PvE Weaver... Grieving, Viper's or Zerkers?

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @mygamingid.5816 said:

> > @mygamingid.5816 said:

> > > @"Agent Noun.7350" said:

> > > Alternative suggestion: Sinister. Especially if you focus on burning, you can max out your burning duration without a single point of Expertise:

> >

> > I'm a big fan of Sinister and Fire, but he went Water/Arcane. Given all the potential condis coming off Arcane and rapid attunement switching, I wanted to give him the best coverage possible.

>

> I'll add that you can get bleeds to 75% and burns to 100% running a Sinister set with just enough Viper for 15% condi duration (Earth/Fire/Weaver).

 

That's true. I'm looking forward to seeing how the research shakes out on that, actually--whether going Fire/Arcane/Weaver and focusing on burning, or Fire/Earth/Weaver and splitting between burning and bleeding will be the better option. I guess there's a third option of Fire/Arcane/Weaver with both burning and bleeding, but I'd guess that's only going to be better if Elemental Surge and Arcane Precision are worth trading a few more pieces for Viper's.

 

The reason I don't think Grieving will work for this is because, compared to Sinister, you're not just trading away Condition Damage for more Ferocity--you're also trading away _Precision_. Sinister has higher Precision than Grieving. With enough Viper's to get to 100% burning and 80% bleeding duration, filling the rest with Sinister gets you 13% higher crit chance and 190-ish more Condition Damage than Grieving, while Grieving would give you about 35% more critical damage. I really have no idea how the math works out, but if you're getting critical hits 13% more often with Sinister and doing more Condition Damage, I'd bet that outweighs 35% more critical damage.

 

Neither setup is going to reach 100% critical chance in a raid setting, I don't think, so that difference in critical chance is going to remain relevant. So what's better: 13% more critical chance and 190 more Condition Damage, or 35% more critical damage?

 

If you focus on only burning, the difference might swing even more in Sinister's favor. Full Sinister gives you almost 16% more chance to crit than full Grieving, and increases the Condition Damage difference to 230, while only losing another 1% critical damage.

 

One other problem for a burning-focused Grieving Weaver is that sword's fire attunement Power damage is... not great. But because you'll have to spend a lot of time in fire attunement to keep your burning rolling, that's the autoattack you're going to use most often. Maybe there's a rotation that lets you avoid autoattacking very much while keeping burning going?

[Glenstorm.4059]

This is my current build: [gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAF5it4C+4CM5ilGArILcDTk3V6OdpWoCEAihA-jBBXgAPKBD1DAs/o8rX9HA-e](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAF5it4C+4CM5ilGArILcDTk3V6OdpWoCEAihA-jBBXgAPKBD1DAs/o8rX9HA-e "gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAF5it4C+4CM5ilGArILcDTk3V6OdpWoCEAihA-jBBXgAPKBD1DAs/o8rX9HA-e")

 

I've been playing full Zerker because I haven't found Grieving recipes yet. I've been taking advantage of all the various CC options on Sword/Focus and their synergy with Lightning Rod and Superior Elements. Thinking of switching Arcane for Fire for more damage.

 

I would very much like to switch to Grieving to take advantage of Sword's condi damage.

[VaLee.5102]

Might as well go naked, sword weaver is so ridiculously bad no matter what stats you throw at it.

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @VaLee.5102 said:

> Might as well go naked, sword weaver is so ridiculously bad no matter what stats you throw at it.

 

I've heard it can stand up pretty well against dagger with a full burning condi build, though I haven't seen an actual benchmark yet. If it can perform well as a condi weapon, all isn't lost. I'd _much prefer_ that it be a good power weapon, but if it's good for something then it's not a total disaster and has a niche.

 

That said, I recall the assessment of sword was "_almost_ as much DPS as dagger," so it definitely still needs a buff if it's going to be a dedicated condi weapon.

[Aether McLoud.1975]

Why is no one running celestial? I run it with sword/dagger currently and liking it a lot.

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @"Aether McLoud.1975" said:

> Why is no one running celestial? I run it with sword/dagger currently and liking it a lot.

 

I think that depends on what you want to do.

 

For open world, or WvW? Celestial's going to be great. For group PvE though, specifically high-tier fractals and raids, Celestial's too general. You need to specialize there. That's why a lot of us are focusing on purely DPS stat sets--Berserker for staff, Sinister for anything else, at least going by the current balance.

[mygamingid.5816]

> @"Aether McLoud.1975" said:

> Why is no one running celestial? I run it with sword/dagger currently and liking it a lot.

 

Celestial is not part of the raid meta (low damage, gear-based sustain isn't needed), so it's immediately ignored by raid meta fans, regardless of whether they run around with raid meta support or not. WvW and people who regularly play without raid meta support have a much greater appreciation for Celestial's combination of damage, sustain, and healing. It's an excellent set for a high-utility profession like Ele as long as you don't care about maximizing DPS.

[Alwayshappy.2549]

Using a mix of Marauder and Viper's (ascended armor). Sword/focus. Works great.

