RedShark.9548 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > I'll often roam in a group as SB using Dagger/Shield and then Axe/Dagger as secondary. Work's darn well in small scale where you are not the sole target, therefore not needing the added mobility from GS. sounds still awful when you meet a bigger group or need to get out of the cluster to get some health back, after you got focused by the other party or just ate too much aoe dmg for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star.8401 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Star.8401" said: > > dagger burst is useful in zergs if traited for additional boon strip. daze is also nice on dagger 3 > > hammer is way better for stripping boons in a zerg... just a reminder OP asked about axe vs. dagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > Seems like a no-contest. It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? Because it does busted amounts of damage? The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Do you even realize how loaded that weapon is? Unblockable damage, boon removal, 2 leap finishers, CC, built-in might stacking, and solid damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. > > I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. Axe burst is easy to land if you know how to chain skills. The tell is big, but it has a big burst. Nobody competent is going to sit there and let you AA them. The F1 burst is used because it's a burst skill, not a dps skill. Idk why you're talking about DPS since that isn't a factor in WvW. Sure, hammer revs in zergs might use Arcdps to see how much damage they do to blobs, but there isn't a use for it for Axe Warriors. Plus with Warrior's Sprint, the burst removes immobilize and procs AH. There's a difference in usability between a instant burst and a channeled burst skill. Sure, Axe 5 and GS 2 might hit harder than a level 1 F1 Axe burst, but that also requires the target to stand still and take the full channel. That's not going to happen (especially with Axe 5 since you lose the stun on Shield). It's not really comparable in a WvW setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > > > > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. > > > > I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. > > Axe burst is easy to land if you know how to chain skills. The tell is big, but it has a big burst. Nobody competent is going to sit there and let you AA them. The F1 burst is used because it's a burst skill, not a dps skill. Idk why you're talking about DPS since that isn't a factor in WvW. Sure, hammer revs in zergs might use Arcdps to see how much damage they do to blobs, but there isn't a use for it for Axe Warriors. Plus with Warrior's Sprint, the burst removes immobilize and procs AH. > > There's a difference in usability between a instant burst and a channeled burst skill. Sure, Axe 5 and GS 2 might hit harder than a level 1 F1 Axe burst, but that also requires the target to stand still and take the full channel. That's not going to happen (especially with Axe 5 since you lose the stun on Shield). It's not really comparable in a WvW setting. > > Wait... So you are arguing that something that has been proven to do less damage overall than finishing the AA chain and has a (high) chance to miss when playing against competent opponents is more viable than finishing the AA chain with less of a chance to miss (no CD), and still will do better, if not comparable damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > > > > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > > > > > > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. > > > > > > I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. > > > > Axe burst is easy to land if you know how to chain skills. The tell is big, but it has a big burst. Nobody competent is going to sit there and let you AA them. The F1 burst is used because it's a burst skill, not a dps skill. Idk why you're talking about DPS since that isn't a factor in WvW. Sure, hammer revs in zergs might use Arcdps to see how much damage they do to blobs, but there isn't a use for it for Axe Warriors. Plus with Warrior's Sprint, the burst removes immobilize and procs AH. > > > > There's a difference in usability between a instant burst and a channeled burst skill. Sure, Axe 5 and GS 2 might hit harder than a level 1 F1 Axe burst, but that also requires the target to stand still and take the full channel. That's not going to happen (especially with Axe 5 since you lose the stun on Shield). It's not really comparable in a WvW setting. > > > > > > Wait... > > So you are arguing that something that has been proven to do less damage overall than finishing the AA chain and has a (high) chance to miss when playing against competent opponents is more viable than finishing the AA chain with less of a chance to miss (no CD), and still will do better, if not comparable damage? Look at it this way. You land Bull's charge (or Shield 4) on an enemy without stability. You now have the option of going for a short burst on Axe F1 or go for the full AA chain. If the enemy has a stunbreak, you won't be able to finish the AA chain, so at max you'll be doing 2 