Shirlias.8104 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > /applause > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. Guess you didn't have to explain to him. He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > /applause > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. Thought he was talking about Channeling Vigor or Withdraw :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"eldenbri.1059" said: > The majority of this post is a suggestion about reducing visual clutter and restricting damage output. Due to a hand injury, I haven't really played in any competitive setting since mid-February. I think these changes are fair even though they will hurt the build I hope to play when healed. I am using ideas posted elsewhere, but trying to make a cohesive single suggestion. > > 1) As much as possible, try to clean up clones faster after they shatter > 2) Change staff phantasm to only summon one phantasm (balance damage) > 3) Change Imagined Burden trait effect so that it does not create two berserker phantasms (maybe just increase damage of one) > 4) All phantasms are effectively on the ammo system. By default, all phantasms (except shield) have one ammo. When all ammo is used, it takes 20 seconds to recharge. There is a 5-second limit between using charges. Shield phantasm (Illusionary Avenger) has 2 charges by default (there's no requirement to block to get the second charge) > 5) Chronophantasma adds one ammo to all phantasm skils > 6) Active use of Signet of Ether restores one ammo on all phantasm skills if there is space for it > 2 change would affect might generation/quickness which would solve problem of ppl complainting too much about might and quickness, you nailed this , you might not realize it but WP SIR ;) . I came to it long time ago ,just dont posted ,i doubt anet would listen to me tho xD 3 keep it two because greatsword garbage after nerfs, it has now 3 useless skills, 2-3-5 , please rework this killed weapon :( 4 its not how ammo works dud , change it for every class if you want to nerf mesmer that way CP should be changed better way than 2 ammos imo , its still doesnt fix phantasm spam at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. It's not a trade off. If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldenbri.1059 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 As far as greatsword goes, there has to be something that Imagined Burden can do to add value without adding a second phantasm In terms of the ammo suggestion, it could also be implemented like Shatterstorm where chronophantasma actually switches those skills to ammo skills. But then, you just have to figure out what Signet of Ether does in the two different modes (with and without CP) If there's a delay in ammo charge uses, having CP giving two charges cannot create much clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Its class mechanic ,get over it xd You complaint about most unfair matchup in entire gw ever existed ,thief always on top and a king with this ectos that shut down any counter pressure and boost thief killing potential , learn to play your class seriously . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > Its class mechanic ,get over it xd > You complaint about most unfair matchup in entire gw ever existed ,thief always on top and a king with this ectos that shut down any counter pressure and boost thief killing potential , learn to play your class seriously . I play all classes. Stop assuming i play only thief and complaining about Pistol Whip which nobody uses. There are plenty of threads about mirages, because it is both op and low skill high reward. Deal with it. You don't like my suggestion, and trust me I don't really care. The most annoying part is that you are not provviding a solution to nerf mirage, so basically talking with you is useless. It's not even a discussion, because it's only "LOL, XD, DEAL WITH MESMER". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. > > It's not a trade off. > If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. > If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. > > It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. The problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of how Mirage works. e.g. using dodge offensively, _WHEN THERE IS NO IMMINENT DANGER IN ORDER TO DEAL MORE DAMAGE_, is the trade off since _YOU NO LONGER GET TO USE THAT DODGE FOR DEFENSE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS_ That first point is incorrect, while dodging you only deal damage with ambushes or other skills the dodge itself does not do damage unlike Daredevil. I think you also have deficiency in understanding what a unique class mechanic is. Should other classes start getting toolbelt skills because only Engi has those? Should Weaver not have attunements since other classes can't dual attune? Should Daredevil only have 2 dodges because that's how many everyone else has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > > > > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. > > > > It's not a trade off. > > If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. > > If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. > > > > It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. > > The problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of how Mirage works. e.g. using dodge offensively, _WHEN THERE IS NO IMMINENT DANGER IN ORDER TO DEAL MORE DAMAGE_, is the trade off since _YOU NO LONGER GET TO USE THAT DODGE FOR DEFENSE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS_ > > That first point is incorrect, while dodging you only deal damage with ambushes or other skills the dodge itself does not do damage unlike Daredevil. I think you also have deficiency in understanding what a unique class mechanic is. Should other classes start getting toolbelt skills because only Engi has those? Should Weaver not have attunements since other classes can't dual attune? Should Daredevil only have 2 dodges because that's how many everyone else has? You are definitely trolling. All classes don't deal dmg on dodge. Mesmer does. Still, you continue to defend it screaming "IT'S PART OF MIRAGE MECHANICS!", unable to see that while dodging ( whatever if by choice of because of pressure ) you, unlike other classes, are able