Math.5123

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Ur last sentence perfectly shows how badly designed dh is and why it needs reworked. > > its not dh, its permeating wrath + symbolic power. It's only permeating wrath. Making the burn aoe and trigger twice as often (I know it's 40%) is the issue.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > being killed by traps while DH is on the other side of the map is not a problem with trapper rune. > > > > thats true. i wasn't talking about trapper rune. > > My bad, probably misunderstood if you were making another point. > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > If you somehow managed to get tethered, you can counter it with stab, stunbreak when the pull happens or running out of range to break the tether. It does not function like magebane tether. > > This is true. > > > Just because you choose to ignore all the ways to counter a skill doesn't make it good. > > This is true. > > > It's not untrue. You can dodge the first application of Spear. It has almost a second cast time. There is no excuse to ever being hit by it. > > Trapper rune stealth application. What you fail to realize is that is a dh uses spear, he loses almost all his damage. Over 80% of the damage comes from the passive proc.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Starbreaker.6507" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > the best is when the dh leaves a full trap bomb on point then walks to the other side of them map and kills you when you try to cap said point. cuz skill boys. > > > > Yep, totally the DH's fault that people are oblivious and waddle onto a point thinking it would be a 100% clear. > > > > Too bad demanding nerfs doesn't make the remaining playerbase any smarter > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > Dh has no unevadable pulls. > > Just felt like quoteposting this because it was funny. > > Also, while the second one is just untrue, being killed by traps while DH is on the other side of the map is not a problem with trapper rune. > > It's not untrue. You can dodge the first application of Spear. It has almost a second cast time. There is no excuse to ever being hit by it. If you somehow managed to get tethered, you can counter it with stab, stunbreak when the pull happens or running out of range to break the tether. It does not function like magebane tether. Just because you choose to ignore all the ways to counter a skill doesn't make it good.

