This game has gotten too fast for me

[lordhelmos.7623]

I took a 2 year break from the game, prior to leaving I did a lot of SPVP. I currently just WvW and PVE now.

 

Going back into SPVP since Path of Fire, I noticed the damage was way way way too high. On a Spellbreaker warrior I can hit with offhand dagger 4 for over 9k damage on a target with an animation that is less than .5 seconds of casting (and offhand dagger I hear is even considered bad). I am seeing 4-7k auto attacks from holos and mesmer bursts over 15k damage with less than a quarter second of reaction time.

 

The game has created an environment where it only takes one single mistake to die, even on the most defensive gear you can buy.

 

I am not going to single out any specific classes, because honestly I'm seeing the same thing on every class. Extremely high damage, very little indication of a burst, and little to no time to react.

 

I have seen unkillable soulbeasts burst for over 20k damage through stuns, holosmiths autoattack people to death in seconds with photo forges up, mesmers and thiefs autokill from stealth with insane surprise bursts, melting in seconds just standing next to scourges.... every class has some level of "make you explode BS."

 

I don't think high damage on certain skills is an issue if the game had better visual indicators so that you can actually react. However core problems seem like:

 

1.) Everyone does way too much damage (both power and conditions)

2.) Particle effects are atrocious and make it almost impossible to tell what is going on -especially from scourges.

3.) Many instagib comboes from various classes have no wind ups or very weak visual indicators. This was always a problem but is exacerbated beyond belief in HoT.

4.) Many classes have procs that can deal huge amounts of damage while still granting invulnerability windows. Full counter is an example.

5.) Many classes have auto defensive procs, which lets the AI and timers play for you.

 

This is extemely unhealthy for all games modes because:

 

A.) Defensive gear options don't matter since they are not nearly enough to mitigate the crazy amounts of damage floating around.

B.) Gameplay consists of loading your bar with 80% defensive skills and procs and rotating them hoping that an enemy makes a mistake first so that you can 0 to 100 him in less than a second. It was this way before I left in HoT, but its way way worse than it was before. Another common tactic is to use long range teleports to simply "be out of range" of the enemy's burst and try to bait their attacks into you while you teleport you so they fail due to range or obstruction issues.

C.) There is no strategy and very little counterplay because your first mistake will usually kill you, there is no "coming back" from a burst because it will just flat out kill you.

D.) Everyone pretty much has howitzers and paper armor, it wouldn't make a difference if everyone was just given a single shot longbow and 1hp because its the same gameplay experience. Classes are just different flavors of how to deliver the payload and there is extreme imbalance because everyone is lethal yet some classes have way better defensive CDs than others (e.g. mesmers who have almost triple the inventory of stealths, invuls, evades, stuns, dazes, and lockdown than some other classes).

E.) For new players or people that don't understand classes, death is usually sudden with very bad indicators. To avoid death you have to simply know your enemies class and "predict" when they will spike you. There is no "reacting after the enemy uses their key skill" because the animations are so fast and the particle effects are so bad that you probably wont see it or will not be able to react in time. Mesmer again is the cultprit of this, as they can cover your screen with garbage and instakill you with no casting delay at the same time.

 

I think the above is ultimately why Gw2 failed in competitive SPVP.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Welcome back :)

[pah.4931]

Anet has seem to lost their way when it comes to balancing around risk/reward ... the amount of spammable / insta-cast abilities is insane, mostly because everything is designed around PvE and COOL flavor, and then the 3 or so people tasked to work on PvP are left to do what they can when they are given permission to even try (which doesn't seem to happen often).

 

The PvE/Professions team has also GREATLY underestimated the power of evades/blocks/invulns when it comes to PvP.

 

Of course, the decision to make every single map Conquest didn't help either. If you want to create a very "meta" heavy world, then make every single map have the exact same win condition, and therefore the same exact classes will always excel at the different needed archetypes or roles.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

Not much to add but Thumbs Up.

[Ghos.1326]

I agree. I have not quit however, and I don't know if I will for a while, but I agree. As well to add, the lines between different roles on builds are extremely blurred. A burster can also be an off tank, while also doing great sustained damage, and so on and so on.

[brannigan.9831]

An ability like full counter is garbage thats for sure and awful design.

[OriOri.8724]

Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

 

* Reduce bonus damage from traits across the board

* Reduce stealth access across the board

* Reduce the amount of unblockable attacks across the board. Chief targets should be skills that make your next couple attacks unblockable. These should be extremely limited skills, and each one should have a very limited number of uses (think 2, 3 skills affected maximum). All traits that proc lesser versions of these skills should be removed. Ideally, 95% of the unblockable things in the game should just be non damaging: applying a condition, stripping/converting/stealing a boon.

* Reduce the amount of blocks in the game, but not too much. Will just be necessary after reducing the amount of unblockable shit that exists

* Massive rebalancing of skills, making sure that skills aren't doing too much crap at once

[bLind.6278]

Welcome to modern MMO development, where power creep is the standard, and devs don't give a fuck about PvP balance whatsoever.

