Balance the scourge now, not when next expansion comes

[Roxanne.6140]

> @"Soggy Biscuit.9372" said:

> > @"Roxanne.6140" said:

> > > @"Awe.1096" said:

> > > 

> > > Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence

> > > /sarcasm

> > >

> >

> > comps like that usually get run over by coordinated guild groups

>

> Does coordination matter at all? Even if it's a pug, that's 19 scouges throwing down 100ish AoEs in a matter of seconds whilst corrupting your boons 24/7, running right into your face as you get perma-rooted because boon conversion negating resistance/stab without any form of diminishing returns is reasonable.

 

because boon conversion is the only thing that matters right? because other classes with skills such as winds of disenchantment are for kids in their playground, also because other damage dealing classes are clearly underperforming in their total damage output, such as damage heralds, damage weavers, clearly their damage numbers lose to the scourge on a per person basis

 

posting a picture like that doesn't mean a lot unless you can convince everyone in a non-rigged video that this group is going to win all other serious fights with serious guilds. and no, running over strays in the map doesn't count as effective

[Ragnarox.9601]

Balance:

 

Scourge aoe fields - 240 radius - everything would be fixed.

[Seffen.2875]

i think you are partly right concerning a rework on scourge.

 

But i think your proposals concerning what has to be done are completely wrong. I don't see any sense behind what you are saying. This would make scourge Kind of... useless. And gut him of what he can.

 

He Needs to Keep the selfcast of sandshade. Otherwise he can't cleanse the Team. Which is vital.

 

And i think most of the things you are saying would make him useless in pve.

 

**Why not rather rework him so he has to specialise into 1 Thing instead of being able to do 3 (barrier, booncorrupt, Condi dps) at the same time.**

 

Nourishing rot Needs to buffed to be as viable as the other two traits. Unending corruption and Desert empowerment Need to be changed into not giving corrupts and barrier on their own but rather increase the already given barrier/corrupt. Maybe double the amount of each. This would tie them to a certain not spammable skill.

 

Also i would take away the cripple from manifest sand shade. That one is just Overkill.

 

As a last increase the stacks of torment on Desert shroud and incrase it's cooldown significantly. Maybe add a 1 boon corrupt. (cd up to 45 or 60 seconds.) so this is the actual "bomb" ability.

 

So you would Keep his actual Flair, which is quite nice, but also Change him enough.

 

[Seffen.2875]

> @"Roxanne.6140" said:

> > @"Awe.1096" said:

> > 

> > Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence

> > /sarcasm

> >

>

> comps like that usually get run over by coordinated guild groups

 

Shush! don't tell them the secret formula.

[HardRider.2980]

I'm taking it they will also stop any sort of Boon sharing ability and abilities that mass create boons ... you know.. for balance sake.

[Euryon.9248]

> @"Awe.1096" said:

> 

> Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence

> /sarcasm

>

 

Everyone always complaining about the "OP Spellbreaker" not that long ago and yet...how many are in that 35-person zerg?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Scourge and Spellbreaker(Elite) need to be toned down exponentially. WvW is just not fun anymore, especially when core classes are in the state they are in when compared to these E.Specs.

[BMW.2951]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> They will do what they do I guess but be prepared for the sb hammertrain meta if they gut scourge.

 

Dude a hammer train would be so fun! Better than this current condition aids meta from Scourge.

 

ANET please nerf scourge so other classes are actually viable in team fights. K thx

[XenesisII.1540]

A lot of guilds are starting to run 3-5 spellbreakers in front of their zergs, and they're not running them as suicide bubblers as everyone did early on, they get more than enough support from firebrands and scourge shields plus their direct damage immunity to stay up and absorb a lot of damage. The only op thing to me about spellbreakers is getting up to 8s of direct damage immunity yet still do full damage during that time with some of the highest mobility in the game, where's the trade off between that?

 

I think Anet intended a certain zerg meta in first place:

Front: Spellbreakers for the bubble and absorb damage, Firebrands for support and absorb damage.