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > The problem is less trapper rune and more: > > > 1. Reveal on hit for stealth is a bad mechanic for PvP > > > 2. DH has two unevadeable CC pulls, which combined with Reveal-on-hit makes for uninteractive and unskillful "spam AoEs " gameplay > > > > > > If you fixed stealth and removed unevadeables ( No skill needs to be unevadeable unless you are trash. Learn to count your opponents dodges ) trapper rune would be fine. > > > > Dh has no unevadable pulls. > > Hunters Verdict is unevadeable, and anyone who can't land SoJ from stealth is literally the worst DH in the entire game. > > Dragons maw is practically unevadeable. The skill itself is technically evadeable, but the AoE CC it creates when triggered is not. Thing is, evading through the trap triggers it. So the skill is for all intensive purposes unevadeable. You can also buffer/precast the skill into a teleport to instant-cast it on someone from long range -dodging this will not work even with godlike reflexes since you will still trigger the unevadeable AoE. > First of all, if a dh is using his Spear. He loses all the damage from SoJ, which is about 90% of the damage on burn dh. So you should be happy if he uses it. Means you won the fight. You realize you can leap through the trap, run through with a block, with one stack of aegis, dodgeroll through, or simply stab it. I'm not defending trapper rune or burn dh. But you're targeting the wrong areas. > @"Shao.7236" said: > @"Math.5123" Test of faith still hit for 5k on Marauders, it's not unreasonably hard to get multiple hits along the other skills either and that's without Radiance. It's above the typical burst you see in the game of around 10k before people evade randomly and that keeps it in a good place. > > Deflecting Shot being slower is debatable as a bad thing, before it was pretty instant, more reasons to get good at it because instant is annoyingly cheesy for the game. All CC's lost damage so nothing new here for the pace of everything else. > > Never found a reason to cheese my way at it with Judge Intervention as it gets boring, feels like everyone want that in their build while Signet of Judgement is equally good over time and after for the sustain part of things, plays at a lower CD for the stunbreak. I get it. Must jump on people by port, trap, true shot, deflecting shot at the same time but because that one takes longer doesn't mean you can't swap and shield push instead, there's other ways to combine Deflecting Shot reliably regardless. > > Afaik having to put more effort into it often means "slowed down" these days but I'll never agree to it, bringing a bunker in the topic won't have me change my mind either. Have yet to see one survive a proper not key mash 1v2, the moment I'll be seeing bunkers like Chrono/Scrapper that can sit directly on node like in 2016 then I'll express some concerns. You never used JI for the damage or the stunbreak. You used it for mobilty and chase potential, and the extra healing and fury from monks focus. Marauder dh won't kill a scrapper, weaver or Renegade even if they unbind their dodge.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Honestly all those DH underpowered claims. I guess Meditrapper never was a thing? I remember playing it, I still see people playing it. (Mes afaik) Was decent and fun. > > > > > > > > > > An ICD won't kill the build but make decisions something to value upon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meditrapper was a thing in an entirely different meta. It was one of my main picks during the late HoT era, I remember how PoF dropped midseason (yes they released a whole expansion in the middle of a PvP season) and that was the last time meditrapper was meta. Scourge took over the area denial role, and there was excessive amount of stability and stunbreaks flying around. Not to mention reflects became common because of deadeyes. > > > > DH currently is underpowered. Go ahead and play power DH with Lynx rune instead of Trappers. It's definitely possible, but it's like playing staff ele or core engineer... of course you can but why would you? Do you hate yourself that much? > > > > > > Don't recall Meditrapper to be an AoE denial type of role, more like a 1v1 sidenodder with some form of control normally. > > > > > > Doesn't have to be meta to be viable, it's honestly still good and fun to play on, the main source of damage which is Test of Faith was not even touched in term of damage either. The flow is relatively the same so really, it's just as good as it was back then because everything was toned down. Sure, it can be more effort to play on but that's the fun part of it. Are reflects that much of an issue? Why is Renegade Shortbow not having that problem then? I think it doesn't really matter if you manage projectiles right. > > > > > > Asking me if I hate myself that much? I play Core Revenant on a daily basis in several ways, not counting other Herald or Renegade variants with a great deal of success. > > > > No, it's not the same as it was. Trueshot has double the cooldown. Deflecting shot no longer deals damage, has an additional. 75s cast time and half the travel speed. > > Spear or justice has 3 times the cast speed. > > Sword 2 lost 50% of its initial damage. Smite condition and lesser smite condition lost 95% (yes, 95%) of its damage. > > Judges intervention lost 66% of its dmg. Hunters ward became backloaded. > > Test of faith received an internal cooldown. > > Traps no longer daze. Hunters determination got removed from the game. > > > > Should I keep going? > > > > I'm not arguing wether or not the class is strong or weak, I'm just saying that your claim of "its just as good as it was relative to everything else" is false. > > Yeah sure.. Let's point out everything alone in a vacuum while forgetting that everything in the game also was affected. You can't be for real either, caring about some of the big cheese of it that was fixed too, test of faith having an internal cooldown? Must have been carrying people back in the days, because I picked it up again and it's not really changing the pace at all. > > Like said, relative to everything else right now. It's fine and the word should be going by. I didn't point out things in a vacuum. I simply listed the changes that has slowed down the pace of the class immensely. Also, Valor (medi) dh doesn't have enough damage to kill a single duelist right now. To have the slightest kill potential you have to drop Valor for radiance, in which case it loses all sustain.

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > The problem is less trapper rune and more: > 1. Reveal on hit for stealth is a bad mechanic for PvP > 2. DH has two unevadeable CC pulls, which combined with Reveal-on-hit makes for uninteractive and unskillful "spam AoEs " gameplay > > If you fixed stealth and removed unevadeables ( No skill needs to be unevadeable unless you are trash. Learn to count your opponents dodges ) trapper rune would be fine. Dh has no unevadable pulls.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Honestly all those DH underpowered claims. I guess Meditrapper never was a thing? I remember playing it, I still see people playing it. (Mes afaik) Was decent and fun. > > > > > > An ICD won't kill the build but make decisions something to value upon. > > > > > > > > > > Meditrapper was a thing in an entirely different meta. It was one of my main picks during the late HoT era, I remember how PoF dropped midseason (yes they released a whole expansion in the middle of a PvP season) and that was the last time meditrapper was meta. Scourge took over the area denial role, and there was excessive amount of stability and stunbreaks flying around. Not to mention reflects became common because of deadeyes. > > DH currently is underpowered. Go ahead and play power DH with Lynx rune instead of Trappers. It's definitely possible, but it's like playing staff ele or core engineer... of course you can but why would you? Do you hate yourself that much? > > Don't recall Meditrapper to be an AoE denial type of role, more like a 1v1 sidenodder with some form of control normally. > > Doesn't have to be meta to be viable, it's honestly still good and fun to play on, the main source of damage which is Test of Faith was not even touched in term of damage either. The flow is relatively the same so really, it's just as good as it was back then because everything was toned down. Sure, it can be more effort to play on but that's the fun part of it. Are reflects that much of an issue? Why is Renegade Shortbow not having that problem then? I think it doesn't really matter if you manage projectiles right. > > Asking me if I hate myself that much? I play Core Revenant on a daily basis in several ways, not counting other Herald or Renegade variants with a great deal of success. No, it's not the same as it was. Trueshot has double the cooldown. Deflecting shot no longer deals damage, has an additional. 75s cast time and half the travel speed. Spear or justice has 3 times the cast speed. Sword 2 lost 50% of its initial damage. Smite condition and lesser smite condition lost 95% (yes, 95%) of its damage. Judges intervention lost 66% of its dmg. Hunters ward became backloaded. Test of faith received an internal cooldown. Traps no longer daze. Hunters determination got removed from the game. Should I keep going? I'm not arguing wether or not the class is strong or weak, I'm just saying that your claim of "its just as good as it was relative to everything else" is false.

