Ohoni.6057 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > Experience. That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > Experience. > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > > > Experience. > > > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. > > You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > > > > > Experience. > > > > > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > > > > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. > > > > You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. Then what's it's difference from a World Boss, say, Tequatl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. > > Then what's it's difference from a World Boss, say, Tequatl? That you can run it with friends in a controlled environment. Also, specific story and rewards, and not needing to worry about being there on specific time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. > > > > Then what's it's difference from a World Boss, say, Tequatl? > That you can run it with friends in a controlled environment. Also, specific story and rewards, and not needing to worry about being there on specific time. > > Not trying to strawman here, but aren't normal Raids right now "controlled environment? I get the specific story part but.. Rewards? You want rewards too? Wow. Well if you want to play with your friends, you will also need to be online at a specific time. Easy mode or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > Experience. > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? That's what I'm saying. It will require more or less the same amount of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. You can do that in t1 fractals or dungeons. No timers, no mechanics, no drama. The difference between 5 and 10 people is non existant if you have raids with no mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. > > You can do that in t1 fractals or dungeons. No timers, no mechanics, no drama. The difference between 5 and 10 people is non existant if you have raids with no mechanics. It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. What do You care about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > What do You care about? I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > What do You care about? > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > What do You care about? > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > > > > > > > Experience. > > > > > > > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > > > > > > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. > > > > > > You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. > > > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. > > Then what's it's difference from a World Boss, say, Tequatl? one is a10 man instance experience, one is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > > > > > Experience. > > > > > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > > > > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. > > > > You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. You may note that I think nothing of the sort. In fact, I've explained on multiple occasions why an easy mode will *not* train people. And here's the thing - the "dynamics" of the 10-man instances are a direct result of the difficulty. Remove that, and you get a world boss. So, just enjoy the same "dynamics" there. Simple, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If it's the post i think about, then it didn't actually say that at all. It merely cautioned against assuming something would be easy. Mind you, that warning would also work for assuming that something would take _a lot_ of work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about this post: > > > > > > > > > > It's about "Hard Mode" not being easy to implement, it could rather easily apply to an "Easy Mode" too, or any kind of new mode in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all agree that hard modes are MUCH harder to implement than easy modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please refrain from speaking on behalf of everyone. I agree to no such thing. The work needed for either is in the same ballpark without major differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? How can you believe that to be true? > > > > > > > > > > > > Experience. > > > > > > > > > > That really doesn't make sense. Can we agree that at least the hard mode would require at least as much work as an easy mode? > > > > > > > > > > so then on top of that, look at what goes into a challenge mote. They sometimes have entirely new mechanics. These would take additional time to design. Further, they need to be tested to be challenging, but not impossible, which is a much finer line to walk than "easier." It's like those Mario Maker levels that try to be nearly impossible, yet still have to be beatable. I'm sure those take a lot longer to craft than just taking a standard level and adding a few safety nets. I just can't imagine that it could possibly take as long to produce a downscaled version of the content than it would take to produce a quality hard mode that is mode than just "up the damage and difficulty." I think that the audience for such a feature would be much less forgiving than an easy mode audience. > > > > > > > > You also cant make easier mode by just reducing HP of the boss. Mechanics would need to get slowed down, which isnt much different from making a new mechanic. You also cant remove existing ones because that wouldn't teach you anything, which ruins the purpose of easy raids. > > > > > > You can simply remove mechanics and lower boss dmg, simple and proven in other games. Raiders still think the purpose of easier mode raids is to 'teach' people to play existing level raids, its not. The majority don't care for that style of raid anymore, e.g raids that require 'training' is a decade out if date. people want to enjoy the dynamics of 10 man instances without the build restrictions/drama/requirement to memorise attack patterns. > > > > Then what's it's difference from a World Boss, say, Tequatl? > > one is a10 man instance experience, one is not. Irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring to lol, thats funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. > > and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. I'll give you a key word: CONTEXT. When I say "noob" here the only thing I mean is "unexperienced". I'm not insulting anyone. I was a noob raider once, too. If I join a pug and someone tells me "you're a noob lol", that person is insulting me. That person is using the word "noob" as a synonym for "bad". Don't generalize something just to make me look