Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > More that I see no value in fighting individuals. I argue against *ideas,* wherever they come from. Just because you don't personally support hard mode, but it's fair to point out that many of those fighting against easy mode do, and they want even *better* rewards for the mode they want to play, like they're some sort of Zinc Saucier or something. I raised that point in response to your accusation that "i'm not good enough so make it easier" should not be considered valid feedback. The person I'm referring to may not be you personally, but he certainly does exist and participates in this thread, which is more than can be said for the "I just want everything for free" guy that everyone keeps referencing. Nice speech, but it's really not that complicated; I didn't make an argument for adding an extra hard mode, so your counterargument is pointless and is a strawman, a very basic logical fallacy you've been accusing others of committing. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > It's not so much scripture as relatively common human philosophical beliefs. Yeah no, try normal and commonly exhibited human emotions. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Personally I was just amused that you chose to list two of them as if they were positive human virtues. Actually it's probably more like you weren't thinking clearly because your first idea was "Oh I know how to get this guy! I'm gonna bring religion into it!". :lol: Also please cite where I listed them as positive human virtues, I'm fairly sure I've been saying they're just **normal and common** emotions. Or are you committing another strawman? You know, that logical fallacy you complained other people were doing to you? > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I went into the details earlier with Feanor, but given the difficulties they had getting raid squads" working right, I do believe that raising the cap to 20 would cause its own technical issues that might take them more time to iron out. On top of that, having twenty people running around in encounters meant for 10, with enemy attacks and player effects that are meant to deal with ten potential targets, yes, I believe these would present hurdles that would make it difficult to implement. The easy mode version I favor would involve relatively modest tweaks to existing designs, and leave the team size and compositions alone, so I do believe that would be easier to implement. **I may be wrong, but only someone with specific inside knowledge of the relevant systems could know for sure.** Unless Arenanet did something _extremely_ unusual with the way they coded raids, it's far easier to just increase the squad cap to 20. It's incredible you'd default to thinking of it being **harder**. I mean, just _what_? > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Again, my "compromise position" was the one I offered at the start. I wasn't here to play games, ask for twice what I wanted so I could haggle it down to half that, I just presented a fair position and expect to walk away with that fair position. "Compromise" is not automatically a virtue. As I said, I'm willing to discuss all sorts of proposals as to *how* we can achieve those goals while keeping everyone as satisfied as possible, but I have never implied that I would be willing to abandon either of those goals, nor is there any reason why I should. They are both good goals that *should* be achieved. No dude, it's simple as day. You laid down two (unreasonable) demands and then refused to budge an inch from them for about 25+ pages of this thread and untold pages of a couple other threads. If anyone suggested anything that wasn't exactly what you demanded at the start, you basically said "I'll keep complaining." > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Yes, and I stand by that assessment. Okay let's just revisit what was just said: > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > >@"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > >@"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > >Has it ever occurred to you that your extreme position is actually making easy mode raids more unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids? > > > Nope > > What were those things you were accusing raiders of? Selfishness? Entitlement? > Yes It's deliciously ironic. To appreciate it requires self awareness, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? Edit: Practice mode is there for players to understand the mechanics so that they can complete the normal raids to gain LI and KP. A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners or others who are looking to be better at the mechanics as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. Edit: As for the practice mode itself: 1. It should only go through the mechanics of the raid and shouldn't reward or penalize players for doing it. 2. The bosses should deal less damage, but have the same mechanics as the raid. 3. Players will now understand which skills and traits to bring for the many different raids in GW2. 4. Experienced raiders also gain benefit from practice mode if they do not know the mechanics of any single raid. A lot of players are comfortable with a couple of raids and not all of them. It will also allow the testing of builds for raids without it being too much of a hassle. 5. Create and LFG for practice mode. 6. Practice mode will cost less gold because players won't have to use consumables to learn the mechanics. Some consumables cost 1g+ for 30 minutes. 7. It will indirectly benefit ArenaNet by creating longevity for the players which in time will increase their sales on their online shop. 8. It will expand the raiding community and decrease the amount of scrutiny between beginners and experienced players. 