to deal dmg. Sincerely I give up on you, whatever you pretend to troll or not to understand the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shox.1586 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 my 2 cents about mesmer . . .plat 2+ games they are unstoppable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > Its class mechanic ,get over it xd > > You complaint about most unfair matchup in entire gw ever existed ,thief always on top and a king with this ectos that shut down any counter pressure and boost thief killing potential , learn to play your class seriously . > > I play all classes. > Stop assuming i play only thief and complaining about Pistol Whip which nobody uses. > > There are plenty of threads about mirages, because it is both op and low skill high reward. > Deal with it. > > You don't like my suggestion, and trust me I don't really care. > The most annoying part is that you are not provviding a solution to nerf mirage, so basically talking with you is useless. > > It's not even a discussion, because it's only "LOL, XD, DEAL WITH MESMER". I dont know what 'low skill unskilled mesmer' get as high reward ?Bad players stay bad even on so called 'op' mirage . Which applied to chrono in duels that spam phantasms.You failed to convience me to believe its 'ez facerol high reward class' :) I dont see problem with mirage ,you see ? I dont really care ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > > > > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > > > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > > > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > > > > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > > > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > > > > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > > > > > > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. > > > > > > It's not a trade off. > > > If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. > > > If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. > > > > > > It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. > > > > The problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of how Mirage works. e.g. using dodge offensively, _WHEN THERE IS NO IMMINENT DANGER IN ORDER TO DEAL MORE DAMAGE_, is the trade off since _YOU NO LONGER GET TO USE THAT DODGE FOR DEFENSE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS_ > > > > That first point is incorrect, while dodging you only deal damage with ambushes or other skills the dodge itself does not do damage unlike Daredevil. I think you also have deficiency in understanding what a unique class mechanic is. Should other classes start getting toolbelt skills because only Engi has those? Should Weaver not have attunements since other classes can't dual attune? Should Daredevil only have 2 dodges because that's how many everyone else has? > > You are definitely trolling. > All classes don't deal dmg on dodge. > Mesmer does. > > Still, you continue to defend it screaming "IT'S PART OF MIRAGE MECHANICS!", unable to see that while dodging ( whatever if by choice of because of pressure ) you, unlike other classes, are able to deal dmg. > > Sincerely I give up on you, whatever you pretend to troll or not to understand the problem. Oh my god you are so dense it's ridiculous. Of course I can see that while dodging Mirage can deal damage, that's not a blind spot in my vision. The fact is that it's not what the problem with Mirage is (which you don't understand). Asking for it to go away as soon as Mirage uses an ambush skill is stupid, it's akin to saying Daredevil now only gets 2 dodges when they have a GM selected. Or Holosmith can only use their AA chain in Photon Forge if their heat level goes about 10%. Or Soulbeast can only use beast skills if they've watched the Lion King. Or that Firebrand can only use tomes if they have a library card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > All classes don't deal dmg on dodge. > Mesmer does. War - Reckless Dodge Ele - Evasive Arcana Engi - Mines Necro - Mark Thief - Uncatchable/Bound/Lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. lol a class mechanic that can't be countered. You mean like Steal, which is instant cast with no telegraph? Or maybe you meant stealth where you just dodge in some random direction hoping the thief can't connect a backstab from the sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > If the duration of mirage cloak and overall evade uptime is too high then sure vigour and mirror access can be adjusted. But having the choice of where to put evade frames and spend endurance is interesting gameplay. > > Mes evasion is too high fit's perfectly the saying "a repeated lie becomes a truth". > Other professions have as much and some others more evade uptime than mes. > > Yeah true - I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Seizure.4985 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 After about 20 game this season, it is safe to say that the Mesmer issue probably stems from the clone/phantasm rework. * Mirage is overperforming. * Chrono is overperforming. * Core Mesmer is the best core build I have faxed so far, but not enough evidence of overperforming. Regardless, I can only assume since both elite specs and even core are really really powerful at higher levels of play, then maybe the issue mostly resides with the clone generation and phantasm damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said: > After about 20 game this season, it is safe to say that the Mesmer issue probably stems from the clone/phantasm rework. > > * Mirage is overperforming. > * Chrono is overperforming. > * Core Mesmer is the best core build I have faxed so far, but not enough evidence of overperforming. > > Regardless, I can only assume since both elite specs and even core are really really powerful at higher levels of play, then maybe the issue mostly resides with the clone generation and phantasm damage? > > Depends what the core mesmer runs but it is strictly inferior to either elite specs though the gap became a little closer after a few trait reworks allowing you to access to quickness, might stacking and a few slight damage modifiers. If you’re being competitive I cannot think of any reason you would run core mesmer except to prove you’re a better player