bad, it's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > > > > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. > > > > and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. > > I'll give you a key word: CONTEXT. > > When I say "noob" here the only thing I mean is "unexperienced". I'm not insulting anyone. I was a noob raider once, too. > > If I join a pug and someone tells me "you're a noob lol", that person is insulting me. That person is using the word "noob" as a synonym for "bad". > > Don't generalize something just to make me look bad, it's sad. The lady doth protest too much 'but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > > > > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > > > > > > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. > > > > > > and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. > > > > I'll give you a key word: CONTEXT. > > > > When I say "noob" here the only thing I mean is "unexperienced". I'm not insulting anyone. I was a noob raider once, too. > > > > If I join a pug and someone tells me "you're a noob lol", that person is insulting me. That person is using the word "noob" as a synonym for "bad". > > > > Don't generalize something just to make me look bad, it's sad. > > The lady doth protest too much > > 'but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player' Yup. And that's true. But it's not an insult. A noob player is noob so they doesn't know the boss very well, doesn't know their rotation very well, etc etc etc. A lot of them also have incorrect ideas about classes and raids. When I say this, do you really think I'm insulting them? I'm not. It's very clear. Again, don't generalize something just to make me look bad. It's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > > > > > > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > > > > > > > > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. > > > > > > > > and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. > > > > > > I'll give you a key word: CONTEXT. > > > > > > When I say "noob" here the only thing I mean is "unexperienced". I'm not insulting anyone. I was a noob raider once, too. > > > > > > If I join a pug and someone tells me "you're a noob lol", that person is insulting me. That person is using the word "noob" as a synonym for "bad". > > > > > > Don't generalize something just to make me look bad, it's sad. > > > > The lady doth protest too much > > > > 'but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player' > > Yup. And that's true. But it's not an insult. A noob player is noob so they doesn't know the boss very well, doesn't know their rotation very well, etc etc etc. A lot of them also have incorrect ideas about classes and raids. When I say this, do you really think I'm insulting them? I'm not. It's very clear. > > Again, don't generalize something just to make me look bad. It's sad. . Defining 'Noob' https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Noob Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own. It is the latter we will study in this guide so that the reader is prepared to encounter them in the wild if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol I dont want the existing raider loot, what I want is 10 man instances that the majority of players can enjoy without the drama.> @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how a single person knows what people know and what people care about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do You care about? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I quoted wrongly, sorry. I was referring to @"vesica tempestas.1563". What do I care about? I care about people not getting the rewards raiders get for half the effort : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's all very interesting but the debate has never been about the current loot that raiders are so obsessed about 'protecting', its about a style of 10 man instances that casuals can pick up and enjoy in a pug with no drama. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you're making things up, there's no such drama. but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player. there's already ways to not suffer the "pug drama" you're inventing here, if it even exists, and it's called joining a raiding/training guild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go join some pugs and see how often people use words like 'noob' (are they even aware this is being offensive and rude?) btw calling fellow players names is in fact part of the drama I was referring too lol, thats funny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, having 812 LI I have already had enough of pugging. Probably much more than you. And no, they don't usually do that. I think you just had some bad experiences with rude and stupid people and gave up, and now you're taking those experiences like they are a general reality when they're not. > > > > > > > > > > and yet you like to refer to people as noobs, interesting. > > > > > > > > I'll give you a key word: CONTEXT. > > > > > > > > When I say "noob" here the only thing I mean is "unexperienced". I'm not insulting anyone. I was a noob raider once, too. > > > > > > > > If I join a pug and someone tells me "you're a noob lol", that person is insulting me. That person is using the word "noob" as a synonym for "bad". > > > > > > > > Don't generalize something just to make me look bad, it's sad. > > > > > > The lady doth protest too much > > > > > > 'but if you only join noob groups you'll find noob raiders, are noob raiders are the same as any other noob player' > > > > Yup. And that's true. But it's not an insult. A noob player is noob so they doesn't know the boss very well, doesn't know their rotation very well, etc etc etc. A lot of them also have incorrect ideas about classes and raids. When I say this, do you really think I'm insulting them? I'm not. It's very clear. > > > > Again, don't generalize something just to make me look bad. It's sad. > > > . Defining 'Noob' > https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Noob > Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own. It is the latter we will study in this guide so that the reader is prepared to encounter them in the wild if needed. > So you're going to trust more a dictionary than me telling you what I meant when I used the word. Okay. You could say I used the wrong word, but not that I lied when I said I didn't mean noob in a defamatory way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Just don't argue about semantics in such a discussion. We all know you meant "beginner". End of story. If vesica tempestas is still continuing this direction it's clear what his intention is. Hint: It's not an objective debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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