Odik.4587 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > So you understand the reason behind the thought :-) not saying it is THE best way to say if a post is legut or not, but hey, I am all for more effective option/s. > Also I can only imagine the amount of post created after your play :-D I think i'm not caused nerf threads , like people calling out others for hacking but thats mostly not going beyond just saying that. Sadly its impossible to not allow people create threads xD We can discuss how to save OP from condi druids... Any idea which league it is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 The only thing that i don't like about stealth is that it should be a temporary "shield", while instead after its duration expires you have to search again your target instead having a "last target" macro ( or eventually the possibility to mantain your target on it ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > So you understand the reason behind the thought :-) not saying it is THE best way to say if a post is legut or not, but hey, I am all for more effective option/s. > > Also I can only imagine the amount of post created after your play :-D > I think i'm not caused nerf threads , like people calling out others for hacking but thats mostly not going beyond just saying that. Sadly its impossible to not allow people create threads xD > People still need to ask for advice and such, soo yeah. But a post with a silver/bronze badge asking for an advice will probably be received pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > O_O I can and did that a ton of times! Man, I really wish you could see the bange with divisions on the forum. It would probably explin alot.. People dying to condi DRUID and/or DE's DJ. Oh wait I got it. If you stand still then yes, you can not win :-( My bad for not coming up with this idea earlier. > > You mean people would farm plat/leg so their opinion would look better? :) > > > > > > I would like to see people try to do that. At least this will reduce the ammount of "OMG I was oneshotted once by DE in my last game! NERF NERF NERF" threads popularity by a lot, hopefully. But then again, you can argue with a person from high division. Try doing that with a bronze/silver/gold division guy/girl. The option of countreplay/improving is just absent from the brain and I would much rather not try and reason with that person. Because it is a waste of time, in my opinion. > > Edit: typos Have you seen the clownfiesta PvP is even in platinum? People double cap nodes, in platinum, just let that sink in for a sec. Even when PvP was still active, almost at its best (S5) the majority of mid platinum would leave a heal ele to cap nodes and yell at them for not staying and doing it when it’s the job of classes that can hold a node while the ele rotates into a team fight or you force a team fight. I even remember people winning mid and capping home and just sitting there, yes just sitting there instead of pushing the fight to far and keeping someone between home and mid ready to go where needed. The best part is the scourge bots in platinum, yes I’ve seen them on streams and they play better than real players half the time and slaughter the enemy team by sitting off node and spamming AoE conditions. PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > The only thing that i don't like about stealth is that it should be a temporary "shield", while instead after its duration expires you have to search again your target instead having a "last target" macro ( or eventually the possibility to mantain your target on it ). > That would be 'broken' especially for thieves ,no need to look after target, straight teleport on it after stealth expired. Target loss is important to not get instaoneshotted by thieves and tactical retreat for sneaky decaps and leave opponent guessing where did you go. > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > So you understand the reason behind the thought :-) not saying it is THE best way to say if a post is legut or not, but hey, I am all for more effective option/s. > > > Also I can only imagine the amount of post created after your play :-D > > I think i'm not caused nerf threads , like people calling out others for hacking but thats mostly not going beyond just saying that. Sadly its impossible to not allow people create threads xD > > > > People still need to ask for advice and such, soo yeah. But a post with a silver/bronze badge asking for an advice will probably be received pretty well. Thats why i said its impossible , i perfectly realize its not the way to deal with people that dont understand game/mechanic and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > O_O I can and did that a ton of times! Man, I really wish you could see the bange with divisions on the forum. It would probably explin alot.. People dying to condi DRUID and/or DE's DJ. Oh wait I got it. If you stand still then yes, you can not win :-( My bad for not coming up with this idea earlier. > > > You mean people would farm plat/leg so their opinion would look