9. It will also make it so that more DPS classes are accepted because of the experience acquired because your DPS is a lot different in raids than against kittybot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. Experience in a practice mode won't open up any spots for the normal mode. Just take a look at Fractals for why. Expert knowledge of T4 Fractals means absolutely nothing for CMs, expert knowledge of T1/T2/T3 means nothing for T4. And if you even allow LI and KPs to be acquired in this practice mode it would make everything much worse, not better. There is a reason players are asking for LI and KP, so they know the players joining their experienced runs are actually experienced. Experience in a practice mode doesn't make you experienced in the actual mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. > > Experience in a practice mode won't open up any spots for the normal mode. > Just take a look at Fractals for why. Expert knowledge of T4 Fractals means absolutely nothing for CMs, expert knowledge of T1/T2/T3 means nothing for T4. > And if you even allow LI and KPs to be acquired in this practice mode it would make everything much worse, not better. > There is a reason players are asking for LI and KP, so they know the players joining their experienced runs are actually experienced. Experience in a practice mode doesn't make you experienced in the actual mode. Yes, you're right. Experience in practice mode won't make up for real raids, but what it does is allow players to do the real raids by gaining experience in the practice mode. My point was that practice mode allows beginners to start raiding which in time will let them gain actual raiding experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. Yep exactly as you said. It will make players acquire their beginning LI. Since each raid is different, learning the mechanics hands on without any penalty will make it easier for players to gain experience through W1, W2 W3 and etc. You're right though since it will benefit new raiders but it will also benefit experienced raiders to raids which they have never completed yet. Some players are experienced in certain raids and do not know the mechanics of say W5 and what skills are required. Practice mode will let those players know why certain skills and traits are better for those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated > > That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. That would simplify things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated > > That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. Yeah you're right. Practice mode should closely resemble the raids themselves. That way it will prepare players better. Maybe an implementation of buffs would be nice so that it will make it more like a raid scenario, since every raid will require that you bring buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > > > > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated > > > > That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. > > Yeah you're right. Practice mode should closely resemble the raids themselves. That way it will prepare players better. Maybe an implementation of buffs would be nice so that it will make it more like a raid scenario, since every raid will require that you bring buffs. > Mmmmmmmmmmmh I don't know... I mean, a crucial part of learning to raid is learning your rotation. It's extremely important for supports to learn to support properly. If buffs can be applied directly, chronos won't get experience with their own rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keramatzmode.1906 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 And people keep spewing "it will take dev time to do that" then for what reason we buy their expansions and gem store items in the first place? Stop blaming man power all the time, as if you know what is happening at anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"keramatzmode.1906" said: > And people keep spewing "it will take dev time to do that" > > then for what reason we buy their expansions and gem store items in the first place? Stop blaming man power all the time, as if you know what is happening at anet. ???? The dev time is being discussed in terms of quantity, and taking into consideration that giving resources to something means taking away resources from somewhere else. So, implementing an easy mode would probably delay the delivering of new raiding content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Correct, I do not accept raid-buying as a viable path toward obtaining the armor. Don't expect that to change any time soon. > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Yes, because those are my positions. I'm flexible about how to *achieve* those goals, I'm not flexible on the goals themselves. > > > > Pick one > > > > Why? > Ah I see, your not correctly comprehending what I am pointing out. I am not literally telling you to pick one. I am pointing out that you claim to be flexible in your means to achieve a goal, yet you choose to completely ignore a route to your goal which allows you to achieve raid rewards by playing any content you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > b) price we need to pay i guess for having content others can play We're already paying it, you know. Every Living World update comes with a new map others can play and a personal story others can play. Said updates not only come more frequently than raid ones, they also come with much more content. When you throw arguments like this you need to consider all that you already have, not just the tiny part you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > > > So I'd say raids are absolutely puggable and quite casual indeed. Just relax, command your own groups, invite a couple friends if you like. > > > > > > > > > > > > But sounds like effort. Complaining on forums is easier. > > > > > > > > > > Same old raider rhetoric, you fail to understand that the issue is the _style_ of instance the current raiding represents, ALL other AAA mmorpg and raiding communities have accepted this and moved on, they get what is good for the game, not just personal needs by a minority. The majority are not interested in the wipe/learn a pattern/wipe/learn a pattern style of instance. > > > > > > > > And that's fine. The raids are created for those interested. And that's also fine. It's called "diversity". *This* is good for the game. Because it doesn't offer a binary "eiter-or" choice. It gives both groups something to enjoy, as opposed to giving just one of them. And again, what *this* game offers to its casual playerbase is **vastly** superior in quantity. > > > > > > yes thats fine..for raiders, its however diversity for a niche not the majority. Your basically arguing to screw PVE players if they dont raid - well sorry, every other significant gamestyle in GW has legendary armor, so should the majority of PVE players, not just raiders. Imagine they introduced 'legendary++ content that was only available to players who invested thousands of hours in a new housing/crafting meta game - would raiders be happy then, oooh no. > > > > Well they introduces aurora. Not all raiders enjoy open world (like me). They introduced legendary weapons and not every raider enjoy map completion either (like me). You can buy them for gold and you cannot buy legendary armor... Oh wait, you can. Thats what raidselling is for. > > Dear god man, how did ever get through the personal story and map completion? Why did you install the game in the first place? > I enjoyed it for the first time. The only reason why I even got to lvl 80 was because i wanted to do the story. I got herald and i started doing fractals. Then i strated with crafting and abused TP to get few hundered gold, crafted my ascended gear and wen to T4. But at that time herald was too boring for me so i geared my chronomancer and I am playing her ever since. My friends wanted me to start gw2 since launch but i started only when it went free to play so i can try it and after they told me that there are fractals with multiple dificulty tiers and raids. Gw2 has shorter leveling then other mmos but i would stop playing during leveling if there wasnt personal story. I used 16 tomes of knowlage on my first character and all other characters I play were either boisted by 80 booster ot by tomes of knowlage and i used black lion booster during the few lecels i played Truth is i very rarely neet a player in T4 that has lower ap then me and i have yet to meet one in CMs or raids. I guess i dont enjoy parts of the game that give ap as much as other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"keramatzmode.1906" said: > And people keep spewing "it will take dev time to do that" > > then for what reason we buy their expansions and gem store items in the first place? Stop blaming man power all the time, as if you know what is happening at anet. Take a look at this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38248/the-holo-news-krewe#latest In it, Gaile states that something as simple as an in-game news paper has an opportunity cost of newer content. Granted what kind of content wasn't specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > > > > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > > > > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > > > > > > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated > > > > > > That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. > > > > Yeah you're right. Practice mode should closely resemble the raids themselves. That way it will prepare players better. Maybe an implementation of buffs would be nice so that it will make it more like a raid scenario, since every raid will require that you bring buffs. > > > > Mmmmmmmmmmmh I don't know... I mean, a crucial part of learning to raid is learning your rotation. It's extremely important for supports to learn to support properly. If buffs can be applied directly, chronos won't get experience with their own rotation. oh I meant food and utility buff lol, but yeah support and such rally need to know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > > > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > > > > > > > > > But that won't please Ohoni, because Ohoni does not want that. Ohoni wants an easy mode that gives access to the shiny reward, he has no interest in normal mode raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > This practice mode is what I like as a kind of solution to raids accessibility, but I see a problem... how are raiders going to know if someone has experience because they have played practice mode? I mean, practice mode couldn't give LI, so in the eyes of squad commanders they wouldn't have their requirements even if they have experience by playing practice mode. That's what I think that completing the practice mode should give something like a title or a trophy that players can link later. And, still, it won't make it better in LFG -groups will still require a lot of LI. A practice mode will only make it easier to start raiding, but only along new raiders -it will make it easier to get your first LIs, only. > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking something along the lines of a title: novice/adept/master of the blue kitty guardian - survived the kitty guardian for 5/10/15 min with the green mechanics activated, w/o missing a single green, or killed the kitty guardian within 15/10/5 min with the green mechanic on and not miss a single green. Then an additional title for the other mechanics, and novice/adept/master of vale kitty if you do it with all 3 mechanics activated > > > > > > > > That would be a lot of titles, I don't think it could be implemented. I think practice mode should be exactly how VG is, without being able to activate or deactivate certain mechanics. So there could be something like novice/adept/master of the vale guardian. > > > > > > Yeah you're right. Practice mode should closely resemble the raids themselves. That way it will prepare players better. Maybe an implementation of buffs would be nice so that it will make it more like a raid scenario, since every raid will require that you bring buffs. > > > > > > > Mmmmmmmmmmmh I don't know... I mean, a crucial part of learning to raid is learning your rotation. It's extremely important for supports to learn to support properly. If buffs can be applied directly, chronos won't get experience with their own rotation. > > oh I meant food and utility buff lol, but yeah support and such rally need to know what to do. Aaaaah. Now I understand XD Yeah, practice mode shouldn't