My tests on Condition based Mirage in raids (so far)

[Levetty.1279]

If we have to jump through all these hoops to make axe 2 good, maybe they should just increase the damage.

[Esplen.3940]

"All these hoops" is literally just moving while attacking.

[Toeofdoom.6152]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's super difficult to land - I just want to make tests easier to compare. If I lose 1k dps after switching a trait and have to wonder "was that because of the trait or because I messed up positioning?" that just makes it harder to figure out the best build.

[Esplen.3940]

That's the same with every build and rotation. When you're scrunching for the highest numbers possible, there are a ton of factors that will lower your damage. The traits and abilities provide a hard limit for your damage output, but it's up to you to reach it.

 

Even on a small golem, you should be able to get all 3 hits off without spending effort positioning. As long as you don't cast it in their hitbox, you're basically guaranteed to get all 3 hits off. If you're afraid that you won't, then you can always Jaunt onto them (which, coincidentally, guarantees all the whirls).

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Player error is a factor you can't simply ignore. If nobody can play perfectly enough to get the max DPS rotation, then the max DPS rotation might as well be fiction.

[Esplen.3940]

I agree completely, and max DPS rotations are fiction, but people like benchmarks to know how high you can reach, even if it's not realistic.

 

But there's a difference between a skill requiring a lot of effort to come out efficiently and not standing in a hitbox while pressing a button. This isn't like the Thief rotation where you need to land perfectly and animation cancel as much as you possibly can. You literally stand on the stack, press 2, and you'll hit. If you want to get fancy, you can Jaunt after you press the button. Wow.

 

The player error portion can be used as a reason if you want to do non-movement Axe2 (without Jaunt) but those are so hit or miss that they aren't worth the effort (unless you know there's terrain you can use it on and do so willingly). Without doing a detarget camera down Axe2, you'll still hit all 3 hits as long as you don't start inside (the center of) their hitbox.

[Zenith.7301]

Axe 2 needs the same evasion frames as death blossom, and axe 3 needs to respect terrain so it doesn't throw you into holes.

[Hot Boy.7138]

my biggest issue with condi axe mirage in raids is the ambush.

 

When anet released the elite spec info it all sounded so cool to me. Dodging in place to let attacks phase through me, that way i can keep up dps when dodging. But that's not what I got. As it really is, I have to dodge on CD for ambush skills so I can maximiize dps. I'm actually getting hit much more and taking more damage than before because I have no endurance left to actually use on evading attacks. It's not fun to me this way. They should have just made Ambush an F5 skill, and let me keep my dodges for actually dodging, if it was going to be like this.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> They should have just made Ambush an F5 skill, and let me keep my dodges for actually dodging, if it was going to be like this.

 

Ugh. I'd really hate this, because Mirage is **already** overloaded with too many individually interesting but totally nonfitting components. Adding yet another element to the mess just makes it even more complex, for no real gain in depth.

 

I think the duality with out cloak, wanting to use it for offense but also needing it for defense is pretty much the **only** thing they got right about Mirage. Somewhat. Most of the ambushes are so weak I wish I could disable them (don't need them on F5, just gone), because I prefer my AA chain not breaking for silly low hits.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

So I decided to test that idea I had for mirage shatter, as well as do a few more clone heavy tests. Unrealistic buffs, no food, against a large 4 million golem. I was... surprised by the result.

 

The first build is the standard sitting clone build: 29.2k DPS

Dueling 3/1/1, Chaos 1/2/3, Mirage 3/3/3. Axe + Pistol/Torch. Geomancy sigil,, two signets plus crystal sands and jaunt, etc. It's just qT's build but modified for clones.

The build works by summoning three clones, then using axe skills off cooldown. Spam ambushes whenever they are convenient.

 

Second build is my shatter build: 29.1k DPS

Dueling 3/1/1, Illusions 1/3/2, Mirage 1/3/3. Build is the same as above.

The build works by summoning clones, but shattering when Cry of Frustration is off cooldown and least one deception skill is up. Otherwise it functions the same as the other build.

