Math.5123

I liked pvp more when Rev wasn't part of it.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > > > People complained about how Scourge turned capture points into zones of death. guard/DH seems to be having similar issues. Weird how people are treating the spirit weapons as if they're in a vacuum and the guard does nothing to try to set it up. I don't think it's a major issue, but imo there are a lot of factors coming together and causing issues - frequency of condi application. CC, traps, and so on. Back to spirit weapons - I can see how the sword could be an issue. For classes that aren't constantly bouncing around the map, or if you're suffering cripple/chill (which is an entirely reasonable thing to happen), it'd take some resources to get out of the spinny thingy and they have...what was it, four of them? And then throw in that guard has some imobs scattered about its kit and things get a little overwhelming with how many times it can go 'spend a ton of resources and be nowhere near the general vicinity of the node or you die'. > > > > > > > > > > I think Zephoid also has a good point. While I don't want to see CC skills hitting as hard as they did, maybe AA level damage would be appropriate > > > > > > > > Guard has immobilize scattered around its kit? > > > > Apart from a 2s immob on a 20s cd on scepter 3, where do you find the rest? > > > > > > Remember, according to these forums, guardian can take 6 trait-lines, including FB & DH simultaneously, 8 weapons, 20 utilities, and 3 different amulets at once. > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that if you're taking sprit-weapons and traps on your utility bar then you can't be taking shouts/signets/mantras. No, ssshhhhh, don't think about it. Don't apply reasoning. Just complain. > > > > Yeah, I honestly don't know why I bother > > Despite what you believe, I can actually read dude. > > Spirit weapons have a net improvement over the last 8.5 years, or however long you think GW2 has existed. > > SO, in addition to the toning down of most everything else, yes, people will complain about the improved or untouched. > > Spirit DH is meta. > > Jeez... acting like it 2012 I surely hope you can read, and i never insinuated otherwise. The only spirit weapon that might be problematic is the sword, and that's solved by making it hit twice instead of 4 times. Effectively reducing the burn stacks from 5 to 2. Nerfing the rest is just pointless. It's amazing how i can 1v1 this build with nothing but cleanse sigils. But everyone else seems to tank everything.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Curennos.9307" said: > > > People complained about how Scourge turned capture points into zones of death. guard/DH seems to be having similar issues. Weird how people are treating the spirit weapons as if they're in a vacuum and the guard does nothing to try to set it up. I don't think it's a major issue, but imo there are a lot of factors coming together and causing issues - frequency of condi application. CC, traps, and so on. Back to spirit weapons - I can see how the sword could be an issue. For classes that aren't constantly bouncing around the map, or if you're suffering cripple/chill (which is an entirely reasonable thing to happen), it'd take some resources to get out of the spinny thingy and they have...what was it, four of them? And then throw in that guard has some imobs scattered about its kit and things get a little overwhelming with how many times it can go 'spend a ton of resources and be nowhere near the general vicinity of the node or you die'. > > > > > > I think Zephoid also has a good point. While I don't want to see CC skills hitting as hard as they did, maybe AA level damage would be appropriate > > > > Guard has immobilize scattered around its kit? > > Apart from a 2s immob on a 20s cd on scepter 3, where do you find the rest? > > Remember, according to these forums, guardian can take 6 trait-lines, including FB & DH simultaneously, 8 weapons, 20 utilities, and 3 different amulets at once. > > Nevermind the fact that if you're taking sprit-weapons and traps on your utility bar then you can't be taking shouts/signets/mantras. No, ssshhhhh, don't think about it. Don't apply reasoning. Just complain. Yeah, I honestly don't know why I bother