better? :) > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see people try to do that. At least this will reduce the ammount of "OMG I was oneshotted once by DE in my last game! NERF NERF NERF" threads popularity by a lot, hopefully. But then again, you can argue with a person from high division. Try doing that with a bronze/silver/gold division guy/girl. The option of countreplay/improving is just absent from the brain and I would much rather not try and reason with that person. Because it is a waste of time, in my opinion. > > > > Edit: typos > > Have you seen the clownfiesta PvP is even in platinum? People double cap nodes, in platinum, just let that sink in for a sec. Even when PvP was still active, almost at its best (S5) the majority of mid platinum would leave a heal ele to cap nodes and yell at them for not staying and doing it when it’s the job of classes that can hold a node while the ele rotates into a team fight or you force a team fight. > > I even remember people winning mid and capping home and just sitting there, yes just sitting there instead of pushing the fight to far and keeping someone between home and mid ready to go where needed. The best part is the scourge bots in platinum, yes I’ve seen them on streams and they play better than real players half the time and slaughter the enemy team by sitting off node and spamming AoE conditions. > > PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. And, as I already said, it is not the best solution. But still it is something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > The only thing that i don't like about stealth is that it should be a temporary "shield", while instead after its duration expires you have to search again your target instead having a "last target" macro ( or eventually the possibility to mantain your target on it ). > > > > That would be 'broken' especially for thieves ,no need to look after target, straight teleport on it after stealth expired. Target loss is important to not get instaoneshotted by thieves and tactical retreat for sneaky decaps and leave opponent guessing where did you go. I don't get it. Would be better for those against thieves or for thieves playing against others? To me would be great vs any class which has stealth ( where 3 sec stealth most of the time are 4/5 because you have to guess where your target should be ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > The only thing that i don't like about stealth is that it should be a temporary "shield", while instead after its duration expires you have to search again your target instead having a "last target" macro ( or eventually the possibility to mantain your target on it ). > > > > > > > That would be 'broken' especially for thieves ,no need to look after target, straight teleport on it after stealth expired. Target loss is important to not get instaoneshotted by thieves and tactical retreat for sneaky decaps and leave opponent guessing where did you go. > > I don't get it. > Would be better for those against thieves or for thieves playing against others? > > To me would be great vs any class which has stealth ( where 3 sec stealth most of the time are 4/5 because you have to guess where your target should be ). If i got your idea right, u want to regain target on stealthed guy after its over ? So thief would get target instant and steal through textures which otherwise he cant click /see throught -> broken/unfair/whatever. Plus u can call mark target to know where that person on minimap->unfair. With current stealth , you run behind obstacles and can not allow them take you in target that easily or even see you/let them know where did you go ,which is completely fine for me. > @"apharma.3741" said: > PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. Was one of my thoughts ,some people are may not playnig ranked and still might have very good suggestions/thoughts (usually ignored but whatever) or just trolling like some people and way too many ppl IM IN PLAT IM SO GOOD, here you absolutely right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 You suppose that thieves have always no los teleports rdy, while they only have stealth, which has 20 sec cd. * Shadowshot has 900yd range but suffers from obstacles, so it's not usable in every situation ( as you said, obstacles could be used to los it ). * Shadowstep is your only stunbreak with 50 sec cd and not on target, so you would have to find where your target is and maybe more toward that direction. * Infiltrator strike has 900 yd range and does not suffer from obstacles ( but players still go d/p even though s/d is viable ). * Infiltrator arrow as shadowstep in terms of movement ( but if you swapped shortbow in combat you will lose most of your dps ). I don't really see many problem but the infiltrator strike which could be too good ( even though you can't reuse it for 15 sec unless you return XX yd back ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > O_O I can and did that a ton of times! Man, I really wish you could see the bange with divisions on the forum. It would probably explin alot.. People dying to condi DRUID and/or DE's DJ. Oh wait I got it. If you stand still then yes, you can not win :-( My bad for not coming up with this idea earlier. > > > > You mean people would farm plat/leg so their opinion would look better? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see people try to do that. At least this will reduce the ammount of "OMG I was oneshotted once by DE in my last game! NERF NERF NERF" threads popularity by a lot, hopefully. But then again, you can argue with a person from high division. Try doing that with a bronze/silver/gold division guy/girl. The option of countreplay/improving is just absent from the brain and I would much rather not try and reason with that person. Because it is a waste of time, in my opinion. > > > > > > Edit: typos > > > > Have you seen the clownfiesta PvP is even in platinum? People double cap nodes, in platinum, just let that sink in for a sec. Even when PvP was still active, almost at its best (S5) the majority of mid platinum would leave a heal ele to cap nodes and yell at them for not staying and doing it when it’s the job of classes that can hold a node while the ele rotates into a team fight or you force a team fight. > > > > I even remember people winning mid and capping home and just sitting there, yes just sitting there instead of pushing the fight to far and keeping someone between home and mid ready to go where needed. The best part is the scourge bots in platinum, yes I’ve seen them on streams and they play better than real players half the time and slaughter the enemy team by sitting off node and spamming AoE conditions. > > > > PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. > > And, as I already said, it is not the best solution. But still it is something? Not really, it’s the same as when dungeon runners required 15k AP and wouldn’t take anyone with less because they deemed them too low to be good at the game when in reality the poor quality of players was evenly distributed throughout. Ideas should be judged on their merit and reasoning. If someone says they need to make backstab unblockable and do twice as much damage because there’s too many blocks and damage reduction you would look at the suggestion and say, is the problem backstab isn’t strong enough or is the problem that defense spam has got out of control? The answer is somewhere in the middle usually, the 1s cool down on stealth attacks is a tad high considering the after cast so could be dropped to 0.5s however the defense and offense spam in the game is causing a lot of problems all over the game. Old PvE content is becoming face roll and irrelevant because of offensive power creep which has necessitated the creep in defensive spam to balance PvP/WvW which has left previously strong or balanced skills and traits in the dust making them weaker than other options. I’ll stop there before I go fully on a tangent as it’s only an example that really has been brought up on the forums but it expresses the point nicely, it’s the reasoning and explaination that matters not PvP rank, AP or WvW rank within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > > O_O I can and did that a ton of times! Man, I really wish you could see the bange with divisions on the forum. It would probably explin alot.. People dying to condi DRUID and/or DE's DJ. Oh wait I got it. If you stand still then yes, you can not win :-( My bad for not coming up with this idea earlier. > > > > > You mean people would farm plat/leg so their opinion would look better? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see people try to do that. At least this will reduce the ammount of "OMG I was oneshotted once by DE in my last game! NERF NERF NERF" threads popularity by a lot, hopefully. But then again, you can argue with a person from high division. Try doing that with a bronze/silver/gold division guy/girl. The option of countreplay/improving is just absent from the brain and I would much rather not try and reason with that person. Because it is a waste of time, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > Edit: typos > > > > > > Have you seen the clownfiesta PvP is even in platinum? People double cap nodes, in platinum, just let that sink in for a sec. Even when PvP was still active, almost at its best (S5) the majority of mid platinum would leave a heal ele to cap nodes and yell at them for not staying and doing it when it’s the job of classes that can hold a node while the ele rotates into a team fight or you force a team fight. > > > > > > I even remember people winning mid and capping home and just sitting there, yes just sitting there instead of pushing the fight to far and keeping someone between home and mid ready to go where needed. The best part is the scourge bots in platinum, yes I’ve seen them on streams and they play better than real players half the time and slaughter the enemy team by sitting off node and spamming AoE conditions. > > > > > > PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. > > > > And, as I already said, it is not the best solution. But still it is something? > > Not really, it’s