CrayonComa.7129 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > Dont forget that t3 is the field enabler depending on legend.. Thats what makes it good. First t3, then t2 or t5 > > > > > > > > > > and what do you use to activate that field? 20% projectiles? > > > > > > > > Absolutely. Even with the 20% chance, you can inflict lots of vulnerability, remove condis, or leech life. Skill 5 has 22 hits-- if every one of those hits procced a combo finisher, given how fast they hit, it would be broken. Skill 2 is 8 strikes I think, and also hits very quickly. Skill 1 is always a finisher, and you can fireplenty of those in addition to the non-autos while the field is up. Most of these have relatively short cooldowns, so you won't burn out super quick. ? > > > > > > You should probably try this ingame or something and read up on finishers and combo fields. > > > > > > Dark Fields: 202 life steal, 202 healing > > > Lightning Fields: vulnerability 5 seconds > > > Light Fields: cleansing bolt > > > > > > Dark Fields leeching is pathetic. There really isn't an argument for it until you are talking 100% projectile finishers. And no, trident 1 nor spear 1 is a 100% finisher. > > > Lightning Fields vulnerability has half the duration of any of the trident skills. Trident 5 already caps out vulnerability and the rest of the skills have basically no proc chance value when weighed against skill vulnerability. > > > Light Fields only affects allies the bolt passes through and those in melee range of struck foes. > > > > > > This is beyond the fact the field is not nearly as big underwater as it is on land. Just testing on pve foes and they are immediately out of it the second I cast it. To make any procs happen I had to get into melee range and cast it then cast my other trident skills. Against ranged attackers it might be ok until they swim out of it? It is automatically centered on the foe so you cannot place it in front of them to double the crossing distance. > > > > > > The real reason to cast trident 3 is the cheap cost, the chilling field, protection and quite simply it's long duration. > > > > Hi, thanks, I've used it in game quite a bit. Trident is my new favorite underwater weapon for rev. I'll admit, I mostly use the lightning field. Tends to melt whatever is inside. Would definitely be neat if it were larger so that the light field could be used more effectively by a support build. ? > > What exactly about this field causes "whatever is inside" to "melt"? For me, it's the rapid vulnerability application (brutal bolts) in conjunction with the number of strikes. I usually hit 3, then 5, then auto if needed. Keep in mind, this is in pve (non-champion level mobs), and enemies there arent as tough as players in WvW that might have access to reflects! I also run a power build, and having nearly every shot crit helps. I'm sure it's different for support or condi builds, and I think that the field being larger would not be a bad thing at all. It has lots of potential, but it's definitely more useful for picking off enemies one or two at a time. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Burtnik.5218" said: > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > I'm loving the new Trident. Especially the new 5 skill, unreliable as it may be. But potentially 22 torment on a 3? second channel is fun design. Fun is the bread and butter of UW skills as there's no real endgame UW combat, excluding that 1 fractal. > > That may change next expension. Theres a reason why they looked at underwater combat . I hope not! The last thing this game needs is MORE useless content. Underwater combat is WAY too limited to PvE content to make a whole expansion around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > Dont forget that t3 is the field enabler depending on legend.. Thats what makes it good. First t3, then t2 or t5 > > > > > > > > > > > > and what do you use to activate that field? 20% projectiles? > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely. Even with the 20% chance, you can inflict lots of vulnerability, remove condis, or leech life. Skill 5 has 22 hits-- if every one of those hits procced a combo finisher, given how fast they hit, it would be broken. Skill 2 is 8 strikes I think, and also hits very quickly. Skill 1 is always a finisher, and you can fireplenty of those in addition to the non-autos while the field is up. Most of these have relatively short cooldowns, so you won't burn out super quick. ? > > > > > > > > You should probably try this ingame or something and read up on finishers and combo fields. > > > > > > > > Dark Fields: 202 life steal, 202 healing > > > > Lightning Fields: vulnerability 5 seconds > > > > Light Fields: cleansing bolt > > > > > > > > Dark Fields leeching is pathetic. There really isn't an argument for it until you are talking 100% projectile finishers. And no, trident 1 nor spear 1 is a 100% finisher. > > > > Lightning Fields vulnerability has half the duration of any of the trident skills. Trident 5 already caps out vulnerability and the rest of the skills have basically no proc chance value when weighed against skill vulnerability. > > > > Light Fields only affects allies the bolt passes through and those in melee range of struck foes. > > > > > > > > This is beyond the fact the field is not nearly as big underwater as it is on land. Just testing on pve foes and they are immediately out of it the second I cast it. To make any procs happen I had to get into melee range and cast it then cast my other trident skills. Against ranged attackers it might be ok until they swim out of it? It is automatically centered on the foe so you cannot place it in front of them to double the crossing distance. > > > > > > > > The real reason to cast trident 3 is the cheap cost, the chilling field, protection and quite simply it's long duration. > > > > > > Hi, thanks, I've used it in game quite a bit. Trident is my new favorite underwater weapon for rev. I'll admit, I mostly use the lightning field. Tends to melt whatever is inside. Would definitely be neat if it were larger so that the light field could