Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> > > > "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

> > >

> > > How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

> > >

> > > I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

> >

> > It's funny that it's mostly techies here (and on reddit) who can explain why the tool is spyware and violates your privacy. We know exactly how the Internet and computers work, what processes are and packages and how encrypting works. People who haven't figured out how things work usually have no issue with it. Those who only have a vague understanding of things tend to trust authorites more.

>

> It ... doesn't change the fact that you accept to be monitored to an extend by agreeing to the ToS.

>

> And that in order to fight cheaters, at some point they need some information about what you're doing.

 

Except, your fact is not a fact. Firstly, the ToS do not apply to me for legal reasons in Europe. But that doesn't really matter, I get it. Fact is that even if they applied to me, I never consented in Anet pulling data about all software that is running on my computer and sending it to their servers basically unencrypted. That clearly extends the kind of monitoring I accepted. If you accept to being monitored in other games, you accept that the tool they install checks if you run anything related to their client, and that's exactly what they do. They don't scan folders or software that doesn't interfere with their client.

 

There is a principle in IT security that's called Principle of least privilege:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_privilege

 

> In information security, computer science, and other fields, the principle of least privilege (PoLP, also known as the principle of minimal privilege or the principle of least authority) requires that in a particular abstraction layer of a computing environment, every module (such as a process, a user, or a program, depending on the subject) must be able to access only the information and resources that are necessary for its legitimate purpose.

 

It's really one of the basic principles and the developer who created the tool knows it. Either he willingly ignored it, or he was asked by management to do so after he told them about it. Maybe Anet wanted the additional information that was not neccessary for the tool to work. Maybe they are making money with it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of companies who would be interested in data (even anonymized) about what kind of software is installed/running on thousands of computers of people who like to play MMO games. It's even interesting for ArenaNet and NCSoft. Honestly, if I were in charge there, I would be very tempted to use that data instead of deleting it.

[Shikigami.4013]

German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

 

For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

 

Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

[Shikigami.4013]

> @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

 

Best example of someone who is not even able to read and understand **one single lone paragraph** of what they are agreeing to.

 

You may have missed this sentence in what you just had been presented with in the post you answered to:

 

YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

 

If you still don't get it: This says that they may transfer data ("communicate any information") between your PC ("between hardware you use") and their game client ("with the game") and/or any other software they may choose for transmitting that data ("and any mechanism ArenaNet may choose").

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

>

> For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

>

> Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

 

No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

 

The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They fucked up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

[Shikigami.4013]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

> >

> > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

> >

> > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

>

> No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

>

> The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

 

I have to tell you that his will have zero effect because the new european legislation (in germany called quite lengthy EU-DSGVO) aims at -and regulates- only personal data (in german "personenbezogene Daten") which means data that may use to identify you like names, date of birth, address, data about accounts that are required to know your personal data like bank accounts and so on. The new legislation does not apply to hashes of processes running on your PC.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

> > >

> > > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

> > >

> > > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

> >

> > No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

> >

> > The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

>

> I have to tell you that his will have zero effect because the new european legislation (in germany called quite lengthy EU-DSGVO) aims at -and regulates- only personal data (in german "personenbezogene Daten") which means data that may use to identify you like names, date of birth, address, data about accounts that are required to know your personal data like bank accounts and so on. The new legislation does not apply to hashes of processes running on your PC.

 

It's not that easy, and really depends on the data that was collected in specific cases. If you have "word.exe" running on your computer and Anet knows, it's not really sensitive in my point of view. If you have "applicationmain.exe" running, things change dramatically when it comes to "personenbezogene Daten". Now Anet and whoever captured the data on transfer knows you have diabetes. I can think of other possible processes running on a computer that reveal sensitive information.