the same as when dungeon runners required 15k AP and wouldn’t take anyone with less because they deemed them too low to be good at the game when in reality the poor quality of players was evenly distributed throughout. Ideas should be judged on their merit and reasoning. > > If someone says they need to make backstab unblockable and do twice as much damage because there’s too many blocks and damage reduction you would look at the suggestion and say, is the problem backstab isn’t strong enough or is the problem that defense spam has got out of control? The answer is somewhere in the middle usually, the 1s cool down on stealth attacks is a tad high considering the after cast so could be dropped to 0.5s however the defense and offense spam in the game is causing a lot of problems all over the game. Old PvE content is becoming face roll and irrelevant because of offensive power creep which has necessitated the creep in defensive spam to balance PvP/WvW which has left previously strong or balanced skills and traits in the dust making them weaker than other options. > > I’ll stop there before I go fully on a tangent as it’s only an example that really has been brought up on the forums but it expresses the point nicely, it’s the reasoning and explaination that matters not PvP rank, AP or WvW rank within reason. Great! Whan is your suggestion then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > You suppose that thieves have always no los teleports rdy, while they only have stealth, which has 20 sec cd. > > * Shadowshot has 900yd range but suffers from obstacles, so it's not usable in every situation ( as you said, obstacles could be used to los it ). > * Shadowstep is your only stunbreak with 50 sec cd and not on target, so you would have to find where your target is and maybe more toward that direction. > * Infiltrator strike has 900 yd range and does not suffer from obstacles ( but players still go d/p even though s/d is viable ). > * Infiltrator arrow as shadowstep in terms of movement ( but if you swapped shortbow in combat you will lose most of your dps ). > > I don't really see many problem but the infiltrator strike which could be too good ( even though you can't reuse it for 15 sec unless you return XX yd back ). ???????????????????????????????? Everyone play D/P???????????????????????? Everyone and their grandmothers playing S/D only. You port to your target hit him few times, return (possibly proc steal recharge, steal instead of infiltrator strike and what stops you from chasing its till it die ... ?) So what that you return back ... ? Infiltrator signet exist as well , s/d have 2 steals tho, steal recharge their random cooldowns. (s/d have another stunbreak which is a roll,just saying) To know direction where your target go you stop for a split second and use any skill ,your character turns towards its location . Giving away your location and being able to target it right away thats dumb, put some effort and find him on your own ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > O_O I can and did that a ton of times! Man, I really wish you could see the bange with divisions on the forum. It would probably explin alot.. People dying to condi DRUID and/or DE's DJ. Oh wait I got it. If you stand still then yes, you can not win :-( My bad for not coming up with this idea earlier. > > > > > > You mean people would farm plat/leg so their opinion would look better? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see people try to do that. At least this will reduce the ammount of "OMG I was oneshotted once by DE in my last game! NERF NERF NERF" threads popularity by a lot, hopefully. But then again, you can argue with a person from high division. Try doing that with a bronze/silver/gold division guy/girl. The option of countreplay/improving is just absent from the brain and I would much rather not try and reason with that person. Because it is a waste of time, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: typos > > > > > > > > Have you seen the clownfiesta PvP is even in platinum? People double cap nodes, in platinum, just let that sink in for a sec. Even when PvP was still active, almost at its best (S5) the majority of mid platinum would leave a heal ele to cap nodes and yell at them for not staying and doing it when it’s the job of classes that can hold a node while the ele rotates into a team fight or you force a team fight. > > > > > > > > I even remember people winning mid and capping home and just sitting there, yes just sitting there instead of pushing the fight to far and keeping someone between home and mid ready to go where needed. The best part is the scourge bots in platinum, yes I’ve seen them on streams and they play better than real players half the time and slaughter the enemy team by sitting off node and spamming AoE conditions. > > > > > > > > PvP rank means nothing, it isn’t indicative of skill nor is it a good indicator for deductive reasoning. > > > > > > And, as I already said, it is not the best solution. But still it is something? > > > > Not really, it’s the same as when dungeon runners