be used more effectively by a support build. ? > > > > What exactly about this field causes "whatever is inside" to "melt"? > > For me, it's the rapid vulnerability application (brutal bolts) in conjunction with the number of strikes. I usually hit 3, then 5, then auto if needed. Keep in mind, this is in pve (non-champion level mobs), and enemies there arent as tough as players in WvW that might have access to reflects! I also run a power build, and having nearly every shot crit helps. I'm sure it's different for support or condi builds, and I think that the field being larger would not be a bad thing at all. It has lots of potential, but it's definitely more useful for picking off enemies one or two at a time. =) Trident 5 gives you 22 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds. Lightning Field projectile procs 1 vulnerability for 5seconds. I'm not seeing how doing this combo "melts foes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said: > > @"Burtnik.5218" said: > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > I'm loving the new Trident. Especially the new 5 skill, unreliable as it may be. But potentially 22 torment on a 3? second channel is fun design. Fun is the bread and butter of UW skills as there's no real endgame UW combat, excluding that 1 fractal. > > > > That may change next expension. Theres a reason why they looked at underwater combat . > > I hope not! The last thing this game needs is MORE useless content. Underwater combat is WAY too limited to PvE content to make a whole expansion around. In what way is underwater useless? Maybe useless people underwater but hardly can any content be called "useless". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayonComa.7129 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > Dont forget that t3 is the field enabler depending on legend.. Thats what makes it good. First t3, then t2 or t5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what do you use to activate that field? 20% projectiles? > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely. Even with the 20% chance, you can inflict lots of vulnerability, remove condis, or leech life. Skill 5 has 22 hits-- if every one of those hits procced a combo finisher, given how fast they hit, it would be broken. Skill 2 is 8 strikes I think, and also hits very quickly. Skill 1 is always a finisher, and you can fireplenty of those in addition to the non-autos while the field is up. Most of these have relatively short cooldowns, so you won't burn out super quick. ? > > > > > > > > > > You should probably try this ingame or something and read up on finishers and combo fields. > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields: 202 life steal, 202 healing > > > > > Lightning Fields: vulnerability 5 seconds > > > > > Light Fields: cleansing bolt > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields leeching is pathetic. There really isn't an argument for it until you are talking 100% projectile finishers. And no, trident 1 nor spear 1 is a 100% finisher. > > > > > Lightning Fields vulnerability has half the duration of any of the trident skills. Trident 5 already caps out vulnerability and the rest of the skills have basically no proc chance value when weighed against skill vulnerability. > > > > > Light Fields only affects allies the bolt passes through and those in melee range of struck foes. > > > > > > > > > > This is beyond the fact the field is not nearly as big underwater as it is on land. Just testing on pve foes and they are immediately out of it the second I cast it. To make any procs happen I had to get into melee range and cast it then cast my other trident skills. Against ranged attackers it might be ok until they swim out of it? It is automatically centered on the foe so you cannot place it in front of them to double the crossing distance. > > > > > > > > > > The real reason to cast trident 3 is the cheap cost, the chilling field, protection and quite simply it's long duration. > > > > > > > > Hi, thanks, I've used it in game quite a bit. Trident is my new favorite underwater weapon for rev. I'll admit, I mostly use the lightning field. Tends to melt whatever is inside. Would definitely be neat if it were larger so that the light field could be used more effectively by a support build. ? > > > > > > What exactly about this field causes "whatever is inside" to "melt"? > > > > For me, it's the rapid vulnerability application (brutal bolts) in conjunction with the number of strikes. I usually hit 3, then 5, then auto if needed. Keep in mind, this is in pve (non-champion level mobs), and enemies there arent as tough as players in WvW that might have access to reflects! I also run a power build, and having nearly every shot crit helps. I'm sure it's different for support or condi builds, and I think that the field being larger would not be a bad thing at all. It has lots of potential, but it's definitely more useful for picking off enemies one or two at a time. =) > > Trident 5 gives you 22 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds. Lightning Field projectile procs 1 vulnerability for 5seconds. I'm not seeing how doing this combo "melts foes". I'm sure a lot has to do with my build, as well. The vulnerability causes the enemies to take greater damage sooner, so most normal mobs die in less than three seconds, vets in around 5. The trident already deals quite a bit of damage on its own; using the combo field simply increases my chance of applying multiple stacks of vulnerability in a short amount of time so that the enemy takes more damage sooner after engaging. Running Devastation also helps! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > Dont forget that t3 is the field enabler depending on legend.. Thats what makes it good. First t3, then t2 or t5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what do you use to activate that field? 20% projectiles? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely. Even with the 20% chance, you can inflict lots of vulnerability, remove condis, or leech life. Skill 5 has 22 hits-- if every one of those hits procced a combo finisher, given how fast they hit, it would be broken. Skill 2 is 8 strikes I think, and also hits very quickly. Skill 1 is always a finisher, and you can fireplenty of those in addition to the non-autos while the field is up. Most of these have relatively short cooldowns, so you won't burn out super quick. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > You should probably try this ingame or something and read up on finishers and combo fields. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields: 202 life steal, 202 healing > > > > > > Lightning Fields: vulnerability 5 seconds > > > > > > Light Fields: cleansing bolt > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields leeching is pathetic. There really isn't an argument for it until you are talking 100% projectile finishers. And no, trident 1 nor spear 1 is a 100% finisher. > > > > > > Lightning Fields vulnerability has half the duration of any of the trident skills. Trident 5 already caps out vulnerability and the rest of the skills have basically no proc chance value when weighed against skill vulnerability. > > > > > > Light Fields only affects allies the bolt passes through and those in melee range of struck foes. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is beyond the fact the field is not nearly as big underwater as it is on land. Just testing on pve foes and they are immediately out of it the second I cast it. To make any procs happen I had to get into melee range and cast it then cast my other trident skills. Against ranged attackers it might be ok until they swim out of it? It is automatically centered on the foe so you cannot place it in front of them to double the crossing distance. > > > > > > > > > > > > The real reason to cast trident 3 is the cheap cost, the chilling field, protection and quite simply it's long duration. > > > > > > > > > > Hi, thanks, I've used it in game quite a bit. Trident is my new favorite underwater weapon for rev. I'll admit, I mostly use the lightning field. Tends to melt whatever is inside. Would definitely be neat if it were larger so that the light field could be used more effectively by a support build. ? > > > > > > > > What exactly about this field causes "whatever is inside" to "melt"? > > > > > > For me, it's the rapid vulnerability application (brutal bolts) in conjunction with the number of strikes. I usually hit 3, then 5, then auto if needed. Keep in mind, this is in pve (non-champion level mobs), and enemies there arent as tough as players in WvW that might have access to reflects! I also run a power build, and having nearly every shot crit helps. I'm sure it's different for support or condi builds, and I think that the field being larger would not be a bad thing at all. It has lots of potential, but it's definitely more useful for picking off enemies one or two at a time. =) > > > > Trident 5 gives you 22 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds. Lightning Field projectile procs 1 vulnerability for 5seconds. I'm not seeing how doing this combo "melts foes". > > I'm sure a lot has to do with my build, as well. The vulnerability causes the enemies to take greater damage sooner, so most normal mobs die in less than three seconds, vets in around 5. The trident already deals quite a bit of damage on its own; using the combo field simply increases my chance of applying multiple stacks of vulnerability in a short amount of time so that the enemy takes more damage sooner after engaging. Running Devastation also helps! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayonComa.7129 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > > @"CrayonComa.7129" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > > > > > > > Dont forget that t3 is the field enabler depending on legend.. Thats what makes it good. First t3, then t2 or t5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what do you use to activate that field? 20% projectiles? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely. Even with the 20% chance, you can inflict lots of vulnerability, remove condis, or leech life. Skill 5 has 22 hits-- if every one of those hits procced a combo finisher, given how fast they hit, it would be broken. Skill 2 is 8 strikes I think, and also hits very quickly. Skill 1 is always a finisher, and you can fireplenty of those in addition to the non-autos while the field is up. Most of these have relatively short cooldowns, so you won't burn out super quick. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should probably try this ingame or something and read up on finishers and combo fields. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields: 202 life steal, 202 healing > > > > > > > Lightning Fields: vulnerability 5 seconds > > > > > > > Light Fields: cleansing bolt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Fields leeching is pathetic. There really isn't an argument for it until you are talking 100% projectile finishers. And no, trident 1 nor spear 1 is a 100% finisher. > > > > > > > Lightning Fields vulnerability has half the duration of any of the trident skills. Trident 5 already caps out vulnerability and the rest of the skills have basically no proc chance value when weighed against skill vulnerability. > > > > > > > Light Fields only affects allies the bolt passes through and those in melee range of struck foes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is beyond the fact the field is not nearly as big underwater as it is on land. Just testing on pve foes and they are immediately out of it the second I cast it. To make any procs happen I had to get into melee range and cast it then cast my other trident skills. Against ranged attackers it might be ok until they swim out of it? It is automatically centered on the foe so you cannot place it in front of them to double the crossing distance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real reason to cast trident 3 is the cheap cost, the chilling field, protection and quite simply it's long duration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, thanks, I've used it in game