The issue that is the current state of PVP

[Poledra Val.1490]

I rarely write on these forums but here goes...

 

So after returning to GW2 to try pvp again after 8 months out, the state of PvP is highly laughable at the moment mostly due to the fact that balance has clearly and eternally been an issue.

 

Played over 200 matches this season and I find it astonishishing how broken the meta is by one or two professions. Not just by a small margin but a large one.

 

My concern is there is literally no variety still in this game for pvp builds (all professions) wise, you either pick a mesmer or perhaps a mesmer? Maybe you pick a Necro and another day then.....well then there is nothing much else really.

 

Sure you will find good players who played other classes for years and are very good at them I wont dispute that. However i find it pretty inexcusable and laughable how dominant a couple of these professions are currently to the point of being obnoxious. You go into a match and regardless of the high end or low end level of the skill playerbase there is one constant more often then not.

 

You will either see double mesmer or double necro six or seven times out of ten matches for either side. Pretty embaressing to see just 2 professions dominate almost all other professions because there OP in ways already mentioned on other threads which I wont bother repeating here.

 

Bottom line is not everyone will be satisfied with balance however after seeing this all season long it looks like that PvP in GW2 at the moment is a bit a joke and to be frank rather dull with lack of variety and clearly no balance, yet.

 

Its a shame.

 

I still think GW2 PvP is fantastic at its base (especially the first year of release) I will still play it but I find it almost a foregone conclusion that we will never have a reasonably balanced game for PvP, still you never know Anet may suprise us in the future. Obviously this is just my opinion and im sure others will agree or disagree.

 

Pol

[pah.4931]

It is funny how games without scourge or mesmer are usually pretty fun!

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> It is funny how games without scourge or mesmer are usually pretty fun!

 

I've noticed this as well. Matchups without those 2 classes/elites actually is really engaging and refreshing.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> It is funny how games without scourge or mesmer are usually pretty fun!

 

This is actually fairly true, and the funny thing is it's not even balance that's the big issue. A constant problem with the changes we get is often they don't consider the far more important question "Is this fun to play as AND fair to play against?". Instead Anet keeps making the same mistake of giving a class the ability to constantly attack and defend at the same time. Scourge can legit full condi bomb people **while the Scourge is being stunlocked**. It's not even that OP of a build anymore, I dunk Scourges all the time while playing dumb off-meta builds like Jalis renegade -it's just...not fun to deal with a brainless aoe spammer that can keep spamming aoes even when you interrupt him or if he is evading. And then we move on to what is by far the worst offender of the patch: Chrono. The mesmer himself just spams defensive skills, dodges, and heals, while 6-10 A.I. phantasms dunk on people for him. Builds that allow perpetually simultaneous offense and defense may be fun for a casual player to enjoy for maybe a few games due to how effective they are despite the low skill requirement, but that's it. The build gets old fast ( I played it for 10 matches and was like "I'm done, this is broken and stupid." ).

 

Out of every top 50 player I have watched stream every single one of them has gone on at least one rage-rant about the state of mes and how terrible for the game it is. These are often players who have invested thousands of hours into sPvP, have mad community respect for their skill, and yet balance patch after balance patch their sage advice gets completely ignored. If Anet wants to restore player faith in the game they need to start looking at how certain builds feel and play from the perspective of both the player using the spec and the opposing team going against the spec.

 

From the perspective of number of classes that have a meta build, the balance isn't even that awful. Most of the changes last patch were steps in the right direction, and most classes have a viable meta spec. The real issue is that two of those top classes are just flat out poorly designed and bad for the game.

 

 

 

[Marxx.5021]

I think the real issue is a fixed 3 month balance patch cycle that is not appropriate for PvP. With upcoming thief changes another class may be in beta test next months.

[lilypop.7819]

I argued, some months ago, that every pvp player on Qing should have to specify a single class/profession to avoid.

 

Point being that any truly OP specs would be handicapped with longer Q-times, and of course provide a very simple mechanism as to where Anet should start balancing - rather than fiddling across all professions as is their bent. The spectrum of voting produced would provide an excellent means of directing Anet's PvP balance team since balance would only be achieved when all professions are equally hated! There would be nothing wrong either in Anet publishing this spectrum as for me there is no creditability in GW2 PvP gaming. Aside from this such a voting/pruning system would provide a harmless vent for people's anger, irrespective of merit.

 

Let's be blunt, Anet couldn't balance PvP in four years, so they are not going to balance PvP in 6 months time. I think we are all kidding ourselves that Gw2 PvP can be balanced with all the hacks, bugs exploits, key macros, match fixing, match throwing, and value-to-Anet considerations etc.

 

So why not provide some sort of accommodation to the player base? Some crumb of comfort.

 

FWIW: I would block warrior at present, come across far too many 'odd' warriors recently :)....