 

We will have to see how the Datenschutzgrundverordnung affects real cases in the coming years.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> > > > > "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

> > > >

> > > > How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

> > > >

> > > > I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

> > >

> > > It's funny that it's mostly techies here (and on reddit) who can explain why the tool is spyware and violates your privacy. We know exactly how the Internet and computers work, what processes are and packages and how encrypting works. People who haven't figured out how things work usually have no issue with it. Those who only have a vague understanding of things tend to trust authorites more.

> >

> > It ... doesn't change the fact that you accept to be monitored to an extend by agreeing to the ToS.

> >

> > And that in order to fight cheaters, at some point they need some information about what you're doing.

>

> Except, your fact is not a fact. Firstly, the ToS do not apply to me for legal reasons in Europe. But that doesn't really matter, I get it. Fact is that even if they applied to me, I never consented in Anet pulling data about all software that is running on my computer and sending it to their servers basically unencrypted. That clearly extends the kind of monitoring I accepted. If you accept to being monitored in other games, you accept that the tool they install checks if you run anything related to their client, and that's exactly what they do. They don't scan folders or software that doesn't interfere with their client.

>

> There is a principle in IT security that's called Principle of least privilege:

>

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_privilege

>

> > In information security, computer science, and other fields, the principle of least privilege (PoLP, also known as the principle of minimal privilege or the principle of least authority) requires that in a particular abstraction layer of a computing environment, every module (such as a process, a user, or a program, depending on the subject) must be able to access only the information and resources that are necessary for its legitimate purpose.

>

> It's really one of the basic principles and the developer who created the tool knows it. Either he willingly ignored it, or he was asked by management to do so after he told them about it. Maybe Anet wanted the additional information that was not neccessary for the tool to work. Maybe they are making money with it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of companies who would be interested in data (even anonymized) about what kind of software is installed/running on thousands of computers of people who like to play MMO games. It's even interesting for ArenaNet and NCSoft. Honestly, if I were in charge there, I would be very tempted to use that data instead of deleting it.

 

OK, enough with this "I'm in europe so I get to do what I want"

Yes, you can ignore ToS (just like anyone can), ToS aren't laws. But It's also their servers, owned by them, they do whatever they want with it.

What is means is that if you don't care about their ToS, then Anet can deny you the service, there is ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION for them to continue to service you if you don't comply to their terms. If you're not going to be honest (which this whole thread is seriously lacking anyway) and sign something without the intention to respect it, why should they?

Beside VAC bans are still a thing on Steam, and you don't see European players get unbanned just because they claim that they were monitored as with agreed by the TOS.

I'm originating from Europe and I would never have pointed that as an argument in this type of debate. This is just not the place to debate them and that makes otherwise good european laws sound ridiculous and abusive. Please stop.

Why aren't people dropping this side of the problem is beyond understanding.

 

And thanks for copy pasting something that doesn't apply here. Anet didn't look at your document and read them. They didn't check folders, , they checked at processes in an action that they judged was necessary to ensure no cheat. You can AGAIN argue that there were better ways to do it (looking at hooks versus looking at processes) but assuming malicious intent (like you are doing) is absurd. Without so many cheaters, so many dishonest players, you wouldn't get this ToS that are there to PROTECT a company and its players.

 

 

[Belorn.2659]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > > > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

> > > >

> > > > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

> > > >

> > > > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

> > >

> > > No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

> > >

> > > The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

> >

> > I have to tell you that his will have zero effect because the new european legislation (in germany called quite lengthy EU-DSGVO) aims at -and regulates- only personal data (in german "personenbezogene Daten") which means data that may use to identify you like names, date of birth, address, data about accounts that are required to know your personal data like bank accounts and so on. The new legislation does not apply to hashes of processes running on your PC.

>

> It's not that easy, and really depends on the data that was collected in specific cases. If you have "word.exe" running on your computer and Anet knows, it's not really sensitive in my point of view. If you have "applicationmain.exe" running, things change dramatically when it comes to "personenbezogene Daten". Now Anet and whoever captured the data on transfer knows you have diabetes. I can think of other possible processes running on a computer that reveal sensitive information.