auto attacks. If you went immediately for the F1 burst, you'd do that plus the additional benefit of Adrenal Health proccing and gaining might stacks. Let's also look at cast time. Bull's Charge is a 3 second knockdown. Axe AA chain takes 3.6 seconds (without quickness), while F1 takes 1 sec to cast. Shield 4 is even lower with only a 1 1/2 sec duration. I don't know the raid dps test, but I'm assuming the main damage comes from the final third axe AA. You're less likely to land the full axe AA than the F1 burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > > > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > > > > > > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > > > > > > > > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. > > > > > > > > I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. > > > > > > Axe burst is easy to land if you know how to chain skills. The tell is big, but it has a big burst. Nobody competent is going to sit there and let you AA them. The F1 burst is used because it's a burst skill, not a dps skill. Idk why you're talking about DPS since that isn't a factor in WvW. Sure, hammer revs in zergs might use Arcdps to see how much damage they do to blobs, but there isn't a use for it for Axe Warriors. Plus with Warrior's Sprint, the burst removes immobilize and procs AH. > > > > > > There's a difference in usability between a instant burst and a channeled burst skill. Sure, Axe 5 and GS 2 might hit harder than a level 1 F1 Axe burst, but that also requires the target to stand still and take the full channel. That's not going to happen (especially with Axe 5 since you lose the stun on Shield). It's not really comparable in a WvW setting. > > > > > > > > > > Wait... > > > > So you are arguing that something that has been proven to do less damage overall than finishing the AA chain and has a (high) chance to miss when playing against competent opponents is more viable than finishing the AA chain with less of a chance to miss (no CD), and still will do better, if not comparable damage? > > Look at it this way. > > You land Bull's charge (or Shield 4) on an enemy without stability. > You now have the option of going for a short burst on Axe F1 or go for the full AA chain. > If the enemy has a stunbreak, you won't be able to finish the AA chain, so at max you'll be doing 2 auto attacks. If you went immediately for the F1 burst, you'd do that plus the additional benefit of Adrenal Health proccing and gaining might stacks. > Let's also look at cast time. Bull's Charge is a 3 second knockdown. Axe AA chain takes 3.6 seconds (without quickness), while F1 takes 1 sec to cast. Shield 4 is even lower with only a 1 1/2 sec duration. > > I don't know the raid dps test, but I'm assuming the main damage comes from the final third axe AA. You're less likely to land the full axe AA than the F1 burst. If you're running Axe shield and you land your bull's charge (and they don't stun break) you're not going to axe burst. You're going to weapon swap into GS land your burst there and go into 100b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I had a hard time justifying it before this horrid nerf but now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like a no-contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's less the nerf on dagger, but that Axe is almost broken right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hm considering that mesmer, scourge and firebrand still rule in pvp and/or wvw and warrior is only good as a sidenode (and even outclassed for that) or bubble bot makes me think otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is being a bubblebot relevant to axe? Warriors don't go axe when zerging. > > > > > > > > > > Warrior is a potent skirmisher and duelist. Their role isn't currently meta, and scourge being meta also doesn't help with warrior presence in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of what you listed relates to Axe, only meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then please elaborate why you deem axe to be overpowered? It has no mobility, no stealth, no teleport and is melee. How is it busted? Because it deals damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because it does busted amounts of damage? > > > > > > > > The best part of Axe is the F1 burst and Throw Axe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > F1 burst on axe is terrible. If I remember what the raid people said in dps testing that a level 1 axe burst was actually a dps loss over the auto attack chain. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is about PvP/WvW, not PvE. > > > > > > > > > > I was talking for WvW too, just thought I'd mention that it's a loss of damage to use the axe burst when it's only a level 1 burst. A skill is pretty bad when you're better off just cleaving instead of using it's more powerful F1. So the only reason to use the burst if you're running SB and an axe is to help proc your AH. It's also got a HUGE tell that you're going to hit with it. The "busted" amounts of damage is on axe 5 which people don't take offhand axe into WvW because you're just pretty much giving up on all defensive abilities on your weapons at that point. > > > > > > > > Axe burst is easy to land if you know how to chain skills. The tell is big, but it has a big burst. Nobody competent is going to sit there and let you AA them. The F1 burst is used because it's a burst skill, not a dps skill. Idk why you're talking about DPS since that isn't a factor in WvW. Sure, hammer revs in zergs might use Arcdps to see how much damage they do to blobs, but there isn't a use for it for Axe Warriors. Plus with Warrior's Sprint, the burst removes immobilize and procs AH. > > > > > > > > There's a difference in usability between a instant burst and a channeled burst skill. Sure, Axe 5 and GS 2 might hit harder than a level 1 F1 Axe burst, but that also requires the target to stand still and take the full channel. That's not going to happen (especially with Axe 5 since you lose the stun on Shield). It's not really comparable in a WvW setting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait... > > > > > > So you are arguing that something that has been proven to do less damage overall than finishing the AA chain and has a (high) chance to miss when playing against competent opponents is more viable than finishing the AA chain with less of a chance to miss (no CD), and still will do better, if not comparable damage? > > > > Look at it this way. > > > > You land Bull's charge (or Shield 4) on an enemy without stability. > > You now have the option of going for a short burst on Axe F1 or go for the full AA chain. > > If the enemy has a stunbreak, you won't be able to finish the AA chain, so at max you'll be doing 2 auto attacks. If you went immediately for the F1 burst, you'd do that plus the additional benefit of Adrenal Health proccing and gaining might stacks. > > Let's also look at cast time. Bull's Charge is a 3 second knockdown. Axe AA chain takes 3.6 seconds (without quickness), while F1 takes 1 sec to cast. Shield 4 is even lower with only a 1 1/2 sec duration. > > > > I don't know the raid dps test, but I'm assuming the main damage comes from the final third axe AA. You're less likely to land the full axe AA than the F1 burst. > > If you're running Axe shield and you land your bull's charge (and they don't stun break) you're not going to axe burst. You're going to weapon swap into GS land your burst there and go into 100b. > > The discussion is about Axe, not GS. I'm giving a hypothetical situation only involving Axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch.4810 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 I played a lot of PvP with axe mainhand, decided to switch to dagger after all: DPS will drop , by a lot, but added utility of gap closer and extra CC helps with creating more fluid rotations with the whole package. Also i feel more relevant in group fights that way, bringing extra CC is worth losing in raw dps. (These are my observations from playing in low gold, it's possible my perspective will switch again if\when i improve and encounter opponents with different playstyle ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > I'll often roam in a group as SB using Dagger/Shield and then Axe/Dagger as secondary. Work's darn well in small scale where you are not the sole target, therefore not needing the added mobility from GS. I like to run Axe/Dagger Dagger/Axe, it's not optimal defensively or mobility wise, but it lays some hate down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPascoal.4258 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > I'll often roam in a group as SB using Dagger/Shield and then Axe/Dagger as secondary. Work's darn well in small scale where you are not the sole target, therefore not needing the added mobility from GS. > > I like to run Axe/Dagger Dagger/Axe, it's not optimal defensively or mobility wise, but it lays some hate down. In PvP!? What a mad lad!! I can't see Warrior without Shield in PvP, Shield is way to good Also, havent touched PvP much since balance patch, but of what I've played, Dagger still seemed fine to me This foruns are nothing but a meme sometimes xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"mPascoal.4258" said: > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > I'll often roam in a group as SB using Dagger/Shield and then Axe/Dagger as secondary. Work's darn well in small scale where you are not the sole target, therefore not needing the added mobility from GS. > > > > I like to run Axe/Dagger Dagger/Axe, it's not optimal defensively or mobility wise, but it lays some hate down. > > In PvP!? What a mad lad!! > I can't see Warrior without Shield in PvP, Shield is way to good > > Also, havent touched PvP much since balance patch, but of what I've played, Dagger still seemed fine to me > This foruns are nothing but a meme sometimes xD > In WvW group play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loading.4503 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"witcher.3197" said: > Do you even realize how loaded that weapon is? > > Unblockable damage, boon removal, 2 leap finishers, CC, built-in might stacking, and solid damage. This, so much of this especially the unblockable part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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