> @"Curennos.9307" said: > People complained about how Scourge turned capture points into zones of death. guard/DH seems to be having similar issues. Weird how people are treating the spirit weapons as if they're in a vacuum and the guard does nothing to try to set it up. I don't think it's a major issue, but imo there are a lot of factors coming together and causing issues - frequency of condi application. CC, traps, and so on. Back to spirit weapons - I can see how the sword could be an issue. For classes that aren't constantly bouncing around the map, or if you're suffering cripple/chill (which is an entirely reasonable thing to happen), it'd take some resources to get out of the spinny thingy and they have...what was it, four of them? And then throw in that guard has some imobs scattered about its kit and things get a little overwhelming with how many times it can go 'spend a ton of resources and be nowhere near the general vicinity of the node or you die'. > > I think Zephoid also has a good point. While I don't want to see CC skills hitting as hard as they did, maybe AA level damage would be appropriate Guard has immobilize scattered around its kit? Apart from a 2s immob on a 20s cd on scepter 3, where do you find the rest?

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. Since when does symbol of punishment down someone in 2 seconds?

Hahahaha core guard having mobility. Good one buddy. I assume you're talking about the retreat speedrunes combo, in which case more than half the classes still disengages it.

> @"Nyladreas.7564" said: > Hey everyone, > > Complete ly new player to the game here. I just dinged my first 80 on a Guardian and I'm looking for some website or resources where I can learn about PvP builds, how to play and generally get a sense of direction. > > Does anybody know of such site, pretty pretty please? The most I googled have ratings from years ago. > > I'm planning on trying out revenant, thief and elementalist as well, but for now I'd like to have my first character functioning :) > > If anybody can give me some sense of direction or immediate advice on what to go for with my Guardian here, I'm all ears! ? My boy Angeels has an up to date website called: godsofpvp.com. There's also a community discord called welcome to pvp where you have high rated players as class coaches to answer any questions you might have.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > > > Oh boy > > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > > B. retaliate with a burst > > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > > > > This post is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen; let me explain why. > > > > Some classes can't *not* fully heal a rev during IL. Take power guard as an example. The moment i drop a symbol, it's a sure full heal for the rev. This means, I either don't use my most damaging abilities (imagine playing rev without using sword 2 and 3) or I fully heal them once every 30 seconds. > > > > This means i have to approach the mu one of two ways, I either try to kill them within the 30s window (where i still have to either dodge or pressure through/ out-trade Shiro heal) or slowly but surely whittle them down using autos or cancelable skills (see sword 3) to not fully heal them. > > In addition to having way higher consistent pressure, almost twice the basehealth (11k vs 18k) and I kid you not when i say half the mobility, unless we go speed runes retreat. They also have way superior sustain through blocks and evades. > > > > But at least it's weak to condis, so that's nice. > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > Lost an AT against prolly a stacked team and then complain on forum. There is a reason there are no shiro/herald prev in MATs for quite a while. If I remember correctly, even Obindo is forced to play crev in the MOTA. It still requires skill to play tbh, more than many other braidead classes that are still plauging the sPVP environment -- flamethrower, pewpew cthief, any class that abuse trapper rune, and some sort of ranger/druid/ that abuse the kitten kitten immo pet. > > > > Imagine using a 7 month old tournament as an argument. That also banned specstacking. > > That 7 month old tournament is only part of the argument. I cant remember any MAT wins with a shiro/herald prev after that since today (this part is even before I bring up the MOTA). Imagine not capable of reading the whole sentence, lel. > > They banned specstacking, otherwise I think there will be more crevs instead of power revs, because prevs will be countered hard by condi thief~ > > Another note: Yasai is addressing the issue from probably a burn DH's perspective (she/he mentioned the trap elite.) Yet you argued against hiom/her from a prolly a different build. Yikes as usual mate. I did acknowledge that pherald is weak to condis. But you can't have a class that just beats all other roaming specs while still being about to disengage all(?) Condi specs. Having one DH build counter you isn't really a good argument.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > Oh boy > *puts on rubber gloves* > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > B. retaliate with a burst > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > This post is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen; let me explain why. Some classes can't *not* fully heal a rev during IL. Take power guard as an example. The moment i drop a symbol, it's a sure full heal for the rev. This means, I either don't use my most damaging abilities (imagine playing rev without using sword 2 and 3) or I fully heal them once every 30 seconds. This means i have to approach the mu one of two ways, I either try to kill them within the 30s window (where i still have to either dodge or pressure through/ out-trade Shiro heal) or slowly but surely whittle them down using autos or cancelable skills (see sword 3) to not fully heal them. In addition to having way higher consistent pressure, almost twice the basehealth (11k vs 18k) and I kid you not when i say half the mobility, unless we go speed runes retreat. They also have way superior sustain through blocks and evades. But at least it's weak to condis, so that's nice. > @"Crozame.4098" said: > Lost an AT against prolly a stacked team and then complain on forum. There is a reason there are no shiro/herald prev in MATs for quite a while. If I remember correctly, even Obindo is forced to play crev in the MOTA. It still requires skill to play tbh, more than many other braidead classes that are still plauging the sPVP environment -- flamethrower, pewpew cthief, any class that abuse trapper rune, and some sort of ranger/druid/ that abuse the kitten kitten immo pet. Imagine using a 7 month old tournament as an argument. That also banned specstacking.

