BillC.4521 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > That's simply not how life works. Sorry... You can't expect freebies just because "life's too hard". > > > > > > This isn't life. > > > > > > This is a game. > > > > > > There are no rules other than the ones ANet decides to impose. > > > > Still some of the rules apply. Because if you decide not to impose them, the game ends up boring and/or unfair. And the players end up leaving it. > > That depends on how you design the game. It certainly doesn't apply to the discussion at hand though. > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Of course I'm fine with them having a cool looking skin for doing something I can't, or rather I should say, refuse to learn to do. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > I just don't think they should have *exclusive* access to it. > > > > So I see you're interested in playing semantics, in which case I'll return in kind. No one has exclusive access to envoy armor. You can learn to raid and get it, or you can buy raids and get it. Regular raiders just have an easier path, see? In the future, I'd appreciate if you didn't debate in such an intellectually honest manner. > > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* > > > You have a problem with them getting something you "can't" (in quotes because you can), sure as day, and the evidence is your passionate crusade for raid easy modes. Seriously, is it _that_ hard to let raiders enjoy their **EXCLUSIVE** niche? Your wants, needs, and entitlement are _**that**_ important? > > I don't believe in anyone's right to exclusivity. I think that one person being happy because of what *they have,* automatically overrides the entitlement of anyone else to feel happy about that player *not* having that thing. > > > > Yeah, I _did_ ask you to not answer that question because you would give a dishonest answer, and it turns out you did. > > Nope, 100% honest. Just because you choose not to believe that humans can be decent, doesn't mean that they aren't. > > >You may want to stop assuming everyone's mindset as similar to yours, because it's been demonstrated that some of your beliefs are very bizarre to the average person. > > I would suggest the same to you. People aren't as awful as you assume them to be. > > You are not average. > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > It is really no effort if you think about it carefully tho. Think about the current meta, think about the current build. So if easy mode is nerfed version of normal mode. The probability of healer build can easily carry their teammate and their teammate can just stack and spam 1 and win is higher. > > Just think about no green VG in raid right now where people just sustain and ignore 90% of mechanic by sustain the damage. Then think if that strategy applied to the easy mode of raid. 100% no effort, maybe druid user will be happy tho because they can sell their service to carry their team and let them afk > > So what is your solution? How would you design an easy mode that would prevent this, while making it easier for random pugs of non-meta builds and mismatched gearing to complete it as well as an "on farm" static can today? > > "No change" is no solution. > > >if you check the forum you can see there is thread asking for challenging content from time to time. Pretty sure they wont be happy with easy mode. Just like how some people dont like raid now. > > They don't have to be happy about it. They already have their mode. That mode is for them. This is something else, for the other people. If you enjoy pineapple pizza, and a store offers pineapple pizza, then you have no right to get upset if they also offer pepperoni, because you can still get your pineapple pizza. you know this statement can be used right back at you right. each people have their own mode right now, some people dont like the meta or the story but like raids, some dont like raids but prefer to do the meta and story, some prefer pvp/wvw, so i dont know whats the reason for asking easy mode raid here, if everyone happy right now :) taking pizza as example is like describing each game mode we have right now, the taste/experience wont be the same, but i doubt people from wvw/pvp trying to change things on pve like how pve dont try to change things on wvw/pvp. what you offering about raids here is not introducing new pizza but changing the content on it. like pineapple pizza with less pineapple in it that you can barely see the pineapple, of course people will complain :) > > >And about the rewards, adding access to legend armor on easy mode is just stupid. > > Then what would your solution be for players who want Envoy skins but never want to do raids in their current form? We can't just rest on "they won't get it" or "they have to raid anyway," because neither would make them happy. > > > > many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something i dont mind adding easy mode as training ground/mechanic learning like how t1 is progress you towards t4 in fotm. but the rewards tho, getting same reward as t4 on t1? if you read my post before pretty sure i already mentioned about this. no LI on easy mode they can have other loot/token tho to gearing their character to full asc armor so after they learn properly on easy mode they can move to normal mode. well we all know anet intention is to make fotm as the gate to raid but if you want easy mode as the gate then feel free to do it. or maybe anet can design upgraded version armor just like wvw/pvp armor is but well its gonna take another time and resources again from anet and