Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

 

You don't need either:

Wait for full malice or kill the marked target to instagib with DE.

But I'm pretty sure as a thief you know that.

 

[will de grijze jager.6594]

1 problem of the mesmer is the shatter damage and how easy mesmer can stack 25 might. Nerfing those 2 should solve something. With Mesmer you can 1 shot combo someone by using skil mantra of distration, sword 3 swap, dodge, gs2, gs3, gs 3 F1 . I'm not good at mesmer, but even i can use the whole combo and downing someone. That shows how broken mesmer is. In combination wiht the insta cast of Mantra even if you have a stun break they will use it again and you will be down most of the time. And you don't even need to be good with it. Think about someone that is good with mesmer they are gods in game now.

[apharma.3741]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> 1 problem of the mesmer is the shatter damage and how easy mesmer can stack 25 might. Nerfing those 2 should solve something. With Mesmer you can 1 shot combo someone by using skil mantra of distration, sword 3 swap, dodge, gs2, gs3, gs 3 F1 . I'm not good at mesmer, but even i can use the whole combo and downing someone. That shows how broken mesmer is. In combination wiht the insta cast of Mantra even if you have a stun break they will use it again and you will be down most of the time. And you don't even need to be good with it. Think about someone that is good with mesmer they are gods in game now.

 

If you’re killing someone with such a well telegraphed rotation especially after opening with a stun then it isn’t the mesmer being OP it’s the person getting killed who let you do all that. You have at least 2s of cast times alone in that rotation, if they did nothing for 2s it is entirely their fault. Even putting in the 1s stun from nerfed CS they had a full second to pull their fingers out of the Doritos and hit the dodge key.

 

Before someone starts twisting it, this is me saying his example is proof he is playing vs a potato and not about what is truly too strong on mirage.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> 1 problem of the mesmer is the shatter damage and how easy mesmer can stack 25 might. Nerfing those 2 should solve something. With Mesmer you can 1 shot combo someone by using skil mantra of distration, sword 3 swap, dodge, gs2, gs3, gs 3 F1 . I'm not good at mesmer, but even i can use the whole combo and downing someone. That shows how broken mesmer is. In combination wiht the insta cast of Mantra even if you have a stun break they will use it again and you will be down most of the time. And you don't even need to be good with it. Think about someone that is good with mesmer they are gods in game now.

 

That's close enough to my instagib combo:

torch 4, walk in circles, gs2, going to the kitchen and pick up some water, back in game, f3, type /dance, jaunt, f1, say some stuff on chat, gs3. - instagib I tell you!

 

If more proof was needed than most people complaining about mes doesn't have a clue about the profession.

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > So my question is why 35k crits that instagib from stealth is fine but 16k crits from defender(why ppl hitting him anyway?) that visible and AFK stationary is not ok ?

>

> My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

The act of being killed exceeding quickly. Standardly 1 shot. ©

I meant it for 1 hit->death , not counting time that he spend AFK in stealth .

Its not so obscenely visible imo : https://imgur.com/a/jzBeN . So in team fight very easy to not notice this. Why i supposed to die in 1 hit because of this poorly made animation ? Nonsense

So i quotted zoop many times and as i think i proven his statements are not that correct.

Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

((I still not calling for nerfs, i want to know reasons behind this))

[Math.5123]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

 

Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

>

> Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

>

>

 

Doesnt matter how much HP/evades/blocks you have if nothing can hit you , get it ? Paladin mesmer doesnt get 35k(actually give me exact numbers if you want) explosions from defender, convience me better ?

[Evolute.6239]

Mesmer just has too much boon access, and when combined with chronophantasma builds, it's broken. Portal alone is nearly enough for the class to stay viable regardless of its damage states.

 

It's really annoying how they get perma protection and random aegis procs, as if their distort/sword2/potential shield 4 didn't exist. When you combine insane druid-like durability with gross damage potential and thief rotations, it's extremely broken.

 

Pretty nuts how it's managed to get this far really lol.

[Math.5123]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> >

> > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> >

> >

>

> Doesnt matter how much HP/evades/blocks you have if nothing can hit you , get it ? Paladin mesmer doesnt get 35k(actually give me exact numbers if you want) explosions from defender, convience me better ?

 

You go to disgusting levels to refrain Mesmer from getting nerfed, don't you? Isn't it embarrassing?

