Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > Why not make bosses and adds capable of reflecting projectiles and switch aggro to the highest dps or outgoing heals?

>

> I can only imagine weavers killing themselves with their own fireballs if bosses used reflections. About aggro, this game has no consistent aggro mechanic and it varies between bosses. If you made aggro based on dps game wide you would break raid encounters, especially those where boss positioning is important.

 

It is the bosses (Defiance) that nerf many of the mechanics used in PvP like blind, chill, weakness, poison's heal reduction, etc. Give bosses blocks, reflects, projectile blocking, dodge-rolls, better aggro formulas, and retaliation, ability to read tells for big skills and so on. Then reduce their health and defense.

 

It would wreck fixed rotations and require players to coordinate much more than today. Perhaps an Ele would have to call out a Meteor Shower to lure a boss into using a big defensive skill so 2 Necro's can get an Epi bounce while a Chrono-Mes uses a shield, or vice versa.

 

The biggest problem I see with PvE end game is the horrible AI that favors boon generation, rotations, and gated, linear event mechanics. Once a team has the dps potential, the rest is memorizing the instance's procedure.

 

Boss AI in GW2 is stuck in the 1990s.

[Moogri.1935]

Have you guys even tried epi bouncing? It's not just as simple as pressing one button. Timing is key. Sometimes the adds die too fast or they're too far that the projectile takes too long to travel.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

>

> Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

 

Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> >

> > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

>

> Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

 

It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

[HardRider.2980]

Sure, But nerf the other professions so they dont do tons of tons of dps with low effort as well.. because.. yes they do..

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > >

> > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> >

> > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

>

> It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

 

It's doable. Dhuum focus on mechanics .. theres plenty of time left before 10%. And low men can manage after 10% too .. so it's not dps issue in dhuum. We only hv one or two weavers... Ppl roll whatever they like ..

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

 

You were also apparently too lazy to do some proper research into this, as in no case will a mediocre Necro player outperform a good weaver. Much like how the boss DPS of a good weaver will be better than a bad one at KC as a result of not just auto attacking KC outside of major burn phases, there is more to a good Necro player than just their Epidemic button. In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic. Necro can also bring boon corrupt to deal with the Soul Suck's boon stealing mechanic, Flesh Wurm to protect the primary Reaper from deathling aggro, can sustainably kite the messengers on a near-full damage build thanks to barrier application mitigating the affliction mechanic, all while bring good amounts of CC to account for players being picked up by the echo.

 

If you actually break down exactly why Necro shines in that fight you can see that it isn't just because it can spam Epi and mitigate the difficulty of the encounter, it's because it has a multitude of tools that can be used that work well in said encounter. This is also true for a fight like VG (which coincidentally does not become "Invulnerable" but untargettable, much like Dhuum does during the final 10% of his fight) where once again there is more to the story than just the raw damage from Epidemic bouncing. Scourge brings barrier application to the table which allows the group to stay in the middle and focus on dealing damage instead of running out to circles (which is a fairly major part of the dps increase for Scourge), it brings boon corruption to ensure the blue guardian never remains immune to damage for too long, plenty of cripples that can be placed on the seekers to reduce their pressure by cutting their movement speed, and once again plenty of CC to deal with the breakbars of the fight. All of these benefits of Scourge contribute to why the world record kill for VG comprised of Scourges, because the tools Necro offers work extremely well for that fight.

 

Even in these cases where Necromancer "fits the bill" extremely well it is by no means a fire and forget skill. Beyond making sure communication between group members is on point to ensure the full Epi-bounce is completed while the secondary target is in range/alive, each fight has some kind of sub-logic for ensuring Epidemic bouncing works. At VG you need to avoid performing an Epi-bounce as the seekers "cycle" to ensure your Epidemic conditions aren't lost, at Dhuum you have to be focusing on the location of Messengers and the Echo to be able to perform the Epi-bounce while they are in range (with the benefit of making it more likely for the group to be aware of the location of the echo at all times to reduce the possibility of being grabbed), and even at fights like Soulless Horror, Gorseval, Sabetha, etc you can only perform the bounce once an enemy has spawned; these are all situations where you need to not just have an understanding of the fight but also have an understanding of the team strategy. If you went to Mursaat Overseer you'd need to know how the fixated player is going to be moving around so you can plan your Epidemics accordingly.

 

Furthermore, Epi-bouncing works at all but 2 encounters in raids (1 if you count running no burning for Matthias and bouncing off of the icy patches), and yet World Record kills aren't all comprised of Necromancers. It's almost like some fights favor Necro, and heck even favor Epi-bouncing more than others; and even putting aside the reasons WHY those fights favor a Necro composition just flat-out demanding a nerf for it without understanding why it's effective is not a good practice by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic.

 

That is reason.. dhuum cm selling like too easy. My friend was making 20k g in a day. Thank you to necro epi. This title become useless

[SidewayS.3789]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic.

