god or former god being killed without someone to follow him up. That is how it always went till this point. Maybe the future will tell us, but right know i'm a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > They want to remove human supremacy from the old GW1, so they want to erase the gods completely. Make them utterly irrelevant so we can be this cosmopolitan kumbaya peace pipe circle of the races getting all perfectly along together. What an outrageous butchering they've done of Balthazar's character. It frees them to tell their race neutral stories without worrying how a story with the gods might clash with their precious charr narratives. > > Their solutions don't even make sense. The gods want to avoid conflict with the dragons to avoid the destruction of Tyria, but they leave Tyria on their own at the mercy of the awakened elder dragons. It's such a stupid storyline. > > They basically made Balthazar into Abbadon 2.0. > > And in the process make the "commander" this supernatural demigod capable of smiting gods and elder dragons on his own. It's a trope in MMO's nowadays where they feel the need to make the player character the most powerful person in the room. I don't like it. > > What's laughable is they said the clash within the gods would destroy the entire area, and yet Balthazar was secretly vanquished and imprisoned without worldly consequences in the mists. > > Much like with the Mursaat, the writers are in a hurry to bury all GW1 story threads so their can make their brand new ones. Lazarus the Dire, more powerful than any of the raid bosses, summarily killed in a short living story episode battle. And the mursaat are erased just like that. > > Kormir's voice was horrendous. That does not sound like Kormir, at all. Kormir's voice was older and more gravely; this one sounds like female human NPC #2645374 I would have written something like this myself - but you already did it far better than I could have. I personally dislike the new aspect of faction and racial interaction in GW2's narrative. The "we're all a happy family now" feels forced and unrealistic. I can live with alliances between races - but there's no tension there, there's no "I'm only in this because I have no choice but also permanently skeptical of all others and always ready to turn" - you know - like things would actually be if this was even half-believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killerbot.8645 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Farzo.8410 said: > > @Killerbot.8645 said: > > > @Farzo.8410 said: > > > > @Fenom.9457 said: > > > > It's possible it's a trick so we're surprised if they show up again. And you'll be even happier > > > > > > If anything I hope for the sake of this game's franchise and overall lore you're right... > > > > > > What ArenaNet did with the gods this expansion pack is like building a whole city, and then 10 years later remove the pillars which were the buildings. Pretending to call it a city when it's just one empty storehouse left. > > > > > > You don't simply _remove_ the pillars of the whole Guild Wars story because you want to focus on something else, because it's "new." > > > > > > The gods were tied in to so much, making them leave permanently is a huge middle finger. > > > > i don't really understand you, the gods have been inactive & gone for a really long time already, Kormir lingered behind and did absolutely nothing(shocking, i know) before also leaving Tyria. > > > > the gods were irrelevant and i'm glad we actually know they're really gone now, i've played GW1 and played GW2 since the start and i really don't feel an enormous loss knowing that the gods are gone, they already did very little in GW1, they did nothing in GW2. > > > > the story of GW wasn't even built on just the gods alone, it just seemed that way because we only had proper access to the perspective of very biased humans. > > > > also about the ending, it was you, a dragon slayer, with Sohothin against a severely weakened, fallen ''God'', the fight was great and a better boss fight than Core + HoT battles combined. > > The problem for me is _how_ they make them go away. It just doesn't make any sense and just opens up even more questions. The writing on that part was just full of holes where people end up filling the holes in themselves with "answers" that just opens up even more questions. > > The last fight was well done, but stupid lorewise. If he's so weakened then why can't Kormir help? Oh, because if gods fight other gods there will be cataclysmic consequences... but oh wait, he's underpowered and fallen! So there's not going to be any consequences. > > But wait, he grabbed power from bloodstone and two elder dragons! He must be powered up! > > No wait, we single handily defeat him with a powered up sword. > > The writing is silly, and it just massively contradicts itself back and forth the more you think the story through and what Kormir said. > > It's _Kormir_, she's from Tyria, it's her home! She abandon it so easily! Are we going to argue now that Kormir abandons it because she's a goddess and have some super knowledge about the universe that makes Tyria less significant? That she doesn't even care about her old home anymore that she once helped to save? > > It's just silly. > Her journal in her secret sanctum actually does show us that she thinks Tyria is no longer her home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladish.3940 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 They could let player characters to become a god and choose to retire that character in epic way, or continue playing as my own avatar (even if as the only worshiper)... kormir stole my spotlight once already... damn her... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I don't think that they're done with the gods entirely. Too much brought in and too many comments of ArenaNet "knowing they'd return to the gods" for this to be it, IMO. Especially when we have the unanswered questions of Balthazar's successor, fate of Menzies, fate of Dhuum, and where they're going. > @Johnny.1634 said: > > @Ayakaru.6583 said: > > did you hear nothing of the dialogue? > > the gods were already reluctantly absent in gw1 because their presence brought a lot more chaos than good, > > Yes I heard the dialogue, and its false.... anyone who played GW1 for a decent amount of time would know that. They had a lot of influence back then and would project themselves and lend us power very often. They had avatars who held influence. And PoF shows in both The Sanctum and the Domain of the Lost that the gods still have avatars and other servants to hold influence for them. The gods never once acted directly in GW1. > @Farzo.8410 said: > > @Kenagin.3529 said: > > Kormir already stayed behind. We don't know for how long, but as God of Knowledge she probably knew we would come. She waited to help us one last time. While the others were already gone. And I don't think there is such a thing as leaving forever. They went to another place in the mists. We just can't reach them from the portal in the Tomb of Primeval Kings anymore. > > > > But my main question is, who took the powers from Balthazar when he got stripped of his powers. History tells us there must be a replacement, like Grent usurping Dhuum and Kormir usurping Abbadon. Maybe Menzies took the place of Balthazar? I hope this is not just another dead end in lore. > > Aurene and Kralkatorrik sucked some power in from what we saw. > > There was no one else there to take the power. > > So... nobody I guess is the new god of war and fire. > > It just feels incredibly strange to be blessed by Balthazar and yell stuff about Balthazar when you use your abilities when he's downright dead and gone. Aurene and Kralkatorrik absorbed the power Balthazar got from the bloodstone, Jormag, and Primordus. Not his actual god of war powers. Balthazar was weakened to near mortal state when Rytlock found him. His original power had to go somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladish.3940 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Actually a lot of the god related material feels like a cop out to me. Do take what I write with a grain of salt as there is a fair amount of personal opinion there as well. Sorry if I repeat certain points that other people mentioned, these are just things that bother me personally. - I get that they are just all powerful mortals (if Kormyr could become a god, anyone can), and thus they retreated from facing dragons as to not to lose their power (sorry Kormir, I don't believe in your pathetic excuse of the "world would be destroyed," you just wanted to keep your power like the rest of them). - She implies that if they engaged Balthazaar things would be catastrophic... how? Wasn't Balthazaar stripped of his power? Even empowered, how is sending an army of mortals that will die by the thousands in the encounter (if player character wasn't "more powerful than universe itself") vs. having divine beings with more power in their little finger than all that mortal army, a better idea? I see a lapse of judgment there, or at least lack of logic. - If dragons are so powerful that even "gods" were afraid of them.... why have we beaten two of them relatively easily? One shot down by an airship and the other beaten to a pulp inside its own head... physically.... just made these sound that much more anticlimactic, and made me want to beat the crap out of Kormir right there and then just to take her power for myself. I am sure Commander would find far better uses for it than the gods "wasting it away". - If they were able to strip power off Balthazar, taking away his "godhood" what did they do wirt it? Did they took it themselves or is there another war god? And if they are able to do that, why they haven't done that to Abaddon in the first place? - Given that the scale of the continent we are on comparing to the rest of the planet, that's a lot of plant-wide apocalyptic problems we have condensed in essentially a tiny nook on a global scale (ALL of the elder dragons as well (former) city of the human gods...)