Celestial

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > @"ima kong fu ninja.3052" said:

> > Please don't bring back cele.... Have we not learned anything? :astonished:

>

> The meta has shifted so much that any of the older builds won't matter anymore.

 

too many people don't get this sadly.........

[Aether McLoud.1975]

I would be overjoyed if a nerfed version (with whatever stats) of pvp celestial amulet came back. Not because of the overpowered builds of old, but simply because since the removal of it I don't feel there's a single amulet that fits elementalists of whatever playstyle.

 

If you want power damage, you'll have either absolutely no toughness and like 15k health, or you'll have ~1500 toughness but absolutely no vitality so about 11k health on the ele, and we all know that's an absolutely death sentence.

 

If you want condition damage, it's the same problem. And god help you if you want some power damage and some condition damage since there's no amulet with like 500 power 500 condition damage 500 vitality 500 toughness even, and even if there was power is pretty useless without at least a bit of crit and crit damage. And of course no matter what you do you'll want at least a bit healing power too, since a lot of your defense comes from sustain healing by class design.

 

Honestly at the core I guess it comes back to eles simply not having a "power weapon" or a "condi weapon" like other classes have. All ele weapons have some condi damage and some power damage innately, even on the very same skill often. On top of being the class with the lowest base health and armor. Which means no matter what we do, we always want at least some of the most important stats.

 

I wouldn't even care if it didn't give all stats. I just want to be able to play an ele with some additional toughness and some additional health and not hitting like a wet noodle. There should be a choice between full damage amulets with no defense, and full bunker amulets IMHO.

 

I don't really care if it's pro level competitive as long as it's fun enough (i.e. you're able to kill people if you work for it, but you're also able to survive some time and not get oneshot in a stun by a stealthing thief).

 

Sage and menders aren't completely terrible amulets but they wouldn't be my first choice either, but right now they really seem like the only choice at least for eles.

 

But of course my favorite solution for these problems would be to bring back the old amulet + jewel(s) system so we'd get some amount of stat combo customization again.

[Chaith.8256]

> @witcher.3197 said:

> > @Ario.8964 said:

> > Don't know why everyone is complaining about season 1 when celestial comes back in. You can't blame the amulet

>

> Why do people in this thread act as if celestial only existed in season 1? Didn't Abjured win a major tournament way before that with a 4 celestial comp (2 eles, 1 engi, 1 nec)? For nearly 2 years it was very oppressive on several classes - ele, warrior, necro, engi, then in HoT briefly ranger and mesmer.

>

> Now it could work with all those plus new ones like s/d condi thief.

>

 

Everyone gets this wrong, Beijing winning comp was Two cele eles, Carrion Necro, Rabid Engi, Cele Engi. 3 Cele when the EU meta comp was two cele and a Cleric Guard.........

[Lizardguard.2860]

I for one would welcome an updated celestial with expertise and concentration.

I wonder if you could introduce that in PvE as well. i doubt it´ll ever become meta, but it would be fun stats :)

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @witcher.3197 said:

> > > @Ario.8964 said:

> > > Don't know why everyone is complaining about season 1 when celestial comes back in. You can't blame the amulet

> >

> > Why do people in this thread act as if celestial only existed in season 1? Didn't Abjured win a major tournament way before that with a 4 celestial comp (2 eles, 1 engi, 1 nec)? For nearly 2 years it was very oppressive on several classes - ele, warrior, necro, engi, then in HoT briefly ranger and mesmer.

> >

> > Now it could work with all those plus new ones like s/d condi thief.

> >

>

> Everyone gets this wrong, Beijing winning comp was Two cele eles, Carrion Necro, Rabid Engi, Cele Engi. 3 Cele when the EU meta comp was two cele and a Cleric Guard.........

 

dude... condi s/d thief is way gone.. if you see someone running that build they are doing minimal damage with it. Do you even bother looking at patch notes? Celestial amulet was the highest skill cap meta.. Competition was at its peak and the main reason the majority of players didn't like it was due to it separating the bads from goods. Sry folks that is what happens when you put good players on a even playing ground across multiple classes against bad players.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

What people forget about cele amy is that its sustained damage not burst damage. Right now we have extreme burst dmg specs with condi and power which is very not fun. Cele amy gives the meta a way to bring about more drawn out fights, not like unkillable bunker comps, but rather its a lot harder to kill someone and teamwork is required to do so. Also even in 1v1 and 2v2s it feels alot more balanced since everyone's numbers are more on a even playing field which the better players will always win. Right now with the amount of condi and power dmg, a terrible player could accidently kill a player that was carrying so hard, its really not that hard to do massive damage right now. With cele amy fights get more tactical because you have more time to work out each kill.

 

TLDR: I would be very happy with cele amy coming back.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

People also say that every class would be running it.. The best necros in the game when cele was around last time did not run cele, they ran carrion. Thieves still ran zerker/marauder, mesmers would still be carrion, or maruader. You guys make stuff up when you say every class would run cele.

[Falan.1839]

With Mesmer already doing hybrid damage and scaling very well with healing power that will probably skyrocket that class quite a bit... Same for ele probably. I'm not sure if this is a good idea at all...

[ZhouX.8742]

Celestial will destroy this game even further ... You will find yourself with broken builds all over again with 6-9 months before they get adjusted/fine-tuned

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @Falan.1839 said:

> With Mesmer already doing hybrid damage and scaling very well with healing power that will probably skyrocket that class quite a bit... Same for ele probably. I'm not sure if this is a good idea at all...

 

Oh please.... i dont think you remember how low dmg condi does on cele amy. They will still be on carrion. And they can easily reduce heal scaling, they have done that like every patch too one class or another.