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> I rarely write on these forums but here goes...

>

> So after returning to GW2 to try pvp again after 8 months out, the state of PvP is highly laughable at the moment mostly due to the fact that balance has clearly and eternally been an issue.

>

> Played over 200 matches this season and I find it astonishishing how broken the meta is by one or two professions. Not just by a small margin but a large one.

>

> My concern is there is literally no variety still in this game for pvp builds (all professions) wise, you either pick a mesmer or perhaps a mesmer? Maybe you pick a Necro and another day then.....well then there is nothing much else really.

>

> Sure you will find good players who played other classes for years and are very good at them I wont dispute that. However i find it pretty inexcusable and laughable how dominant a couple of these professions are currently to the point of being obnoxious. You go into a match and regardless of the high end or low end level of the skill playerbase there is one constant more often then not.

>

> You will either see double mesmer or double necro six or seven times out of ten matches for either side. Pretty embaressing to see just 2 professions dominate almost all other professions because there OP in ways already mentioned on other threads which I wont bother repeating here.

>

> Bottom line is not everyone will be satisfied with balance however after seeing this all season long it looks like that PvP in GW2 at the moment is a bit a joke and to be frank rather dull with lack of variety and clearly no balance, yet.

>

> Its a shame.

>

> I still think GW2 PvP is fantastic at its base (especially the first year of release) I will still play it but I find it almost a foregone conclusion that we will never have a reasonably balanced game for PvP, still you never know Anet may suprise us in the future. Obviously this is just my opinion and im sure others will agree or disagree.

>

> Pol

 

What's worse is that they just completely abandon previous elite and core specializations. For a long time, I've been waiting for ArenaNet to buff core engineer, since I've played core power engineer since 2013. Not saying that core engineer isn't viable, it's just that if you're using 3 kit builds, you basically have to play like a god in order to compete with Holosmiths or other players in general. Same with necromancer, mesmer and other core specializations that need to be looked into.

 

Every time you see a necromancer in the match, it's 90% guaranteed to be a condi Scourge, mesmers are most likely to be disenchanter or whatever other broken profession in the current season. ArenaNet talks a lot about wanting build variety, but how do you expect that when there's only one viable build?

[BMW.2951]

It's sad really. Two classes can completely break PvP and it's just not fun anymore. Double necro games... double Chrono games... Fun and fair right?

 

I do not plan to play the next season other than getting my chests for the first time. I am not a bandwagoner that jumps to an OP class just so I can have an edge on someone in a video game. ANET you need to either balance your game in PvP or you will see the death of PvP. Expect to lose a lot of people in your game if you do nothing.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Marxx.5021" said:

> I think the real issue is a fixed 3 month balance patch cycle that is not appropriate for PvP. With upcoming thief changes another class may be in beta test next months.

The balance cycle is fine. The problem is the scope of the changes. When something is grossly overpowered, it needs to be nerfed in large chunks. ANet just shaves. Unless they're making changes every week, they'll never get to a good state any time soon.

Changing too many things too often is bad for a game. Players get frustrated and can't learn when many things constantly change underneath them.

[Kraitan.8476]

the whole wintrading thing and unfun metas without Anet intervening + bugs that were introduced with PoF (like warri full counter bug) still existing doesn’t help the population grow..

 

 

[witcher.3197]

> @"Kraitan.8476" said:

> the whole wintrading thing and unfun metas without Anet intervening + bugs that were introduced with PoF (like warri full counter bug) still existing doesn’t help the population grow..

>

>

 

Full counter will never be fixed.. guardian mace 3 has been bugged like that since 2012

[coro.3176]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Marxx.5021" said:

> > I think the real issue is a fixed 3 month balance patch cycle that is not appropriate for PvP. With upcoming thief changes another class may be in beta test next months.

> The balance cycle is fine. The problem is the scope of the changes. When something is grossly overpowered, it needs to be nerfed in large chunks. ANet just shaves. Unless they're making changes every week, they'll never get to a good state any time soon.

 

I think what is most frustrating about this latest stretch is that everyone knew chrono/mirage would be OP as kitten and said as much again and again on the forum when the balance changes were proposed.

 

.. and then they did it anyway. .. and now chrono and mirage have been OP as kitten for months.

 

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> > I rarely write on these forums but here goes...

> >

> > So after returning to GW2 to try pvp again after 8 months out, the state of PvP is highly laughable at the moment mostly due to the fact that balance has clearly and eternally been an issue.

> >

> > Played over 200 matches this season and I find it astonishishing how broken the meta is by one or two professions. Not just by a small margin but a large one.

> >

> > My concern is there is literally no variety still in this game for pvp builds (all professions) wise, you either pick a mesmer or perhaps a mesmer? Maybe you pick a Necro and another day then.....well then there is nothing much else really.