> @"Buran.3796" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > No, they don't. Spellbreaker has far more ways to avoid damage as well as resustaining than say, a firebrand. > > > > There are other examples. > > At the current moment FB has way worse sustain than core Guardian or DH. He's right in the sense that in this game skills and traits matter more than brute stats in terms of both sustain and damage. Also, the difference in armor stats from wearing clothes and heavy plates is almost meaningless: a Elementalist wearing Nomad or Minstrel gear will be on paper more tanky than a Guardian, Warrior or Revenant wearing zerker stats, but if the same Elementalist is riding a fresh air glass canon build and the other ones bunker/support builds the later will have better sustain. > > At some point this game has in PvP ~30 different amulets even with selectable cores to mixup stats, and more than a dozen usable runes and sigils. Now the variety of usable amulets, runes and sigils have been halved; the last thing it needs is resseting all the clases to have the same HP and armor. Also won't ever happen because traits and skills were already balanced around the basic stats of each class, so making a tabula rasa would be a nightmare in terms of time needed to re-balance all again (by the way, ANet already did a complete rebalance a year ago... just to leave PvP unsupported again). > > And finally, if you don't like the complexity of having rooks, horses, bishops and pawns on the table just stop playing chess and go play checkers... I never said I didn't like the complexity, I said the values of health or armor are outdated. Look at pvp, right now. Isn't it funny how the tankiest class in the game is the class with the lowest health and armor class? I agree that every class should get a standardized value, be it 15k and medium armor or something else. But you would have to balance things accordingly. You have classes like thief that would be damn near unkillable with another 4k health slapped on. While a class like zerk ele or zerk guard would get a much needed buffer. I think you may have misunderstood the intent of my post.

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > Professions with less HP have more mechanics do deal with damage. Stat wise it it can limit builds No, they don't. Spellbreaker has far more ways to avoid damage as well as resustaining than say, a firebrand. There are other examples.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thief > > > Guardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around. > > > Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver > > > > > > So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard. > > > > > > I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian". > > > > A good thief scams guardian in WvW, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on PvP alone (even if this is the PvP-sub). If anything, however, this is a fine proof of thief's sad state in PvP overall. > > > > Guardian's by no means the apex of PvP power scale - limited mobility and lack of passive defense traits see to that. > > No, you cannot draw any conclusions from WvW to sPvP, especially for thief. Thief is not killable in WvW, can reset any times they want. This is not true in sPvP, where there are other objectives. > > Core support guardian is becoming popular, bunker guards are also unkillable in 1v1 or even 2v1, burn core guard and burn trapper DH can potentially wipe out 3-4 opponents. Get on this unkillable core bunker guard and I'll 2v1 you. See if you actually last 10 seconds. Spite reaper can also *potentially* wipe out 3-4 opponents. Trapper runes are the only issue. Once they go, burn guard is dead. Where it should be.

> @"Albert.3574" said: > system already match class blance > then Q in they all start change class > change back ren...guard...then my party 1holo +1thief+1mes+1necro+spb fight 3 ren + 2dh > ? Because a zerk guard + str spellbreaker does not cover the same roles as healbreaker and burn dh. Classes don't matter, roles do.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > There is not a single spec on ranger considered even Great as far as meta goes, the highest ranger spec is rated at Good ...lol > Decap druid is basically played on every monthly and daily at winning team right now. But I guess that doesn't count.

