Math.5123

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"pninak.1069" said: > > > > > > > > I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fire > > > > > > > this alone is about 9k burn dmg. > > > > > > > 1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing... > > > > > > > oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D > > > > > > > > > > > > How are you getting 9k? > > > > > > > > > > mesmers torch burns for 3,5k. 1 stack for 9s. > > > > > zealots does 4 stacks for 2s, so that equales 1 stack for 8s. > > > > > on top of flip skill 3stacks for 3s = 1 stack for 9s, that already equals 17s burn if it was 1 stack. quick math thats 6,7k burn. > > > > > add in power dmg, and radiant fire bonus burn duration and here ya go. about 9k, depending on the rune it could be much more, on mesmer im using hybrid. > > > > > with balthazar I could see it being about 11-12k dmg over all if everything lands. > > > > > > > > Ok but you're comparing a pure damage skill / weapon to one that does other effects and it more utility( blind, stealth). Not only that but you would have to stand near on directly on top of someone for 3s as well as making sure to hit the flip skill shot, which removes the passive effect. > > > > > > > > I get what you're doing but something can look strong on paper but in practical application be nowhere near as powerful. > > > > > > and then torch 4 can be easy dodged, its 1 hit not 4 spread over, you dont have to dodge it 4 times to negate the damage, expecially since you have 3s heads up, and 2x the cooldown. its all a trade off. > > > look at it from a different angle, if you miss half the hits you still deal more dmg then any mesmer torch skill, on half the cooldown and with questionable cast time. > > > > You have the same 3s prep time if you want to get the most out of torch 4 on guard. Using the flip skill ends the effect on you and it has a really obvious animation and wind up. And again all it does is damage. It has 0 utility compared to mesmer torch. > > > > There's more to skills than how much damage they do... > > ofc, but the fact remains that this is kill button on 15s cd. with the ammout of CC flying around it does too much damage. > they gotta adress the CC first and see how it goes, doubt they will do a good job with their track record :D > btw I would trade any torch skill for it any day on mesmer, even if it had 30s cd Okay, there is so much misinformation here that i just have to chime in. First of, burn dh doesn't run torch or radiance. So this skill is a complete non-factor on any decent burn build. Secondly, try using the ability. The throw is ground bound, see sword 3, hammer 3, lb 3. Meaning you can't hit elevated targets with it. It's also extremely slow moving and doesn't home in on the target. The skill looks good on paper (just like engi pistol 4 and ranger torch skills) but it's hot garbage. No actual guard build has used torch in years, or ever.

This happened about 4/10 games on legacy on hot release. Double bunker chrono, double tempest.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"darren.1064" said: > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player *clicking* their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (_which they claim *DO NOT* exist_) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too > > > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > > > > > > Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but *anything* that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it. > > > > > > > > > > Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief. > > > > > > > > Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times. > > > > > > tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs > > > > > > how'd I do? > > > > Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times. > > It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because *survivability* doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water. Anything that can disengage and re-engage at will is very survivable. A thief should never die in a game, unless they severely misplay.> @"darren.1064" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"darren.1064" said: > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player *clicking* their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (_which they claim *DO NOT* exist_) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too > > > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > > > > > > Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but *anything* that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it. > > > > > > > > > > Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief. > > > > > > > > Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times. > > > > > > tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs > > > > > > how'd I do? > > > > Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times. > > You think the class with the biggest health pool + a second health pool doesn't have the highest survivability? Please hook me up with your plug. Necro is basically the least survivable class in the game. It has very low mobility, even with wurm and walk. It has no blocks, no evade frames and very little in combat heal. People that think hp = sustain just makes me question why i even bother. Water weaver is omega tanky, but it has the lowest health and armor class out of every class. But it survives because of it's insane evade uptime and resustain. Necro has neither.

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > DH f1 is a rly fast spear, I would Consider to make it not unblock able or reduce the projectile speed, it's pretty unfun mechanic but maybe I am just to slow First off, the only dh build that's the least bit problematic doesn't even use f1. (See permeating wrath) Secondly, it's a .75s cast time + travel time. You can't make it slower.

You people are funny

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. > > > > The only reason it's being played is because it farms kalla renegade. Reaper is still better in teamfights. > > > > Id still like to see this build gone, just because it farms bad players to an unhealthy > > Ok, but its still popluar in high lvl ATs Yes, because so is Kalla.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. The only reason it's being played is because it farms kalla renegade. Reaper is still better in teamfights. Id still like to see this build gone, just because it farms bad players to an unhealthy lvl.