Zerk guard.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Vombs.5917" said: > > > > **Balance:** > > > > -Eliminate decap builds by granting _prevent capture-point contribution_ debuff for **2** seconds upon knocking back & launching. > > > > > > > > -Reduce non-targeted mobility of thief fixing unhealthy decap interaction with Conquest. > > > > [infiltrator’s Arrow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow)- Requires target. Grants stealth **(3s)** on successful hit. Range increased to **1200**. > > > > > > > > -Convert all resurrection skills into healing abilities that only affect allies. > > > > ([signet of Mercy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy), [battle Standard](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard), [illusion of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life), [signet of Undeath](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath), [Glyph of Renewal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal)) > > > > (["Search and Rescue!"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Search_and_Rescue!%22), [Glyph of the Stars](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_the_Stars), [Function Gyro](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Function_Gyro), [Toss Elixir R](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R), [Transfusion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion)) > > > > ([Arcane Resurrection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Resurrection), [Ritual of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Life), [Medic’s Feedback](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic%27s_Feedback)) > > > > > > > > -Rework instant cast damage & **CC** abilities that _immediately_ hit the target. > > > > [Lightning Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike) - Next attack inflicts a lightning strike with **1** second delay. > > > > [bewildering Ambush](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bewildering_Ambush) - Now procs off _interrupt_ instead of steal. **[10sICD]** > > > > [Mantra of Pain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain) & [Arcane Wave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave) - Damage removed. Now inflicts blind **(3s)**. > > > > [Mantra of Distraction](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Distraction), [sleight of Hand](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sleight_of_Hand) & [Primal Echoes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes) - Daze removed. Now _breaks enemy targeting_. > > > > > > > > -Convert all damage & weakness/immobilize application on **CC** traits to on _interrupt_. > > > > ([Lightning Rod](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod), [body Blow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow), [Dwarven Battle Training](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training), [No Escape](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Escape), [Expert Examination](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expert_Examination)) > > > > > > > > -Applying transform ability to yourself or foe will _prevent capture-point contribution_ for their duration. > > > > ([Lich Form](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form), [Tornado](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado), [Rampage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampage), [signet of Humility](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility), [Toss Elixir X](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X)) > > > > > > > > > > > > **QoL:** > > > > -Convert all line abilities into **rings/circles/domes**. > > > > **Rings:** ([unsteady Ground](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground)**[180]**, [Line of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding)**[180]**) > > > > **Circles:** ([Flamewall](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall)**[180]**, [Napalm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm)**[180]**) > > > > **Domes:** ([Wall of Reflection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection)**[360]**, [sublime Conversion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sublime_Conversion)**[360]**, [Temporal Curtain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain)**[360]**) > > > > > > > > -Make must have traits for warrior & thief _baseline_ to match other profession’s elite specs 2 trait line choice variety. > > > > ([Fast Hands](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Hands) & [Preparedness](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparedness)) > > > > > > > > -Rework all multi-projectile melee fanning abilities to work from range like [sevenshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sevenshot). > > > > ([Dragon’s Claw](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Claw), [Fan of Fire](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fan_of_Fire), [splitblade](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Splitblade), [Poison Volley](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Volley)) > > > > > > > > -Improve combo finisher effects. > > > > (**Whirl** produces 2x the bolts, **Projectile** effects & duration doubled, **Leap/Blast** aura duration & healing doubled) > > > > > > > > -Grant movement to immobile while casting abilities. > > > > ([Meteor Shower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower), [barrage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage), [True Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot), [Kill Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot), [Pile Driver](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pile_Driver), [Holographic Shockwave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave), [Ring of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding), [static Field](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field)) > > > > ([Crystal Hibernation](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation), [Whirling Defense](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense), [Empower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empower), [Natural Convergence](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Convergence), [Fortify](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortify)) > > > > > > So u severely nerf thiefs mobility and disengage potential with no significant buffs to it's in fight sustain or damage, so essentially deleting class, good balance suggestion lol. > > > > Giving preparedness baseline is a massive buff, what do you mean lol > > Yes it is but its a buff thief will never see and still wouldn't counter balance those nerfs. Unless cs and da get a damage buff trickery would always be taken as it is now due to the 3 in,damage and utility the traitline gives. If Preparedness stayed as a trait giving thief 18 ini anet would just increase the cost of skills over time again as its the easiest and laziest way to nerf thief so that will be the path taken by anet. If Preparedness was made baseline, cs DA DD would be insane burst. Could probably be played with SD as a duelist at that point. Or sd rifle DE, if you want more mobility

