Why is DC punished more harshly than AFK:ing?

[Najten.2418]

My friend disconnects due to a game crash, reboots his PC and is back in about a minute.. He gets dishonor, I lose rating for queuing up with him, and I assume the rest of the team is spared rating loss in spite of losing the match..

Then a player is AFK at spawn for the first 5 ish minutes of the match, we obviously lose, and the rest of the team lose rating..

Imo being "away" for 5 minutes is a LOT worse than being away for 1, yet it isn't dealt with as harshly.. why is this? :| There must be a way for the game to tell if a player hasn't left spawn in several minutes and atleast give the team the same courtesy as if the player accidentally disconnects?

[Crinn.7864]

Because DCs is very easy to detect with zero chance of a false positive. AFK'ing is much harder, particularly since it's very easy to make macros to circumvent AFK detection algorithms.

[Najten.2418]

Still, likeliness of dealing 0 damage, taking 0 damage, not moving past the spawn location; after 5 minutes.. whatever you're doing you're not playing PvP as intended. That's 100% certain.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> Still, likeliness of dealing 0 damage, taking 0 damage, not moving past the spawn location; after 5 minutes.. whatever you're doing you're not playing PvP as intended. That's 100% certain.

 

If you set detection to that, then players will just AFK outside of the spawn. This isn't a problem that is new to gaming. Every PvP game I've ever played has struggled to handle AFK'ers.

 

If a player willfully decides that they do not want to contribute, there is no mechanic a dev could implement that will make them contribute.

 

[Najten.2418]

I'm certain it wouldn't be 100% efficient, but it should/could be better than this. Not participating in anything PvP related during a PvP game for X ammount of time should atleast award the same as disconnecting. ._.

[polvere.2805]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> I'm certain it wouldn't be 100% efficient, but it should/could be better than this. Not participating in anything PvP related during a PvP game for X ammount of time should atleast award the same as disconnecting. ._.

 

And we all agree on it. Then suggest how to address this problem. I am pretty confident that each time you suggest something there is a way to go around it. If it was that easy to solve then why every pvp game has this problem ?

Come on the devs are not stupid like a lot of people sustains if there was a working magical solution solving every problem they would have certainly already implemented

[Malediktus.9250]

Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

 

Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

[polvere.2805]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

>

> Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

 

I think this breaks the ToS. At least if those player are not under a contract with anet

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"polvere.2805" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

> >

> > Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

>

> I think this breaks the ToS. At least if those player are not under a contract with anet

?

These player mods do not exist, but could be an option to look into if there are too many PvP related reports for GMs to look into

[polvere.2805]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"polvere.2805" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

> > >

> > > Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

> >

> > I think this breaks the ToS. At least if those player are not under a contract with anet

> ?

> These player mods do not exist, but could be an option to look into if there are too many PvP related reports for GMs to look into

 

Waste of time, as i said in my other thread a lot of people report randomly and flood the ticket system. And you can't expect the report system to get stricter.

 

If you watch for example Overwatch where they follow too much the reports of the community they have banned more than once a lot of people just because they were not playing in the way their team wanted. I mean i bought a game, and i want to play it the way i want.

I am not justified to flame or cheat, but hell if i want to play a full banner warrior with double mace in pvp i can do it and i should not be reported for that.

 

The only way to improve report system has to be followed by the community that should get less salty and start to report in honesty.

[Sampson.2403]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> Still, likeliness of dealing 0 damage, taking 0 damage, not moving past the spawn location; after 5 minutes.. whatever you're doing you're not playing PvP as intended. That's 100% certain.

 

They already have a no movement timer in sPvP. You cant sit for 5 mins doing nothing or you will get flagged and dishonored.

 

So true afkers are actually being punished already.

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Najten.2418" said:

> > Still, likeliness of dealing 0 damage, taking 0 damage, not moving past the spawn location; after 5 minutes.. whatever you're doing you're not playing PvP as intended. That's 100% certain.

>

> If you set detection to that, then players will just AFK outside of the spawn. This isn't a problem that is new to gaming. Every PvP game I've ever played has struggled to handle AFK'ers.

>

> If a player willfully decides that they do not want to contribute, there is no mechanic a dev could implement that will make them contribute.

>

 

how can someone afk outside the safe zone and not get killed? They already log players' performance why don't they use it not to dishonor the afk guy but give him a negative rating say double of what his team that fought got?

 

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> They already have a no movement timer in sPvP. You cant sit for 5 mins doing nothing or you will get flagged and dishonored.

> So true afkers are actually being punished already.

easily bypassed.

[Sampson.2403]

Yes i know its easily bypassed by 'acting afk', my point though is that anet has already implemented something that detects and punishes true afks.

 

Like others have already said in this thread, its impossible to build any reliable pattern recognition feature that can accurately interpret the behavior of players 'acting afk' on purpose to throw games.

 

 

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> Yes i know its easily bypassed by 'acting afk', my point though is that anet has already implemented something that detects and punishes true afks.

