Feanor.2358 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > I recall someone epi-bouncing VG and Sabetha as well. So please don't spread misinformation. > > > > > > You brought up ERP as the subject and can't handle the video proof, so you have to label it misinformation. Interesting tactic but the proof is right there for you to enjoy. > > > So tell us more about how Epidemic is OP when its only used by the top tier in select fights and Ele is used liberally everywhere else. > > > > [Come again]( "Come again")? > > > > Three-necro setup on VG (0 eles) and 4-necro setup on Sabetha (0 eles). How about that for a proof? > > Oh look with your video 3/7 bosses used necro. Clearly OP. Has less than 50% presence in raids. > Meanwhile also with your video ele has 4/7 usage. Over 50% presence. > > Tell me which is the problem child again ? So Meteor Shower got crippled and the "problem child" lost 8k. Epi, which already *could* perform better, remained untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > So Meteor Shower got crippled and the "problem child" lost 8k. Epi, which already *could* perform better, remained untouched. As it should be. There's no problem with Epi in it's current state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > So Meteor Shower got crippled and the "problem child" lost 8k. Epi, which already *could* perform better, remained untouched. > > As it should be. There's no problem with Epi in it's current state. > There is a problem with epi in it's current state seeing that one skill can literally destroy raids, atleast Eles have to do something to get the dps it gets.. Anet have been buffing the support for Necro/Scourge It's time they nerf Epi buff some core skills on Necro although this is anet and they will buff Reaper or Scourge traits making expansions more of a must Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > There is a problem with epi in it's current state seeing that one skill can literally destroy raids, atleast Eles have to do something to get the dps it gets.. Anet have been buffing the support for Necro/Scourge It's time they nerf Epi buff some core skills on Necro although this is anet and they will buff Reaper or Scourge traits making expansions more of a must Oh boy here we go equating ease of play to DPS output. Ele players really think this is a justification for their superiority and it's disgusting. Ironically, calling for them to buff core necro skills when Epi is a core necro skill. People be doing some real double talk here. Scourge shouldn't be nerfed it should be reworked into the support it was meant to be there's a clear difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > > > > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. > > Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful > > Come on, don't be polemic please. You know exactly what I mean. The problem isn't perma-quickness and -alacrity, it's also everything else like overpowered CC, a lot of powerful utilities and weapon-skill, the boon-spam through Chaos, optimal tank and optimal support in one, etc. Chrono is simply too good at too many things and that's bad game-design since you have no alternative, thus two chronos will always be mandatory. The Scourge-"problem" is peanuts in comparison. Then again I was serious about it. Removing quickness and alacrity would be the easiest fix for the absurdly high dps potential players have in this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I have mixed feelings about Epidemic but I do wonder if many of the posters on this thread have a lot of experience actually using it. Epidemic is in no way comparable to Meteor Shower. Epi just works too differently and is highly situational. Ele's staff would have to have a bunch of goofy requirements that no one would want to even come close to Epi's range of utterly useless situations and failures to proc much, if any, damage. Epidemic could be reworked, again, and I would not mind, if Necro was sufficiently buffed to prevent it from being excluded once more, but comparing an oddball, zero-to-hero utility that requires profession-stacking to a premier weapon skill is misleading. Eliminating Epi is entirely possible but its elimination could well eliminate Necro, Reaper, and Scourge from PvE end-game content. Necro mains are legitimately worried, being accustomed to having lots of unwanted combo fields, almost no finishers, not much of a dps rotation, a ton of conditions that anything with Defiant is immune to, no full immunity skills, very low mobility, a defensive mechanic that requires active and constant charging, and Scourge barriers as the only significant group buff. Take away Epidemic and current Necro is much less appealing but Nerfing Meteor Shower does not delete Ele and its elites from end-game PvE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > There is a problem with epi in it's current state seeing that one skill can literally destroy raids, atleast Eles have to do something to get the dps it gets.. Anet have been buffing the support for Necro/Scourge It's time they nerf Epi buff some core skills on Necro although this is anet and they will buff Reaper or Scourge traits making expansions more of a must > > Oh boy here we go equating ease of play to DPS output. Ele players really think this is a justification for their superiority and it's disgusting. > Well, it's true lol no class should do so much dps with 1 skill > Ironically, calling for them to buff core necro skills when Epi is a core necro skill. People be doing some real double talk here. > > Scourge shouldn't be nerfed it should be reworked into the support it was meant to be there's a clear difference. > Scourge itself shoudn't be nerfed.. no one was calling for it, however Epidemic should be nerfed. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > > > > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > > > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > > > > > > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. > > > Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful > > > > Come on, don't be polemic please. You know exactly what I mean. The problem isn't perma-quickness and -alacrity, it's also everything else like overpowered CC, a lot of powerful utilities and weapon-skill, the boon-spam through Chaos, optimal tank and optimal support in one, etc. Chrono is simply too good at too many things and that's bad game-design since you have no alternative, thus two chronos will always be mandatory. The Scourge-"problem" is peanuts in comparison. > > Then again I was serious about it. Removing quickness and alacrity would be the easiest fix for the absurdly high dps potential players have in this game The abundance of boons was intended by the developers and was deemed necessary by them to beat raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > > > > > > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > > > > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > > > > > > > > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. > > > > Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful > > > > > > Come on, don't be polemic please. You know exactly what I mean. The problem isn't perma-quickness and -alacrity, it's also everything else like overpowered CC, a lot of powerful utilities and weapon-skill, the boon-spam through Chaos, optimal tank and optimal support in one, etc. Chrono is simply too good at too many things and that's bad game-design since you have no alternative, thus two chronos will always be mandatory. The Scourge-"problem" is peanuts in comparison. > > > > Then again I was serious about it. Removing quickness and alacrity would be the easiest fix for the absurdly high dps potential players have in this game > > The abundance of boons was intended by the developers and was deemed necessary by them to beat raids. We all know that their play testers are terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > > > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > > > > > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. > > > > > Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful > > > > > > > > Come on, don't be polemic please. You know exactly what I mean. The problem isn't perma-quickness and -alacrity, it's also everything else like overpowered CC, a lot of powerful utilities and weapon-skill, the boon-spam through Chaos, optimal tank and optimal support in one, etc. Chrono is simply too good at too many things and that's bad game-design since you have no alternative, thus two chronos will always be mandatory. The Scourge-"problem" is peanuts in comparison. > > > > > > Then again I was serious about it. Removing quickness and alacrity would be the easiest fix for the absurdly high dps potential players have in this game > > > > The abundance of boons was intended by the developers and was deemed necessary by them to beat raids. > We all know that their play testers are terrible Maybe. But then: Don't you think removing the boon-abundance, thus lowering outgoing damage while also increasing incoming damage would make instanced PvE content even more niche than it already is? That's no solution either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > Well, it's true lol no class should do so much dps with 1 skill Tell us how that boss got all those conditions on it without other skills being used. I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > Well, it's true lol no class should do so much dps with 1 skill > Tell us how that boss got all those conditions on it without other skills being used. > I'll wait. > Of course there is a rotation, mainly spamming your auto, but 1 skill makes you double that dps and it's insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > Well, it's true lol no class should do so much dps with 1 skill > > Tell us how that boss got all those conditions on it without other skills being used. > > I'll wait. > > > > Of course there is a rotation, mainly spamming your auto, but 1 skill makes you double that dps and it's insane you know how horrible a dps scepter 1 spam on necro is? btw that won't double the dps of the other necro who's just there pressing epi since 2x0=0. At best their dps would be equal to, if not slightly less than the 1 necro spamming scepter 1, and the 1 necro spamming 1 won't even get a dps boost, unless you're counting cleave damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > > Well, it's true lol no class should do so much dps with 1 skill > > > Tell us how that boss got all those conditions on it without other skills being used. > > > I'll wait. > > > > > > > Of course there is a rotation, mainly spamming your auto, but 1 skill makes you double that dps and it's insane > > you know how horrible a dps scepter 1 spam on necro is? btw that won't double the dps of the other necro who's just there pressing epi since 2x0=0. At best their dps would be equal to, if not slightly less than the 1 necro spamming scepter 1, and the 1 necro spamming 1 won't even get a dps boost, unless you're counting cleave damage. I wasn't mentioning that scepter 1 was strong at all, just stacking the bleeds from that, that's why you see stacked scourges in raids, to use epi, spam all the conditions and epi bounce, its pretty straight forward and someone who has never played necro before can do it without a problem and do solid dps, if anything Epi should only be used to clear ads imo, it's just a cheesy mechanic that shoudn't be part of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 doubtful, considering a mistimed epi will result in 0 condis being transfered. A noob necro is very unlikely to be able to properly time epi without voice coms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > doubtful, considering a mistimed epi will result in 0 condis being transfered. A noob necro is very unlikely to be able to properly time epi without voice coms. Target the add, look below its hp bar, press Epi. Much hard, so effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 add died mid epi, epi transfers nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > add died mid epi, epi transfers nothing Yeah, it will happen from time to time. Doesn't change the *fact* it is enough to kill Dhuum CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 and 6 eles is fast enough to kill kc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Sure, a golem boss is exactly the same as the hardest CM in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 depends on how often you've done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 No, it doesn't. One is part of a normal weekly clear, the other is the current ultimate PvE challenge in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 so the latter boss is a rarer occurrence than the former? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 how come, if the latter is as rare as you claim, how often is scrourge even being stacked compared to ele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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