consume foods. It would be nice to be able to apply them directly from a menu, for free. That should be in the golem, too : / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 There are less then 20 bosses and you can kill all of them in less then 4 hours. I am playing more then 4 hours each week. That means that i kill some bosses multiple times per week because raids are fun and there is nothing else to do. I think if easy raids were added to the game many raiders would do full clear of easy raids after normal full clear just because they have nothing to do and easy raids are free (for them) rewards but it is not mindless. Thats why i loved f40 farm, it was great for gold but your income was incresed if you mastered it and diference between 2 minutes runs and 3 minute runs was enormous. I predict that easy raids lfg would be filled with farm groups that would be much more toxic then normal raids because they would care only about the speed since it is not a raid but farm to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > There are less then 20 bosses and you can kill all of them in less then 4 hours. I am playing more then 4 hours each week. That means that i kill some bosses multiple times per week because raids are fun and there is nothing else to do. > I think if easy raids were added to the game many raiders would do full clear of easy raids after normal full clear just because they have nothing to do and easy raids are free (for them) rewards but it is not mindless. Thats why i loved f40 farm, it was great for gold but your income was incresed if you mastered it and diference between 2 minutes runs and 3 minute runs was enormous. > I predict that easy raids lfg would be filled with farm hroups that would be much more toxic then normal raids because they would care only qbout tbe speed since it is not a raid but farm to them. Yup, that's pretty much what I fear would happen, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: >Nice speech, but it's really not that complicated; I didn't make an argument for adding an extra hard mode, so your counterargument is pointless and is a strawman, a very basic logical fallacy you've been accusing others of committing. Only if we are engaged in a one-on-one conversation, which I, at least, am not. It's like you're upset that I went after the healer rather than obeying your taunt. >Yeah no, try normal and commonly exhibited human emotions. Normal and commonly exhibited *negative* human emotions that are normally and commonly criticized rather than praised. I never said they weren't human, just that they weren't *good.* >Actually it's probably more like you weren't thinking clearly because your first idea was "Oh I know how to get this guy! I'm gonna bring religion into it!". Honestly, when I think "the seven deadly sins," I tend to go manga before Bible. Seriously, have you not heard of these before this thread? They're a pretty common trope. Even GW2 dips into a few of them. > Also please cite where I listed them as positive human virtues, I'm fairly sure I've been saying they're just normal and common emotions. You were citing them as reasons why an easy mode should not exist, "because the current system rewards envy and pride, and should continue to do so unmolested." I'm sorry if that was paraphrased inaccurately, but that was my interpretation of your point. If I misjudged it then please clarify. >Unless Arenanet did something extremely unusual with the way they coded raids, it's far easier to just increase the squad cap to 20. It's incredible you'd default to thinking of it being harder. I mean, just what? Again, they seemed to struggle with lowering the cap from 50 to 10, so maybe it isn't as simple as it seems. Sometimes very "common sense" changes can be very complicated, based on how they were coded. I'm just saying, it's no slam dunk. And again, just because they do raise the squad cap to 20 doesn't mean that the content will automatically adjust to those numbers without some specific corrections. >No dude, it's simple as day. You laid down two (unreasonable) demands and then refused to budge an inch from them for about 25+ pages of this thread and untold pages of a couple other threads. I believe they're perfectly reasonable, and am willing to explain why to anyone that asks, which is what makes up the bulk of these 25 pages. And yes, I don't budge on them because they are perfectly reasonable, and I did not propose them intending to settle in the middle, I proposed them as reasonable endpoints. If I'd intended to settle in the middle it would have started with something like "The easy mode should take half the time to clear as normal mode and offer twice the rewards, and also on top of Envoy armor a second set of Legendary that can *only* be earned in easy mode, and that people who's cleared hard mode aren't allowed to get, and. . ." and then eventually I'd get "worn down" to *just* "I want an easy mode that takes longer to complete than normal mode and provides a considerably slower path towards Envoy armor than the existing raids does," and I would be hailed as a hero for being *sooooo* open to compromise, which is, obviously, the most important thing here, but not, I decided to cut to the chase and *start* with the right end point. It's not my fault people kept arguing over it anyway, they could have just said "yeah, that seems fair." > Okay let's just revisit what was just said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > >@"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > >@"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > >Has it ever occurred to you that your extreme position is actually making easy mode raids more unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids? > > > > Nope > > > What were those things you were accusing raiders of? Selfishness? Entitlement? > > Yes > > It's deliciously ironic. To appreciate it requires self awareness, though. And I stand by that exchange, *except* that you cut out some vital portions to it. Where you have me saying "nope," I went on to point out, *"because I have no veto power in what happens. If ANet wants to implement an easy mode that would be completely against everything I've said, then they will do so. I can't stop them, and wouldn't really want to, but whether they did that or not, I would continue to argue for them to improve it."