PvP should use Specialization Icons

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > My belief is that we should be able to see everyone's Elite spec. More so since some specs hard counters others. It'll leave some of the guess work out. Allowing you to spec accordingly.

> >

> > At current moment I see no benefits from hiding who is using what Elite spec. I do see the harm in not showing who is what. More so since we are not giving the option to build mid match. Like most other dedicated PvP titles I plays.

> >

> > Hiding players Elite spec as seen to date. Do not stop players from griefing other players. So that point is nonsense to even think about.

>

> I think elites should be shown and locking builds as soon as you enter should be done to stop people from just switching to a hard counter to eliminate a player. You should have to play how you entered not buildwars trying to get a cheap win or chase a certain player around because you found out x spec can never lose to x spec eliminating all the skill required when you know the outcome.

>

> There should be no such thing as a hard counter if the games going to be conquest and each player will end up in 1v1 then no build should eliminate another entirely.

 

IMO:

 

You should be allowed to build switch and even character switch, having knowledge is an essential part of being better than the guy without knowledge. Knowledge then intertwines with skills and builds, rotations and various know hows on when to act and respond... But, this is GW2, a game that tries really hard to have new players play on the same field as vet players, they don't need knowledge, just fast hands to spam skills with large over packed offensive AoE skills.

 

As for Elite icons: It's apart of the knowledge. He may have a thief icon, but seeing his staff indicates he is a Daredevil. That's already spelling it out to me, do we really need to drop the bar even lower for those who do not understand classes or mechanics or do you think maybe they could learn? Get some knowledge so to speak.

[troops.8276]

Of course ppl can learn. Having your team display spec icons at the beginning would help you learn. Seeing the enemies spec icons at the end would help you analyse what happened. For those that care to look. With all the effects and fast pace it's not intuitive when you first start. I personally had to play at least a couple of games in each class and spec while bouncing back and forth between metabattle and I still don't know what's going on. Ppl play weird builds and playstyles in unranked which doesn't really help much in ranked. All the passives hinder learning for myself, things don't need to be over complicated to be skillfull or tactical, look at chess. But for me, having the icons shown as I outlined at the beginning would have sped the process up a whole lot. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[Morwath.9817]

I would rather get replay feature and proper matchmaking, which doesn't allow class stacking (so yes, FOTM rollers would sit in ques for eternity).

[sinew.8724]

i agree, i have to keep asking my allies what they are running, would be nice to see... maybe under the ready up we could remove people having to talk to thier mates with this, we can remove more player interaction by having an option to declare if we want to go home, mid or far.... and an option to say we are bunker/roamer/ support (healing is a form of support)/dps. your team would be the only people able to see this, and old icon for enemy team. but often you see a few of the same people on the enemy team every now and again, so you should know what they are too, and if you tell your team mates that helps them too, i like to remind allies to stay near the support so s/he can support you.

and maybe switch char should be allowed, but if your team has 2 of a class you cant switch to that class... the ranked where people que as one thing and switched so they could have more nec on their team was annoying.

[troops.8276]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> I would rather get replay feature and proper matchmaking, which doesn't allow class stacking (so yes, FOTM rollers would sit in ques for eternity).

 

Actually that sounds much much better.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

> @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > > My belief is that we should be able to see everyone's Elite spec. More so since some specs hard counters others. It'll leave some of the guess work out. Allowing you to spec accordingly.

> > >

> > > At current moment I see no benefits from hiding who is using what Elite spec. I do see the harm in not showing who is what. More so since we are not giving the option to build mid match. Like most other dedicated PvP titles I plays.

> > >

> > > Hiding players Elite spec as seen to date. Do not stop players from griefing other players. So that point is nonsense to even think about.

> >

> > I think elites should be shown and locking builds as soon as you enter should be done to stop people from just switching to a hard counter to eliminate a player. You should have to play how you entered not buildwars trying to get a cheap win or chase a certain player around because you found out x spec can never lose to x spec eliminating all the skill required when you know the outcome.

> >

> > There should be no such thing as a hard counter if the games going to be conquest and each player will end up in 1v1 then no build should eliminate another entirely.

>

> IMO:

>

> You should be allowed to build switch and even character switch, having knowledge is an essential part of being better than the guy without knowledge. Knowledge then intertwines with skills and builds

 

this doesnt really go by me well as good logic we only get one minute to switch back and fourth to keep countering eachother before the game starts considering everyone has equal knowledge and would keep switching roles in reaction at some point time runs out and someone gets countered anyways which probably wouldnt happen often in games but is well in theory to counter arguement.

 

[FOX.3582]

> @LUST.7241 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > When HoT released players were griefing/harassing players not using ESs or having the Expansion so they removed the icons

>

> It's pointless to remove it because of that reason.

> Far more beneficial to everyone knowing what spec someone is running at the very least.

 

 

Very true. But Anet often likes to listen to the wrong people.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > > @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > > > My belief is that we should be able to see everyone's Elite spec. More so since some specs hard counters others. It'll leave some of the guess work out. Allowing you to spec accordingly.

> > > >

> > > > At current moment I see no benefits from hiding who is using what Elite spec. I do see the harm in not showing who is what. More so since we are not giving the option to build mid match. Like most other dedicated PvP titles I plays.

> > > >

> > > > Hiding players Elite spec as seen to date. Do not stop players from griefing other players. So that point is nonsense to even think about.