> @"Markri.9475" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > We are finally here people, it took us 8 and a half years. But people are finally complaining about spirit weapons being too strong. > > > > Good riddance. > While alot of abilities got nerfed in the febuary patch, there where those that didnt get a damage shave. which made them meta viable, Grenades for example. Sword of justice still uses the same dmg coeff. > How long ago an ability was changed or how many times it has been changed is irrelevant to the overall balance. Its just small minded. > > This complain from Crab Fear probably stems from SoJ and not all spirit weapons.. > I dunno at what part of SoJ or its synergistic traits a nerf is best applied, but I think SoJ is a too strong ability today. > Well, you're wrong. SoJ is not the issue, eternal armory and permeating wrath are too strong. Decreasing the count or increasing the cd "of spirit weapons" not just SoJ, is not the solution. The coefficient isn't even high to begin with and it's not used on any power builds (in pvp)

We are finally here people, it took us 8 and a half years. But people are finally complaining about spirit weapons being too strong. Good riddance.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Vombs.5917" said: > > **Balance:** > > -Eliminate decap builds by granting _prevent capture-point contribution_ debuff for **2** seconds upon knocking back & launching. > > > > -Reduce non-targeted mobility of thief fixing unhealthy decap interaction with Conquest. > > [infiltrator’s Arrow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow)- Requires target. Grants stealth **(3s)** on successful hit. Range increased to **1200**. > > > > -Convert all resurrection skills into healing abilities that only affect allies. > > ([signet of Mercy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy), [battle Standard](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard), [illusion of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life), [signet of Undeath](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath), [Glyph of Renewal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal)) > > (["Search and Rescue!"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Search_and_Rescue!%22), [Glyph of the Stars](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_the_Stars), [Function Gyro](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Function_Gyro), [Toss Elixir R](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R), [Transfusion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion)) > > ([Arcane Resurrection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Resurrection), [Ritual of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Life), [Medic’s Feedback](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic%27s_Feedback)) > > > > -Rework instant cast damage & **CC** abilities that _immediately_ hit the target. > > [Lightning Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike) - Next attack inflicts a lightning strike with **1** second delay. > > [bewildering Ambush](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bewildering_Ambush) - Now procs off _interrupt_ instead of steal. **[10sICD]** > > [Mantra of Pain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain) & [Arcane Wave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave) - Damage removed. Now inflicts blind **(3s)**. > > [Mantra of Distraction](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Distraction), [sleight of Hand](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sleight_of_Hand) & [Primal Echoes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes) - Daze removed. Now _breaks enemy targeting_. > > > > -Convert all damage & weakness/immobilize application on **CC** traits to on _interrupt_. > > ([Lightning Rod](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod), [body Blow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow), [Dwarven Battle Training](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training), [No Escape](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Escape), [Expert Examination](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expert_Examination)) > > > > -Applying transform ability to yourself or foe will _prevent capture-point contribution_ for their duration. > > ([Lich Form](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form), [Tornado](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado), [Rampage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampage), [signet of Humility](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility), [Toss Elixir X](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X)) > > > > > > **QoL:** > > -Convert all line abilities into **rings/circles/domes**. > > **Rings:** ([unsteady Ground](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground)**[180]**, [Line of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding)**[180]**) > > **Circles:** ([Flamewall](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall)**[180]**, [Napalm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm)**[180]**) > > **Domes:** ([Wall of Reflection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection)**[360]**, [sublime Conversion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sublime_Conversion)**[360]**, [Temporal Curtain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain)**[360]**) > > > > -Make must have traits for warrior & thief _baseline_ to match other profession’s elite specs 2 trait line choice variety. > > ([Fast Hands](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Hands) & [Preparedness](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparedness)) > > > > -Rework all multi-projectile melee fanning abilities to work from range like [sevenshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sevenshot). > > ([Dragon’s Claw](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Claw), [Fan of Fire](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fan_of_Fire), [splitblade](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Splitblade), [Poison Volley](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Volley)) > > > > -Improve combo finisher effects. > > (**Whirl** produces 2x the bolts, **Projectile** effects & duration doubled, **Leap/Blast** aura duration & healing doubled) > > > > -Grant movement to immobile while casting abilities. > > ([Meteor Shower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower), [barrage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage), [True Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot), [Kill Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot), [Pile Driver](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pile_Driver), [Holographic Shockwave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave), [Ring of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding), [static Field](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field)) > > ([Crystal Hibernation](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation), [Whirling Defense](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense), [Empower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empower), [Natural Convergence](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Convergence), [Fortify](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortify)) > > So u severely nerf thiefs mobility and disengage potential with no significant buffs to it's in fight sustain or damage, so essentially deleting class, good balance suggestion lol. Giving preparedness baseline is a massive buff, what do you mean lol

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > > > > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > > > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > > > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > > > > > > He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. > > > > > > You are comparing 1x sword of justice to a 16s duration FG. > > > > > > If you want to compare the dps output for a full 16s, a guardian could summon 3x sword of justice in that time. > > > > I'll give you a chance to reread what i wrote. See if you can grasp it. > > You are also not considering some basic practicality issues during cleaving, such as how players will attack you and CC you while you are trying to cleave with the FGS, which will interrupt your ideal full 16s rotation. The Sword Of Justice summons however, just do their job. That wasn't his statement. So that's an entirely different argument. Try to stay with us Trevor.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > > He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. > > You are comparing 1x sword of justice to a 16s duration FG. > > If you want to compare the dps output for a full 16s, a guardian could summon 3x sword of justice in that time. I'll give you a chance to reread what i wrote. See if you can grasp it.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" I gave up playing chess with pigeons. Impossible to reason when pitchforks are out. The mob will get what it wants and move on to next target, > > > > > > > > > > > > Y'ALL!!! Shall we NERF TEEEF NEXT? IS OP! > > > > > > > > > > I dunno, ask @"Ragnar.4257" about that one. Apparently he knows of a secret Thief build that can tank like a Guardian in a team fight and hold nodes without needing to stealth or kite off. > > > > > > > > I never claimed that thief could do that. > > > > > > > > I claimed that the trapper-DH build can't. > > > > > > > > Do try to keep up. > > > > > > lol, dude you said that: > > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > > > The specific build of burn trapper-DH, is not better at staying in a 4v4 on node than thief. > > > > > > I'd just want to point out right now that in 9 years of play and 20,000 games, I have never once seen 4 thieves stay on a node and hold in a team fight vs. 4 DHs. Clearly this is something that would never be able to happen lol. I don't know why you even went there with your argument. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Saying "it is not better at staying in a 4v4" is not the same as saying "it can totally stay in a 4v4". It means, exactly what it says. That a trapper-DH cannot stay in a 4v4 on node through its own sustain. It must either kite away and reset with stealth, like a thief, or, it must have 2x support, like a thief. > > > > 2. A made-up scenario of 4x Thief vs 4x DH is hardly relevant. 4x thief will struggle into basically anything, it's not an argument. > > So you're telling me, that when you form an MAT team, 2x Thieves are as good of a replacement for node holding team fighters as 2x DHs? > > Amazing comp. I'm sure that team will win. They will definitely be able to hold nodes against teams that have DHs and Renegades as team fighters. X2 dh won't be able to hold node vs a dedicated teamfight duo any more than double thief would. I would argue that thief would hold it longer, especially with SD. Dh is a teamfight dmg dealer, much like spite reaper. Balls to the wall damage, very little sustain outside of kiting. You're playing with words and trying to put words in his mouth, he never said x4 thief would hold vs x4 dh.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > > He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. > > I want to see numbers now. :tongue: > > @"Math.5123", you provide maximum damage for FGS, screenshot is just fine. > @"Arheundel.6451", you do the same for SoJ. > > Not that it really mattered, but I am still curious. I'll actually patch for this. I'll record using arc