 

Overall, the shatter build is much harder to play than the standard clone build. A shatter at the wrong time can kill your DPS, and you'll end up watching for the cooldowns to align. But, there is an advantage to this build: it has higher AoE damage and higher burst damage. Self-Deception combined with Jaunt, it is possible to go for a consecutive full power mind wrack + cry of frustration, which will cut down regular mobs fairly quickly. Although it is lacking the field on heal and the extra condition damage from the chaos line, if timed right Cry of Frustration drops 24 base confusion and 24 base torment out of thin air.

 

Against a big boss it's still worse than the phantasm build, but I'd like to throw it out there as a general use build.

[Photoloss.4817]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> So I decided to test that idea I had for mirage shatter, as well as do a few more clone heavy tests. Unrealistic buffs, no food, against a large 4 million golem. I was... surprised by the result.

>

> The first build is the standard sitting clone build: 29.2k DPS

> Dueling 3/1/1, Chaos 1/2/3, Mirage 3/3/3. Axe + Pistol/Torch. Geomancy sigil,, two signets plus crystal sands and jaunt, etc. It's just qT's build but modified for clones.

> The build works by summoning three clones, then using axe skills off cooldown. Spam ambushes whenever they are convenient.

>

> Second build is my shatter build: 29.1k DPS

> Dueling 3/1/1, Illusions 1/3/2, Mirage 1/3/3. Build is the same as above.

> The build works by summoning clones, but shattering when Cry of Frustration is off cooldown and least one deception skill is up. Otherwise it functions the same as the other build.

>

> Overall, the shatter build is much harder to play than the standard clone build. A shatter at the wrong time can kill your DPS, and you'll end up watching for the cooldowns to align. But, there is an advantage to this build: it has higher AoE damage and higher burst damage. Self-Deception combined with Jaunt, it is possible to go for a consecutive full power mind wrack + cry of frustration, which will cut down regular mobs fairly quickly. Although it is lacking the field on heal and the extra condition damage from the chaos line, if timed right Cry of Frustration drops 24 base confusion and 24 base torment out of thin air.

>

> Against a big boss it's still worse than the phantasm build, but I'd like to throw it out there as a general use build.

 

Sorry but you consider 29k _unrealistic_ with a 20s+ recharge time fit for "general use"? Plus it's largely melee and of course condi, which is not ideal for open world. Not completely trash tier but you'll have to pull those numbers with something like staff+sceptre/focus to impress anyone.

[Refia Montes.3205]

> @Photoloss.4817 said:

> Sorry but you consider 29k _unrealistic_ with a 20s+ recharge time fit for "general use"? Plus it's largely melee and of course condi, which is not ideal for open world. Not completely trash tier but you'll have to pull those numbers with something like staff+sceptre/focus to impress anyone.

 

I've done it with the same build, realistic buffs and food, gets 29.5k dps.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @Photoloss.4817 said:

>

> Sorry but you consider 29k _unrealistic_ with a 20s+ recharge time fit for "general use"? Plus it's largely melee and of course condi, which is not ideal for open world. Not completely trash tier but you'll have to pull those numbers with something like staff+sceptre/focus to impress anyone.

 

There's nothing wrong with melee condi in the open world. I've already done some running around with the build.

 

EDIT: Guess I'll explain this: the reason why I use unrealistic buffs is because I don't use food. To get these numbers I'll spend hours on the golem, and I'm not going to spend several gold on food for the test just for an indignant forumer to blow me off anyway.

[Photoloss.4817]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

>

> There's nothing wrong with melee condi in the open world. I've already done some running around with the build.

>

> EDIT: Guess I'll explain this: the reason why I use unrealistic buffs is because I don't use food. To get these numbers I'll spend hours on the golem, and I'm not going to spend several gold on food for the test just for an indignant forumer to blow me off anyway.

 

_Oh_, unrealistic but no food, got it. Melee condi has _a lot_ of issues in open world though. Can't tag event spawns, can't pull idle mobs from their group, long ramp (especially if you need to spawn clones first), tends to get murdered by upscaled champs if you slip up even a little. Still perfectly playable mind you but there definitely are easier and more versatile options.