 

PvE shitters just want to see big numbers. Why have an expansion or two if damage doesn't go up with them? How else do you sell them? Balance? Mechanics?

 

Lol. Anet avoids that shit like the plague.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

 

Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

>

> Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

 

Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

[Oozo.7856]

Ori is right. A good bit of the retarded damage you see coming from some classes has to do with stacking % dmg increases.

[Zionite.5924]

I'm back after a long break and I'm in decent gear I think and maybe averaged skilled at pvp. Full exotics. This game wasn't heavily gear based, but, damn, I've been getting two shotted in PVP. It's the only thing in GW2 that I cannot stand. It just makes me irritated. And that new victory/losing screen? Talk about discouraging. I saw that and instantly thought, "well, that's enough pvp for me".

Some of the changes to skills I like, but I can definitely agree with the OP.

Fortunately, GW2 has so many enjoyable aspects outside of PVP so I mainly focus on that. I don't have as much time to play and practice as I used to so when I try to avoid PVP because I don't want the limited time I do have to be taken up by being steamrolled and the overall toxicity.

 

I am more than happy being a PVE carebear because it allows me to enjoy the game and not rage quit.

[Eiffel.8937]

sigh yeah the burst dmg and power creep ...

I am already at a point where I would happily trade in fluent gameplay

for 1 second global cooldown after 1 key is pressed

so the idotic spam of skills all at once come to a halt

[Ferus.3165]

solution: block all elite specs from pvp and revert all core classes back to pre HoT status (nerf rev accordingly and then allow core rev aswell)

ofc only in pvp (and maybe wvw)

[pah.4931]

> @"Zionite.5924" said:

> I'm back after a long break and I'm in decent gear I think and maybe averaged skilled at pvp. Full exotics. This game wasn't heavily gear based, but, kitten, I've been getting two shotted in PVP. It's the only thing in GW2 that I cannot stand. It just makes me irritated. And that new victory/losing screen? Talk about discouraging. I saw that and instantly thought, "well, that's enough pvp for me".

> Some of the changes to skills I like, but I can definitely agree with the OP.

> Fortunately, GW2 has so many enjoyable aspects outside of PVP so I mainly focus on that. I don't have as much time to play and practice as I used to so when I try to avoid PVP because I don't want the limited time I do have to be taken up by being steamrolled and the overall toxicity.

>

> I am more than happy being a PVE carebear because it allows me to enjoy the game and not rage quit.

 

Gear doesn't matter in sPvP (though it does in WvW). Only thing that matters is your "build" (most stats come from your amulet, then some more from runes). The gear you're wearing when you go into a match (white, green, yellow, orange, pink) doesn't affect your stats. You may already know this, but just in case you don't I thought I'd throw this out there.

 

You may need a different amulet / rune setup if you're getting blown up so quickly. You can go to the PvP lobby to set up different builds.

[Aza.2105]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

>

> * Reduce bonus damage from traits across the board

> * Reduce stealth access across the board

> * Reduce the amount of unblockable attacks across the board. Chief targets should be skills that make your next couple attacks unblockable. These should be extremely limited skills, and each one should have a very limited number of uses (think 2, 3 skills affected maximum). All traits that proc lesser versions of these skills should be removed. Ideally, 95% of the unblockable things in the game should just be non damaging: applying a condition, stripping/converting/stealing a boon.

> * Reduce the amount of blocks in the game, but not too much. Will just be necessary after reducing the amount of unblockable kitten that exists

> * Massive rebalancing of skills, making sure that skills aren't doing too much crap at once

 

You seemed to forgot evade on skills.

[witcher.3197]

My theory is that Anet balance team doesn't play PvP and has no idea whatsoever about the state of the gamemode, **instead they operate on principles.**

 

What I mean is, eversince Celestial was added they had the mindset of "bunkers are good, we need to add more tanky builds". Eversince the spectacular failure of season 1 they changed it. "Oh okay, we get it now, sustain is bad, everyone should just oneshot and autoattacks should hit for 20-50% of the average HP!".

 

**GOING FROM ONE EXTREME TO ANOTHER IS _NOT_ WHAT BALANCE MEANS**

 

So they'll just keep buffing damage into oblivion, and this time there are no live money tournaments that'd make them actually care.

 

They nerfed damage on like 10 skills this time, gj guys huge step forward, that's like splashing a bucket of water at a burning skyscraper every 3 months and calling it job well done.

 

I don't mean to insult the balance team, but.. honestly I just can't say anything nice about them, in my opinion they are so incredibly clueless that I have nothing constructive to say, because why bother at this point..

[Phoenix the One.4071]

Feel like it has always been like this, now thre are just more cookiecutter build and one trick ponies..