i prefer if they use them for another content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"BillC.4521" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > That's simply not how life works. Sorry... You can't expect freebies just because "life's too hard". > > > > > > > > This isn't life. > > > > > > > > This is a game. > > > > > > > > There are no rules other than the ones ANet decides to impose. > > > > > > Still some of the rules apply. Because if you decide not to impose them, the game ends up boring and/or unfair. And the players end up leaving it. > > > > That depends on how you design the game. It certainly doesn't apply to the discussion at hand though. > > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Of course I'm fine with them having a cool looking skin for doing something I can't, or rather I should say, refuse to learn to do. > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > I just don't think they should have *exclusive* access to it. > > > > > > So I see you're interested in playing semantics, in which case I'll return in kind. No one has exclusive access to envoy armor. You can learn to raid and get it, or you can buy raids and get it. Regular raiders just have an easier path, see? In the future, I'd appreciate if you didn't debate in such an intellectually honest manner. > > > > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* > > > > > You have a problem with them getting something you "can't" (in quotes because you can), sure as day, and the evidence is your passionate crusade for raid easy modes. Seriously, is it _that_ hard to let raiders enjoy their **EXCLUSIVE** niche? Your wants, needs, and entitlement are _**that**_ important? > > > > I don't believe in anyone's right to exclusivity. I think that one person being happy because of what *they have,* automatically overrides the entitlement of anyone else to feel happy about that player *not* having that thing. > > > > > > > Yeah, I _did_ ask you to not answer that question because you would give a dishonest answer, and it turns out you did. > > > > Nope, 100% honest. Just because you choose not to believe that humans can be decent, doesn't mean that they aren't. > > > > >You may want to stop assuming everyone's mindset as similar to yours, because it's been demonstrated that some of your beliefs are very bizarre to the average person. > > > > I would suggest the same to you. People aren't as awful as you assume them to be. > > > > You are not average. > > > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > > It is really no effort if you think about it carefully tho. Think about the current meta, think about the current build. So if easy mode is nerfed version of normal mode. The probability of healer build can easily carry their teammate and their teammate can just stack and spam 1 and win is higher. > > > Just think about no green VG in raid right now where people just sustain and ignore 90% of mechanic by sustain the damage. Then think if that strategy applied to the easy mode of raid. 100% no effort, maybe druid user will be happy tho because they can sell their service to carry their team and let them afk > > > > So what is your solution? How would you design an easy mode that would prevent this, while making it easier for random pugs of non-meta builds and mismatched gearing to complete it as well as an "on farm" static can today? > > > > "No change" is no solution. > > > > >if you check the forum you can see there is thread asking for challenging content from time to time. Pretty sure they wont be happy with easy mode. Just like how some people dont like raid now. > > > > They don't have to be happy about it. They already have their mode. That mode is for them. This is something else, for the other people. If you enjoy pineapple pizza, and a store offers pineapple pizza, then you have no right to get upset if they also offer pepperoni, because you can still get your pineapple pizza. > > > > >And about the rewards, adding access to legend armor on easy mode is just stupid. > > > > Then what would your solution be for players who want Envoy skins but never want to do raids in their current form? We can't just rest on "they won't get it" or "they have to raid anyway," because neither would make them happy. > > > > > > > > > > many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something > i dont mind adding easy mode as training ground/mechanic learning like how t1 is progress you towards t4 in fotm. but the rewards tho, getting same reward as t4 on t1? if you read my post before pretty sure i already mentioned about this. no LI on easy mode they can have other loot/token tho to gearing their character to full asc armor so after they learn properly on easy mode they can move to normal mode. well we all know anet intention is to make fotm as the gate to raid but if you want easy mode as the gate then feel free to do it. or maybe anet can design upgraded version armor just like wvw/pvp armor is but well its gonna take another time and resources again from anet and i prefer if they use them for another content Pvp Glorious Hero is receiving an FX boost sometime in the future. So it will on par with the Mistforged Triumphant armor. Not sure the cost or if they will have a different set for the winner of the automated tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* You were. You were attempting an extreme form of pedantry with the way you attacked my wording and repeated it right back. Maybe a real lawyer would have some success with that, but you make far too many of your own semantic mistakes in order to succeed It's fine if you want to play that game though. