apharma.3741 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > > > > > > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. > > > > > > Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. > > > > Everything that is broken on mirage now was in the demo weekend. > > Literally everything got buffed except Elusive Mind. Immensely. From Self Deception to Riddle of Sand to Desert Distortion to the trait that gives vigor, Miragr Cloak itself and most importantly Ineptitude was justadded to the game on the demo weekend and no one realized how stupid good it was. Even the torch trait in Illusions got buffed. > > Elusive Mind was godly, Jaunt and Sword Leap were underestimated, but the foundation of the elite spec was terrible. > > I know, yet as I say, everything that is broken on mirage right now, was the same as in the beta. That everything else was dogs urine pretending to be fine wine doesn’t change that the clearly obvious overpowered stuff from back then was considered fine or weak by many mesmers and largely ignored by most of the community because of scourge. Even now there’s plenty in the mesmer forums finding every excuse in the book as to why it shouldn’t be nerfed or have changes, citing PvE, that other classes should be brought up to it and all sorts. I’m just glad people like yourself and Ori keep reminding people there are people that are interested in a properly balanced class, whether we agree on how or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > > > > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > > > > > > > > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. > > > > > > > > Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. > > > > > > Everything that is broken on mirage now was in the demo weekend. > > > > Literally everything got buffed except Elusive Mind. Immensely. From Self Deception to Riddle of Sand to Desert Distortion to the trait that gives vigor, Miragr Cloak itself and most importantly Ineptitude was justadded to the game on the demo weekend and no one realized how stupid good it was. Even the torch trait in Illusions got buffed. > > > > Elusive Mind was godly, Jaunt and Sword Leap were underestimated, but the foundation of the elite spec was terrible. > > > > > > I know, yet as I say, everything that is broken on mirage right now, was the same as in the beta. That everything else was dogs urine pretending to be fine wine doesn’t change that the clearly obvious overpowered stuff from back then was considered fine or weak by many mesmers and largely ignored by most of the community because of scourge. > > Even now there’s plenty in the mesmer forums finding every excuse in the book as to why it shouldn’t be nerfed or have changes, citing PvE, that other classes should be brought up to it and all sorts. I’m just glad people like yourself and Ori keep reminding people there are people that are interested in a properly balanced class, whether we agree on how or not. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that a build can have once aspect of it being over powered despite the build as a whole not being viable. Like for example there is a staff daredevil build than can no joke crit in for 20k with vault in Spvp. That one aspect is probably overpowered if we're being honest. But as a whole the build isn't all that viable or good. Mirage and elusive mind were the same way during the demo weekend imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. > > > > > > > > > > Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. > > > > > > > > Everything that is broken on mirage now was in the demo weekend. > > > > > > Literally everything got buffed except Elusive Mind. Immensely. From Self Deception to Riddle of Sand to Desert Distortion to the trait that gives vigor, Miragr Cloak itself and most importantly Ineptitude was justadded to the game on the demo weekend and no one realized how stupid good it was. Even the torch trait in Illusions got buffed. > > > > > > Elusive Mind was godly, Jaunt and Sword Leap were underestimated, but the foundation of the elite spec was terrible. > > > > > > > > > > I know, yet as I say, everything that is broken on mirage right now, was the same as in the beta. That everything else was dogs urine pretending to be fine wine doesn’t change that the clearly obvious overpowered stuff from back then was considered fine or weak by many mesmers and largely ignored by most of the community because of scourge. > > > > Even now there’s plenty in the mesmer forums finding every excuse in the book as to why it shouldn’t be nerfed or have changes, citing PvE, that other classes should be brought up to it and all sorts. I’m just glad people like yourself and Ori keep reminding people there are people that are interested in a properly balanced class, whether we agree on how or not. > > I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that a build can have once aspect of it being over powered despite the build as a whole not being viable. > > Like for example there is a staff daredevil build than can no joke crit in for 20k with vault in Spvp. That one aspect is probably overpowered if we're being honest. But as a whole the build isn't all that viable or good. Mirage and elusive mind were the same way during the demo weekend imho. I see what you’re saying and I guess we do disagree. If there’s a really strong feature that essentially carries what otherwise would be fairly poor then it often can stand in the way of those garbage skills/traits ever being good. An example is how riptide for weavers used to heal for about 3k+1.6k with a blast and would need nerfs if everything else was to be better. 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Devilman.1532 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 and the Mesmertrain rolls on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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