than someone else by beating them on a weaker build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > > > > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. > > > > It's not a trade off. > > If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. > > If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. > > > > It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. > > The problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of how Mirage works. e.g. using dodge offensively, _WHEN THERE IS NO IMMINENT DANGER IN ORDER TO DEAL MORE DAMAGE_, is the trade off since _YOU NO LONGER GET TO USE THAT DODGE FOR DEFENSE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS_ > > That first point is incorrect, while dodging you only deal damage with ambushes or other skills the dodge itself does not do damage unlike Daredevil. I think you also have deficiency in understanding what a unique class mechanic is. Should other classes start getting toolbelt skills because only Engi has those? Should Weaver not have attunements since other classes can't dual attune? Should Daredevil only have 2 dodges because that's how many everyone else has? No the problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of when to use dodge and when to not use it as a mesmer. EXAMPLE 1: You are not being attacked for significant damage, so you do not dodge. Instead you rotate through your non-ambush skills like normal or do something else. EXAMPLE 2: Your teammate is about to trigger full counter and the warrior is on top of you, you press dodge and once full counter activates (if you timed it right) you'll still be under mirage cloak and you can still activate your ambush skill. The ability or inability to properly utilize your dodges so that you both evade a critical damaging ability and subsequently deliver one yourself is solely on you. It has nothing to do with tradeoffs. It has everything to do with you not understanding that you save mirage cloak + ambush for the right moment. Further, I maintain that mesmer has become a straight upgrade on anything thief actually does and that, while I have no idea who edgelord is, I don't care because I retain the right to make someone's position on an issue into a meme whenever I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > If the duration of mirage cloak and overall evade uptime is too high then sure vigour and mirror access can be adjusted. But having the choice of where to put evade frames and spend endurance is interesting gameplay. > > > > Mes evasion is too high fit's perfectly the saying "a repeated lie becomes a truth". > > Other professions have as much and some others more evade uptime than mes. > > > > > > Yeah true - I agree with you. It's not a repeated lie, mesmer has been capable of maintaining permanent evade uptime for quite a long time. It is obviously not possible for a class to have more evade uptime than PERMANENT evade. The mistake they are making is that most mesmers don't use PERMANENT evade in pvp (since nobody NEEDS permanent evade and some of those evades are better spent on utility or damage), and that the sigils required for mesmer to have permanent evade uptime have been nerfed in pvp. Of course, I'm sure you're both well aware of this and simply chose to pick the side of the debate that is convenient for mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > If the duration of mirage cloak and overall evade uptime is too high then sure vigour and mirror access can be adjusted. But having the choice of where to put evade frames and spend endurance is interesting gameplay. > > > > > > Mes evasion is too high fit's perfectly the saying "a repeated lie becomes a truth". > > > Other professions have as much and some others more evade uptime than mes. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah true - I agree with you. > > It's not a repeated lie, mesmer has been capable of maintaining permanent evade uptime for quite a long time. It is obviously not possible for a class to have more evade uptime than PERMANENT evade. The mistake they are making is that most mesmers don't use PERMANENT evade in pvp (since nobody NEEDS permanent evade and some of those evades are better spent on utility or damage), and that the sigils required for mesmer to have permanent evade uptime have been nerfed in pvp. > > Of course, I'm sure you're both well aware of this and simply chose to pick the side of the debate that is convenient for mesmer. ... Actually currently I'm not sure on my position regarding mirage evade access. I'm conscious that I don't want to be skewed either way - neither by overly negative outlooks (ie "choosing to pick the side of the debate that is convenient for thief" or whatever) or the opposite. So please don't start that. Regardless, simply being able to chain a length of evades through dodge, BF, mirrors and so on serves no purpose. And here as you said energy sigils are nerfed, there is no food unlike wvw (and in that situation I've run into many opponents on a variety of classes that allow insane levels of sustain), and adventurer rune endurance refund is not fully taken advantage of unless training a low cooldown heal like Mirror. In addition to that, I believe the 1s dodge evade frame is correct and should remain. If anything is excessive then vigour access can be reduced. Also Desert Distortion really ought to be replaced with something less gimmicky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Is this class gonna get a hotfix or nerf within mid season at all or what? This whole Time split abuse with clones/well gravity is just getting to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > > > Again trying to defend the ret class. > > > > > > > > Also I forget to mention the free dodge every heal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again defend attack on dodge. > > > > > > > > /applause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blurred frenzy is to evade while recovering cds > > > > > > > > stop acting dumb please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha? > > > > > > > What free dodge every heal ?????????????? You complaint about adventurer rune? EVERYONE CAN USE IT , stop acting dumb > > > > > > > Yes , defend mechanic we get which we get for dropping Chrono/other traitlines. > > > > > > > Any evade