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* You _can_ have it. Just gotta git gud (or get rich). > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I don't believe in anyone's right to exclusivity. Yeah you kinda avoided the question because you would've been forced to answer in a way that made you looked really spoiled. So is it true that Ohoni thinks his desire for a cool looking armor that would make him happy overrides the original vision of it being a reward to those dedicated enough to face up the most challenging content in the game? > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Nope, 100% honest. Just because you choose not to believe that humans can be decent, doesn't mean that they aren't. > I would suggest the same to you. People aren't as awful as you assume them to be. Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful". It's incredibly silly to see you do so; did you grow up in some wonderland where everyone is Mother Theresa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC.4521 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > That's simply not how life works. Sorry... You can't expect freebies just because "life's too hard". > > > > > > > > > > This isn't life. > > > > > > > > > > This is a game. > > > > > > > > > > There are no rules other than the ones ANet decides to impose. > > > > > > > > Still some of the rules apply. Because if you decide not to impose them, the game ends up boring and/or unfair. And the players end up leaving it. > > > > > > That depends on how you design the game. It certainly doesn't apply to the discussion at hand though. > > > > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Of course I'm fine with them having a cool looking skin for doing something I can't, or rather I should say, refuse to learn to do. > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > I just don't think they should have *exclusive* access to it. > > > > > > > > So I see you're interested in playing semantics, in which case I'll return in kind. No one has exclusive access to envoy armor. You can learn to raid and get it, or you can buy raids and get it. Regular raiders just have an easier path, see? In the future, I'd appreciate if you didn't debate in such an intellectually honest manner. > > > > > > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* > > > > > > > You have a problem with them getting something you "can't" (in quotes because you can), sure as day, and the evidence is your passionate crusade for raid easy modes. Seriously, is it _that_ hard to let raiders enjoy their **EXCLUSIVE** niche? Your wants, needs, and entitlement are _**that**_ important? > > > > > > I don't believe in anyone's right to exclusivity. I think that one person being happy because of what *they have,* automatically overrides the entitlement of anyone else to feel happy about that player *not* having that thing. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I _did_ ask you to not answer that question because you would give a dishonest answer, and it turns out you did. > > > > > > Nope, 100% honest. Just because you choose not to believe that humans can be decent, doesn't mean that they aren't. > > > > > > >You may want to stop assuming everyone's mindset as similar to yours, because it's been demonstrated that some of your beliefs are very bizarre to the average person. > > > > > > I would suggest the same to you. People aren't as awful as you assume them to be. > > > > > > You are not average. > > > > > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > > > It is really no effort if you think about it carefully tho. Think about the current meta, think about the current build. So if easy mode is nerfed version of normal mode. The probability of healer build can easily carry their teammate and their teammate can just stack and spam 1 and win is higher. > > > > Just think about no green VG in raid right now where people just sustain and ignore 90% of mechanic by sustain the damage. Then think if that strategy applied to the easy mode of raid. 100% no effort, maybe druid user will be happy tho because they can sell their service to carry their team and let them afk > > > > > > So what is your solution? How would you design an easy mode that would prevent this, while making it easier for random pugs of non-meta builds and mismatched gearing to complete it as well as an "on farm" static can today? > > > > > > "No change" is no solution. > > > > > > >if you check the forum you can see there is thread asking for challenging content from time to time. Pretty sure they wont be happy with easy mode. Just like how some people dont like raid now. > > > > > > They don't have to be happy about it. They already have their mode. That mode is for them. This is something else, for the other people. If you enjoy pineapple pizza, and a store offers pineapple pizza, then you have no right to get upset if they also offer pepperoni, because you can still get your pineapple pizza. > > > > > > >And about the rewards, adding access to legend armor on easy mode is just stupid. > > > > > > Then what would your solution be for players who want Envoy skins but never want to do raids in their current form? We can't just rest on "they won't get it" or "they have to raid anyway," because neither would make them happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something > > i dont mind adding easy mode as training ground/mechanic learning like how t1 is progress you towards t4 in fotm. but the rewards tho, getting same reward as t4 on t1? if you read my post before