required 15k AP and wouldn’t take anyone with less because they deemed them too low to be good at the game when in reality the poor quality of players was evenly distributed throughout. Ideas should be judged on their merit and reasoning. > > > > If someone says they need to make backstab unblockable and do twice as much damage because there’s too many blocks and damage reduction you would look at the suggestion and say, is the problem backstab isn’t strong enough or is the problem that defense spam has got out of control? The answer is somewhere in the middle usually, the 1s cool down on stealth attacks is a tad high considering the after cast so could be dropped to 0.5s however the defense and offense spam in the game is causing a lot of problems all over the game. Old PvE content is becoming face roll and irrelevant because of offensive power creep which has necessitated the creep in defensive spam to balance PvP/WvW which has left previously strong or balanced skills and traits in the dust making them weaker than other options. > > > > I’ll stop there before I go fully on a tangent as it’s only an example that really has been brought up on the forums but it expresses the point nicely, it’s the reasoning and explaination that matters not PvP rank, AP or WvW rank within reason. > > Great! Whan is your suggestion then? > @"apharma.3741" said: > Stealth stacking is the issue, what if you couldn’t stack stealth anymore and had 2s reveal after coming out of stealth but it lasted 1s longer or 2s longer if you run SA? > > Mind you I don’t think every stealth skill needs to last longer, just stealth combo and a few thief skills, maybe mesmer decoy now you can’t reduce its cool down. Yes there will be outliers but on the whole it would make the game much better and make WvW less stupid, bad players will still get 1 shot from stealth though because bad players don’t pay attention to the enemy stealthing infront of them. I don’t have an issue with shorter stealth durations where someone disappears for a few seconds with very few ways to stop it outside of an instant or almost instant cast interrupt. What I have an issue with is when someone can use it repeatedly to reset a fight or simply sit in stealth for prolonged periods of time. 2s might be too short but a forced no stealth period would mean that there’s a period of time where the enemy can see what you’re doing and actually target them. This is still what I would consider a semi lazy fix as the real solution would be to check skills, traits, pets fields etc and how they all interract and balance accordingly by increasing cool downs, decreasing damage/healing or general effects. If smokescale did less damage than most other pets but had the smoke field there would be a clear trade off however smokescale not only has the smoke field for stealthing but also does more damage than most pets or at least delivers the damage better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I have an idea: entering stealth reduces the movenet speed for 25%. So you can't use stealth offensively and/or stalk someone for 10 mins straight in WvW. And in PvP stealth is not a big problem anyway.. Also reseting a fight would become mutch harder because it will be a lot easier to predict where the stealthed person is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Stealth could be reworked to some sort of camouflage to blend in with the environment while stationery. While moving, it would depict your character as a transparent silhouette as seen in the film Predator rendering you somewhat visible but the moment stationery completely invisible. This, however, could be made so that even if you attack from range unless you're being hit by an enemy you will not get revealed, also immune to effects such as the Retaliation boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Yeah, revealed has never appropriate or enough to counter stealth. You don't counter invulnerability by simply giving some classes an ability to hard shut-down all invulns in an AoE around them. Perhaps the best/easiest fix is to reduce Damage / CC / Healing while in stealth by for example 50%. Maybe Thief #1 skill should be the only exception since it's made for this purpose. But things like Mug would still be reduced. This would be healthy longterm for Mesmer, Thief, Druid, Engi. Would like to hear arguments against this, to convince me otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. > > > > > > fun fact: stealth is equal to invul for every target based skill, cause you cannot start an attack that Needs a target on an enemy you cant see... > > > > > > most classes have maybe 1 reveal while deadeye can Counter 2 times reveal... > > > while reaper, every ele, renegade, scourge, core guard and firebrand didnt have any reveal skills or stealth by their own to Counter that... > > > > > > > Fun fact that doesn’t prove anything I said wrong, and again Stealth does not function anything like Invuln, Stealthed players are still fully subjected to damage, and CC’s. Also who would have thought that players can’t cast a targeted