>

> Like others have already said in this thread, its impossible to build any reliable pattern recognition feature that can accurately interpret the behavior of players 'acting afk' on purpose to throw games.

>

Most afk on purpose and throw the match against their team - this is the case we talk about. Technically speaking players' performance is logged and this information is reliable enough. Afk players do not produce damage, kills, offense, defense, etc.

 

 

[polvere.2805]

> @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > Yes i know its easily bypassed by 'acting afk', my point though is that anet has already implemented something that detects and punishes true afks.

> >

> > Like others have already said in this thread, its impossible to build any reliable pattern recognition feature that can accurately interpret the behavior of players 'acting afk' on purpose to throw games.

> >

> Most afk on purpose and throw the match against their team - this is the case we talk about. Technically speaking players' performance is logged and this information is reliable enough. Afk players do not produce damage, kills, offense, defense, etc.

>

>

 

Sadly it's quite hard to differentiate just by number a bad or new player from an afk. Also if we want to watch numbers i could just play scourge, run in the middle spam some aoe then die and still a lot of damages will be done if you hit >3 persons

[Spoichiche.1290]

Wouldn't a simple check to see if someone was out of combat for more than 2/3 min be more than enough to detect afker?

 

I mean, it wouldn't prevent people from throwing on purpose and there would still be a way around it if you afk and stay in combat but i don't see any downside really.

[Math.5123]

I sent a ticket to ArenaNet support of a certain player ruining "high-end" EU ranked games by afking. Sent video proof, pictures, chat logs and 4 different matches in one evening in which it happened. The player still isn't banned and this was over a week and a half ago. Even after receiving an answer saying they are looking in to it.

 

I guess it's same to assume that actively throwing games and griefing ain't frowned upon anymore.

[Vague Memory.2817]

Because Anet has no decent detection system for AFK, despite people saying IN CHAT "I'm going AFK, because the wind is coming from a North-Easterly direction", or some other nonsense. AKFing from my experience has become weaponised. People refusing to play if you don't play the way they want you to, because some other player said something bad about his or her mum, etc. etc. I want to see banning for this BS. You want to do that go unranked where no one cares. Maybe that is the problem, people just don't care about Ranked PvP any more, because things are so ridiculously unbalanced. That's probably why match quality has gone down the toilet.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

>

> Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

 

That creates a whole new host of problems for ANet, because then somebody would have to vet each individual player and manage them, which could honestly be more of a headache than a solution.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

> >

> > Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

>

> That creates a whole new host of problems for ANet, because then somebody would have to vet each individual player and manage them, which could honestly be more of a headache than a solution.

 

A perfect solution does not exist to these kind of problems, so it would be better than the current situation for sure.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > Anet could get player moderators and then players could flag matches for review. If a player mod sees strange activity he could then hand out x amount of dishonour or tag the game for GM review if something is going on that needs more than dishonour.

> > >

> > > Currently reporting someone for AFK or match manipulation seems to do absolutely nothing,

> >

> > That creates a whole new host of problems for ANet, because then somebody would have to vet each individual player and manage them, which could honestly be more of a headache than a solution.

>

> A perfect solution does not exist to these kind of problems, so it would be better than the current situation for sure.

 

I don't believe it would be better. People could just as easily abuse this kind of power.

 

An automatic system based on reports would make more sense -- if somebody gets reported for idling, points would accrue on their account that would gradually diminish over time (IE lose 1 point per hour). Once they reach a certain tipping point, they get temporary dishonor. If they continue accruing points even after the temporary dishonor is over, the dishonor length is extended significantly.

 

Is it perfect? No, it could be abused by trolls. But that's why it would rely on multiple people's inputs, not one person.

[Sampson.2403]

Im just curious where is all this afk trolling happening. People tend to blow things out of proportion.

 

I've played a lot of games this season and the previous season and I have rarely encountered troll afk behavior / win trading.

 

I don't mean to bash, because i know it is a problem for sure, but im guessing this happens in a very small % of your total games played and youve probably gotten free wins just as much as you've gotten auto losses from troll afkers.

 

I think people will play like 50 games that are all fine and then 1 game has some kind of outlier event occur and then they come onto the forums and present it like all 51 games happen this way.

 

[Najten.2418]

I'm well aware that any (or atleast most) automated system(s) can be avoided, if you really really want to. However, if you in order to avoid the "afk detection system", need to actively participate in combat, or cap a point, or atleast move a certain distance across the PvP map within a certain time limit, it would get rid of the vast majority of afk:ers. If you need to set up a macro or a bot in order to avoid auto-kick then while people can still do it and avoid it, it would take actual EFFORT to PURPOSELY mess other people up, which I can only hope would be a tiny minority of afk:ers. A system auto kicking/dishonoring people that don't leave spawn/actively participate for 30 or 60 seconds would atleast get rid of those that have an IRL emergency, or tab out and forget they checked the "ready box", or just dgaf, or go afk dancing cuz the team doesn't look like it's going to win.

[Najten.2418]

Accidental double post..

[Dralor.3701]

DC probably looks like a rage quit?