Daishi.6027 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > A good smart Thief is just as unkillable > > True but its impact is much lower. > > > > Disenchanter Mirage is favored in 90% of possible matchups. That's too much. > > > > Thief (at least the power based builds) can't kill 50% of its opponents as it is much more vulnerable while attacking. > > > > Thief is +1. Disenchanter is a 100% duellist. > > > > > Roll some condi bomb. > > To be fair even as a Power Reaper (against which a Disenchanter Mirage is heavily favored) player I can confirm that. A Spite/Curses/Reaper Signet based condi overload build works surprisingly well. > > > > But it's a one trick pony as Signet of Spite has a huge telegraph and won't hit a second time. Against other classes it is possible to set up Signet of Spite with a stun... against a Mirage... well... Elusive Mind. > > > > Funny that anyone is even whining about thief at all when a build that was barely meta got nerfed into oblivion and mesmer was better to begin with > > Proof that some people are just out to get thief and have no actual logic to what they're saying at all No one was complaining about thief, only trying to draw parallels. Everyone's passives got nerfed and things like Hard to Catch were bound to fall in line with that. Same with general power nerfs. It's just people arguing against there being parallels and saying that there are none and that mirage can "doge just as much if not more" that is wrong is being argued against. One can doge more with better instant burst with more chances to use it, and has been fine for years. The other has more mobility and better range poke, and people demand nerfs. there is a disconnect here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > A good smart Thief is just as unkillable > > > True but its impact is much lower. > > > > > > Disenchanter Mirage is favored in 90% of possible matchups. That's too much. > > > > > > Thief (at least the power based builds) can't kill 50% of its opponents as it is much more vulnerable while attacking. > > > > > > Thief is +1. Disenchanter is a 100% duellist. > > > > > > > Roll some condi bomb. > > > To be fair even as a Power Reaper (against which a Disenchanter Mirage is heavily favored) player I can confirm that. A Spite/Curses/Reaper Signet based condi overload build works surprisingly well. > > > > > > But it's a one trick pony as Signet of Spite has a huge telegraph and won't hit a second time. Against other classes it is possible to set up Signet of Spite with a stun... against a Mirage... well... Elusive Mind. > > > > > > > Funny that anyone is even whining about thief at all when a build that was barely meta got nerfed into oblivion and mesmer was better to begin with > > > > Proof that some people are just out to get thief and have no actual logic to what they're saying at all > > No one was complaining about thief, only trying to draw parallels. Everyone's passives got nerfed and things like Hard to Catch were bound to fall in line with that. Same with general power nerfs. It's just people arguing against there being parallels and saying that there are none and that mirage can "doge just as much if not more" that is wrong is being argued against. > > One can doge more with better instant burst with more chances to use it, and has been fine for years. The other has more mobility and better range poke, and people demand nerfs. there is a disconnect here. Apparently you missed the absurd number of threads of whining about deaths judgement, pistols thieves, stealth, larcenous/flanking strike, and thieves in general over the last 3 weeks. There was actually more whining about thief than any other class including mesmer, meanwhile you jump into a game with 2 thieves and everybody ragequits because it's impossible to win with 2 thieves In this thread its mostly parallels but at least one post specifically identifying thief as the new meta despite the obviousness of mesmer bs and thief SD got nerfed enough that I don't think it's even going to be viable anymore, and you couldn't possibly justify such a post if your life depended on it. There's LITERALLY NOTHING thief does better than mesmer at this point (well ok, thief will still be good at boon removal/unblockables but there are better classes for removing boons as well). Most of the people in here correctly identify mesmer as the problem, but a lot of people are still putting thief on a comparable level as mesmer. The thing people aren't understanding about thief is that yes, a good thief should be unkillable (except for apparently mesmer as of the release of mirage) but they give up the ability to actually fight on a point or make significant contributions to a teamfight otherwise, while classes like mirage, sb and druid can hold a point 1v1 and often 1v2+ and they also have decent mobility as well. Back on topic I guess, the main issue about mirage here is that it actually IS the most mobile class right now outside of chasing scenarios (still debatable there), and has the most or close to the most amount of immunity/defense uptime, doesn't suffer from a low HP pool or any other class specific disadvantage, has absurdly high damage and on top of all of that has the unique mechanic of spamming endless armies of clones that actually make targetting difficult even if you manage to identify the actual player. It's absolutely on a completely different level from thief or any other class for that matter and will need to be completely gutted to even find a way to exist on a fair playing field as the other classes as it stands. The fact that mesmer has seen so many nerfs and changes in the last few patches and still finds a way to STAY in the meta over and over is proof of this fact. Basically if you were to compare thief and mesmer, they're very similar classes except for the fact that thief gives up its HP pool for the things it has, and mesmer GAINS clones instead