bethekey.8314

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > What he says stands though. Even if tooltip was 1500 range it doesn't make the flowchart for dealing with war any different, and I'm against nerfing it since most of their hard counters are characters that can get well out of range of that with proper planning. Spellbreaker already trades a good portion of their damage now that the damage bugs are addressed, and their meta build is a node bunker. > > Even in your video, you had the resources to deal with the rush, you just didn't expect to have to deal with it. > I take issue with you and Cute calling skill fixes nerfs. If a skill is behaving abnormally in your favor, consider it a gift. Don't become greedy and attached to it. I also take issue with how you are justifying outlier skills. For example, I don't believe ANY single ability should be able to kill someone in, say, 2 seconds. Even if the class using it is the weakest, most pathetic thing. That game design is terrible. You're right, I did have the resources to deal with Rush and did not expect to have to deal with it due to misleading range descriptions/poor hit animations/lag etc. Dodges are precious resources that you should save if you can.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > It's not about being touchy the class can be good at something, it's that you're looking at it in a vacuum while also only looking at the positives, crying wolf at something already weak when it's not an issue in the slightest both in said vacuum and in the grand scheme of things. Except it is. I post a simple video asking for consistency between skill behavior and description. And then I receive sensitive responses like these: > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > Absolutely nobody thinks this is an issue except you. Speaking for everyone. > A slightly extended range on a skill that is listed at 1200, so what. Very mobile kit? That consists of Rush, Gs3, and Bulls Charge, all key skills that can't be used at any time if you want to actually achieve anything What is this hyperbole? Good players use the same skills for different purposes, yes. Good warriors are able to be very slippery with Rush, Whirlwind, Bulls Charge, Rampage 3 + 5, and Dagger or Sword leaps. Obviously, this is somewhat build dependent. The vast majority of warrior builds I've faced have been GS + dagger/shield. > and are still so ridiculous telegraphed in the case of Rush and Bulls Charge that dodging them needs practically no focus. More hyperbole. All the "just dodge" balance team members on this forum must never be hit by any ability. I'd love to set up some duels between you and other warriors and watch as you dodge every each Rush and Bulls Charge outside of a vacuum. Remember, if you ever get hit, you're bad (according to you), so keep your focus! > This isn't even taking into consideration that Rush does pitiful damage even if it does miraculously hit I think I get hit for 5k+ in the video? How spoiled are warriors with damage? Again, more hyperbole. > and it having a bit of extra range than listed is QQ post worthy? One of the most telegraphed skills in the game on the weakest class and you still want it nerfed. Ridiculous. Update the tooltip to show 1500 range if it's such a game breaking issue. Weakest class? Nerfed? What are you even on about? How is there supposed to be any sort of discussion and mutual understanding when you respond like this?

> @"apharma.3741" said: > If I remember correctly the leap distance on holo leap isn't actually 600, it's something like 450 + 150 is the range of the attack. > > Warrior not mobile? What alternate dimension have I woken up in, they're mobile _if they want to be_ Best response here. After testing, Holo Leap seems shorter than expected, which brings the Rush range closer in line. Thanks for sharing something useful. Yes, greatsword meta builds are and have been very mobile. Forum warriors seem especially touchy about anyone saying their class is good at something.

> @"Ryuk.6840" said: > Do the experiment in reverse . Try to use them downhill , going to the npc . > In the jump mechanics , you jump and mid air the animation stops , allowing you to "keep gliding" forward by pushing the "W" key .Downhill , you have more time till you reach the ground and holding "W"" allo you to traverse more area . While upstais you dont have more space to freely "glide" > Bull Rush + Sword 5 are "straight line" spells > Meaning he traveled 1200 range , while you did 380 uphill with Arc (they estimate the distance from the start of the animation till it auto lands , in straight line + no pushing any other bottun) I'll refer you to the second half of the video on flat ground. Also, what you're describing here is a natural result of the "physics" in game. Rush's behavior here is not.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"bethekey.8314" said: > > Only noobs have trouble with Dragon's Maw and would complain about it on the PvP forums. I play PvP at the highest level and never see anyone have trouble. > > At the highest level they die to lightning orb? Mega whoosh, my dude.

Only noobs have trouble with Dragon's Maw and would complain about it on the PvP forums. I play PvP at the highest level and never see anyone have trouble.

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > This actually brings up something very funny. Did you that, after the nerfs, Shrapnel Grenade does more damage than grenade barrage? > Even without factoring in the bleed. Good ol' Anet balancing. Makes perfect sense. Yes, and it's sad to see. > That aside, the build runs marauder for a very good reason, and that's because, while engi can get away with zerker amulet thanks to it's higher base hp (18k if running explosives), the scepter warhorn build really wants the extra vitality from marauder amulet, because otherwise you will **explode** if a thief or power rev so much as looks at you funny. > For a more realistic test, i'd reccomend running it with marauder amulet. Also for a laugh, try the engi burst with shrapnel grenade instead of barrage. You're missing the point. Lightning Orb is over the top. Single target damage and team fight damage. How fast you do or do not die to a thief does not validate a broken skill. If Tempest is truly lacking in other areas, buff those.

