Hammertime.7536 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 If no changes are made baseline to its duration, should they at least make it last longer with Concentration stats ? Obviously nothing too OP but just so it gives you the option to build so you can extend the barrier by a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renita.7824 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I would love for concentration to effect barrier decay. As in, if you have concentration barrier lasts longer before decay, so in order to build a more support based shielding class you have to sacrifice damage on your gear. I also want to comment that the maximum shield amount would prevent people from really benefiting from stacking 15 to 20 scourges. (Unless they are extremely coordinated, staggering barriers, which they already could do now). I also fully support separating decay time and max barrier and even heal amount in general between wvw, spvp, and pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Oculus.3726 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > Well, that's the exact problem, if we are _at least_ on par with the raw damage an Ele (Weaver) and Guardian (Firebrand) outputs according to the (early) DPS videos from qtfy, or better, _give us some love_ and even let us be the absolute condi kings, I'm perfectly fine with being glass cannons, that's an _honest_ trade off. Now, how it currently looks like (with the videos showing a 39k Scourge DPS vs. 49k Weaver and even 50k+ Firebrand DPS), I believe we're again gonna miss the meta train ... So if we don't buff the raw damage, please indeed buff barrier, so we're still viable in (PvE) group play (and self-defense for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > > > > Well, that's the exact problem, if we are _at least_ on par with the raw damage an Ele (Weaver) and Guardian (Firebrand) outputs according to the (early) DPS videos from qtfy, or better, _give us some love_ and even let us be the absolute condi kings, I'm perfectly fine with being glass cannons, that's an _honest_ trade off. Now, how it currently looks like (with the videos showing a 39k Scourge DPS vs. 49k Weaver and even 50k+ Firebrand DPS), I believe we're again gonna miss the meta train ... So if we don't buff the raw damage, please indeed buff barrier, so we're still viable in (PvE) group play (and self-defense for that matter). THIS.... a million freaking time THIS... have my babies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute.5408 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > > > > Well, that's the exact problem, if we are _at least_ on par with the raw damage an Ele (Weaver) and Guardian (Firebrand) outputs according to the (early) DPS videos from qtfy, or better, _give us some love_ and even let us be the absolute condi kings, I'm perfectly fine with being glass cannons, that's an _honest_ trade off. Now, how it currently looks like (with the videos showing a 39k Scourge DPS vs. 49k Weaver and even 50k+ Firebrand DPS), I believe we're again gonna miss the meta train ... So if we don't buff the raw damage, please indeed buff barrier, so we're still viable in (PvE) group play (and self-defense for that matter). Weaver and Firebrand are going to be nerfed though. Because they are broken. Scourge is literally broken though, aka bugged, so we may end up nerfed as well at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glott.7239 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Actually quite the opposite is the case barrier is not nearly starting to decaying fast enough. Currently there is about a 1sec. delay before barrier begins to decay, the application of new barrier will reset that delay. This leads to barrier becoming potentially VERY strong when there are a lot of people that apply, even just tiny amounts, of it. If that delay where to significantly lowered or even removed, Desert Empowerment could be changed to grant a (much smaller) barrier on every pulse, just as it's the case with all other traits that augments you F1 ability. This means F5, Desert Shroud, would now pulse barrier 7 times and will therefore trigger Abrasive Gift 7 times (which in return will probably have to be nerved to 1 stack of might). Like this we could provide might, as well as better sustain through more frequent barrier application. In Raids, this could give us a slot somewhere in between PS Warrior and Druid (provided spirits finally get changed to effect 10 targets) 1 scourge could replace 1 PS and 1 druid to free up a spot for another DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethaneGas.8357 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I dunno if anyone noticed, but there's a way to sort of prolong the barrier duration (sort of). Speaking from a fast-paced PvP perspective, when you cast a barrier a big on yourself, such as from the new heal skill of F5, you can prolong your barrier by using F2 after about 2 seconds. You'll get the new barrier added on top of your old barrier, and the decay will stop. You can do that with the new heal too. New heal, wait, F2, wait, F5, wait, F2. It's not as smooth as it sounds, but it makes your barrier decease less and I'd say it only works when under pressure where seconds matter. Edit: but I do agree it decays kinda fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drekor.5217 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > > > > Well, that's the exact problem, if we are _at least_ on par with the raw damage an Ele (Weaver) and Guardian (Firebrand) outputs according to the (early) DPS videos from qtfy, or better, _give us some love_ and even let us be the absolute condi kings, I'm perfectly fine with being glass cannons, that's an _honest_ trade off. Now, how it currently looks like (with the videos showing a 39k Scourge DPS vs. 49k Weaver and even 50k+ Firebrand DPS), I believe we're again gonna miss the meta train ... So if we don't buff the raw