pretty sure i already mentioned about this. no LI on easy mode they can have other loot/token tho to gearing their character to full asc armor so after they learn properly on easy mode they can move to normal mode. well we all know anet intention is to make fotm as the gate to raid but if you want easy mode as the gate then feel free to do it. or maybe anet can design upgraded version armor just like wvw/pvp armor is but well its gonna take another time and resources again from anet and i prefer if they use them for another content > > Pvp Glorious Hero is receiving an FX boost sometime in the future. So it will on par with the Mistforged Triumphant armor. well i know about that, but the problem here they want the same skin with normal mode, not only upgraded version or normal version. pvp/wvw have their normal or upgraded FX version. if thats they want then easy mode should be enough with normal/upgraded version armor. but i prefer if they just add it to fotm tho, i cant just imagine how easy is easy mode raid gonna be compared to fotm when anet clearly said they want fotm to be the gate to enter raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"BillC.4521" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > That's simply not how life works. Sorry... You can't expect freebies just because "life's too hard". > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't life. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a game. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no rules other than the ones ANet decides to impose. > > > > > > > > > > Still some of the rules apply. Because if you decide not to impose them, the game ends up boring and/or unfair. And the players end up leaving it. > > > > > > > > That depends on how you design the game. It certainly doesn't apply to the discussion at hand though. > > > > > > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > Of course I'm fine with them having a cool looking skin for doing something I can't, or rather I should say, refuse to learn to do. > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > I just don't think they should have *exclusive* access to it. > > > > > > > > > > So I see you're interested in playing semantics, in which case I'll return in kind. No one has exclusive access to envoy armor. You can learn to raid and get it, or you can buy raids and get it. Regular raiders just have an easier path, see? In the future, I'd appreciate if you didn't debate in such an intellectually honest manner. > > > > > > > > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* > > > > > > > > > You have a problem with them getting something you "can't" (in quotes because you can), sure as day, and the evidence is your passionate crusade for raid easy modes. Seriously, is it _that_ hard to let raiders enjoy their **EXCLUSIVE** niche? Your wants, needs, and entitlement are _**that**_ important? > > > > > > > > I don't believe in anyone's right to exclusivity. I think that one person being happy because of what *they have,* automatically overrides the entitlement of anyone else to feel happy about that player *not* having that thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I _did_ ask you to not answer that question because you would give a dishonest answer, and it turns out you did. > > > > > > > > Nope, 100% honest. Just because you choose not to believe that humans can be decent, doesn't mean that they aren't. > > > > > > > > >You may want to stop assuming everyone's mindset as similar to yours, because it's been demonstrated that some of your beliefs are very bizarre to the average person. > > > > > > > > I would suggest the same to you. People aren't as awful as you assume them to be. > > > > > > > > You are not average. > > > > > > > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > > > > It is really no effort if you think about it carefully tho. Think about the current meta, think about the current build. So if easy mode is nerfed version of normal mode. The probability of healer build can easily carry their teammate and their teammate can just stack and spam 1 and win is higher. > > > > > Just think about no green VG in raid right now where people just sustain and ignore 90% of mechanic by sustain the damage. Then think if that strategy applied to the easy mode of raid. 100% no effort, maybe druid user will be happy tho because they can sell their service to carry their team and let them afk > > > > > > > > So what is your solution? How would you design an easy mode that would prevent this, while making it easier for random pugs of non-meta builds and mismatched gearing to complete it as well as an "on farm" static can today? > > > > > > > > "No change" is no solution. > > > > > > > > >if you check the forum you can see there is thread asking for challenging content from time to time. Pretty sure they wont be happy with easy mode. Just like how some people dont like raid now. > > > > > > > > They don't have to be happy about it. They already have their mode. That mode is for them. This is something else, for the other people. If you enjoy pineapple pizza, and a store offers pineapple pizza, then you have no right to get upset if they also offer pepperoni, because you can still get your pineapple pizza. > > > > > > > > >And about the rewards, adding access to legend armor on easy mode is just stupid. > > > > > > > > Then what would your solution be for players who want Envoy skins but never want to do raids in their current form? We can't just rest on "they won't get it" or "they have to raid anyway," because neither would make them happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something > > > i dont mind adding easy mode as training ground/mechanic learning like how t1 is progress you towards t4 in fotm. but the rewards tho, getting same reward as t4 on t1? if you read my post before pretty sure i already mentioned about this. no LI on easy mode they can have other loot/token tho to gearing their character to full asc armor so after they learn properly on easy mode they can move to normal mode. well we all know anet intention is to make fotm as the gate to raid but if you want easy mode as the gate then feel free to do it. or maybe anet can design upgraded version armor just like wvw/pvp armor is but well its gonna take another time and resources again from anet and i prefer if they use them for another content > > > > Pvp Glorious Hero is receiving an FX boost sometime in the future. So it will on par with the Mistforged Triumphant armor. > > well i know about that, but the problem here they want the same skin with normal mode, not only upgraded version or normal version. pvp/wvw have their normal or upgraded FX version. if thats they want then easy mode should be enough with normal/upgraded version armor. but i prefer if they just add it to fotm tho, i cant just imagine how easy is easy mode raid gonna be compared to fotm when anet clearly said they want fotm to be the gate to enter raid Mad doctor made the suggestion of following the same pattern set by WvW giving a time gated stat swappable armor set and then having the Envoy set reserved for raids. With that method you could have the refined armor skin act as a stat swap armor and like Mistforged keep the Envoy as the elite selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > And if Raids aren't the epitome of PvE play, please do enlighten me to what is? There is no "epitome of PvE play." Whatever you enjoy doing most, that is the "epitome of PvE play" *for you,* but it might be something completely different than any other player. The "epitome of PvE play" is whatever you enjoy doing. >you know this statement can be used right back at you right. each people have their own mode right now, some people dont like the meta or the story but like raids, some dont like raids but prefer to do the meta and story, some prefer pvp/wvw, so i dont know whats the reason for asking easy mode raid here, if everyone happy right now :) But everyone isn't happy right now, because people who want to do easy mode raids do not currently have an option to do so. >like pineapple pizza with less pineapple in it that you can barely see the pineapple, of course people will complain :) Only if they are forced to eat that pizza, which would not be the case here. If easy mode is not for you, nobody would ever force you into it. Maybe people who like a lot of pineapple on their pizza would not enjoy a pizza with only a little pineapple. That's fine, they can keep eating their pizza that has a lot of pineapple. But for those that would enjoy a little pineapple, it would be available for them to eat too. >many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something Let me be clear "then they wouldn't get the skin" is not a solution. So what would your *actual* solution be? > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I wasn't "playing semantics," I was making a valid point. I don't have a problem with ANYONE having Envoy armor, I just have a problem with them saying "I earned it this way, therefore *you* cannot possibly get it unless you do the exact same thing." I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me *I can't have.* > > You were. You were attempting an extreme form of pedantry with the way you attacked my wording and repeated it right back. Maybe a real lawyer would have some success with that, but you make far too many of your own semantic mistakes in order to succeed It's fine if you want to play that game though. Ok, what did I get wrong? What did I say that was not entirely accurate? >You can have it. Just gotta git gud (or get rich). And that's not good enough. It's a game, the point is not to "git gud," it's to HAVE FUN. If you have fun *by* "gitting gud" then that's fine, but not everyone is like that. If I were playing to "git gud" I would not be having fun, which would mean *failing* at the game in the worst way possible. "Git gud" is never a solution. >Yeah you kinda avoided the question because you would've been forced to answer in a way that made you looked really spoiled. No, I answered it honestly. If that wasn't the way you'd wanted me to answer it then maybe you should have asked it of a different person who believed what you'd wanted them to believe? >So is it true that Ohoni thinks his desire for a cool looking armor that would make him happy overrides the original vision of it being a reward to those dedicated enough to face up the most challenging content in the game? Obviously. Why do you ask? >Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful". You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right? >It's incredibly silly to see you do so; did you grow up in some wonderland where everyone is Mother Theresa? No, but I don't think we should *reward* evil, we should recognize it and seek to do better, to *be* better. Git **gud.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Ok, what did I get wrong? What did I say that was not entirely accurate? That you don't have access to envoy armor, for example. You do. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > And that's not good enough. It's a game, the point is not to "git gud" Yeah? And you're moving the goalposts. The point in contention I believe was that you were complaining you "can't have" these armors, wasn't it? But in fact you can, you just need to improve your skills. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Obviously. Why do you ask? I think you know why, but I got what I was looking for. Thx for answering. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right? > No, but I don't think we should *reward* evil, we should recognize it and seek to do better, to *be* better. Oh brother, "evil", "sins". _Almost_ can't believe the lengths you'll go to in order to exaggerate perfectly normal human behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: >That you don't have access to envoy armor, for example. You do. Not while having fun, and if you aren't having fun while playing a game, then you're doing something wrong. All I'm asking for is that they add a mode in which it's possible to work toward the armor *and* have fun. >Yeah? And you're moving the goalposts. The point in contention I believe was that you were complaining you "can't have" these armors, wasn't it? But in fact you can, you just need to improve your skills. See the above. >So I can make you look bad. Thx for answering. There's nothing bad about it. I am arguing *against* the idea that some players should have exclusive access to the armor, that it should be available to players of *all* interests and skill levels, so long as they are willing to work towards it in their own capacity. >Oh brother, "evil", "sins". Almost can't believe the lengths you'll go to in order to exaggerate perfectly normal human behavior. *You* were the ones promoting the seven deadly sins! I had nothing to do with that. Just because something is "human nature" doesn't mean that we should be rewarding it. Humans get up to a lot of awful things, you reward the *good* and you *punish* the bad. Git **gud.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Ok, what did I get wrong? What did I say that was not entirely accurate? > > That you don't have access to envoy armor, for example. You do. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > And that's not good enough. It's a game, the point is not to "git gud" > > Yeah? And you're moving the goalposts. The point in contention I believe was that you were complaining you "can't have" these armors, wasn't it? But in fact you can, you just need to improve your skills. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Obviously. Why do you ask? > > I think you know why, but I got what I was looking for. Thx for answering. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right? > > No, but I don't think we should *reward* evil, we should recognize it and seek to do better, to *be* better. > > Oh brother, "evil", "sins". _Almost_ can't believe the lengths you'll go to in order to exaggerate perfectly normal human behavior. > Well pride was the devil’s sin. The first sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Not while having fun Moving the goalposts again are we? Your original quote was this: > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me I can't have But they're not telling you that you can't have it. You just need to git gud (or git $$$$). > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > >So I can make you look bad. Thx for answering. > There's nothing bad about it. I am arguing *against* the idea that some players should have exclusive access to the armor, that it should be available to players of *all* interests and skill levels, so long as they are willing to work towards it in their own capacity. You know all I was looking for was for you to answer "yes" to the question summarized as "is Ohoni's entitlement more important than xxxxxxxx". And I essentially got it, so thanks. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > *You* were the ones promoting the seven deadly sins! Oh yes, they're _so_ deadly and _so_ evil, totally not ordinary human behavior at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Not while having fun > > Moving the goalposts again are we? Your original quote was this: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I don't care what they have, I care what they tell me I can't have > > But they're not telling you that you can't have it. You just need to git gud (or git $$$$). > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > >So I can make you look bad. Thx for answering. > > There's nothing bad about it. I am arguing *against* the idea that some players should have exclusive access to the armor, that it should be available to players of *all* interests and skill levels, so long as they are willing to work towards it in their own capacity. > > You know all I was looking for was for you to answer "yes" to the question summarized as "is Ohoni's entitlement more important than xxxxxxxx". And I essentially got it, so thanks. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > *You* were the ones promoting the seven deadly sins! > > Oh yes, they're _so_ deadly and _so_ evil, totally not ordinary human behavior at all! Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? It doesn't matter, I'm not religious. You can read about the human emotions of pride and envy here though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy As you can see, it's completely normal and expected for people to feel these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: >But they're not telling you that you can't have it. You just need to git gud (or git $$$$). I'm sorry, this thread has gone on for almost thirty pages now and I'm not sure what you have or have not read of it. I've been very clear throughout what I meant. I'm not "shifting" anything. >You know all I was looking for was for you to answer "yes" to the question summarized as "is Ohoni's entitlement more important than xxxxxxxx". And I essentially got it, so thanks. But your entitlement here is far worse, you're saying that not only are you entitled to have the armor for raiding, but that other players are *not* entitled to have it unless they *also* raid. My stance is that *everyone* should be able to have a path to earn the armor, and you are saying that only a very few should have it. It's not *my* entitlement at play here, it's about all the players in the game. >Oh yes, they're so deadly and so evil, totally not ordinary human behavior at all! I'm not sure you understand what the [seven deadly sins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) are. I feel it's unfair to continue pointing this out to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? > > It doesn't matter, I'm not religious. You can read about the human emotions of pride and envy here though. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > > As you can see, it's completely normal and expected for people to feel these. Yeah, I don’t think you read those wiki pages, they don’t paint positive imagery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I'm sorry, this thread has gone on for almost thirty pages now and I'm not sure what you have or have not read of it. I've been very clear throughout what I meant. I'm not "shifting" anything. I'm simply feeding you a dose of your own medicine. You jump down others throats for precise wording, but you make too many the same kinds of mistakes to actually successfully pull that off, not that it's an honest way to debate in the first place. Oh, and calling people out on sort of irrelevant logical fallacies was also something you did, and it's almost poetic irony that you commit that _exact same logical fallacy_ multiple times > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > But your entitlement here is far worse "My entitlement" you say? Has no legendary armor of any kind (nor plans to get them) <- Barely raids <- > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I'm not sure you understand what the [seven deadly sins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) are. I feel it's unfair to continue pointing this out to you. Trust me, I know. I'm just pointing out your incredible reaction to "Envy" and "Pride" of being serious religious transgressions instead of totally normal human emotions. I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not, but in case you were, you can read about these two totally normal human emotions here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Yeah, I don’t think you read those wiki pages, they don’t paint positive imagery... Because envy (at least) isn't a positive emotion. What they are however, are _totally normal_ and _very common_ emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? > > It doesn't matter, I'm not religious. You can read about the human emotions of pride and envy here though. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > > As you can see, it's completely normal and expected for people to feel these. Try these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? > > > > It doesn't matter, I'm not religious. You can read about the human emotions of pride and envy here though. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > > > > As you can see, it's completely normal and expected for people to feel these. > > Try these. > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I'm sorry, this thread has gone on for almost thirty pages now and I'm not sure what you have or have not read of it. I've been very clear throughout what I meant. I'm not "shifting" anything. > > I'm simply feeding you a dose of your own medicine. You jump down others throats for precise wording, but you make too many the same kinds of mistakes to actually successfully pull that off, not that it's an honest way to debate in the first place. Oh, and calling people out on sort of irrelevant logical fallacies was also something you did, and it's almost poetic irony that you commit that _exact same logical fallacy_ multiple times > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > But your entitlement here is far worse > > "My entitlement" you say? > > Has no legendary armor of any kind (nor plans to get them) <- > Barely raids <- > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I'm not sure you understand what the [seven deadly sins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) are. I feel it's unfair to continue pointing this out to you. > > Trust me, I know. I'm just pointing out your incredible reaction to "Envy" and "Pride" of being serious religious transgressions instead of totally normal human emotions. I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not, but in case you were, you can read about these two totally normal human emotions here. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Yeah, I don’t think you read those wiki pages, they don’t paint positive imagery... > > Because envy (at least) isn't a positive emotion. What they are however, are _totally normal_ and _very common_ emotions. Yeah... that’s because of this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > Uhhhh, you do know what the seven deadly sins are right? > > > > > > It doesn't matter, I'm not religious. You can read about the human emotions of pride and envy here though. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy > > > > > > As you can see, it's completely normal and expected for people to feel these. > > > > Try these. > > > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues > > No Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you trying to convert me or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > I'm simply feeding you a dose of your own medicine. You jump down others throats for precise wording, but you make too many the same kinds of mistakes to actually successfully pull that off, not that it's an honest way to debate in the first place. Oh, and calling people out on sort of irrelevant logical fallacies was also something you did, and it's almost poetic irony that you get called out multiple times for that exact same logical fallacy. I believe that *you* believe that you're making a point here, and I don't want to take that away from you, but I'm just not seeing where. >"My entitlement" you say? >Has no legendary armor of any kind (nor plans to get them) <- >Barely raids <- Ok, then what's your horse in this race? Why do you feel the need to try and keep the armor away from those who want it? >Trust me, I know. I'm just pointing out your incredible reaction to "Envy" and "Pride" of being serious religious transgressions instead of totally normal human emotions. Well my point was that the way you framed them, seemed to imply that you considered these to be *good* things, that people should be *rewarded* for. My impression of your comments were "people are envious and prideful, so we should give them *prizes* for it!" If that wasn't your intention then I honestly have no idea what point you were trying to make. >Because envy (at least) isn't a positive emotion. What they are however, are totally normal and very common emotions. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you trying to convert me or something? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I believe that you believe that you're making a point here, and I don't want to take that away from you, but I'm just not seeing where. I originally had one but you insisted on playing word games with me, so I obliged in kind. Now you seem to be upset that the same intellectually dishonest arguments you made can be used against you. The original can be summed up as: you should leave raids alone and focus on self improvement if you want the armor. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Ok, then what's your horse in this race? Why do you feel the need to try and keep the armor away from those who want it? I don't have a horse in this race. I'm debating against you because I feel your argument is absurd. Simple as that. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Well my point was that the way you framed them, seemed to imply that you considered these to be *good* things, that people should be *rewarded* for. No. They're common and normal. That's it. Try telling me you've never felt proud of an accomplishment or envy at someone else for having something you don't (you envy people who have envoy armor apparently). I'll have a good laugh at that. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you trying to convert me or something? > > Maybe. :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: >The original can be summed up as: you should leave raids alone and focus on self improvement if you want the armor. And my response is, this is a game, and I would not enjoy "self-improving" my way to the armor, so that's a lose-lose proposition. Instead, I'm going to focus on convincing ANet to implement a path to the armor that I *could* enjoy. >I don't have a horse in this race. I'm debating against you because I feel your argument is absurd. Simple as that. I hesitate to comment, because the mods tend to remove such posts eventually, but this sounds like you're admitting to trolling. I wouldn't say that I'm entirely shocked by that admission. >No. They're common and normal. That's it. Try telling me you've never felt proud of an accomplishment or envy at someone else for having something you don't (you envy people who have envoy armor apparently). I'll have a good laugh at that. I can say that I've never taken *pride* in my own *envy,* nor would I use those feelings as a defense against providing people with something that they want. I would not say "you cannot have the thing you want, because that other guy takes pride in him having it and you not. Sorry." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > And my response is, this is a game, and I would not enjoy "self-improving" my way to the armor, so that's a lose-lose proposition. Instead, I'm going to focus on convincing ANet to implement a path to the armor that I *could* enjoy. Player skill issues. Sounds like a you problem, not an A-net or community problem. I'm not even opposed to "easy mode" raids necessarily. Look at my posts in the 20 man raid thread. I gave some meaningful ideas for how to implement an easier mode (split into multiple squads, mistakes one squad makes only affects that one squad..) > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I hesitate to comment, because the mods tend to remove such posts eventually, but this sounds like you're admitting to trolling. If the best you can do is to accuse me of trolling after asking for my motivations on why I'm arguing against you, I'm afraid you don't have an argument with much substance. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I can say that I've never taken *pride* in my own *envy,* "Can you say you've never eaten rice or bread?" "I can say I've never eaten rice inside bread." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now