Warrior/Spellbreaker is just weak.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @Darkhydrox.8560 said:

> > @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > It totally stinks in PvE, I am majorly disappointed in this elite spec. I went back to my old Condition Berserker build with Viper's gear after two days of testing Spellbreaker. Much more efficient.

>

> As much as I agree condi zerker is clearly better dps I don't think it's even fair to compare a power spec to a condi spec considering the huge disparity between condi and power on pretty much any profession right now.

 

I don't know, to me it feels like a power Druid build is much more efficient than one for Spellbreaker. The latter is a weak build altogether and just doesn't offer anything that would make me want to switch to that elite spec at this point.

[mnpksage.4290]

I feel like the fact that Spellbreaker is more sustainy than Deadeye may contribute, though. Since Spellbreaker dies less, it'll do more damage or about the same damage as a thief who gets downstated often. That's just my experience, though.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @mnpksage.4290 said:

> I feel like the fact that Spellbreaker is more sustainy than Deadeye may contribute, though. Since Spellbreaker dies less, it'll do more damage or about the same damage as a thief who gets downstated often. That's just my experience, though.

 

That was initially one of my thoughts, since thieves are squishier they could do more damage, HOWEVER, Warrior rifle has been in a sorry state for years basically, Warrior longbow does more, so having a Thief with a rifle ( who's used it for years LESS) and have them deal more damage sort of rubs salt in the wound that thieves are more experienced with a weapon they only JUST picked up, while warriors are the supposed "Master of weapons" and can't even figure out which end to shoot people people ( I remember when the trait made rifle shots pierce, and then rifle butt used to have a pierce effect :P)

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > @mnpksage.4290 said:

> > I feel like the fact that Spellbreaker is more sustainy than Deadeye may contribute, though. Since Spellbreaker dies less, it'll do more damage or about the same damage as a thief who gets downstated often. That's just my experience, though.

>

> That was initially one of my thoughts, since thieves are squishier they could do more damage, HOWEVER, Warrior rifle has been in a sorry state for years basically, Warrior longbow does more, so having a Thief with a rifle ( who's used it for years LESS) and have them deal more damage sort of rubs salt in the wound that thieves are more experienced with a weapon they only JUST picked up, while warriors are the supposed "Master of weapons" and can't even figure out which end to shoot people people ( I remember when the trait made rifle shots pierce, and then rifle butt used to have a pierce effect :P)

>

 

Which is ironic if you remember how silly Rifle Warrior was in WvW in the early days of the game. :D

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @Oglaf.1074 said:

> > @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > > @mnpksage.4290 said:

> > > I feel like the fact that Spellbreaker is more sustainy than Deadeye may contribute, though. Since Spellbreaker dies less, it'll do more damage or about the same damage as a thief who gets downstated often. That's just my experience, though.

> >

> > That was initially one of my thoughts, since thieves are squishier they could do more damage, HOWEVER, Warrior rifle has been in a sorry state for years basically, Warrior longbow does more, so having a Thief with a rifle ( who's used it for years LESS) and have them deal more damage sort of rubs salt in the wound that thieves are more experienced with a weapon they only JUST picked up, while warriors are the supposed "Master of weapons" and can't even figure out which end to shoot people people ( I remember when the trait made rifle shots pierce, and then rifle butt used to have a pierce effect :P)

> >

>

> Which is ironic if you remember how silly Rifle Warrior was in WvW in the early days of the game. :D

 

Thats how it usually goes, something does well, Anet nerfs said thing into the ground, never to be seen again.

Which is why warrior is nerf city. Its mean to be a high damage class with moderate surviveability and is suppose to be easy to use, remove any of these elements and you have a useless guy running around trying to hit things with his ineffective wet noodle while everyone laughs at them.

[Obtena.7952]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> I get the feeling this thread is turning into a "Spellbreaker is great vs spellbreaker sucks" thread... All i intended to do really was voice my opinion on PvE spellbreaker feeling nice and fast but the daggers don't do much damage, or bring > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > No, it's a crit spec ... if it was a **damage** crit spec, you wouldn't be complaining about it's low damage. I know this likely hasn't crossed your mind but you CAN have a spec that crits lots without good damage ... and there would be a reason to do that as well, though perhaps not so much in PVE.

> > > >

> > > > Again, don't assume what this spec should do based on making unconfirmed correlations.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > And even with CC and boonstrip, you still have to do the damage needed to kill the target to capitalize on the CC.

> > > >

> > > > So what are you saying? You don't do any damage? I mean, how does a Scrapper kill things? They don't do too much damage. Let's not pretend that all the non_DPS effects that are good in PVP/WvW are not part of this spec and don't contribute to the things that make it a useful spec. Not every spec is going to be good DPS for PVE. That should be obvious at this point yes?