damage, please indeed buff barrier, so we're still viable in (PvE) group play (and self-defense for that matter). I can't see any amount of barrier buffs making a barrier scourge meta in PvE. Unless new mechanics are introduced that required barrier and nothing else sufficed then there is no point. Druids cover healing and they bring enough offensive buffs they won't be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Drekor.5217 said: > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > > > > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > > > > > > > Well, that's the exact problem, if we are _at least_ on par with the raw damage an Ele (Weaver) and Guardian (Firebrand) outputs according to the (early) DPS videos from qtfy, or better, _give us some love_ and even let us be the absolute condi kings, I'm perfectly fine with being glass cannons, that's an _honest_ trade off. Now, how it currently looks like (with the videos showing a 39k Scourge DPS vs. 49k Weaver and even 50k+ Firebrand DPS), I believe we're again gonna miss the meta train ... So if we don't buff the raw damage, please indeed buff barrier, so we're still viable in (PvE) group play (and self-defense for that matter). > > I can't see any amount of barrier buffs making a barrier scourge meta in PvE. Unless new mechanics are introduced that required barrier and nothing else sufficed then there is no point. Druids cover healing and they bring enough offensive buffs they won't be replaced. Yeah, if it was as easy as healing to replace a druid, then there would be no druid in raid since ages. The same goes for warriors, if you only had to provide might to be able to replace them, then there ould be fewer warriors in raids. Druid and warrior both provide way more than what some players see and scourge just can't replace what would be lost with a few barriers and some might stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glott.7239 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Of course might stacking and "psudo healing" alone will not fix some of the inherent problems with a lot of necromancer core traits but it would be a step in the right direction. A singel Warrior can easily bring both DPS banners to cover 10 man and GotL affects 10 people as well. The biggest issues are still ranger spirits wich still only affect 5 targets. This forces raid groups to always bring 2 druids, because the buffs are just to powerful to pass. One more thing i see as more of a problem for core necro rather then scorce is that necro lacks a buff like Empower Allies or Spotter. The closest thing to it is Vampiric Presence wich doesn't offer the same impact because of it's terrible power scaling. I unterstand that this trait must be a nightmare to balance because a buffed version could really quickly get out of hand when used with fast hitting attacks, so it might require an ICS. Then there is also the, offend made suggestion, of giving necro a "150 expertise to allies" buff. Anyway, i realize i'm getting quite of topic now but i just want to mention that neither we nor the Dev's should expect a Elite Spec to fix the issues of a core class... excuse me, "profession". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryouzanpaku.1273 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Barrier mechanic as it is seems worthless for me - if it would be changed to "does not decay in PvE for 5 seconds" it would be really great suff TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I just consider barrier a fractional dodge. It is a compromise between being wholly invulnerable and being utterly helpless. Anet did a lot of these with the new expansion. As to whether they're good... I'm not sure. The biggest problem with these partial reductions and fractional dodges is that full invulnerability skills are already plentiful, so it is like trying to make us drink diet coke when we have unlimited supplies of regular coke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Well, easy fix. Remove or limit regular cokes, weaken healing / support of allmighty professions / specs like Druid and make other specs through those nerfs better. I am a fighter for buffing weaker classes instead of nerfing stronger ones but ANet seems to miss the point with this so nerfing would fix the problems. It would cause some uproars but for the long run it will be better for class balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Nyel.1843 said: > Well, easy fix. Remove or limit regular cokes, weaken healing / support of allmighty professions / specs like Druid and make other specs through those nerfs better. I am a fighter for buffing weaker classes instead of nerfing stronger ones but ANet seems to miss the point with this so nerfing would fix the problems. It would cause some uproars but for the long run it will be better for class balance. Thought scourge's "original" support is strong in WvW. It's just that this condition management support need a rich environment that provide you with plenty incoming conditions and plenty boons. What the necromancer lack is some support that fit PvE, it's been like this since day one and scourge do not change this in the slightest. If we put ourselfs in anet's shoes, all professions have their own support and it's supposed to be enough for each. The point is that some professions have support that do not fit all gamemodes. Anet's devs just need to ease up a bit on their "condition management is the support of the necromancer" 's motto. After 5 years they should be aware that this motto hurt more the necromancer than it help him, making it borderline op in WvW and always subpar in PvE. There is a need for balance in usefullness between gamemodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I dont even think I get 1 second of barrier, but I see others (scourges/spellweavers) who can stack it like blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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