quite a bit. Trident is my new favorite underwater weapon for rev. I'll admit, I mostly use the lightning field. Tends to melt whatever is inside. Would definitely be neat if it were larger so that the light field could be used more effectively by a support build. ? > > > > > > > > > > What exactly about this field causes "whatever is inside" to "melt"? > > > > > > > > For me, it's the rapid vulnerability application (brutal bolts) in conjunction with the number of strikes. I usually hit 3, then 5, then auto if needed. Keep in mind, this is in pve (non-champion level mobs), and enemies there arent as tough as players in WvW that might have access to reflects! I also run a power build, and having nearly every shot crit helps. I'm sure it's different for support or condi builds, and I think that the field being larger would not be a bad thing at all. It has lots of potential, but it's definitely more useful for picking off enemies one or two at a time. =) > > > > > > Trident 5 gives you 22 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds. Lightning Field projectile procs 1 vulnerability for 5seconds. I'm not seeing how doing this combo "melts foes". > > > > I'm sure a lot has to do with my build, as well. The vulnerability causes the enemies to take greater damage sooner, so most normal mobs die in less than three seconds, vets in around 5. The trident already deals quite a bit of damage on its own; using the combo field simply increases my chance of applying multiple stacks of vulnerability in a short amount of time so that the enemy takes more damage sooner after engaging. Running Devastation also helps! =) > > I'm sorry you're having such trouble with it. :s I quite enjoy the trident and its combo field potential, but I suppose it's not everyone's cup of tea. I hope you can find other ways to make it useful for yourself. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I love the Trident as well. And what should I say I feel way more powerful with it than with a Spear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Justine.6351" said: > In what way is underwater useless? Maybe useless people underwater but hardly can any content be called "useless". In 2/3 of the game its either useless or doesnt exist. Basing a whole expansion around this would be VERY stupid. In WvW you do your best to AVOID water because under water combat against other players is tedious and an unbalanced mess if you are playing against a Ranger for example. It can be a nightmare because of how unbalanced their underwater downed is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Nyel.1843" said: > I love the Trident as well. And what should I say I feel way more powerful with it than with a Spear. Than with the _current_ spear? No surprise: we went from being able to spam Rapid Assault 4 times in 5 seconds to 1 attack in the same time lapse (5 with the quickness of impossible odds); is a net 75% damage loss which no buff in base damage would compensate. Than with the older spear? No way. Probably now is impossible for a Rev to kill a Druid or a Guard/Firebrand in underwater combat. Trident is a very bad weapon vs enemy players; not only does low damage but also the cast times from skills ouside auto are huge: Mesmers, Thieves, Engies and Warriors will interrupt you at will whereas Necros, Guards, Rangers and Eles will tank you and easily bruise you to death. Underwater Rev was a fossil with the damage potential very close to the HoT release, so despite having the traditional problems handling conditions that the class suffers in ground at least was able to burst enemies to pieces in seconds. Now is mostly a copycat version of _land renegade_, including 0 defenses in weapons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Buran.3796" said: > > @"Nyel.1843" said: > > I love the Trident as well. And what should I say I feel way more powerful with it than with a Spear. > > Than with the _current_ spear? No surprise: we went from being able to spam Rapid Assault 4 times in 5 seconds to 1 attack in the same time lapse (5 with the quickness of impossible odds); is a net 75% damage loss which no buff in base damage would compensate. Than with the older spear? No way. Probably now is impossible for a Rev to kill a Druid or a Guard/Firebrand in underwater combat. Trident is a very bad weapon vs enemy players; not only does low damage but also the cast times from skills ouside auto are huge: Mesmers, Thieves, Engies and Warriors will interrupt you at will whereas Necros, Guards, Rangers and Eles will tank you and easily bruise you to death. > > Underwater Rev was a fossil with the damage potential very close to the HoT release, so despite having the traditional problems handling conditions that the class suffers in ground at least was able to burst enemies to pieces in seconds. Now is mostly a copycat version of _land renegade_, including 0 defenses in weapons . Talking about PvE and talking about content <80. I had a lot more problems with Spear to fight (groups of) enemies, the Trident is super powerful. That's my experience so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Nyel.1843" said: > Talking about PvE and talking about content <80. I had a lot more problems with Spear to fight (groups of) enemies, the Trident is super powerful. That's my experience so far. What legend(s) are you using? In the past I found that even with zerk gear a couple of Mallyx's _Unyielding Anguish_ were enough to kill everything around; only veteran kraits were dangerous (and because the condis they stack, due in terms of sustain they melted as fast as everything). Ended the world maps last month and in underwater hearts each jump with UA+spear #2 leaved corpses around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 eh, trident is a fine pve weapon now. I rarely used any skills on the spear save 2, Now I use almost all of the trident skills. The spear is dead with range amputation on 1 and cd on 2. Yep, they definitely managed to make people adopt Trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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