> > >

> > > Just saying, I have stated previously, I am talking about PvE, is there a point in having crits only in PvE? with all the enemies weak to conditions and all the pbjects that cannot be crit but can be statused. If they want us to crit, we need to be able to do damage with dagger.

> > >

> >

> > I think that's not even a relevant question. That direction assumes Anet always makes especs that 'have a point' for something specifically player chosen. They don't. This is an example. Is there a point in critting lots in PVE with not high damage? Maybe not, but there doesn't have to be for this spec to exist either. If Anet wants you to crit, they can do that without having high damage on dagger. There are no set rules for this stuff; don't try to invent them.

>

> The only way I can see critical hits matter without damage, would be if the game acted like Pokémon, where critical Hits ignore buffs - e.g. Protection, and stat lowers e.g. - weakness. since this isn't the case, we can assume that critical hits are tied to power as they directly buff power damage, not condition damage, and having an elite spec deal low damage with their weapon, but crit a lot, with sigils etc that have a 10s internal cooldown basically hinders the entire purpose of the crits.

 

Luckily that's not the only way crits matter without damage. Simply implementing effects that proc on crit can make them matter without imparting them with lots of damage. In fact, that's exactly what happens on the 3rd dagger chain with the might bonus on crit. It happens that way by intentional design, so it's going to be a pretty hard sell to ignore this while challenging Anet on the damage SBreaker dagger builds have. Seems to me it's intentional that there are situations where you don't get large amounts of damage, even when you crit lots.

 

I get that it's a disappointment when your new espec doesn't deliver the damage in PVE, but that's not how they are designed in the first place, so it shouldn't be a big shock to anyone. it most certainly shouldn't be regarded as a mistake. In fact, as the game continues and we get more especs, you can except fewer and fewer of them to be 'big dps' specs, especially since the game has meta builds and no trinity.

[Ferus.3165]

 

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Luckily that's not the only way crits matter without damage. Simply implementing effects that proc on crit can make them matter without imparting them with lots of damage. In fact, that's exactly what happens on the 3rd dagger chain with the might bonus on crit. It happens that way by intentional design, so it's going to be a pretty hard sell to ignore this while challenging Anet on the damage SBreaker dagger builds have. Seems to me it's intentional that there are situations where you don't get large amounts of damage, even when you crit lots.

>

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. You are basicly justifying the low damage of spellbreaker by saying "it crits alot and gets boni for critting even so the only bonus it gets it 1 might every 3 autos." The condition dmg part of might does nothing for SB and the power scaling on SB dagger autos is at 55% so you get a little more than 15 dmg ontop of your low dmg autoattack and it stacks to like 100 bonus damage for your autos through crit.

 

In theory you would be right with strong on hit effects proccing from crits, but SB doesn't have any of those, so it's completely ridiculous to put extra crit and crit dmg on a autohit that deals no dmg because the base scaling simply sucks.

 

But SB doesn't need any more dmg as it is right now. Maybe a boonrip on the third autottack, if the attacks crits or something like that.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > I get the feeling this thread is turning into a "Spellbreaker is great vs spellbreaker sucks" thread... All i intended to do really was voice my opinion on PvE spellbreaker feeling nice and fast but the daggers don't do much damage, or bring > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > > > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > > No, it's a crit spec ... if it was a **damage** crit spec, you wouldn't be complaining about it's low damage. I know this likely hasn't crossed your mind but you CAN have a spec that crits lots without good damage ... and there would be a reason to do that as well, though perhaps not so much in PVE.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, don't assume what this spec should do based on making unconfirmed correlations.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > And even with CC and boonstrip, you still have to do the damage needed to kill the target to capitalize on the CC.

> > > > >

> > > > > So what are you saying? You don't do any damage? I mean, how does a Scrapper kill things? They don't do too much damage. Let's not pretend that all the non_DPS effects that are good in PVP/WvW are not part of this spec and don't contribute to the things that make it a useful spec. Not every spec is going to be good DPS for PVE. That should be obvious at this point yes?

> > > >

> > > > Just saying, I have stated previously, I am talking about PvE, is there a point in having crits only in PvE? with all the enemies weak to conditions and all the pbjects that cannot be crit but can be statused. If they want us to crit, we need to be able to do damage with dagger.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think that's not even a relevant question. That direction assumes Anet always makes especs that 'have a point' for something specifically player chosen. They don't. This is an example. Is there a point in critting lots in PVE with not high damage? Maybe not, but there doesn't have to be for this spec to exist either. If Anet wants you to crit, they can do that without having high damage on dagger. There are no set rules for this stuff; don't try to invent them.

> >

> > The only way I can see critical hits matter without damage, would be if the game acted like Pokémon, where critical Hits ignore buffs - e.g. Protection, and stat lowers e.g. - weakness. since this isn't the case, we can assume that critical hits are tied to power as they directly buff power damage, not condition damage, and having an elite spec deal low damage with their weapon, but crit a lot, with sigils etc that have a 10s internal cooldown basically hinders the entire purpose of the crits.