... makes me wonder what sort of idyllic paradise the rest of the world is. I would undertand if we had to travel all over the world, or if we were facing one, or even just two dragon here, but we have all the dragons (that supposed to represent forces of entire planet), all the human "gods." Too much condensed into small of a place imho. - In Kormyr's journal she states that the gods are leaving because Tyria IS doomed. Since them leaving (with Kormir basically showing us middle finger and disappearing in front of us), would imply that our days are numbered regardless of what we do, and that this event is yet to come. - Is that sort of a lead into us exploring a planet/dimension in the mists of actual humans and where they came from, somewhere down the line (since we were brought here by the six)? Slowly it starts to feel like another World of Warcraft expansion rather than a Guild Wars game. - I hate how commander and everyone that never met Vlast before, or just never met him period, acts like Vlast dying was a big deal to them on a personal scale. Sorry but I don't know you. Thanks for the sacrifice and all, but I am just gonna move along. I was never even given a chance to develop any sort of emotional connection to him, all they did is used lazy writing to write off another GW1 reference, in what feels like another take on "we don't feel like writing about this crap no more," just like they did with Lazarus. Immortal Livia - Deus Ex definition? Explanation was "magic", that's it? Lazy and quite frankly, pathetic on all accords. On a personal note, at this point I couldn't care less about Tyria. All I want to do is to just find and beat the crap out of those wannabe gods. If I can take out primal being that they are afraid of.... I just can't feel anything for them other than anger and contempt. Like, there is no justification for the continued worship. So, props to Anet for making me feel something for them through what appears to me like, a lazy writing. I don't know, the entire implementation of gods in this expansion just feels rushed and badly written. I would have been a lot happier if they kept Lazarus as Lazarus and used him instead of Balthazar as a villain. He was actually split into many parts, trapped for centuries. Being resurrected with little power, and after failing to snake his way into the Commander's group, there would have been a tangible reason for Lazarus to do what Balthazaar did, while Balthazaar feels like... I dunno, out of place to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > Granted, that still leaves plenty of questions: why aren't the gods evacuating Tyria, the way they apparently did to bring humans here in the first place? It's possible that they believe Tyria is lost, but they're going to wait until 'belief' becomes 'certainty' before they evacuate. Or they have human populations seeded elsewhere and thus the human population of Tyria doesn't matter overly much to them any more. Or they simply don't have anywhere to put any humans they did evacuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewsitine.3645 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I really hope they come back to the gods as there are similar questions that I want answered to which one of them being where did the humans come from. I agree with the others that the gods cannot interfere or else another disaster will happen is total bs since balthy still needed a kid dragon to deal damage to karl in order to claim it. I would have like a recalled to with how we defeated the two elder dragons by having a whole army of Tryia coming and use said army to defeat the god or atleast have more of my guildmates in dragon's watch to help me take him down since we are no where near the level of magic powers to him or any of the other powerful beings. I still think that the gods and dragons are equal in terms of strength with the dragons having an advantage of corruption and being able to consume any and all magic with more ease than the gods. This whole "dragons are beyond us" is what I interpret as they just don't want to complete the mess they created or follow through on their end of the deal with the forgotten to whatever they struck with to combat/ harmonize the elder dragons. As I stated before, I would love for the gods to come back maybe through history and revisiting the world library to get anwsers and chase after them to see where they went and talk to them just to repay the middle finger back at them. The writers seem to have set up and shown that there is tensions between the gods and they are not rubbing shoulders with each other so to speak given how the text in the library by komir said that one of the gods tease her for still trying to be "human." Just chasing them to their new hideout would be nice and a possible good way to close up holes or give more clarification as to the previous statements said by them. Thanks for reading and sorry in advanced if I am jumping from one place to the next while I hope it is not a bad wall of text, it is 2 in the morning for me which would be steam that has long since dissipated from my body. Good night all or morning. Edit: How do I make is so that it is just like the other long comments and not this small box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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