>

> We will have to see how the Datenschutzgrundverordnung affects real cases in the coming years.

 

It is not that they know you got "word.exe" installed but rather "word.exe" version 1.2.3.4 with known vulnerabilities A and B . But instead of word.exe it might be that banking software that people installed 10 years ago and not been updated since. It could be that VPN that is illegal to run in your country but who would ever find that out. It could be that tool that leakers use and is ground for dismissal at that company you work at. It could be that command and control software from work which should normally not be install on a private computer for security reasons but it has just been so convenient when working from home.

 

I have said it before. if the information is harmless then anet should prove it by posting the process list of a developers computer here on the forum. If their security personal will sign off on that then I would be massively surprised.

[Zok.4956]

> @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

> > >

> > > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

> > >

> > > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

> >

> > No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

> >

> > The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

>

> I have to tell you that his will have zero effect because the new european legislation (in germany called quite lengthy EU-DSGVO) aims at -and regulates- only personal data (in german "personenbezogene Daten") which means data that may use to identify you like names, date of birth, address, data about accounts that are required to know your personal data like bank accounts and so on. The new legislation does not apply to hashes of processes running on your PC.

 

The email-address itself is personal data ("personenbezogene Daten") and falls under the GDPR/DSGVO act. Also all data that is collected/related/linked to personal data is also considered personal data. With the hashes someone can check against existing hashes of software/processes and can find out which software (even the one **that is not related to GW2 at all**) you are running on your machine .

 

The data that the Anet-spyware collected (and unsecurly transmitted over the internet) is related/linked to an account and therefore to an email-address. So it is also considered personal data according to the GDPR/DSGVO act (and also according to the german BDSG law).

 

P.S. I do not bot, I hate botters. But the end does not justify the means. My account is and was never banned/suspended from Anet for any reasons whatsoever and I do not play other games from which I know the game uses heavily spy-software. This is why I deeply feel a strong abuse from A-net about of the trust I have/had for A-Net.

 

 

 

[Urud.4925]

Thanks @"Gaile Gray.6029" for the update. Having the names of the 3rd-party software that caused the bans is a helpful info. More than what other companies say in these cases. I also appreciate that you finally allowed people to contact Support for inquiries. I have nothing to complain, since I didn't use any illegal SW and I haven't been banned. But it's good to know that ArenaNet won't slam the door to 1,5k players without listen to them, since mistakes can always happen. However I hope that after reading the names of the SW, few people will complain and send tickets.

 

Thanks also to @"GreyWolf.8670" for the info. Several publishers use XingCode3, GameGuard and other anti-cheat programs that cannot even be removed from our PC (unless done it manually). And that's not better than what ArenaNet did, spying our running processes. Anet did it in sneaky mode, and then hopefully stopped, for now. But it's not uncommon for a publisher to monitor our systems. I actually prefer this way over XingCode or GameGuard, that would always slow down the game and could be bypassed at some point.

[Grogba.6204]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

 

Maybe your license shoud be removed then as you are danger for yourself and other people, considering you cannot obey the law when it comes to speeding.

 

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Shikigami.4013" said:

> > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years.

> >

> > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio.

> >

> > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany".....

>

> No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then.

>

> The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did.

 

I completely disagree with the idea that Anet didn't do anyone a favor...

 

For the people who follow this, closely and deeply, which is a very small percentage of the player base. it'll make a difference. Most of the playerbase won't even know this happened.

 

Beyond that, I'm happy some cheaters were banned, period. I don't love that some people got false bans, but I do want cheaters banned.

 

For ages people post about Anet not doing anything about cheating and now that they do, people are complaining...but not everyone is complaining. I'm not complaining. 1500 people is a pretty small percentage of people playing the game after all.

 

The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was saying straight up there would be no appeals. That's NEVER a good look. But I think there are people that are fine with what happened, just as there are people who aren't.