>

> Luckily that's not the only way crits matter without damage. Simply implementing effects that proc on crit can make them matter without imparting them with lots of damage. In fact, that's exactly what happens on the 3rd dagger chain with the might bonus on crit. It happens that way by intentional design, so it's going to be a pretty hard sell to ignore this while challenging Anet on the damage SBreaker dagger builds have. Seems to me it's intentional that there are situations where you don't get large amounts of damage, even when you crit lots.

>

> I get that it's a disappointment when your new espec doesn't deliver the damage in PVE, but that's not how they are designed in the first place, so it shouldn't be a big shock to anyone. it most certainly shouldn't be regarded as a mistake. In fact, as the game continues and we get more especs, you can except fewer and fewer of them to be 'big dps' specs, especially since the game has meta builds and no trinity.

 

but Spellbreaker has barely any "Consistent" boon strip, there's when you interrupt, which is easily cancelled by stability, there's dagger f1, easily remove dif you don't use dagge rmainhand, there's the utility, which, if you don't use isn't there, and the elite, which is an area. It has no consistent interurpts either, Dagger 3, the taunt utility and magebane tether are the 3 that came with the spec, you can argue block also interrupts but most likely in PvE enemies attack to slow, or in pvp/wvw they stop attacking.

(My take on it anyway)

[Waisenpai.6028]

B) In wvw go Great sword with dagger and shield go Spell breaker 3 2 2. You might have some issues vs very high level 1v Revs with staff and hammer. Since they are anti melee, have ridiculous blocks and have the abilty to cast aoe damage on them selves during fights. Everything else dies 1v1.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @Waisenpai.6028 said:

> B) In wvw go Great sword with dagger and shield go Spell breaker 3 2 2. You might have some issues vs very high level 1v Revs with staff and hammer. Since they are anti melee, have ridiculous blocks and have the abilty to cast aoe damage on them selves during fights. Everything else dies 1v1.

 

And this is related to PvE how?

[Zenith.7301]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Oglaf.1074 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > Well Spellbreaker seems to be an spvp/ wvw spec - I faced a spellbreaker in WvW. I could kill him... with the help of 3 other players...and we still needed 5 minutes.

> > >

> > > Full Counter is one of the strongest skills ever made. It literally absorbs damage - > counters unblockable attacks

> >

> > Which is totally irrelevant to the discussion of Dagger DPS being teh suck.

>

> kitten are you smoking, it totally is relevant. Since the very moment we got to know Spellbreaker's skillset, you should be able to easly tell that it's predominantly a pvp class. As such, you have to look at the whole class to judge it's viability and in fact it IS a strong spec. The fact that you choose a pretty much strictly pvp class, then disregard anything it can do and just look at its raw blunt press-1-DPS is laughable and in itself makes this whole thread a joke.

 

It is a PvP class because the PvE aspects are undertuned. PvP doesn't get to have its exclusive specs while pvp gets both zerker and spellbreaker for their format.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

I'd like to see anet make all F1 abilities remove boons on SB, since we're stuck down with T1 bursts, might as well make it worth our while, and they changed other professions F1 skills why do they gotta be tying our hand around our backs while they're at it?

 

[Mutaatti.2789]

To OP. Maybe in PvE. Don't make assumptions like that saying whole class is trash when it dominates in PvP/WvW atm.

[Obtena.7952]

> @Ferus.3165 said:

>

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > Luckily that's not the only way crits matter without damage. Simply implementing effects that proc on crit can make them matter without imparting them with lots of damage. In fact, that's exactly what happens on the 3rd dagger chain with the might bonus on crit. It happens that way by intentional design, so it's going to be a pretty hard sell to ignore this while challenging Anet on the damage SBreaker dagger builds have. Seems to me it's intentional that there are situations where you don't get large amounts of damage, even when you crit lots.

> >

>

> Sorry but this is ridiculous. You are basicly justifying the low damage of spellbreaker by saying "it crits alot and gets boni for critting even so the only bonus it gets it 1 might every 3 autos." The condition dmg part of might does nothing for SB and the power scaling on SB dagger autos is at 55% so you get a little more than 15 dmg ontop of your low dmg autoattack and it stacks to like 100 bonus damage for your autos through crit.

>

> In theory you would be right with strong on hit effects proccing from crits, but SB doesn't have any of those, so it's completely ridiculous to put extra crit and crit dmg on a autohit that deals no dmg because the base scaling simply sucks.

>

> But SB doesn't need any more dmg as it is right now. Maybe a boonrip on the third autottack, if the attacks crits or something like that.