skill let recover cds while evading, stop acting dumb > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he's talking about False Oasis lol. > > > > > > > > > > Guess you didn't have to explain to him. > > > > > He was deliberately trolling or does not play mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > However turtle, class mechanic is ambush, not mirage cloak. > > > > > They decided to give the ambush while in mirage cloak, but the mesmer feature is to activate a new skill while dodging ( like thief while in stealth ). > > > > > > > > > > The fact that he can cast it while dodging makes him too good. > > > > > It could simply be changed giving mesmer a choice. > > > > > > > > > > I see no reason to give a class a mechanic which can't be countered, and for what he does not have to trade anything ( while i dodge, i dodge. i don't deal dmg nor i am able to cast all the skill is want. > > > > > > > > The dodge is a trade off if you use it offensively you can't use it defensively funny how that works. Jfc Mirage Cloak+Ambush are the Mirage main mechanics, both of them are. Stop cherry picking. > > > > > > It's not a trade off. > > > If I put pressure on you you dodge, and while dodging you also deal dmg. Or with your ambush or another skill. > > > If you put pressure on me and i dodge, i simply dodge. > > > > > > It's not that hard to understand where the problem lies. > > > > The problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of how Mirage works. e.g. using dodge offensively, _WHEN THERE IS NO IMMINENT DANGER IN ORDER TO DEAL MORE DAMAGE_, is the trade off since _YOU NO LONGER GET TO USE THAT DODGE FOR DEFENSE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS_ > > > > That first point is incorrect, while dodging you only deal damage with ambushes or other skills the dodge itself does not do damage unlike Daredevil. I think you also have deficiency in understanding what a unique class mechanic is. Should other classes start getting toolbelt skills because only Engi has those? Should Weaver not have attunements since other classes can't dual attune? Should Daredevil only have 2 dodges because that's how many everyone else has? > > No the problem appears to lie in your fundamental understanding of when to use dodge and when to not use it as a mesmer. > EXAMPLE 1: You are not being attacked for significant damage, so you do not dodge. Instead you rotate through your non-ambush skills like normal or do something else. > EXAMPLE 2: Your teammate is about to trigger full counter and the warrior is on top of you, you press dodge and once full counter activates (if you timed it right) you'll still be under mirage cloak and you can still activate your ambush skill. > > The ability or inability to properly utilize your dodges so that you both evade a critical damaging ability and subsequently deliver one yourself is solely on you. It has nothing to do with tradeoffs. It has everything to do with you not understanding that you save mirage cloak + ambush for the right moment. > > Further, I maintain that mesmer has become a straight upgrade on anything thief actually does and that, while I have no idea who edgelord is, I don't care because I retain the right to make someone's position on an issue into a meme whenever I want. Or your playstyle isn't advanced enough to realize when to use Mirage Cloak offensively, also you mistakenly tried to use a False Dilemma argument here, there are far more instances in combat you could use Mirage Cloak for, including offensively. And do tell me, which Mirage ambush is truly critically damaging on it's own such that saving it is necessary for the absolute right time? If anything that's as predictable as it gets. You're just another thief main that gets all uppity whenever literally anyone has any advantage over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasUmbra.5682 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > Mesmer isn't OP and hasn't been for the majority of the life of the game. In fact, I recall years when it was generally agreed that Mesmer was "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf. It's not a straightforward, "swing the sword" class. > > It requires a certain level of skill, situational awareness and knowledge to fight a reasonably proficient Mesmer. That is the reason it may be perceived as OP. Mesmer will continue to be regarded that way for as long as it wins fights. > > A big example was clone death. **It was condemned as "toxic." Yet, Necromancer has virtually the same skill and has had it since gw1.** One possible takeaway is that it's "toxic" because it's a Mesmer skill. Removing that ability downgraded quite a few builds. I'd love to see clone death return to today's aoe spam environment. > > My point is that Mesmer takes a lot of flack simply because it can be tricky to play against. Two possible paths present themselves; one is to learn the other is to scream for nerfs. > > 1) Thank you for your grammar and spelling. I can read your comment without getting a headache, unlike the rest of this thread... 2) I am a necro main learning mesmer in order to play a new toon effectively. I played it once before against another mesmer in a guild pvp arena (a year or two before I actually built characters correctly), and I can say for sure that it is quite tricky not only to play against, but to play as, too. I was a _mess_ trying to think of so many things at the same time. Now that I have more knowledge on what to pay attention to, I'm coming back to mesmer and studying the hell out of it. They most definitely aren't straightforward fighters. **The very concept of mesmers as a class is the antithesis of straightforward!** The fact that they're so good at getting into our heads and aggravating us is (partially) an example of them playing the class correctly. Basically, I agree with you on both main points. They aren't straightforward, and they can be tricky to play against because of that. Learning the class in-depth is the best way to fight against it. If you're worried enough about it, gear your build toward anti-mesmer. Find ways to counter it by evolving your build. If you "can't counter it" or it's "impossible" to do so, then you need to study up on guerrilla warfare. Know thine enemy, they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now