 

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> Celestial will destroy this game even further ... You will find yourself with broken builds all over again with 6-9 months before they get adjusted/fine-tuned

 

So are you saying there is no broken builds now? LoL. And if not, the only thing cele amy is gonna do is increase diversity across the board. Also balancing cele amy builds is really easy, because you can lower numbers or increase them without knocking the build out of meta... its a win win.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

Right now damage is completely out of control... getting a kill in a team fight feels like an accident most of the time.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > @"ima kong fu ninja.3052" said:

> > > Please don't bring back cele.... Have we not learned anything? :astonished:

> >

> > The meta has shifted so much that any of the older builds won't matter anymore.

>

> too many people don't get this sadly.........

 

Yeah... it is sad ...actually..

[Drekor.5217]

> @sephiroth.4217 said:

> What made Celestial OP was the might stacking builds.

>

> We have Spellbreaker now and a tonne of passive boon removals. They should atleast trial Celestial now and see how it goes.

 

You know who benefits a ton from Cele? Scourges. Do you really want to buff scourges?

[Ario.8964]

> @Drekor.5217 said:

> > @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > What made Celestial OP was the might stacking builds.

> >

> > We have Spellbreaker now and a tonne of passive boon removals. They should atleast trial Celestial now and see how it goes.

>

> You know who benefits a ton from Cele? Scourges. Do you really want to buff scourges?

 

Well you see there's this thing called nerfing the op mechanic and performance of a class to fix that without removing the possibility of diversity for everyone else...

[ZhouX.8742]

I really don't see how people can think of cele firebrand (as well as other classes) and then think putting celestial back into this game would be a healthy option. Mender's firebrand is already strong , imagine a celestial firebrand... Would be fucking ridiculous , and this is just one spec that would be massively broken for 6 MONTHS before they even touch the balance of it.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Exedore.6320 said:

> > I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

>

> We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

 

Hey Ben,

 

I have a suggestion. Why don't you guys give each class their own selection of amulets? It could be easier to balance between classes. Instead of universally removing a amulet, you could simply remove it from the classes that are over benefiting from it.

[Ario.8964]

Well then think of this ZhouX, take a cele firebrand and examine his stats (Likely a nerfed cele so I'll say he has 530 of each stat). Currently they have 1050 healing which would be cut in half by taking cele and as you can see with people's failed attempts to run sage it would not bring enough healing to the table to be good as a support. The burn damage from only 530 condi dmg would be meh so not much of a threat there either as they don't have a good uptime of burn. Given that their offensive pressure would be so low and their healing wouldn't be very good you could easily stay melee on them and kill them yourself as the armor and health they have won't mean much if they can't heal through your damage or force you off them with counter pressure from burn.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

One thing to keep in mind about all this is the PvP team is not tied to the skills & balance release schedule. If we decide that adding in a nerfed Celestial amulet had a negative affect, we'd remove it again on the next release. So it would be a matter of 3 weeks or so rather than months.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @Ario.8964 said:

> > @Drekor.5217 said:

> > > @sephiroth.4217 said:

> > > What made Celestial OP was the might stacking builds.

> > >

> > > We have Spellbreaker now and a tonne of passive boon removals. They should atleast trial Celestial now and see how it goes.

> >

> > You know who benefits a ton from Cele? Scourges. Do you really want to buff scourges?

>

> Well you see there's this thing called nerfing the op mechanic and performance of a class to fix that without removing the possibility of diversity for everyone else...

 

I dont even think good necros will run cele tbh, they dont benefit from all the stats, but for logics sake: 1 class being overtuned by an amy used by several others does not mean its a bad idea to put cele amy in. You want diversity right? cele is the epitome of diversity! You guys are so scared by "what ifs, if thens"... tbh nobody knows how cele is gonna perform with the new specs... cause guess what.. WE HAVNT HAD CELE IN 2-3 YEARS BRO.

[Jekkt.6045]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> One thing to keep in mind about all this is the PvP team is not tied to the skills & balance release schedule. If we decide that adding in a nerfed Celestial amulet had a negative affect, we'd remove it again on the next release. So it would be a matter of 3 weeks or so rather than months.

 

are you only willing to put in celestial or is there a chance we could see more than just one amulet?

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> One thing to keep in mind about all this is the PvP team is not tied to the skills & balance release schedule. If we decide that adding in a nerfed Celestial amulet had a negative affect, we'd remove it again on the next release. So it would be a matter of 3 weeks or so rather than months.

 

Right there.. that's the reason why sPvP is suffering Ben. I don't know your exact involvement within the sPvP team, but you and your PvP team need to get more synergized with the balance team. I'm guessing you guys have some involvement with the balance team, but I mean on more of a business type level meeting, so you can then take that information discussed, reorganize it for your customers and then present it to them through this forum or a weekly Guild Wars 2 twitch vod..

 

but hey, this post will probably not get responded too. its ok I'm used to it by now.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

delete.

/15char

 

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

We're open to adding additional amulets if we feel they will be a positive addition. We've been reading feedback. However, other new ones will take longer to add, since we'll need both new icon art and localization. Since Celestial already existed, we already have that stuff.

[ZhouX.8742]

I'm not sure it would even open build diversity but with celestial you have one main thing, reliance of might. This automatically makes spellbreaker/scourge even more powerful because they would be roughly the best options for taking away any might stack dmg you could generate with celestial, which would essentially just result in people running around doing no dmg while you open the floodgates for more spellbreakers/scourges to have a reason in teams and basically i guess s/d thief would be taken more (s/d core does quite well actually right now). Seems like with only a few classes having boon stripping, you just only make them powerful and not open much viability anywhere else.

 

but let's see how it goes