spell on no target hmm interesting funny how that works. > > > > Again this Op is about there being no Counters but Counters exist on multiple classes. Quit trying to derail the topic. > > i Play reaper and there is absolutely no Counter to stealth because there is no reveal... Again nothing what you say proves what I stated is wrong quit trying to derail the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragion.2831 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. Go ahead and spam attacks when you see a mesmer or thief stealth at 1200 range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > Yeah, revealed has never appropriate or enough to counter stealth. You don't counter invulnerability by simply giving some classes an ability to hard shut-down all invulns in an AoE around them. > > Perhaps the best/easiest fix is to reduce Damage / CC / Healing while in stealth by for example 50%. Maybe Thief #1 skill should be the only exception since it's made for this purpose. But things like Mug would still be reduced. This would be healthy longterm for Mesmer, Thief, Druid, Engi. Would like to hear arguments against this, to convince me otherwise! I wouldn't mind seeing it so that using any skill except auto attacks and mobility skills should break stealth. Not apply revealed mind you, that should still only happen if you actually inflict damage on something by using a skill that you initiated while in stealth. But any skill use outside of auto attacks and mobility skills should break stealth, possibly with a few more exceptions (eg I think it would still be ok to allow other skills that grant stealth to not break it, to still allow for limited stealth stacking). However this would require so much to be rebalanced that it makes the phantasm rework seem trivial. But what this would do is remove bursts from stealth, and would relegate stealth to being used to maneuver, and get an opening strike out, but notan entire burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > Yeah, revealed has never appropriate or enough to counter stealth. You don't counter invulnerability by simply giving some classes an ability to hard shut-down all invulns in an AoE around them. > > Perhaps the best/easiest fix is to reduce Damage / CC / Healing while in stealth by for example 50%. Maybe Thief #1 skill should be the only exception since it's made for this purpose. But things like Mug would still be reduced. This would be healthy longterm for Mesmer, Thief, Druid, Engi. Would like to hear arguments against this, to convince me otherwise! This is exactly what I was thinking as a solution. I highly doubt Anet will ever implement anything like this however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. > > > > > > > > fun fact: stealth is equal to invul for every target based skill, cause you cannot start an attack that Needs a target on an enemy you cant see... > > > > > > > > most classes have maybe 1 reveal while deadeye can Counter 2 times reveal... > > > > while reaper, every ele, renegade, scourge, core guard and firebrand didnt have any reveal skills or stealth by their own to Counter that... > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact that doesn’t prove anything I said wrong, and again Stealth does not function anything like Invuln, Stealthed players are still fully subjected to damage, and CC’s. Also who would have thought that players can’t cast a targeted spell on no target hmm interesting funny how that works. > > > > > > Again this Op is about there being no Counters but Counters exist on multiple classes. Quit trying to derail the topic. > > > > i Play reaper and there is absolutely no Counter to stealth because there is no reveal... > > Again nothing what you say proves what I stated is wrong quit trying to derail the conversation. its a question of balancing,several classes have Access to massive invis uptime. so every class should be able to Counter it, not just some "choosen" classes. in past blocks were way stronger than today, because there were less unblockable skills in the game. like they implemented more unblockable traits/skills to balance that anet have to implement more reveal skills. its not deray the conversastion just because someone criticize a broken mechanic you benefit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. > > > > > > fun fact: stealth is equal to invul for every target based skill, cause you cannot start an attack that Needs a target on an enemy you cant see... > > > > > > most classes have maybe 1 reveal while deadeye can Counter 2 times reveal... > > > while reaper, every ele, renegade, scourge, core guard and firebrand didnt have any reveal skills or stealth by their own to Counter that... > > > > > > > Fun fact that doesn’t prove anything I said wrong, and again Stealth does not function anything like Invuln, Stealthed players are still fully subjected to damage, and CC’s. Also who would have thought that players can’t cast a targeted spell on no target hmm interesting funny how that works. > > > > Again this Op is about there being no Counters but Counters exist on