 

No, I'm justifying the low damage by the fact that there isn't a reason it needs to be high damage. It you lot making it more complicated than it really is.

[Despond.2174]

The problem now is people refuse to play around full counter in PVP and a spec that's dominated by Zerker elite in PVE and has ONE niche that may be nerfed in PVP. Then where does that leave SB? SB has sprinkled life back into PVP for this profession after all the barrage of nerfs. I too would love it to be viable in PVE, or competitive but if we can have it at least strong for one game mode I would accept that gladly, rather than have it weak in all modes.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @Mutaatti.2789 said:

> To OP. Maybe in PvE. Don't make assumptions like that saying whole class is trash when it dominates in PvP/WvW atm.

 

When did I say it's trash, When did I say anything about pvp/wvw I have stated MULTIPLE times in this thread I love spellbreaker, and I play pvE and this thread is about PvE only... make sure to read all of the thread first

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @Despond.2174 said:

> The problem now is people refuse to play around full counter in PVP and a spec that's dominated by Zerker elite in PVE and has ONE niche that may be nerfed in PVP. Then where does that leave SB? SB has sprinkled life back into PVP for this profession after all the barrage of nerfs. I too would love it to be viable in PVE, or competitive but if we can have it at least strong for one game mode I would accept that gladly, rather than have it weak in all modes.

 

Though that is a fair point, pvp is, as far as I'm aware, not "the main mode" in gw2, as they say "massive open world maps" etc, not "Amazing pvp content". but that's probably just me being me and disliking pvp :D

[Ygomogad.1836]

Would you guys take spellbreaker over renegade for any game mode? I have one slot left and am torn between the two.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"Goyim God.6873" said:

> Would you guys take spellbreaker over renegade for any game mode? I have one slot left and am torn between the two.

 

As I have said many time sin this thread I do love spellbreaker, the theme, the speed, the lore etc. And I would take it over renegade ,

[Waisenpai.6028]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > @Waisenpai.6028 said:

> > B) In wvw go Great sword with dagger and shield go Spell breaker 3 2 2. You might have some issues vs very high level 1v Revs with staff and hammer. Since they are anti melee, have ridiculous blocks and have the abilty to cast aoe damage on them selves during fights. Everything else dies 1v1.

>

> And this is related to PvE how?

Why would you play spell breaker an spvp or wvw master build in pve? Countering is a pvp thing,

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @Waisenpai.6028 said:

> > @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > > @Waisenpai.6028 said:

> > > B) In wvw go Great sword with dagger and shield go Spell breaker 3 2 2. You might have some issues vs very high level 1v Revs with staff and hammer. Since they are anti melee, have ridiculous blocks and have the abilty to cast aoe damage on them selves during fights. Everything else dies 1v1.

> >

> > And this is related to PvE how?

> Why would you play spell breaker an spvp or wvw master build in pve? Countering is a pvp thing,

>

 

Enemies try to hit you in PvE as well... Just sayin'.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Goyim God.6873" said:

> Would you guys take spellbreaker over renegade for any game mode? I have one slot left and am torn between the two.

 

Last I checked, Renegade was not a Warrior spec.

[Ritualist Essence.9285]

Easy way they could increase DPS of Spellbreaker without effecting WVW: add a PVE only version of the the crit damage trait & increase it along with an extra 3% crit damage for having two daggers equipped or increase the base damage of daggers: this way people won't have to run Dagger/Axe for higher crit damage as you can get extra ferocity for having an axe equipped. Also a PVE only version of the Dagger burst skill would help, Dagger burst is very weak & most often i use full counter instead or swap to axe/dagger for a better burst skill.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"Ritualist Essence.9285" said:

> Easy way they could increase DPS of Spellbreaker without effecting WVW: add a PVE only version of the the crit damage trait & increase it along with an extra 3% crit damage for having two daggers equipped or increase the base damage of daggers: this way people won't have to run Dagger/Axe for higher crit damage as you can get extra ferocity for having an axe equipped. Also a PVE only version of the Dagger burst skill would help, Dagger burst is very weak & most often i use full counter instead or swap to axe/dagger for a better burst skill.

 

I believe I made that suggestion already :P split Pve and pvp

[Ritualist Essence.9285]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> > @"Ritualist Essence.9285" said:

> > Easy way they could increase DPS of Spellbreaker without effecting WVW: add a PVE only version of the the crit damage trait & increase it along with an extra 3% crit damage for having two daggers equipped or increase the base damage of daggers: this way people won't have to run Dagger/Axe for higher crit damage as you can get extra ferocity for having an axe equipped. Also a PVE only version of the Dagger burst skill would help, Dagger burst is very weak & most often i use full counter instead or swap to axe/dagger for a better burst skill.

>

> I believe I made that suggestion already :P split Pve and pvp

 

Awesome, i hope they'll make those changes :)