 

 

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[ZDragon.3046]

**A few points to look at here**

All these people talking about their data like its a big deal. If you know you dont have anything that reveals your personal info running then you shouldnt be concerned about them looking at your computers processes. To be honest most mmo games use a common feature similar to this a very commonly used one being known as **"Game Guard".**

The fact that you all are getting all up set like you have never had this kind of software running on your computers before is so insane. This kind of software only looks at processes running on the computer while the game is running and nothing more. Its well within arenanets rights to use it as you agreed to the terms and regulations of such software when you play their game. WHAT THEY DID WAS PERFECTLY LEAGAL.

 

**"But its linked an account and to my email so it counts as invasion of privacy"**

Which you also gave anet anyways when you made your game account. You already gave them your personal information they didnt need this tool to get anything more. Once again there is another long terms and regulations page on account creation that the majority of you likely skipped right over and said "ok"

 

Getting caught and trying to flip the script now just to get even as if anet is suppose to compromise for you.

 

**A note for those who actually cheated**

You sure were not concerned about your privacy when you downloaded those tools used to cheat if anything you likely put your privacy at risk more so doing that than anything. Downloading something from a 3rd party when you dont know its contents are safe is a major risk to take when it comes to talking about personal privacy and data.

 

Not only have you cheaters been cheating you have now been busted in a lie saying that you never ran such programs. IF they have weeks worth of data connected to your account showing that you ran programs not deemed appropriate then yes you deserved to be suspended.

Even if you didnt use the programs to "Cheat" you know that you shouldn't be running 3rd party software in general as its always been a USE AT YOUR OWN RISK kind of deal and you knew what you were getting into.

 

Realistically if anet was to flip the script on you and say that using such programs invaded the privacy of their servers or caused damage to them you would be in serious trouble. Any time you do things like this you run the risk of causing errors and damage to their servers which cost them money to fix. IF they were to take legal action against you "The cheater" you would be 100% screwed.

 

You got lucky getting off with a 6 month suspension if it was up to me all accounts in question would be permanently closed. I do not approve cheating in any online competitive game.

 

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> **A few points to look at here**

> All these people talking about their data like its a big deal. If you know you dont have anything that reveals your personal info running then you shouldnt be concerned about them looking at your computers processes. To be honest most mmo games use a common feature similar to this a very commonly used one being known as **"Game Guard".**

> The fact that you all are getting all up set like you have never had this kind of software running on your computers before is so insane. This kind of software only looks at processes running on the computer while the game is running and nothing more. Its well within arenanets rights to use it as you agreed to the terms and regulations of such software when you play their game. WHAT THEY DID WAS PERFECTLY LEAGAL.

>

> **"But its linked an account and to my email so it counts as invasion of privacy"**

> Which you also gave anet anyways when you made your game account. You already gave them your personal information they didnt need this tool to get anything more. Once again there is another long terms and regulations page on account creation that the majority of you likely skipped right over and said "ok"

>

> Getting caught and trying to flip the script now just to get even as if anet is suppose to compromise for you.

>

> **A note for those who actually cheated**

> You sure were not concerned about your privacy when you downloaded those tools used to cheat if anything you likely put your privacy at risk more so doing that than anything. Downloading something from a 3rd party when you dont know its contents are safe is a major risk to take when it comes to talking about personal privacy and data.

>

> Not only have you cheaters been cheating you have now been busted in a lie saying that you never ran such programs. IF they have weeks worth of data connected to your account showing that you ran programs not deemed appropriate then yes you deserved to be suspended.

> Even if you didnt use the programs to "Cheat" you know that you shouldn't be running 3rd party software in general as its always been a USE AT YOUR OWN RISK kind of deal and you knew what you were getting into.