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > > I apologize for the misunderstanding. I read over your post a few times, but I'm not sure I completely understand the contradiction you're pointing out. > To clarify I was making two separate points. > > Point A. The skill is balanced in spite of the damage it deals because it's extremely slow and avoidable. > > Point B. If you were to increase the projectile speed of lightning orb, you would also reduce the damage. No worries, thanks for taking the time to read it a few times even. I understood your point about increasing the speed and I agreed, it might help. The contradiction (at least in my mind) was with how you valued speed and really isn't that important. > Finally point 3... I understand what you're saying and agree that getting hit repeatedly by Lightning Orb should chunk you. Chunk, not kill. Regarding teamfights, I think you're selling its long range, multi-hit, and auto-targeting qualities vastly short. To focus only on the damage aspect, I tested Grenade Barrage using my berserker Engi and Lightning Orb using your build with berserker amulet. On the Heavy Golem pack in HOTM, Grenade Barrage did 17,079 damage. Lightning Orb did 19,891 damage. Note that these are _ideal_ conditions for Grenade Barrage: 5 targets hit by all grenades. Lightning Orb does this level of damage almost regardless of target number. Based on my test, your claim about team fights is wrong, especially for "average" AoE. I can't comment on whether Tempest needs a rework to offset dependence on a broken skill like Lightning Orb, but that's a separate issue.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Naah, in team fights it is not good anymore, because it _only shoots the nearest target_. So it usually spreads its damage across multiple players, illusions, pets, anything. > > It is a fun bunker breaker though indeed. But there are far far more pressing issues at the moment. I barely encounter anyone else trolling with this in actual games. You heard it here first, folks. 15k+ damage into a team fight isn't good. Are elementalists this spoiled?

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > We can kill two birds with one stone here. > > Increase the speed lightning orb travels by double or more. Leave the rate at which it fires projectiles the same. > The end result is less total hits, less damage, but the skill can actually hit someone who is paying attention. > > That said, the skill in its current state is fine for a number of reasons. > > 1. It is **very** easy to avoid. You don't even need to use a dodge, just walk perpendicular to the skill and it won't hit you. > 2. In a teamfight, it's more difficult to notice it among all the noise, but it will also spread out its damage among all targets in range, resulting in less damage per target > 3. In a 1v1 where it can actually down someone, it's trivially easy to avoid. > > It's one of those skills that seems rediculous on paper, but doesn't pose many issues in practice. It's a slow moving nuke trading speed and consistency for raw power. These kinds of skills are fine to have in a game, and tend to be some of the more fair/balanced skills in spite of their power in ideal scenarios. It would benefit from a more noticeable animation though. The speed increase might help. I believe you contradicted yourself saying more speed would reduce damage at first, but also say it's a nuke that traded speed for power. I don't see the difference between reasons 1 and 3. I also believe it's narrow-minded to say it's trivial to avoid. Endurance isn't infinite, stuns exist, and movement may be restricted in corridors or to important conquest nodes. * 100 Blades was trivial to avoid until paired with Bulls Charge * 100 Nades kit swap ability was trivial to avoid until paired with Magnet * DH traps are trivial to avoid until paired with Maw * Etc I stand firm that no one skill should be able to 100 - 0 you this quickly. Yes, big damage skills should have more noticeable animations.

> @"knite.1542" said: > Goodness. People too lazy to watch a 10 second video and just talk kitten instead lol Isn't it amazing?

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Comparable to Symbol of Punishement really, skills that do a little too much than they should for how often they can be used. > > > > Do you guys think...any dev will take you seriously? > > Should any skill by itself alone be allowed to do quite literally damage that can kill someone in 2 seconds? That's the argument here but all we're getting is "just dodge lol". > > People want gameplay that's not braindead yet we're okay with having a single button capable of ending the fight this easily? I'm not sure we're on the same page here. > > Not saying that pressing 5 buttons hard here, just think about how one button shouldn't be able to do so much, that's all OP is asking for and I'm just dipping in the fact that Symbol of Punishement whether you can step out of the AoE or not, being able to kill someone with one skill is not okay. > > Dealing 15k+ damage with one skill is definitely overdoing it. The fact that people complain about Sevenshot being able to do 5k damage every 7 seconds while this stuff exists shows the inconsistency in complains rather than reliable evidence of overperformance because "just dodge lol". > > 10k~ Damage is about as good as any power skill should be depending on CD, follow ups and excluding conditions because playing Hybrid to buff damage further has it's costs in stats. > > If we can't agree with all that and we're dumbing down gameplay then why did we nerf Sevenshot, just dodge lol. (As the rev main I can attest that I'm glad they nerfed it because it was definitely OP.) As little reason there is to not play anything else but Renegade still, let's not make it even more mandatory by restoring what it used to be because we can just dodge, there's way more to it that just what OP just showed Lighting Orb to be doing to him. I appreciate you taking the time to write this all out! Pretty good explanation of the issue.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > The point that necro has bad internet? > This is a teleport hack. Bad internet looks different. > > When someone has bad internet, then he slows down or moves in a straight line and then teleports the distance he could have travelled in this time with normal movement: > position sync with server > connection lost (server has to guess what the player does) > next position sync with server > player is teleported to the actual position. > > The moment you see someone speed up, it's a hack. And that necro does speed up. I don't know... @"Filip.7463" seemed really sure of himself and good at PvP in his first post. I trust him.

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > Necromancers with rune of speed, wurm and spectral walk have some crazy mobility, but this guy isn't using anything of that, it's just speed hack. Report for botting, they'll check it. No, watch the video very closely. He's using some crazy Necro ability. You're not allowed to post videos of people speed hacking, so I definitely wouldn't do that.

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > If you get crowd controlled by whatever that one skill means death. It must have its drawbacks since almost nobody uses it, but being on the receiving end of that thing is absolutely unpleasant. Not asking for a nerf, just stating that it hurts a lot. This is mostly my point. Throw that into a team fight, or with any setup like a knockdown, and it's gg. I believe it's fine as a source of moderate, pulsing damage. This is clearly too high and should be changed, imo. > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > Here's what's happening from a Tempest's perspective when they use this skill. > > [https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I](https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I) Lmao, great reference.