* If ANet decides to make an easy mode that satisfies some other players but doesn't satisfy everyone else, there's nothing I could do about that. I'm not "standing in the way" of anything because I wield no power to prevent ANet doing anything. IF that's what they want to do, then it will happen. If it's not, then it won't happen. They don't have to get me to "sign off" on whatever it is they end up doing. I still believe that an easy mode with a path to Envoy armor would be the best overall outcome, but if that's not the one they go with, it has nothing to do with me. So no, I am NOT "making easy mode raids more unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > > And yes, I don't budge on them because they are perfectly reasonable, and I did not propose them intending to settle in the middle, I proposed them as reasonable endpoints. If I'd intended to settle in the middle it would have started with something like "The easy mode should take half the time to clear as normal mode and offer twice the rewards, and also on top of Envoy armor a second set of Legendary that can *only* be earned in easy mode, and that people who's cleared hard mode aren't allowed to get, and. . ." and then eventually I'd get "worn down" to *just* "I want an easy mode that takes longer to complete than normal mode and provides a considerably slower path towards Envoy armor than the existing raids does," and I would be hailed as a hero for being *sooooo* open to compromise, which is, obviously, the most important thing here, but not, I decided to cut to the chase and *start* with the right end point. It's not my fault people kept arguing over it anyway, they could have just said "yeah, that seems fair." > If you started with that there would be no disscusion because your opposition (the raiders that particupate in this forum) are players that like to use their brain during playing. And everyone with a brain can see that this is so crazy idea that the wouldnt fight back. No point giving a picture to a blind man. Edit: Btw then my resonable idea is to incresse gold income in raids. I am sure it wilk help brig new players to raids. Since you dont care about reasons why raiders are against your resonable ideas I do t have to care about yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > Edit: Practice mode is there for players to understand the mechanics so that they can complete the normal raids to gain LI and KP. > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners or others who are looking to be better at the mechanics as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > Edit: As for the practice mode itself: > > 1. It should only go through the mechanics of the raid and shouldn't reward or penalize players for doing it. > 2. The bosses should deal less damage, but have the same mechanics as the raid. > 3. Players will now understand which skills and traits to bring for the many different raids in GW2. > 4. Experienced raiders also gain benefit from practice mode if they do not know the mechanics of any single raid. A lot of players are comfortable with a couple of raids and not all of them. It will also allow the testing of builds for raids without it being too much of a hassle. > 5. Create and LFG for practice mode. > 6. Practice mode will cost less gold because players won't have to use consumables to learn the mechanics. Some consumables cost 1g+ for 30 minutes. > 7. It will indirectly benefit ArenaNet by creating longevity for the players which in time will increase their sales on their online shop. > 8. It will expand the raiding community and decrease the amount of scrutiny between beginners and experienced players. > 9. It will also make it so that more DPS classes are accepted because of the experience acquired because your DPS is a lot different in raids than against kittybot. Ok, that basically describes the easy mode we've been discussing, with the exception being that while I want it to be *usable* for practice as you describe it, I also want it to be a self-supporting game mode of its own, with rewards and everything. It would offer less rewards than normal raids, roughly 1/3 as much, but would allow players to progress *without* having to ever step foot in the actual raids. I feel that there is a value in a training mode, but that without rewards it will likely get underused, as players will quickly either move on to the actually rewarding mode, or they will give up entirely. > @"thrag.9740" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Correct, I do not accept raid-buying as a viable path toward obtaining the armor. Don't expect that to change any time soon. > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Yes, because those are my positions. I'm flexible about how to *achieve* those goals, I'm not flexible on the goals themselves. > > > > > > Pick one > > > > > > > Why? > > > Ah I see, your not correctly comprehending what I am pointing out. I am not literally telling you to pick one. I am pointing out that you claim to be flexible in your means to achieve a goal, yet you choose to completely ignore a route to your goal which allows you to achieve raid rewards by playing any content you want. Are you talking cheating? No, I will not cheat to achieve the goal. It has to be a path to earn the rewards through direct gameplay, not paying someone else to play for me. "Flexible" doesn't mean throwing principles completely out the window. > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > I predict that easy raids lfg would be filled with farm groups that would be much more toxic then normal raids because they would care only about the speed since it is not a raid but farm to them. Possibly true, but like back when Dungeons had the "zerk warrior meta," there was still no issue finding non-meta groups. The "hardcorz speed farming" groups may exist, but they don't want lowbie newbs on their team anyway, so they would obviously want to advertise their group in a way that