>

> Realistically if anet was to flip the script on you and say that using such programs invaded the privacy of their servers or caused damage to them you would be in serious trouble. Any time you do things like this you run the risk of causing errors and damage to their servers which cost them money to fix. IF they were to take legal action against you "The cheater" you would be 100% screwed.

>

> You got lucky getting off with a 6 month suspension if it was up to me all accounts in question would be permanently closed. I do not approve cheating in any online competitive game.

>

>

 

Also pointing out using same detection as other mmos would kinda end up cheaters already found past it and your processes is not really private information and anet did it without telling was too find atleast some (if they told would kinda be like cop calling robber they are comming also warning) the eula is it dont say agree until it dont fit me its says AGREE you plain and simply agreed so can this please move on its not illegal for then every anti virus,browser be illegal

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"SlateSloan.3654" said:

>...

> we live in a world of laws and here it clearly is like that someone is always unguilty until prooven different.

>...

> you cannot say that someone who sits in a car gets punished for speeding if you have no proof that the person drove over the limits.

> ...

>. i recommend to arenanet to unlock all accounts asap.

I have a fair amount of suspicion about your innocence :)

 

This whole story is getting really funny. First we have seen posts people claiming they haven't used any programs, or only used taco / arcdps, then Anet published they actually monitored each and every account so there can't be false flags. Now these people are clinging to the last solution, debating the legal side of the issue :D

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > **A few points to look at here**

> > All these people talking about their data like its a big deal. If you know you dont have anything that reveals your personal info running then you shouldnt be concerned about them looking at your computers processes. To be honest most mmo games use a common feature similar to this a very commonly used one being known as **"Game Guard".**

> > The fact that you all are getting all up set like you have never had this kind of software running on your computers before is so insane. This kind of software only looks at processes running on the computer while the game is running and nothing more. Its well within arenanets rights to use it as you agreed to the terms and regulations of such software when you play their game. WHAT THEY DID WAS PERFECTLY LEAGAL.

> >

> > **"But its linked an account and to my email so it counts as invasion of privacy"**

> > Which you also gave anet anyways when you made your game account. You already gave them your personal information they didnt need this tool to get anything more. Once again there is another long terms and regulations page on account creation that the majority of you likely skipped right over and said "ok"

> >

> > Getting caught and trying to flip the script now just to get even as if anet is suppose to compromise for you.

> >

> > **A note for those who actually cheated**

> > You sure were not concerned about your privacy when you downloaded those tools used to cheat if anything you likely put your privacy at risk more so doing that than anything. Downloading something from a 3rd party when you dont know its contents are safe is a major risk to take when it comes to talking about personal privacy and data.

> >

> > Not only have you cheaters been cheating you have now been busted in a lie saying that you never ran such programs. IF they have weeks worth of data connected to your account showing that you ran programs not deemed appropriate then yes you deserved to be suspended.

> > Even if you didnt use the programs to "Cheat" you know that you shouldn't be running 3rd party software in general as its always been a USE AT YOUR OWN RISK kind of deal and you knew what you were getting into.

> >

> > Realistically if anet was to flip the script on you and say that using such programs invaded the privacy of their servers or caused damage to them you would be in serious trouble. Any time you do things like this you run the risk of causing errors and damage to their servers which cost them money to fix. IF they were to take legal action against you "The cheater" you would be 100% screwed.

> >

> > You got lucky getting off with a 6 month suspension if it was up to me all accounts in question would be permanently closed. I do not approve cheating in any online competitive game.

> >

> >

>

> Also pointing out using same detection as other mmos would kinda end up cheaters already found past it and your processes is not really private information and anet did it without telling was too find atleast some (if they told would kinda be like cop calling robber they are comming also warning) the eula is it dont say agree until it dont fit me its says AGREE you plain and simply agreed so can this please move on

 

^ Exactly

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Becuse before anet had it harder to actelly prove someone cheated since i am sure thousands of false cheat reports is sent every day wich makes it hard to filter(for sore losers exist) now then they have proof its get all if you who were suspended is so angry on anet why are you then still here you either love the game very much ore just want to stir people up

[Laila Lightness.8742]

And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

>

> Maybe your license shoud be removed then as you are danger for yourself and other people, considering you cannot obey the law when it comes to speeding.