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > Not sure why you want to have another clusterkitten added. SoJ is super easy to avoid - unless you are chain CCed of course, but if that was the case, indicator won't help you. Because you don't know if it's your teams or the enemies.

Also for acid bomb.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather they add a little more...What to call it, variety? Depth? To the setup. Traps as a concept are all well and good, but maybe it isn't a good idea to have a trap with such narrow counters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stability, blocks, ports out, invul. Does not seem narrow at all to counter it .. just saying if you get stuck on it with 0 cooldows yes i see how you can die to it but thats not dm fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stability works. > > > > > > > > invuln works > > > > > > > > block does not work, you get cced back into the trap > > > > > > > > teleports kind of work, you do teleport but when teleport ends you still get knocked down. > > > > > > > > As a mesmer I never really gave a kitten cuz I had jaunt/blink and F4, but when I started playing ranger its kitten awfull. > > > > > > > > god forbids you dont have 100% cooldowns else you dead from full hp, no counterplay. > > > > > > > > like the only thing you can do is dodge out, and use stun-break during knockdown animation, and hope to gods that the trap bugs and lets you out, otherwise you die from full hp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On ranger you have 3/4 cleanse utilities. Meaning you can cleanse the stacks whenever they get out of hand if you don't have the stability to get out. How is this any different from the old holo that could 100 to zero you in a prime light beam you didn't dodge? > > > > > > > > > > > > difference is that holo cant do that anymore and DH can. > > > > > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, burn dh is beyond dumb. But Maw or damage isn't the reason. > > > > > > > > > > Any class with triple offensive trait-lines and no stunbreak will be able to pump. Just remove trapper runes and the build will be gone. > > > > > > > > Then trapper ranger is also gone, killing 2 builds for reason of one? > > > > > > Does anyone really want to see trapper rangers every game? It's just as obnoxious, just not as effective. Same with old trapper thief. > > > > With removing the rune they destroy one build that was not needed to be destroyed. > > And by keeping the rune they destroy an enitre gamemode that was not needed to be destroyed lol. Are we seriously justifying trapper DH with trapper ranger now? Agreed, the rune is anti fun to play against. Its just that trap dh is a stronger build than trap ranger. They are both equally unfun to play vs.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > > > I'd rather they add a little more...What to call it, variety? Depth? To the setup. Traps as a concept are all well and good, but maybe it isn't a good idea to have a trap with such narrow counters. > > > > > > > > Stability, blocks, ports out, invul. Does not seem narrow at all to counter it .. just saying if you get stuck on it with 0 cooldows yes i see how you can die to it but thats not dm fault. > > > > > > stability works. > > > invuln works > > > block does not work, you get cced back into the trap > > > teleports kind of work, you do teleport but when teleport ends you still get knocked down. > > > As a mesmer I never really gave a kitten cuz I had jaunt/blink and F4, but when I started playing ranger its kitten awfull. > > > god forbids you dont have 100% cooldowns else you dead from full hp, no counterplay. > > > like the only thing you can do is dodge out, and use stun-break during knockdown animation, and hope to gods that the trap bugs and lets you out, otherwise you die from full hp > > > > On ranger you have 3/4 cleanse utilities. Meaning you can cleanse the stacks whenever they get out of hand if you don't have the stability to get out. How is this any different from the old holo that could 100 to zero you in a prime light beam you didn't dodge? > > difference is that holo cant do that anymore and DH can. Don't get me wrong, burn dh is beyond dumb. But Maw or damage isn't the reason. Any class with triple offensive trait-lines and no stunbreak will be able to pump. Just remove trapper runes and the build will be gone.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > I'd rather they add a little more...What to call it, variety? Depth? To the setup. Traps as a concept are all well and good, but maybe it isn't a good idea to have a trap with such narrow counters. > > > > Stability, blocks, ports out, invul. Does not seem narrow at all to counter it .. just saying if you get stuck on it with 0 cooldows yes i see how you can die to it but thats not dm fault. > > stability works. > invuln works > block does not work, you get cced back into the trap > teleports kind of work, you do teleport but when teleport ends you still get knocked down. > As a mesmer I never really gave a kitten cuz I had jaunt/blink and F4, but when I started playing ranger its kitten awfull. > god forbids you dont have 100% cooldowns else you dead from full hp, no counterplay. > like the only thing you can do is dodge out, and use stun-break during knockdown animation, and hope to gods that the trap bugs and lets you out, otherwise you die from full hp On ranger you have 3/4 cleanse utilities. Meaning you can cleanse the stacks whenever they get out of hand if you don't have the stability to get out. How is this any different from the old holo that could 100 to zero you in a prime light beam you didn't dodge?