of giving something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"kappa.2036" said: > > Nothing more to say. Infinite clone spam coupled with invulns, evades, blocks, massive cc and damage. The thing that makes me angry is that everyone said it before the patch came out, and anet did absolutely nothing to change things. I'm disappointed. > > Note that this was **_not_** a balance patch, and we were told that several times leading up to it. It was a skill split patch designed at reducing the impact of passive proc traits. > > They told us that this was not a balance patch. It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"kappa.2036" said: > Nothing more to say. Infinite clone spam coupled with invulns, evades, blocks, massive cc and damage. The thing that makes me angry is that everyone said it before the patch came out, and anet did absolutely nothing to change things. I'm disappointed. Anet does not give a crap. After five years everyone should know this already. Hell even hackers aren't punished, what does that tell you about pvp?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toron.4856 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 secs no vigor regen is legit a joke. U can still stunn break twice in a row when having full endurance. The problem is the stunn break on dodge and this issue has not been taken care of. Its just a weak attempt to work around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rank eleven monk.9502 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 We are roughly half a day after update. Season is not even active yet.Totally pointless 1456th 'omg can't beat mesmer so imba' thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtoPScrub.5476 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absinthey.5340 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Logged on for the first time in a while. Went to FFA Arena. Fought a Mesmer. Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2. Been fun I guess o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > Logged on for the first time in a while. > > Went to FFA Arena. > > Fought a Mesmer. > > Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2. > > Been fun I guess o/ If people want to cry, they will cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtoPScrub.5476 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought > > > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. > > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D Mesmers in their current state dominating side nodes is about the safest bet you can make. Renegade being meta has a higher chance of happening than Mesmers not being meta lol. >Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. Which is why Anet needs to be on top of their balance game. People will put up with a lot of shit as long as the game is fun. The second it stops being fun(like when you massively outplay a Mesmer but he wins because his spec) is when people leave in droves. >And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight I fail to see how that has anything to do with balance. If literally everyone rerolled Mesmer, by that logic it would be okay? I'm not trying to be a dick, but with a 3 month wait between patches Anet can't afford to make minor changes to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 You can sit in chairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought > > > > > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. > > > > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D > > Mesmers in their current state dominating side nodes is about the safest bet you can make. Renegade being meta has a higher chance of happening than Mesmers not being meta lol. > > >Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. > > Which is why Anet needs to be on top of their balance game. People will put up with a lot of kitten as long as the game is fun. The second it stops being fun(like when you massively outplay a Mesmer but he wins because his spec) is when people leave in droves. > > >And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight > > I fail to see how that has anything to do with balance. If literally everyone rerolled Mesmer, by that logic it would be okay? I'm not trying to be a kitten, but with a 3 month wait between patches Anet can't afford to make minor changes to wait and see. Well that is not a balance problem but the frequency of balance patches then. Also if you think that GW2 is your regular MMO it is clearly not. Personally, I enjoy that :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 to ease your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtoPScrub.5476 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought > > > > > > > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. > > > > > > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D > > > > Mesmers in their current state dominating side nodes is about the safest bet you can make. Renegade being meta has a higher chance of happening than Mesmers not being meta lol. > > > > >Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. > > > > Which is why Anet needs to be on top of their balance game. People will put up with a lot of kitten as long as the game is fun. The second it stops being fun(like when you massively outplay a Mesmer but he wins because his spec) is when people leave in droves. > > > > >And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight > > > > I fail to see how that has anything to do with balance. If literally everyone rerolled Mesmer, by that logic it would be okay? I'm not trying to be a kitten, but with a 3 month wait between patches Anet can't afford to make minor changes to wait and see. > > Well that is not a balance problem but the frequency of balance patches then. Also if you think that GW2 is your regular MMO it is clearly not. Personally, I enjoy that :-) I definitely agree with you that the balance patches