>

> That is reason.. dhuum cm selling like too easy. My friend was making 20k g in a day. Thank you to necro epi. This title become useless

 

And in the mean times, we are doing fractals so we can sell 99 T4 Fractal. LOL.

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic.

>

> That is reason.. dhuum cm selling like too easy. My friend was making 20k g in a day. Thank you to necro epi. This title become useless

 

I'm sorry, but your implication here is that Epidemic is some kind of replacement for player skill. A bad player using Epidemic will still do badly regardless; they'll still fail to separate for the shackle mechanic, not drop the affliction mechanic properly, be unable to properly do the greens, etc. Raw damage might help with low-manning, but it is not a substitution for player skill, and certainly not something that would make Dhuum CM "easy".

 

Additionally, your own words:

 

>It's doable. Dhuum focus on mechanics .. theres plenty of time left before 10%. And low men can manage after 10% too .. so it's not dps issue in dhuum. We only hv one or two weavers... Ppl roll whatever they like ..

 

Why is it then that if you're utilizing Epidemic Dhuum CM is suddenly too easy when, according to you, you can still complete the final 10% when you're low-manning? The answer is entirely as you said, Dhuum is a fight where mechanics are key, and Scourge works so well for Dhuum CM because it has tools to mitigate the pressure of the vast majority of them. Epi-bouncing is a nice bonus on top of that (and additionally is itself a tools for helping to deal with the Deathlings/Enforcer (the one that is up when Dhuum steps off of the throne).

[Talindra.4958]

> @"SidewayS.3789" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic.

> >

> > That is reason.. dhuum cm selling like too easy. My friend was making 20k g in a day. Thank you to necro epi. This title become useless

>

> And in the mean times, we are doing fractals so we can sell 99 T4 Fractal. LOL.

 

Hehe.. well 100cm for Simon and LNHB tittle are quite good selling atm ?

oh sideways, i just realized who u are lol sorry i am slow to pick up - yeh 99t4 if there are buyers LOL keep dreaming

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > >

> > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> >

> > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

>

> It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

 

It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > >

> > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > >

> > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> >

> > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

>

> It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

 

Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > >

> > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > >

> > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> >

> > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

>

> Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

 

I think anet is balancing raids around pugs for a long time, most bosses die in half or less the enrage timer so it must be balanced for low dps pugs

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > >

> > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > >

> > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> >

> > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

>

> Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

 

Sorry, but there is not one real DPS Check in this game. Raids are definitely balanced for Pugs in terms of DPS.

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > > >

> > > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> > >

> > > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

> >

> > Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

>

> Sorry, but there is not one real DPS Check in this game. Raids are definitely balanced for Pugs in terms of DPS.

 

lol your account name says it all

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > > >

> > > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> > >

> > > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

> >

> > Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

>

> I think anet is balancing raids around pugs for a long time, most bosses die in half or less the enrage timer so it must be balanced for low dps pugs

 

That's not really a problem with raid balancing, because raids didn't change much since release. Balance team introduced to much power creep with new specs causing dps potential to rise (again). So raids that were released in HoT are now easier than newest wing. They should nerf dps across the board at least 20-30%, nerf Dhuum if needed and keep both power creep and raids at the same level of difficulty.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > > > >

> > > > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> > > >

> > > > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

> > >

> > > Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

> >

> > I think anet is balancing raids around pugs for a long time, most bosses die in half or less the enrage timer so it must be balanced for low dps pugs

>

> That's not really a problem with raid balancing, because raids didn't change much since release. Balance team introduced to much power creep with new specs causing dps potential to rise (again). So raids that were released in HoT are now easier than newest wing. They should nerf dps across the board at least 20-30%, nerf Dhuum if needed and keep both power creep and raids at the same level of difficulty.

 

Yeah, no. They'll nerf the dps across the board when the next expansion is upcoming, to bring it back to these levels with the new specs.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > > > > > > You can have my Epidemic right after the rest of the DPS builds get nerfed down to Necro DPS levels.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would be fine to me, I always thought DPS is too high across the board. Nerfing everything by 50% would be perfect since DPS makes encounters easier since mechanics happen less often or not at all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hmm? Do you realize what does that mean in the context of Dhuum for instance?

> > > > >

> > > > > It is still doable. I have beaten him with 3 weavers dieing before the 10% phase even started

> > > >

> > > > It's doable, but the encounter is already very unreliable to pug as it is. Lowering the overall damage output, especially by this level, is going to increase its fail rate dramatically, save for people running in hardcore raid statics. It would end up in the majority of the raiders giving up on the encounter. It would increase the incentive for them to buy the kill once and never touch it again. It's not healthy, it won't happen.

> > >

> > > Are we balancing raids around pugs now?