[Odik.4587]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> > >

> > > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Doesnt matter how much HP/evades/blocks you have if nothing can hit you , get it ? Paladin mesmer doesnt get 35k(actually give me exact numbers if you want) explosions from defender, convience me better ?

>

> You go to disgusting levels to refrain Mesmer from getting nerfed, don't you? Isn't it embarrassing?

If you understand that i agree on most stuff ,why would i do that? (OMEGALUL WHAT U TALKING ABOUT? I'm only one person here that want it to be reworked ,its just ahaha)

You avoid direct answer still

[Math.5123]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> >

> > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> >

> >

>

> Doesnt matter how much HP/evades/blocks you have if nothing can hit you , get it ? Paladin mesmer doesnt get 35k(actually give me exact numbers if you want) explosions from defender, convience me better ?

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> > > >

> > > > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Doesnt matter how much HP/evades/blocks you have if nothing can hit you , get it ? Paladin mesmer doesnt get 35k(actually give me exact numbers if you want) explosions from defender, convience me better ?

> >

> > You go to disgusting levels to refrain Mesmer from getting nerfed, don't you? Isn't it embarrassing?

> If you understand that i agree on most stuff ,why would i do that? (OMEGALUL WHAT U TALKING ABOUT? I'm only one person here that want it to be reworked ,its just ahaha)

> You avoid direct answer still

 

You don't see how the answer is obvious? Deadeye is a high risk low reward spec, while Chronomancer is a low risk high reward spec. That's about as direct as it gets.

[Odik.4587]

But what you are risking if you being constantly in stealth, as reward you kill people with 1 hit ...

Its doesnt fit for coqnuest thus should exist?

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high. A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all. The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd. Also PvP and Pve Changes can be separate no reason why the changes to PvP needs to happen for Pve. We already get those changes from time to time and even though defender is visible it still doesn't change the fact it can possibly one shot you or anyone else on the team with no issues at all. At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

> >

> > Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot then they'll be crying for nerfs just how they are for mesmers(for multiple reasons as to why). In no game should any class be able to "melt" or "one-shot" a "tank" within a second(s) during a fight. It Kills the game play/defeats the purpose being a "tank".

>

> >> a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high

> What series of abilities ? For what reason GS combo shatter was nerfed if its 'series of abilities' ?

> You need to use F1 and wait till your malice reach maximum stacks,kneel,press 4. Its a single hit that have highest damage when conditions are met.(That kill player with a single hit)

> We can count you wrong here ? Defender need condition to be met as well.

> >A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all

> You are wrong here ;) . Read description of a defender . Its need to be hit 10 times within its block duration and be very close it . You said its need NOTHING TO BE MET FOR THE RANDOM ONE SHOT.

> > Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot

> Why its foolish ? Both abilities need conditions to be met to deal its maximum damage , both are not instant .

> >The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd.

> Its cooldown is 50 seconds (can be gained through signet but still its cooldown is not less than 30) . Death Judgement have no cooldown.

> I alrdy said : its need a rework with chronophantasma.

> >At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

> Not everyone have insta reflect on demand ? Barriers? For me its hard to see mark because how poorly made animation especially when things happen in chaotic teamfight or sounds of every character shouting stuff/sound effects.

> >At least with a deadeye we can counter.

> As counterplay to defender i can only suggest to stop attacking him and standing next ot him in same time? Its not invisible, your teammates can read ?

> If you noticed I didnt ask for DE nerfs or defend current Defender.

> Dont exaggerate that much pls .

 

So you ignored the ONE ability i named and went into a GS/Shatter argument when the subject i brought up was a completely different ability. If you want to be a Die hard mesmer fanboy then by all means go ahead but leave the nonsense out when it comes to balancing.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

>

> Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

>

>

 

Mesmer only has access to 4 sources of Aegis, one is with Chrono, one is RNG based from Prismatic Understanding, one is from fully charging Mantra of Stability (That is charging it with 0 charges which is extremely interruptable no problem for someone with Headshot access), and one is RNG from Chaos Storm. That is not extreme access. Mesmer has 3 blocks total, one on Scepter, one on OH Sword, and one on Shield. That is not extreme access. We have one source of Distortion on a 50 second cd if you can't play around a 4 second interval every 50 seconds maybe you need a slower paced game. Base health for Mesmer is 16k. Anyone's health is going to be higher with a defensive amulet on, that's called misreprensentation.