They should never have nerfed trap-guards, they would have suited this meta perfectly xD

[Eiffel.8937]

> @"Phoenix the One.4071" said:

> Feel like it has always been like this, now thre are just more cookiecutter build and one trick ponies..

> They should never have nerfed trap-guards, they would have suited this meta perfectly xD

 

lol yeah dragonhunter is a good example on how they told core rangers "you suck your traps are way worse and the direct dmg build with bow is worse too

welcome to HoT buy it or be left in the dust" ...

I absolutly cant understand the powercreep that came with every addon as they really should have more respect for their story creators

this game does not need to go the p2w way to get an addon sold

 

 

[Razor.6392]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

>

> * Reduce bonus damage from traits across the board

> * Reduce stealth access across the board

> * Reduce the amount of unblockable attacks across the board. Chief targets should be skills that make your next couple attacks unblockable. These should be extremely limited skills, and each one should have a very limited number of uses (think 2, 3 skills affected maximum). All traits that proc lesser versions of these skills should be removed. Ideally, 95% of the unblockable things in the game should just be non damaging: applying a condition, stripping/converting/stealing a boon.

> * Reduce the amount of blocks in the game, but not too much. Will just be necessary after reducing the amount of unblockable kitten that exists

> * Massive rebalancing of skills, making sure that skills aren't doing too much crap at once

 

So basically redesign the entire game.

 

At that point we might as well wait for gw3. Pvp is beyond help.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Oozo.7856" said:

> Ori is right. A good bit of the kitten damage you see coming from some classes has to do with stacking % dmg increases.

 

Some of it is also how low cool down a lot of newer skills have too with very big base modifiers. For example holo leap has a 1.8 modifier and a 2s cool down, remember true shot? Was originally 4s cool down on a 2.0 modifier.

 

If you look at skill coefficients and cool downs before the expansions you will see there weren’t that many skills that hit this hard on this low of a cool down. The whole photon forge cool downs would look more like auto, 6s, 8s, 12s, 20s for cool downs before the expansions but are auto, 2s, 6s, 10s, 15s. The low cool downs of impactful skills also plays its part and because of this you need more defences too which is why those cool downs have been steadily decreased ever since the expansions hit.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> solution: block all elite specs from pvp and revert all core classes back to pre HoT status (nerf rev accordingly and then allow core rev aswell)

> ofc only in pvp (and maybe wvw)

 

This is a really really bad idea, some core classes, namely those seen as “weak” after elite spec nerfs have been receiving buff upon buff upon buff to the point where the core specs aren’t very balanced in relation anymore. SD thief is a great example of this.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> >

> > * Reduce bonus damage from traits across the board

> > * Reduce stealth access across the board

> > * Reduce the amount of unblockable attacks across the board. Chief targets should be skills that make your next couple attacks unblockable. These should be extremely limited skills, and each one should have a very limited number of uses (think 2, 3 skills affected maximum). All traits that proc lesser versions of these skills should be removed. Ideally, 95% of the unblockable things in the game should just be non damaging: applying a condition, stripping/converting/stealing a boon.

> > * Reduce the amount of blocks in the game, but not too much. Will just be necessary after reducing the amount of unblockable kitten that exists

> > * Massive rebalancing of skills, making sure that skills aren't doing too much crap at once

>

> So basically redesign the entire game.

>

> At that point we might as well wait for gw3. Pvp is beyond help.

 

I'd say instead that the fact they realized that splitting skills between game modes is a good thing, we could consider this as a new start.

 

Among the ranked system i will do some changes:

 

* Removing duoq from the whole system

* Removing class swap

* Only 1x class every single match ( or eventually, 1x Elite, but given the fact that every class has its own best build, i would prefer 1x class ).

 

About the game

 

* Remove all passive traits ( and redesign them into something else ). you will have to use all your skills yourself. No automatic help from traits.

* Remove all stealth mechanics ( no more stealth, and an easier target call/target assist ) and redesign skills which allow stealth into something else ( or simply disable them ).

* Limit the skills which gives you evade.

* Instead of giving XX necks, rework them entirely into something class related. this will provvide a better balance ( if a marauder neck is fine on a class but op on another, why nerf it instead of give them different stats? )

* Remove all runes and add some new SPvP runes, depends the role you want to play ( as for necks, consider to balance them depends the class ).

 

Etc...

 

This, however, before any modify to classes.

So ofc there will be a time when classes would be unbalanced, but after that more balance could be brought.

 

But if you consider how meaningless is to balance in the current way, some months won't be a big deal.

 

ps: these are just suggestion, but the sooner they start to consider SPvP something totally apart from the other game modes and stop caring about "players should learn different skills..." because i guess i can say that we don't care if the goal is to bring balance, the better.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> solution: block all elite specs from pvp and revert all core classes back to pre HoT status (nerf rev accordingly and then allow core rev aswell)

> ofc only in pvp (and maybe wvw)

 

Yes, elite specs should be banned from any form of ranked pvp and tournaments

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> >

> > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

>

> Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

 

Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.