multiple classes. Quit trying to derail the topic. > > i Play reaper and there is absolutely no Counter to stealth because there is no reveal... You have AoE fear, Marks from staff, AoE in general, CC, Shroud skills to cleave AND shroud AoE + passive procs. You can also outplay the stealth using Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk, The new portal, the puke and so on. I remember 5 years ago when I first started this game, I had heaps of trouble against stealthed classes, especially PU condi mes because the clones when they broke would give you 3 stacks of bleeding, weakness and other condi's, the mes could also pop illusions from stealth without revealing itself too but even then you still learnt how to beat them while they were stealthed. I'm sure you could do the same, I dare you to spend a week focusing on stealthed players, predicting the movements and watching your AA chain, your AA chain will cycle through when you hit an enemy, so watch it closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 When JRR Tolkein was looking for an ability for the most powerful item in the world he chose Invisibility. That says it all, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Svarty.8019" said: > When JRR Tolkein was looking for an ability for the most powerful item in the world he chose Invisibility. > > That says it all, for me. I know you're joking, but even the invisibility from the one ring had drawbacks more serious than what stealth in GW2 has. Technically, you still cast a shadow in daylight, albeit a "weak-slippery" shadow or something like that, that you would only see if you were looking for it. It also drew the ringwraiths to you. For the most part (ignoring The Hobit because Sauron was still just "the necromancer" in that book and hadn't revived his ringwraiths yet), putting on the one ring also exposed you to any ringwraiths that were nearby, drawing them to you like carrion to a carcass. Beyond that, the ring physically changed you, eventually turning you into something similar to Gollum, and even just over the course of the year or so that Frodo kept it, it had already taken almost complete control over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. > > > > > > > > > > fun fact: stealth is equal to invul for every target based skill, cause you cannot start an attack that Needs a target on an enemy you cant see... > > > > > > > > > > most classes have maybe 1 reveal while deadeye can Counter 2 times reveal... > > > > > while reaper, every ele, renegade, scourge, core guard and firebrand didnt have any reveal skills or stealth by their own to Counter that... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact that doesn’t prove anything I said wrong, and again Stealth does not function anything like Invuln, Stealthed players are still fully subjected to damage, and CC’s. Also who would have thought that players can’t cast a targeted spell on no target hmm interesting funny how that works. > > > > > > > > Again this Op is about there being no Counters but Counters exist on multiple classes. Quit trying to derail the topic. > > > > > > i Play reaper and there is absolutely no Counter to stealth because there is no reveal... > > > > Again nothing what you say proves what I stated is wrong quit trying to derail the conversation. > > its a question of balancing,several classes have Access to massive invis uptime. so every class should be able to Counter it, not just some "choosen" classes. > > in past blocks were way stronger than today, because there were less unblockable skills in the game. like they implemented more unblockable traits/skills to balance that anet have to implement more reveal skills. its not deray the conversastion just because someone criticize a broken mechanic you benefit from. Oh this is great again the OP is about there being zero Counters to stealth which I have pointed out there are indeed Counters to stealth so your posts have been derailing. And nope I don’t benefit from Stealth since I have been maining Rev the past couple seasons (aka more than 9 months) and if I touch my Thief it’s S/D or P/P troll build ooh so much stealths omg.. lulz Again nothing you have said has Disproven anything I have stated. Counters exist to stealth on the majority of classes, the ability to counter play exist on every class. You Stated Stealth is essentially Invuln which it is clearly nowhere near Invuln in function or design, but hey I get it facts are hard. Reading tool tips, skill descriptions and game play blatantly proves this. > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > Fun fact, it Already has Counters in game it’s called Reveal (multiple classes have access to it) and Stealth doesn’t stop Damage like Blocks most attacks will damage players in stealth. > > > > > > > > > > fun fact: stealth is equal to invul for every target based skill, cause you cannot start an attack that Needs a target on an enemy you cant see... I see the problem here though and it’s not stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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