 

Thief does not have very limited evades this is just... wow. /facepalm. You have access to no less than 10 evade skills some of which are spammable on weapons.

[Math.5123]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> >

> > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> >

> >

>

> Mesmer only has access to 4 sources of Aegis, one is with Chrono, one is RNG based from Prismatic Understanding, one is from fully charging Mantra of Stability (That is charging it with 0 charges which is extremely interruptable no problem for someone with Headshot access), and one is RNG from Chaos Storm. That is not extreme access. Mesmer has 3 blocks total, one on Scepter, one on OH Sword, and one on Shield. That is not extreme access. We have one source of Distortion on a 50 second cd if you can't play around a 4 second interval every 50 seconds maybe you need a slower paced game. Base health for Mesmer is 16k. Anyone's health is going to be higher with a defensive amulet on, that's called misreprensentation.

>

> Thief does not have very limited evades this is just... wow. /facepalm. You have access to no less than 10 evade skills some of which are spammable on weapons.

 

x4 shield 4's with CS + Signet of Ether is extreme block uptime. The RNG Aegis is just the cream on top.

RIfle zerk Deadeye, which was the spec in question here runs Shadow Refuge, Power Signet + either Roll for Initiative or the deadeye KD. It runs Hide in Shadows and deadeye elite. It has no access to vigor. So no, it has very limited access to evades. "While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet." I clearly stated the amulet.

[Valis.5907]

Classic deflection... this is NOT a Deadeye thread - its a Mesmer thread. I'm seeing an average of 3-4 Mesmers in EVERY. SINGLE. RANKED. MATCH. How can any rational person think this is balanced or fun?

[bLind.6278]

Why the fuck are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

 

NOTHING.

 

They don't give a fuck. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

[Odik.4587]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> x4 shield 4's with CS + Signet of Ether is extreme block uptime. The RNG Aegis is just the cream on top.

> RIfle zerk Deadeye, which was the spec in question here runs Shadow Refuge, Power Signet + either Roll for Initiative or the deadeye KD. It runs Hide in Shadows and deadeye elite. It has no access to vigor. So no, it has very limited access to evades. "While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet." I clearly stated the amulet.

I actually only wanted to know why its allowed to kill people with single shot, i dont see them risking anything being in stealth constantly. I'm least interested in chronomancers (btw you cant say chrono have double shield in CS because you need to waste entire split using both blocks with max duration of split,shield4 will go on cooldown if you didnt used shield4 after split and fully went on cooldown before leaving CS, or may be i misunderstood you somehow? On top of that value from CS is much higher if you use elite +something else). We can end discussion about them because its going nowhere ...

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"bLind.6278" said:

> Why the kitten are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

>

> NOTHING.

>

> They don't give a kitten. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

 

I wish they would see my post with Chronophantasma removal/rework/fix (that its need to be changed first) but i honestly dont know how.. giving phantasm skills ammo doesnt prevent spam of phantams and screen clutter , in fact making things even worse ...

[Milan.9035]

just came here because had a few matches vs these raid boss mesmers. is this a bug or something? why is this not fixed yet lol. i guess soon everyone will be top 250 cause that will be the total population of pvp

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > Answer me ,why you defend real one shot that does 35k in 1 blow ? Isnt that what Zoop said shouldnt ever happen ?

> > >

> > > Because one comes from an 11k HP class with no access to Prot / blocks / Invulns and very limited evades. While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet. Permanent Protection, extreme access to blocks with both aegis and shield 4. It also has distorts + double blinks on the meta build.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Mesmer only has access to 4 sources of Aegis, one is with Chrono, one is RNG based from Prismatic Understanding, one is from fully charging Mantra of Stability (That is charging it with 0 charges which is extremely interruptable no problem for someone with Headshot access), and one is RNG from Chaos Storm. That is not extreme access. Mesmer has 3 blocks total, one on Scepter, one on OH Sword, and one on Shield. That is not extreme access. We have one source of Distortion on a 50 second cd if you can't play around a 4 second interval every 50 seconds maybe you need a slower paced game. Base health for Mesmer is 16k. Anyone's health is going to be higher with a defensive amulet on, that's called misreprensentation.

> >

> > Thief does not have very limited evades this is just... wow. /facepalm. You have access to no less than 10 evade skills some of which are spammable on weapons.

>

> x4 shield 4's with CS + Signet of Ether is extreme block uptime. The RNG Aegis is just the cream on top.