> >

> > Sure you will find good players who played other classes for years and are very good at them I wont dispute that. However i find it pretty inexcusable and laughable how dominant a couple of these professions are currently to the point of being obnoxious. You go into a match and regardless of the high end or low end level of the skill playerbase there is one constant more often then not.

> >

> > You will either see double mesmer or double necro six or seven times out of ten matches for either side. Pretty embaressing to see just 2 professions dominate almost all other professions because there OP in ways already mentioned on other threads which I wont bother repeating here.

> >

> > Bottom line is not everyone will be satisfied with balance however after seeing this all season long it looks like that PvP in GW2 at the moment is a bit a joke and to be frank rather dull with lack of variety and clearly no balance, yet.

> >

> > Its a shame.

> >

> > I still think GW2 PvP is fantastic at its base (especially the first year of release) I will still play it but I find it almost a foregone conclusion that we will never have a reasonably balanced game for PvP, still you never know Anet may suprise us in the future. Obviously this is just my opinion and im sure others will agree or disagree.

> >

> > Pol

>

> What's worse is that they just completely abandon previous elite and core specializations. For a long time, I've been waiting for ArenaNet to buff core engineer, since I've played core power engineer since 2013. Not saying that core engineer isn't viable, it's just that if you're using 3 kit builds, you basically have to play like a god in order to compete with Holosmiths or other players in general. Same with necromancer, mesmer and other core specializations that need to be looked into.

>

 

This definitely feels true for me. When I play holosmith, I feel ridiculously powerful compared to base classes and non-meta builds. When I play condi engi, I feel like I can consistently outplay my opponents by a huge margin but still can't kill them half the time. When I do eventually kill them, I've effectively landed my full close-range burst 5 times and wasted almost a minute. If I was playing holo in that situation, I'd have just won in the first 5 seconds.

[BMW.2951]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Kraitan.8476" said:

> > the whole wintrading thing and unfun metas without Anet intervening + bugs that were introduced with PoF (like warri full counter bug) still existing doesn’t help the population grow..

> >

> >

>

> Full counter will never be fixed.. guardian mace 3 has been bugged like that since 2012

 

I think the full counter bug exists due to people having older gpus. My buddy has told me he has seen this many times but not once have I seen it on my 1080 gtx.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"BMW.2951" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > @"Kraitan.8476" said:

> > > the whole wintrading thing and unfun metas without Anet intervening + bugs that were introduced with PoF (like warri full counter bug) still existing doesn’t help the population grow..

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Full counter will never be fixed.. guardian mace 3 has been bugged like that since 2012

>

> I think the full counter bug exists due to people having older gpus. My buddy has told me he has seen this many times but not once have I seen it on my 1080 gtx.

 

I'm pretty sure when the animation is bugged everyone globally sees it. I could be mistaken.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I think that the ranting against Mesmer reflects a lack of understanding of the class. **I can beat a Mirage or Chrono on core Mesmer.. probably better than half the time in ranked.**

 

Mesmer has never been a straightforward "look I swung my sword" kind of class. More often than not, players who lose to me beat themselves. (including one prominent high ranking player who walked into a shatter.)

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> This definitely feels true for me. When I play holosmith, I feel ridiculously powerful compared to base classes and non-meta builds. When I play condi engi, I feel like I can consistently outplay my opponents by a huge margin but still can't kill them half the time. When I do eventually kill them, I've effectively landed my full close-range burst 5 times and wasted almost a minute. If I was playing holo in that situation, I'd have just won in the first 5 seconds.

 

Meta is no longer taking into consideration builds that are very rewarding, but require a lot of skill in order to be effective. Holosmith is meta because it's super easy to play and it's basically a glass cannon specialization with too much sustain to even be called a glass cannon. Being able to use healing and utility skills is by far the worst design choice ever made for a glass cannon specialization.

 

If the Holosmith wasn't able to use healing and utility skills during the Photon Forge, similar to the necromancer in Shroud form then I could forgive it because it's meant to be a glass cannon. But in its' current state it's just a better version than both Scrapper and core engineer.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I think that the ranting against Mesmer reflects a lack of understanding of the class. **I can beat a Mirage or Chrono on core Mesmer.. probably better than half the time in ranked.**

>

> Mesmer has never been a straightforward "look I swung my sword" kind of class. More often than not, players who lose to me beat themselves. (including one prominent high ranking player who walked into a shatter.)

 

Okay honestly do you understand the fact that you're in SILVER?

 

I'm not trying to be mean, but you have to realize that players in silver are NOT good by any stretch of the imagination. I could probably 1v5 an entire team of silver players without breaking a sweat.

 

You're literally going up against really bad chronomancers and mirages in ranked. If bronze is a potato, silver is a boiled potato because it is only SLIGHTLY better.