[Kodiak.3281]

[This](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArYnMMAtMg9MAGOAM5iFBAr4N0GODBBgCwB4+VPrv1A-jBSBQB4RPBWUukQ1fOjSQis/wCeQAA4EA0FlUAA-e) is the build I've done most of HOT with at this point (my WvW gear). It's completely lacking Condi damage which is a total shame. I'm seeing huge bursts of damage on most of the high damage skills ranging 7-12k depending on buffs/boons/etc.

 

I'm a little torn however on whether Viper or Grieving is better past that point.

 

My rotation currently is start Earth/Fire -> 2 (toughness) -> 3 (burn) -> 4 (burn) -> 5 (burst) -> Water -> 4 (blast) -> 5 (blast, bleed, burst) -> 3 (bleed) -> Air -> 3 (Chill) -> 2 -> 4 -> 5 -> Fire -> 3 (burst) -> 2 (burst, burn, blast) -> Fire -> 4 (burn) -> 2 (burst, burn, blast) -> 3 (burst, burn, blast) -> Earth (repeat).

 

Second time through I wait a smidge in Earth to recast Ring of Fire so Earthquake/Churn will be up. Lots of blasts (might/fury for days), lots of burst damage, but also a lot of burn and bleed stacks. Also with spamming so many dual skills the small barriers do add up with all the boons. Stone Tide is 8 stacks of Bleed and Churning Earth is a whopping 12. if I go towards Vipers that'll add duration but my Crit damage tanks from 215% with Grieving to 150% which is a huge loss considering how many burst skills are in this setup. I'm just not sure making the Bleeds last a bit longer is really worth the damage sacrifice with the Ferocity loss with Grieving.

[Devildoc.6721]

> @"Aether McLoud.1975" said:

> Why is no one running celestial? I run it with sword/dagger currently and liking it a lot.

 

For solo I was running full berserker's with sword/dagger but finding that it really wasn't worth it, I decided to swap my bolt to celestial, and since my dagger is a caladbolg it was also cheap as hell to change that to celestial, and I had a set of celestial ascended accessories (the rings just dropped so I decided to get the rest of the setup just to use on alts from time to time) and reset a blood ruby back and swapped it to celestial. Armor I'm keeping berserker's for now since my crit chance did fall significantly with it but running around at about 19k health and having a little bit of condi damage and healing power (for the barriers) has improved landscape play. I wouldn't do group content like this though. I really do think the stats that would be best on sword for dps are grieving but it's still not going to hold a candle to zerker staff in any way.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

I found the Tomb. It looks like the Steward sells the Grieving equipment, but you need to do the rituals listed in a book which I forgot... where I got it.

 

However, the rituals are collections listed in the Rare Collections set... and they are not easy collections, lol.

 

Edit: For example, one requires full map completion of all the PoF maps. Another has you search for an NPC who changes maps every day and trade an object with her (her name is Elisa). I don't know if she moves around like a Bounty Target or stays in one place for each map, but that's annoying. I believe that's only one step of that collection, though. Another requires you to kill certain Legendary Bounties.

 

These collections are unlocked when you find a book which I believe is in the tomb. The book is sellable to merchants, but I personally wouldn't sell it until you get the collections done. Finishing the collections gives you a reward chest which allows you to pick a piece of Grieving armor. And if you don't get a full set, the Steward sells chests. He also sells trinkets with Grieving stats.

[Retsuko.2035]

> @"Aether McLoud.1975" said:

> Why is no one running celestial? I run it with sword/dagger currently and liking it a lot.

 

Celestial can be nice, especially if you build for survival. But like already said, it's too general and the dps loss is immense. Sword is a hybrid weapon which needs power+condi to work. Celestial gives you low power and no condi duration. You got healing power that scales badly.

 

I went with vipers and sinisters. By using flame of legion runes, agony and malice sigils, i got my condi duration for burning to 90% and bleeding to 100% (this includes the weaver trait and condi duration food). crit is lowish (30% without buff), but power is up to 2400 or so which is reasonable. Together with 1000+ condi damage stat I think it's pretty decent damage for PvE on sword/dagger. For survivability i can replace some sinister trinkets for whatever.

[mygamingid.5816]

With full raid meta support and Superior Elements (requires Weakness every 3s, 4s with 34% or better genral condi duration), Grieving can get to 100% crit chance. If you can maintain Weakness and pick and use only the best power and condi attacks to create a Goldilocks rotation, then it can find a place in the meta. I’m just not sure that Goldilocks beats a focused build and rotation.

[Manijin.3428]

Carrion or nothing. Currently rocking about 24k HP, and loving the tankiness.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Manijin.3428 said:

> Carrion or nothing. Currently rocking about 24k HP, and loving the tankiness.

 

Nice joke, I LOL'd.

[Manijin.3428]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Manijin.3428 said:

> > Carrion or nothing. Currently rocking about 24k HP, and loving the tankiness.

>

> Nice joke, I LOL'd.

 

Hey, don't knock it 'til you've tried it. :P

[Conncept.7638]

Dire!

 

Because I like my big long flashy might stacking condi-combos and sometimes It takes shirking a hit or two and refusing to dodge to get them off.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

Reminder: when I asked for advice, I was going with PvE advice for stats. ;)

 

So far, I am working on the Grieving collections.