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword.

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. This is straight up a lie.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Wow good ol gw2 forum members lol these reasonings being posted defending guards access to stealth is humourous lol. > Regardless of hp does guards have stealth in their innate kit, do any of guards specs have stealth in their kits? Where any of the specs designed to use stealth in or out of combat judging by their kits? Do u think the dh spec was designed with the use of trapper rune? If one random run (trapper was removed would any guard specs have on demand access to stealth? Is trapper rune innate part of guard or its specs kits? > Was guard and its specs designed to engage in combat without the use of stealth and thus given defensive skills to do so thus was balanced around sustaining itself in combat without stealth? > Sry but only the last question is a yes. > Anyone saying they cant understand why players are saying guard and its specs wernt designed to have on demand access to stealth are 1- being disingenuous and just arguing against the fact cuz the like the broken combination or 2- shouldn't be on forums making any discussions as they clearly are not knowledgeable nor do they have the level of understanding of the game to be making claims within a thread. > Just saying. > Good example for u all. > Let's add a ruin that gives a spec aegis on reveal or at the end of a teleport, would the community rally for its removal due to the fact it would be broken on thief? I think it would and their totally reasonable arguement would be thst thief wasn't designed to have access to a on demand block like aegis right :). The community would be in a uproar but not surprisingly this community are hypocrites when it serve them and their chosen class bias. Trapper runes were added with hot. Same expansion that have guardian traps. Guardian was the only class that got given traps, so more likely than not; the rune was designed for dh.