need to be far more frequent. A patch every 2 weeks with small amounts of changes focused in one area is the best way to respond to overpowered and underpowered classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D Nah its not too early to tell. In fact smart players already foreseen it. The game has been around 5 years. And players who have been around since launch have noticed a pattern with Anet's balancing habits and the strength of professions. Each time something is called out it always happens. Remember when anet gave necro access to burning? A lot of players were like DON"T DO IT! But anet did it anyway. And for months and months everyone had to deal with it, then they removed it because it was in fact over powered. Its not hard to tell what will end up overpowered in this game. In fact its very very easy. Right now Mesmer is overpowered and so is scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdagger.9670 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Mesmer has always been powerful so nothing changes after the last re-design of it. It even becomes more powerful now thanks to pvp designers. Seriously, It's a way of Anet saying; Mesmer will rule them all, deal with it. Okay! We understand you are so in love with mesmer Anet, but one thing you should consider; Pvp community is getting destroyed! Do something before it's too late, Maybe it's time to hire new pvp developers, huh? Cuz we are sick and tired of their failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought > > > > > > > > > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave. > > > > > > > > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D > > > > > > Mesmers in their current state dominating side nodes is about the safest bet you can make. Renegade being meta has a higher chance of happening than Mesmers not being meta lol. > > > > > > >Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released. > > > > > > Which is why Anet needs to be on top of their balance game. People will put up with a lot of kitten as long as the game is fun. The second it stops being fun(like when you massively outplay a Mesmer but he wins because his spec) is when people leave in droves. > > > > > > >And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight > > > > > > I fail to see how that has anything to do with balance. If literally everyone rerolled Mesmer, by that logic it would be okay? I'm not trying to be a kitten, but with a 3 month wait between patches Anet can't afford to make minor changes to wait and see. > > > > Well that is not a balance problem but the frequency of balance patches then. Also if you think that GW2 is your regular MMO it is clearly not. Personally, I enjoy that :-) > > I definitely agree with you that the balance patches need to be far more frequent. A patch every 2 weeks with small amounts of changes focused in one area is the best way to respond to overpowered and underpowered classes. See, this is the biggest issue tbh, they just did a major rework of a class mechanic (a much needed change) and left it for nearly 2 months and we get a skill split patch to ease the issues. It seems ANet doesn’t have the resources to do a tweak on the regular basis that such a rework would require. I mean I got hit by illusionary rogue the other day for 10k, I’m all for it doing decent damage but that’s a little excessive given there’s only really 2 traits that affect its damage and I didn’t give the guy a 1/2s to build any might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarox.9601 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 mesmers are Anet's babies now like scourges untill they get tired of them so massive nerf will come in, couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > mesmers are Anet's babies now like scourges untill they get tired of them so massive nerf will come in, couple of months. I wish they would just nerf the flavor of the month without inadvertently creating a new flavor of the month, single-handedly dominant profession for at least one season. This is every season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannigan.9831 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Don't worry in 2 months or so Anet will take another stab at it. I mean its sad really all it would take was 5 minutes of research on the forums for them to get a few changes that could bring Mesmers more in line tommorrow. That's why it angers me not makes me happy when they show up here because they don't really listen. They are like the boss that asks for your opinion on a new initiative because they claim to really value it and then when the new changes are rolled out almost none of the employees suggestions make it in. Its the same dumb cylce they miss on a class in a balance pass and then we have to live with it for an additional 10-12 weeks instead of taking immediate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 True Mesmer is totally OP. Just had a match with 2 mesmer in enemy team and none in our own team. We only barely won by a few points because our team played far superior rotations. Otherwise it would have been free win for the mesmers which were not even close to someone like helseth level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > Logged on for the first time in a while. > > Went to FFA Arena. > > Fought a Mesmer. > > Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2. > > Been fun I guess o/ +1 **If You Change Nothing,** **Nothing Will Change"** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Warrior Lord.7248 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 ...but we can sit in chairs now... All jokes aside mesmers are not OP they just keep adjusting AKA bug fixes according to anet and nerfing other classes at the same time. Well dang guess that does make mesmers OP sort of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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