>

 

Lucky for us.. we only get punished when caught.. and.. well.. you all got caught.. now take the points on your licence and your ticket like an adult.

[Faaris.8013]

Shikigami.4013 said:

 

>Except ArenaNet does not need proof. You already know it but you are too deep into your crusade against them to acknowledge this. Instead you choose to ignore all the posts where people have correctly stated and/or proven that ArenaNet can suspend or ban anyone they want to without proof of anything.

 

That may be true in countries that have no laws to protect customers from predatory companies (China? North Korea?). In my country, if you pay for a service, you have a right to use that service and the company that has taken your money is obliged to provide that service as long as you follow the rules. If you buy a ticket for a movie and it is explicitly forbidden to record it with a cam, and you start recording, the theater is absolutely in the right to kick you out without refund, you broke the contract. If you merely carry a smartphone that is capable of recording the movie, and they kick you out, they better refund you. If they don't, they open themselves up to law suits because they refused to provide the service that was paid for.

 

People here might have stated that Anet can ban without proof, but I highly doubt anyone has proven they can do that without consequences. If security guards you out of that theater because you carried a smartphone (and bans you for 6 months), you won't resist in that moment, but you will seek a refund later on. You might even make their actions public on social media and in your circles. If you really care enough, you will get your refund for the service you paid for that was not provided. And it doesn't matter if you bought a gift card to watch a movie weeks earlier with your money, in case you think gems are not like real money. Usually, companies back off quickly when confronted because they don't want to deal with the legal consequences.

 

The "without proof" claim is inaccurate. The company better has some proof for locking my money for 6 months. They can try that and hope that only a few people actually call their lawyer. Most probably won't, but if you had just bought gems for 120 bucks and got banned without proof that you broke any rule, it might be worth it.

 

This was a highly unprofessional chain of actions on Anet's side. If your company lacks the skills, knowledge and experience for a project, that's what external consultants are for. But maybe they thought they had the skills, knowledge and experience, and came up with this method believing everything is fine. If that's the case, it's time to review your business processes.

 

btw, none of my accounts has been banned, I just don't get why some people defend clearly wrong and autocratic behaviour from companies. Even White Knight No 1 here on these forums stated that he doesn't agree with how Anet conducted this raid, because he's somewhat rational despite his love for the company.

 

 

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

Funny how so many people are claiming cheatengine is not used for GW2. Just a quick google search shows it absolutely can and IS used to cheat in GW2. It's actually pretty shocking to see what it can accomplish and what players are really doing with it.

[Grogba.6204]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Lucky for us.. we only get punished when caught.. and.. well.. you all got caught.. now take the points on your licence and your ticket like an adult.

 

Assumptions, as always. I have neither botted, cheated nor used any non-greenlit third party software and I am also not banned from the game, I have to disappoint you and the witch hunters there.

 

The fact still remains that A-Net's detection tool is severely flawed and they could have prevented this mess from happening in the first place with better communication, less boasting - and then deleting their tweets afterwards - , not waving with a "no-appeals" thread when the same procedure has led to the same problems in the past (Players banned for speedhacking in central tyria after PoF because of mounts) and using a better tool in the first place. Just because you have cheat-engine on your pc doesn't mean that you use it for Guild Wars 2 in the same way having knives in your kitchen doesn't mean you use them to stab people.

 

Of course I have no reason to believe the people that got caught that they did not cheat the game but A-Net hasn't been trustworthy either in the past, innocent until proven guilty.

 

But it's far easier witchhunting and feeling good about how just and righteous we are, isn't it?