discourages those players from trying to join. If a "casual easy mode" player is looking for a group to join, it shouldn't be that hard to see which is which, and even though mistakes will be made, it's still better than no option at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said: > > > > I understand your concerns and I think that one idea will appeal to all of us. Implement practice mode for Raids. As it is now, there is no way to prepare as a beginner for a Raid other than the Raid itself. Don't make the Raid easier. Right now the problem is that people cannot find groups because they do not know how to raid. A practice mode fixes all of that. It would be very helpful to upcoming players if they went through the actions of the Raid in a practice mode. It will benefit the game a lot and get more people into Raiding. > > > > > > What would your "practice mode" offer that the current raids do not? How would it be better? > > > > Edit: Practice mode is there for players to understand the mechanics so that they can complete the normal raids to gain LI and KP. > > > > A practice mode would just act as a dumb down guide for players who have never done the raid. Most groups now require experience and a lot of it. As a beginner, you will never be able to begin a raid or find a group. What practice mode offers is that it will let players be able to go through the actions of the raid with other beginners or others who are looking to be better at the mechanics as well. Most people are hesitant to find a group because they are afraid of being a liability to the group. Most groups will kick players who do not have any LI and KP. Practice mode allows players who do not have LI and KP to band together to acquire experience. It will also let players know that Raiding isn't as difficult as others make it seem. The difficult part is gaining the LI and KP to find groups. Practice mode will expand the raiding community and make it less of a hassle to create groups or find players by making the raiding community larger. > > > > Edit: As for the practice mode itself: > > > > 1. It should only go through the mechanics of the raid and shouldn't reward or penalize players for doing it. > > 2. The bosses should deal less damage, but have the same mechanics as the raid. > > 3. Players will now understand which skills and traits to bring for the many different raids in GW2. > > 4. Experienced raiders also gain benefit from practice mode if they do not know the mechanics of any single raid. A lot of players are comfortable with a couple of raids and not all of them. It will also allow the testing of builds for raids without it being too much of a hassle. > > 5. Create and LFG for practice mode. > > 6. Practice mode will cost less gold because players won't have to use consumables to learn the mechanics. Some consumables cost 1g+ for 30 minutes. > > 7. It will indirectly benefit ArenaNet by creating longevity for the players which in time will increase their sales on their online shop. > > 8. It will expand the raiding community and decrease the amount of scrutiny between beginners and experienced players. > > 9. It will also make it so that more DPS classes are accepted because of the experience acquired because your DPS is a lot different in raids than against kittybot. > > Ok, that basically describes the easy mode we've been discussing, with the exception being that while I want it to be *usable* for practice as you describe it, I also want it to be a self-supporting game mode of its own, with rewards and everything. It would offer less rewards than normal raids, roughly 1/3 as much, but would allow players to progress *without* having to ever step foot in the actual raids. I feel that there is a value in a training mode, but that without rewards it will likely get underused, as players will quickly either move on to the actually rewarding mode, or they will give up entirely. > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Correct, I do not accept raid-buying as a viable path toward obtaining the armor. Don't expect that to change any time soon. > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Yes, because those are my positions. I'm flexible about how to *achieve* those goals, I'm not flexible on the goals themselves. > > > > > > > > Pick one > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > Ah I see, your not correctly comprehending what I am pointing out. I am not literally telling you to pick one. I am pointing out that you claim to be flexible in your means to achieve a goal, yet you choose to completely ignore a route to your goal which allows you to achieve raid rewards by playing any content you want. > > Are you talking cheating? No, I will not cheat to achieve the goal. It has to be a path to earn the rewards through direct gameplay, not paying someone else to play for me. "Flexible" doesn't mean throwing principles completely out the window. > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > I predict that easy raids lfg would be filled with farm groups that would be much more toxic then normal raids because they would care only about the speed since it is not a raid but farm to them. > > Possibly true, but like back when Dungeons had the "zerk warrior meta," there was still no issue finding non-meta groups. The "hardcorz speed farming" groups may exist, but they don't want lowbie newbs on their team anyway, so they would obviously want to advertise their group in a way that discourages those players from trying to join. If a "casual easy mode" player is looking for a group to join, it shouldn't be that hard to see which is which, and even though mistakes will be made, it's still better than no option at all. > > > > How is that cheating? Is it cheating if someone buy materials from TP? Is it cheating if someone pay someone to open specific boss? Is it cheating if someone is giben gold for opening his/her home instance to another? From my point it is all the same thing. You pay gold to player for something they did. Its less cheating then buying gems for real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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