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > Please make it so the 25% movement speed is permanent, so it doesn't matter if you use F2 or not. Small change that will allow DHs to run non movement speed runes; currently rely on stuff like Trapper and Lynx. After sinking an ungodly amount of hours into this elite spec, I can tell it was meant to be mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > It was only meant to be more mobile than core guard. Which it is. 1200(1500) range on longbow and area denial with traps gives DH a kit that does not need insane mobility. It already has multiple gapclosers and F2, thats enough. In a world where thieves(i am speed) getting mobility nerfs, DH does not need a mobilty buffs. > > > > > > > > > > Playing DH without some type of movement speed rune is a terrible experience > > > > > > > > So pick a movement speed rune. Problem solved. > > > > > > Constructive as always. > > > > He literally brought us back to the reason for my post > He's right tho. Stop asking for the reward without the risk. You re asking to dumb down the game. It is like asking: > * To add an on demand shadow step in thief's traits because playing thief without shadow step is a terrible experience > * To add an on demand shield in war's traits because playing war without shield is a terrible experience > * To add an on demand wurm flesh in necro's traits because playing necro without wurm flesh is a terrible > * .... > If you want something, you have to its price. Absolutely not the same thing. Mesmer was awful to play without illusory persona. So they made it baseline. A 25% boost at the cost of trap cd reduction still isn't good enough to choose most of the time. But the few cases where it might be decent enough to take, you can't use your f2 or the trait will be useless. (The trait in question promotes usage of f2)

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > Please make it so the 25% movement speed is permanent, so it doesn't matter if you use F2 or not. Small change that will allow DHs to run non movement speed runes; currently rely on stuff like Trapper and Lynx. After sinking an ungodly amount of hours into this elite spec, I can tell it was meant to be mobile > > > > > > It was only meant to be more mobile than core guard. Which it is. 1200(1500) range on longbow and area denial with traps gives DH a kit that does not need insane mobility. It already has multiple gapclosers and F2, thats enough. In a world where thieves(i am speed) getting mobility nerfs, DH does not need a mobilty buffs. > > > > Playing DH without some type of movement speed rune is a terrible experience > > So pick a movement speed rune. Problem solved. Constructive as always.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > Please share what you are smoking > > please, show me you can get into tier 1 bronze without decay. > > when leagues came out, i placed in amber, finished in amber. > > There are numerous players that accuse me of belonging in the dumpster leagues, and yet somehow I make it into their games. > > One season I could be bronze, except the system brings me into gold, and then ill finish a season in platinum. > > I do not belong in platinum. > > Why do people think I am joking when I say I am a bronze/amber player? > > Fear it would invalidate their accolades.... > > The false placements drive players away because it forces bad players into leagues they don't belong, and a few potentially good players into a league they dont belong. > > By the way I am taking bets about where I'll finish this season. Well, this does explain a lot of your forum posts.

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > This already exists. > > It's this one right here we are posting in now. > > A balance subforum would also just be filled with the junk we have now here. Nerf this, remove that, buff this, do what I want or your game will fail etc. > > Wouldn't really serve a purpose inho. We have a discord with 5 something devs in it along with 40 something players.

This already exists.

> @"Ovark.2514" said: > It happened again. I imagine every other game in plat is like this. Players only get downs and never kills I had a 1.9 million dmg 4 kill game a few days back. Was vs double support guard, support tempest, support war and water weaver on temple.

There's someone on the trading discord with over 14000 stacks of eyes of kormir.

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > I liked pvp more when Rev wasn't part of it. > > Excuse me? Just as a reminder: Rev (Herald) caused massive q_q on the forums with several heavy nerf hammer even before 2020.. The S/S Herald was perceived as extremely oppressive pre-Shiro nerf and Shackling Wave nerf. Back when Renegade wasn't even considered viable. I know, rev has almost always been oppressive.