 

Every single build (yes, including your core PU mesmer where its main mechanic is to lose your node) works in the lower divisions because everyone is playing at an extremely low skill level.

 

What happens when you go up against actual good players? You get spawn camped 500-0 in ATs.

[BMW.2951]

I would like to see this 1v5 players sir. I am going to bet the 5 really bad players can take you out. lol

[Ithilwen.1529]

@Shadowpass Better yet, let's duel.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> @Shadowpass Better yet, let's duel.

 

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

Tell me when

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I think that the ranting against Mesmer reflects a lack of understanding of the class. **I can beat a Mirage or Chrono on core Mesmer.. probably better than half the time in ranked.**

>

> Mesmer has never been a straightforward "look I swung my sword" kind of class. More often than not, players who lose to me beat themselves. (including one prominent high ranking player who walked into a shatter.)

 

Can you stop obviously referencing the match where I died once in unranked while attempting to escape a 2v3? In it my teammate insta-died to a plat thief I've known for 6yrs and other teammate who both proceeded to landed the killing blow on me too. I think you landed 1-2 skills.

 

Obviously I proceeded to farm your PU Mesmer into a 500-350 victory or so.

 

Nobody is mislead into thinking 'prominent' players lose to you. A good combo of two top 25 players would Graveyard camp 5 of you.

 

Again, stop referencing your previous posts that name drop me. :lol:

[pah.4931]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I think that the ranting against Mesmer reflects a lack of understanding of the class. **I can beat a Mirage or Chrono on core Mesmer.. probably better than half the time in ranked.**

>

> Mesmer has never been a straightforward "look I swung my sword" kind of class. More often than not, players who lose to me beat themselves. (including one prominent high ranking player who walked into a shatter.)

 

Oh come on. There's a tourney coming up with $2000 in prizes (wooden potatoes is casting) and they actually BANNED chronomancer because everyone agrees it's OP and broken right now for sPvP.

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"BMW.2951" said:

> It's sad really. Two classes can completely break PvP and it's just not fun anymore. Double necro games... double Chrono games... Fun and fair right?

>

> I do not plan to play the next season other than getting my chests for the first time. I am not a bandwagoner that jumps to an OP class just so I can have an edge on someone in a video game. ANET you need to either balance your game in PvP or you will see the death of PvP. Expect to lose a lot of people in your game if you do nothing.

 

It's not necessarly about 2 classes breaking PvP themselves but viewing the problem in a whole. It's impossible to have an impact in such games, it's usually about your mesmers/necro against theirs, and snowballing till the end.

You have 1 mesmer capping their close, 1 mesmer coming to your close. Scourge + guardian+ x caring mid. How do you counter this ? You will be forced to have a necro to kill mid, and someone that can handle mesmer on close, thus basically, you have to run 2 mesmers + scourge as well..

Pretty much why the top100 mainly run scourge or mesmers, since that's the only classes that can have an impact on the game..

 

[BMW.2951]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > @"BMW.2951" said:

> > It's sad really. Two classes can completely break PvP and it's just not fun anymore. Double necro games... double Chrono games... Fun and fair right?

> >

> > I do not plan to play the next season other than getting my chests for the first time. I am not a bandwagoner that jumps to an OP class just so I can have an edge on someone in a video game. ANET you need to either balance your game in PvP or you will see the death of PvP. Expect to lose a lot of people in your game if you do nothing.

>

> It's not necessarly about 2 classes breaking PvP themselves but viewing the problem in a whole. It's impossible to have an impact in such games, it's usually about your mesmers/necro against theirs, and snowballing till the end.

> You have 1 mesmer capping their close, 1 mesmer coming to your close. Scourge + guardian+ x caring mid. How do you counter this ? You will be forced to have a necro to kill mid, and someone that can handle mesmer on close, thus basically, you have to run 2 mesmers + scourge as well..

> Pretty much why the top100 mainly run scourge or mesmers, since that's the only classes that can have an impact on the game..

>

 

Exactly. Fix Scourges and Mesmers.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I think that the ranting against Mesmer reflects a lack of understanding of the class. **I can beat a Mirage or Chrono on core Mesmer.. probably better than half the time in ranked.**

> >

> > Mesmer has never been a straightforward "look I swung my sword" kind of class. More often than not, players who lose to me beat themselves. (including one prominent high ranking player who walked into a shatter.)

>

> Oh come on. There's a tourney coming up with $2000 in prizes (wooden potatoes is casting) and they actually BANNED chronomancer because everyone agrees it's OP and broken right now for sPvP.

 

Therein lies the problem in my opinion.

 

There's a mob mentality that wants things to be EASY. It turns against anything that requires a higher level of skill or interaction to deal with.

 

We keep descending toward the lowest common denominator.