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > I have come to the conclusion burns are fine, burning is very strong true but burning is something very damaging in real life too > If only a blind person could go punch someone once to regain their eyesight.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > I watched and it looks like he just laid a couple traps as he walked/teleported away. He decided to walk away and not get killed by the ranger hunting him when you thought he was just camping that spot in stealth waiting to get blasted by long bow damage. Outplayed. > > > > > > Yup but I feel like you're missing the point here. > > > > > > Should a DH be able to have that kind of stealth ganking/stealth rotation/stealth disengage potential? > > > > If he's using his heal, elite and a utility to disengage. Yes. > > How is this any different from a scrapper stealth gyro and superspeeding away? > > @"Justine.6351" > > Because medium class Engineer from day 1 was designed around the idea to have a bit of stealth, team AoE stealth even. Guardian on the other hand, has been being balance for years around being a heavy bruiser spec and sometime support, that is slow and doesn't have stealth. It was given a lot of statistical parameters to make up for NOT having high mobility and stealth. > > This isn't too hard to figure out here, why it's over performing. > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > I don't understand the issue. He gets stealth, moves a little (your pet starts running towards him after the 3s stealth. Did you call it back or did he stealth with a second trap?) and walks over to his close. You wait there for like 10-12 seconds. More than enough to just walk to close even without some superspeed. Thief, mes or rev would've been way faster. > > > > > > > > What makes him a thiefmes here? Attacking from stealth? Condi burst? General movement in stealth? > > > > > > > > Not saying trapper runes shouldn't be changed, because it hurts not only the game but even DH itself, but... why this thiefmes argument? > > > > > > He stealths at 40s in the video. I waited till 47s before I realized he was gone. I know the build he was using only has 3 traps, his heal utility, procession, and maw. So after about 7s, I knew he was gone. > > > > > > Though I would not have expected him to be able to disengage me to the left or the right that far, as he had previously used one of his other traps before using that last trap for the disengage. So at most, he potentially had 2 traps to use for 4s of stealth and 4s of super speed. Not only did I not expect him to be able to disengage that far, but I was also low on health and bottomed out on resources. I couldn't afford to go running to the left or right and potentially get caught in a trap, so I had to stay where I was until he reappeared. > > > > > > So I wasn't standing there for 10-12s, it was 7s, and it would have been dumb to walk in there and attempt to chase him on a glass cannon when I had no idea where the traps were. > > > > > > Thief/Mes would have been able to travel a similar distance in those 7 seconds, with a similar level of stealth. From that exact point over to his close. About 7s is what it would take for a Thief/Mes to Shadowstep or Blink while stealthed, and either SB 5 their way over to the node or Steal through the mountain, or benefit Super Speed from the trait on Mes while stealthed. About 7s sounds just about right. Rev maybe could Shiro run and Phase through the mountain in that time, not sure about that though. > > > > > > Either way, this doesn't have anything to do with and doesn't change my point of view that a DH shouldn't be thieving & mesmering like an actual thief or mesmer. > > > > 1. I double checked: You run around there for **12 seconds** until you see the tempest. You use a block about 10 seconds after he stealthed. **He pops up at close after about 12 seconds.** > > 2. The rune give 3 seconds of stealth. You are standing in that canyon thing and he has the time to run to the sides immediately after setting the trap. **Your pet starts to run towards him after 3 seconds!** > > > > This is what stealth does, but you could have expected it. > > What does that have to do with the fact that he can stealth and traverse that long of a distance, regardless of the time taken, without me being able to tell where he is? > > That's the point, DHs being able to thieve & mesmer like actual thieves & mesmers. > > I don't understand the attention deficit here in this thread. Next I'm going to have someone come in here and argue with me about the colors of the outfits the characters in the video were wearing. > > Its almost as if trapper runes were added with DH. Meaning dh was very much designed around that rune in mind. But hey, what do i know.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > I watched and it looks like he just laid a couple traps as he walked/teleported away. He decided to walk away and not get killed by the ranger hunting him when you thought he was just camping that spot in stealth waiting to get blasted by long bow damage. Outplayed. > > Yup but I feel like you're missing the point here. > > Should a DH be able to have that kind of stealth ganking/stealth rotation/stealth disengage potential? If he's using his heal, elite and a utility to disengage. Yes. How is this any different from a scrapper stealth gyro and superspeeding away?

Imagine dedicating 80% of your utility bar, along with a rune to get some mobility. Only to have people say you shouldn't be allowed to. I haven't logged into the game for about two months, and even when i did play; i didn't touch this build more than a handful of games. I agree that the rune needs to go, but not for the reasons you're giving. You're saying it gives the rotational expertise only a thief or mesmer should have. When in reality, running with perma swiftness will cover more distance faster. The stealth is the only cancerous part about the rune because it allows them to play without a stunbreak. What's more is the insane scaling of permeating wrath in teamfights. Double cleansing sigil and 1 source of stab is enough to beat this build in a 1v1.