 

Edit: Oh wait! I cheated the shit out of the Age of Empires games, Anno series, Turok on the N64 and modded Steam games beyond repair. Clearly I am just as guilty to do this in an MMO as I am in single player games or multiplayer games according to you, aren't I?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> Shikigami.4013 said:

>

> >Except ArenaNet does not need proof. You already know it but you are too deep into your crusade against them to acknowledge this. Instead you choose to ignore all the posts where people have correctly stated and/or proven that ArenaNet can suspend or ban anyone they want to without proof of anything.

>

> That may be true in countries that have no laws to protect customers from predatory companies (China? North Korea?). In my country, if you pay for a service, you have a right to use that service and the company that has taken your money is obliged to provide that service as long as you follow the rules. If you buy a ticket for a movie and it is explicitly forbidden to record it with a cam, and you start recording, the theater is absolutely in the right to kick you out without refund, you broke the contract. If you merely carry a smartphone that is capable of recording the movie, and they kick you out, they better refund you. If they don't, they open themselves up to law suits because they refused to provide the service that was paid for.

>

> People here might have stated that Anet can ban without proof, but I highly doubt anyone has proven they can do that without consequences. If security guards you out of that theater because you carried a smartphone (and bans you for 6 months), you won't resist in that moment, but you will seek a refund later on. You might even make their actions public on social media and in your circles. If you really care enough, you will get your refund for the service you paid for that was not provided. And it doesn't matter if you bought a gift card to watch a movie weeks earlier with your money, in case you think gems are not like real money. Usually, companies back off quickly when confronted because they don't want to deal with the legal consequences.

>

> The "without proof" claim is inaccurate. The company better has some proof for locking my money for 6 months. They can try that and hope that only a few people actually call their lawyer. Most probably won't, but if you had just bought gems for 120 bucks and got banned without proof that you broke any rule, it might be worth it.

>

> This was a highly unprofessional chain of actions on Anet's side. If your company lacks the skills, knowledge and experience for a project, that's what external consultants are for. But maybe they thought they had the skills, knowledge and experience, and came up with this method believing everything is fine. If that's the case, it's time to review your business processes.

>

> btw, none of my accounts has been banned, I just don't get why some people defend clearly wrong and autocratic behaviour from companies. Even White Knight No 1 here on these forums stated that he doesn't agree with how Anet conducted this raid, because he's somewhat rational despite his love for the company.

>

>

 

The thing is, no one likes this. No one wants this. But it has become the price we need to pay to have the semblance of a legit game to play. The Company needs to protect it's Property, and it's clients understand that.

 

It would be great if this was just a game and people could log and and play to the best of their abilities and be content with that. But, that is not the case, players feel the need to cheat any game they play, and thus make the game worse for everyone. Now, when people cheat at single player games, no one else is affected, but when they cheat at MMO's, they affect everyone in their game, and the other players realize that the Game Company needs to police their game to keep the cheaters out.

 

Much like bouncers in a bar, do I like some ogre looking at my licence, and a goon squad that keeps looking for trouble while I am just trying to have a drink and enjoy the show? Nope.. but.. the problem is, there are too many people that come into the bar that can't be trusted, that cause problems, and simply don't want to follow the rules, so, yah, that ogre at the door, and the goon squad, is needed to keep the place running smoothly.

 

Just like, anything that gets built to enforce the laws and rules, no one likes the idea of having some security measure shoved down our throat, but they are needed to keep things running correctly. Would be great if a company could trust it's players not to cheat.. yah that would great.. never happen, so we stuck with this invasive BS, but, that is the price we have to pay.

 

If that is not a price you are willing to pay, I can respect that, but understand, in doing that, you have made a choice to play a game that won't take the needed measures to combat cheaters, so, that is your alternative.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

You likely aren't in the field of computer security. Despite the name, Cheat Engine does have legitimate uses -- unless you actually look into it and fully read the about page and FAQ on their website, don't try to make an argument that is based only on the name without also addressing the legitimate uses.