> >

> > Sorry, but there is not one real DPS Check in this game. Raids are definitely balanced for Pugs in terms of DPS.

>

> lol your account name says it all

 

lol

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

>

> You were also apparently too lazy to do some proper research into this, as in no case will a mediocre Necro player outperform a good weaver. Much like how the boss DPS of a good weaver will be better than a bad one at KC as a result of not just auto attacking KC outside of major burn phases, there is more to a good Necro player than just their Epidemic button. In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic. Necro can also bring boon corrupt to deal with the Soul Suck's boon stealing mechanic, Flesh Wurm to protect the primary Reaper from deathling aggro, can sustainably kite the messengers on a near-full damage build thanks to barrier application mitigating the affliction mechanic, all while bring good amounts of CC to account for players being picked up by the echo.

>

 

OK. Let me get this straight. When I make balance suggestions for PvP people tell me it is fine as it is because in high tier games it is no longer an issue. And here people tell me we should balance around the average player? Nah, we should balance skills and traits in all game modes for the 100th percentile then and not just PvP.

 

Looking at what a "face rolling" player achieves with build xyz seems pointless in that regard

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

> >

> > You were also apparently too lazy to do some proper research into this, as in no case will a mediocre Necro player outperform a good weaver. Much like how the boss DPS of a good weaver will be better than a bad one at KC as a result of not just auto attacking KC outside of major burn phases, there is more to a good Necro player than just their Epidemic button. In Dhuum CM specifically Necro shines because it can do a large portion of its damage from range and while moving so as to avoid the Echo mechanic. Necro can also bring boon corrupt to deal with the Soul Suck's boon stealing mechanic, Flesh Wurm to protect the primary Reaper from deathling aggro, can sustainably kite the messengers on a near-full damage build thanks to barrier application mitigating the affliction mechanic, all while bring good amounts of CC to account for players being picked up by the echo.

> >

>

> OK. Let me get this straight. When I make balance suggestions for PvP people tell me it is fine as it is because in high tier games it is no longer an issue. And here people tell me we should balance around the average player? Nah, we should balance skills and traits in all game modes for the 100th percentile then and not just PvP.

 

 

No, I am saying before blindly calling for a nerf of something because it's been seen working amazingly well by exceptional players take a moment to understand all of the factors at play in these exceptional kills. It's less balancing around the average player and more not balancing skills in a vacuum without considering how each encounter/combination of "tools" a class has at its disposal affects its effectiveness for an encounter.

 

Sure, Scourge gets high damage with the assistance of Epidemic at VG, but it also can focus entirely on dealing damage due to being able to mitigate the green circle mechanic with barriers.

 

Sure, Epidemic is commonly used for Dhuum CM; but mainly due to it being more effective to use a dps build tha relies less on standing still/near a boss for its rotation, as well as a dps build that brings a lot of tools that mitigate mechanics in the fight.

 

Sure, Epidemic can be strong on some fights, but not all fights due to different levels of add "density", as well as additional aspects like hitboxes/invuln targets eating Epidemic projectiles (Xera, Deimos, Samarog), or fights not having anything applicable to Epi-bounce for at all (Samarog CM, Cairn, Matthias [depending on how creative you are/aren't]).

 

> Looking at what a "face rolling" player achieves with build xyz seems pointless in that regard

 

This is still an aspect of balance in my opinion; if something is so blatantly easy to play that just "face rolling" enables absurd levels of dps then it likely deserves to be nerfed unless there are other factors at play (like a resource system, said damage only being possible under certain conditions like torment, extreme fragility, etc.). Epidemic is not an example of this due to requiring the group as a whole to be putting out enough conditions to facilitate the "maximum" damage potential that you see in videos of highly skilled players, as well as having a sufficient level of communication to ensure that the Epidemic bouncing occurs in a swift manner to ensure the conditions transfer AND the various instances of Epidemic remain in sync to keep the damage itself sustainable all while maintaining the overall rotation/shade management.

 

There is more to the story here than just pressing Epidemic and getting free damage, it requires teamwork and coordination in addition to requiring investment of multiple dps slots to Scourges to even facilitate the damage to begin with.

[Draco.9480]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! it's the only thing that keeps necro useful after all the nerf he got from HoT to PoF. if you nerf epidemic then bring his single target damage back to around 40k. on golem he's weaker than banners 29k and banners is 30k. what a joke.

[CptAurellian.9537]

I guess few people would be against a substantial buff to necro (though 40k is way too much, 35k would be more reasonable) in exchange for a substantial nerf to epi.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> I guess few people would be against a substantial buff to necro (though 40k is way too much, 35k would be more reasonable) in exchange for a substantial nerf to epi.

 

History has shown we won't get much in return for any nerfs we receive, hence the apprehension to nerfing one of the last good things we have.

[CptAurellian.9537]

Yeah, I know the reality of the balance team's _high_ degree of competence.