> RIfle zerk Deadeye, which was the spec in question here runs Shadow Refuge, Power Signet + either Roll for Initiative or the deadeye KD. It runs Hide in Shadows and deadeye elite. It has no access to vigor. So no, it has very limited access to evades. "While the other comes from a 22k HP class on with a toughness amulet." I clearly stated the amulet.

 

You can interrupt the signet and just not hit the Block, there's half the block duration nullified. Oh wow, you lost going glass zerk against literally anyone with defensive stats, that's so surprising.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"bLind.6278" said:

> > Why the kitten are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

> >

> > NOTHING.

> >

> > They don't give a kitten. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

>

> I wish they would see my post with Chronophantasma removal/rework/fix (that its need to be changed first) but i honestly dont know how.. giving phantasm skills ammo doesnt prevent spam of phantams and screen clutter , in fact making things even worse ...

 

Give each ammunition a modest cooldown between uses. Chronophantasma no longer resummons phantasms. Boom, fixed.

[Odik.4587]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"bLind.6278" said:

> > > Why the kitten are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

> > >

> > > NOTHING.

> > >

> > > They don't give a kitten. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

> >

> > I wish they would see my post with Chronophantasma removal/rework/fix (that its need to be changed first) but i honestly dont know how.. giving phantasm skills ammo doesnt prevent spam of phantams and screen clutter , in fact making things even worse ...

>

> Give each ammunition a modest cooldown between uses. there, fixed.

 

Thats wont be fixed at all, as long chrono/double phantasms exist there would be problems with new persistance of memory,phantasmal haste/phantasmal force.

So we could keep it as it is without further need to nerf it.

Alacrity with 50% efficency would make this 'modest' cooldown looks like it has none on top. Even if dont give it ammo but reduce phantasm recharge by 50% still kinda too strong... May be if reduce phantasms recharge by X%(adjust numbers by 'Anet') and gives them bonus damage X% but increased efficency in PvE(like 60% reduced and damage buffed by 10-30% ,just random numbers so DPS mesmer would be viable in raids/fractals etc). Everyone possibly would be happy

(Stop arguing about DE btw)

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"bLind.6278" said:

> > > > Why the kitten are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

> > > >

> > > > NOTHING.

> > > >

> > > > They don't give a kitten. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

> > >

> > > I wish they would see my post with Chronophantasma removal/rework/fix (that its need to be changed first) but i honestly dont know how.. giving phantasm skills ammo doesnt prevent spam of phantams and screen clutter , in fact making things even worse ...

> >

> > Give each ammunition a modest cooldown between uses. there, fixed.

>

> Thats wont be fixed at all, as long chrono/double phantasms exist there would be problems with new persistance of memory,phantasmal haste/phantasmal force.

> So we could keep it as it is without further need to nerf it.

> Alacrity with 50% efficency would make this 'modest' cooldown looks like it has none on top. Even if dont give it ammo but reduce phantasm recharge by 50% still kinda too strong... May be if reduce phantasms recharge by X%(adjust numbers by 'Anet') and gives them bonus damage X% but increased efficency in PvE(like 60% reduced and damage buffed by 10-30% ,just random numbers so DPS mesmer would be viable in raids/fractals etc). Everyone possibly would be happy

> (Stop arguing about DE btw)

 

Keeping it as is is the problem. The visual clutter is what's annoying people. Modest cooldown would be roughly 50-70% of the phantasms base cooldown. The fact that the double phantasms self propagate is what's pissing people off. People already cry about phantasm damage increasing it is going to make it worse. Reducing the base cooldown is the same thing as giving them an ammo system, mathematically

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"bLind.6278" said:

> Why the kitten are people still in this thread? Anet doesn't care about PvP balance. Anet had a chance to balance mesmer before the season started and they did NOTHING.

>

> NOTHING.

>

> They don't give a kitten. This isn't a PvP game. Don't give them suggestions, they're NOT LISTENING.

 

The last balance patch was terrific all around. Even the mesmer nerfs were excellent ones, even if there are other areas that need serious consideration. I don't blame Arenanet being gunshy about nerfing mesmer after the biggest class rework in GW2's history. The fact that all mesmer feedback was consolodated into one that that we know the balance team is reading is proof enough that they care. And while mesmer is overtuned and the phantasm spam is gross, it isn't game ruinously awful the way Bunker Chrono meta with zero deaths on each team until time out was.

 

Chill.