> > >

> > > I think elites should be shown and locking builds as soon as you enter should be done to stop people from just switching to a hard counter to eliminate a player. You should have to play how you entered not buildwars trying to get a cheap win or chase a certain player around because you found out x spec can never lose to x spec eliminating all the skill required when you know the outcome.

> > >

> > > There should be no such thing as a hard counter if the games going to be conquest and each player will end up in 1v1 then no build should eliminate another entirely.

> >

> > IMO:

> >

> > You should be allowed to build switch and even character switch, having knowledge is an essential part of being better than the guy without knowledge. Knowledge then intertwines with skills and builds

>

> this doesnt really go by me well as good logic we only get one minute to switch back and fourth to keep countering eachother before the game starts considering everyone has equal knowledge and would keep switching roles in reaction at some point time runs out and someone gets countered anyways which probably wouldnt happen often in games but is well in theory to counter arguement.

>

 

And that would probably be a very interesting match if everyone decided to start countering each other because you'd end up with a new set of counters to each other.

[narcx.3570]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > My belief is that we should be able to see everyone's Elite spec. More so since some specs hard counters others. It'll leave some of the guess work out. Allowing you to spec accordingly.

> >

> > At current moment I see no benefits from hiding who is using what Elite spec. I do see the harm in not showing who is what. More so since we are not giving the option to build mid match. Like most other dedicated PvP titles I plays.

> >

> > Hiding players Elite spec as seen to date. Do not stop players from griefing other players. So that point is nonsense to even think about.

>

> I think elites should be shown and locking builds as soon as you enter should be done to stop people from just switching to a hard counter to eliminate a player. You should have to play how you entered not buildwars trying to get a cheap win or chase a certain player around because you found out x spec can never lose to x spec eliminating all the skill required when you know the outcome.

>

> There should be no such thing as a hard counter if the games going to be conquest and each player will end up in 1v1 then no build should eliminate another entirely.

 

I partly agree that switching to counter someone is sort of BS, but if you couldn't switch before the game started, they would have to make some serious changes to their matchmaking system because you'd be just stuck with some insanely terrible team comps/matchups... Which would just end with 1/2 your team not even trying after the first fight since they were already playing with a defeatist mentality before the match even started when they saw their team had 2 thiefs and a rev vs a balanced team comp.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

In gw1 there was no switching in random and you had to play out the bad teams which usually didnt last too long anyways compared to ten minute average, in organized you had to anticipate what you thought the other guild was running to counter them by prediction, otherwise in ta if you got defeated you could form a counter team and be at a disadvantage against other teams just to knockout the people that you want to counter.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

Edit on the forums is currently broken I also wasnt a fan of buildwars I was a fan of honor balanced and playing what you like to play the most and be the best at it instead of trying to cheap win with a build wars.

[troops.8276]

if mm went by spec not class and it was locked with no class stacking then there might be more diversity. But they don't.

 

If swapping is allowed, why bother with mm trying to avoid class stacking anyway. Why then show class icons but not spec if not to counter.

 

It seems like mixed messages.

 

[brannigan.9831]

A special icon that reflected was role you see yourself playing would be far more beneficial then something to mark that you are using an elite spec. The game should be smart enough to look at your amulet, runes, sigils, and build and give you a special icon. For example if you were a support Guardian or ele you would a have a little medical cross or something.

[Sorem.9157]

Everything everyone who's in favor of this said.

 

Plus DH and FB icon looks so much cooler than core Guard does

[Reaper Alim.4176]

How about taking this a step forwards. And being able to look at what builds our teammates are using. It works in actual successful competitive PvP titles. I believe it would work here in GW2 as well. But then again I doubt the devs even care enough, to even think about this or any WvW or sPvP suggestion.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> Edit on the forums is currently broken I also wasnt a fan of buildwars I was a fan of honor balanced and playing what you like to play the most and be the best at it instead of trying to cheap win with a build wars.

 

Aye so we are clearly 2 different gamers... I personally really enjoy the build wars, theory crafting and everything that comes with that. I can spend hours fine toothing a build through trial and error. I have 27 characters for PvP, all of which has a different build set up for easy switching, some have builds deemed so useless it throws others out when fighting them because they've had no experience fighting said builds whereas I've practised said builds against various opponents for a while. (spirit ranger, spirit guard, tank thief and so on... masochist problems) They all serve certain purposes and I deem them successful builds if they fill the potential role. (main reason I enjoy this game and PvP is due to roles aswell, PvE is just berserker, and roles in PvP wouldn't exist without "build wars")

[draxynnic.3719]

As long as switching remains a thing, I'm inclined to think you should be able to see what your allies are running, but not your enemies. This would mean that you can see if your own team is going to be unbalanced in some way and adjust accordingly, but it keeps the enemy team a mystery to avoid the situation of half the game being a matter of who can manage to rotate in a counterpick late enough that the other team can't counter-counterpick, but not so late that the counterpicking player(s) are absent at the start of the game.

 

While I recognise that this means that former allies that are now enemies may recognise your name and thus your build, this sort of thing happens anyway - if you have a significant impact on the game, both teams will probably have a decent idea of at least which elite spec (if any) you're running, and sometimes people do remember and warn their team if they see you again. However, there are ways to avoid this, such as switching builds (or even characters) between games. Showing the enemy team's elite specs, however, makes it fairly immediately obvious.