Mid: Scourge for shield support, boon corruption(especially for the spellbreakers firebrands), damage, Revenants for damage, Weaver for damage.

Everything else is long range or specialized use like pick teams.

 

But what we started with:

Too far ahead: Spellbreaker suicide bubble.

Front: Firebrands for absorb damage and support.

Mid: Scourge for shield support, boon corruption, damage.

Everything else is whatever, because there was no reason to carry anything but those two in those roles.

 

With the nerfs to Firebrand and Scourge the other classes are finding some room in groups and players are running more of them. I've definitely seen more weavers and spellbreakers running in zergs these days. I really do think Engineers should have been given the scourge shield instead, as it would have given them a place on the front lines with firebrands. I understand why scourge got the shield, but it should have been kept as personal one to act like the shroud life while engineers got the group version, they already fill the corruption and damage roles for all groups anyways. I don't think scourge should get anymore nerfs, because they are needed to fight opposing front lines.

 

[SkyShroud.2865]

scourge is the kind of class that become more effective as the total numbers get bigger

compositions will change according to numbers.

[Dralor.3701]

> @"BMW.2951" said:

> > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > They will do what they do I guess but be prepared for the sb hammertrain meta if they gut scourge.

>

> Dude a hammer train would be so fun! Better than this current condition aids meta from Scourge.

>

> ANET please nerf scourge so other classes are actually viable in team fights. K thx

 

All for nerfs so everyone is viable, let’s just not make sb unstoppable killling machines as well. Winds is kinda mandatory for any serious fight as is.

[Euryon.9248]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> A lot of guilds are starting to run 3-5 spellbreakers in front of their zergs, and they're not running them as suicide bubblers as everyone did early on, they get more than enough support from firebrands and scourge shields plus their direct damage immunity to stay up and absorb a lot of damage. The only op thing to me about spellbreakers is getting up to 8s of direct damage immunity yet still do full damage during that time with some of the highest mobility in the game, where's the trade off between that?

 

GS3 + GS5 <> "some of the highest mobility in the game"

 

No zerg SB I know runs Bull's Rush, Sword (for leap), or any other mobility-enhancing utility. Compare that to the various blinks/teleports/leaps that thieves/mesmers/rangers/eles have and tell me again how a zerg SB build (not a roaming warrior) has this high mobility that requires a tradeoff?

 

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Euryon.9248" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > A lot of guilds are starting to run 3-5 spellbreakers in front of their zergs, and they're not running them as suicide bubblers as everyone did early on, they get more than enough support from firebrands and scourge shields plus their direct damage immunity to stay up and absorb a lot of damage. The only op thing to me about spellbreakers is getting up to 8s of direct damage immunity yet still do full damage during that time with some of the highest mobility in the game, where's the trade off between that?

>

> GS3 + GS5 <> "some of the highest mobility in the game"

>

> No zerg SB I know runs Bull's Rush, Sword (for leap), or any other mobility-enhancing utility. Compare that to the various blinks/teleports/leaps that thieves/mesmers/rangers/eles have and tell me again how a zerg SB build (not a roaming warrior) has this high mobility that requires a tradeoff?

>

 

You realize there's more than zerg play right? A warrior doesn't need high mobility in a zerg fight unless they want to play suicide bubbler, which there is a lot less of these days.

[whoknocks.4935]

Today while roaming i encountered a vitality healing power condi scorge... what a damn plague, impossible to get under 75% health, plus the barriers he was impossible to kill even 2vs1. At least firebrand only survive, this garbage profession survive while dishing out crazy condi damage simply spamming.

Stability is useless and you get feared because corrupted, so they have the easiest way of interrupting healing skills than any class in the game.

Thief at least have to watch carefully to steal a stab or daze you while not on stab, scourge doesn't care because he spams, stability becomes fear and you get condi bombed regardless.

[Dralor.3701]

If you can’t 2v1 a scourge while roaming...

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Today while roaming i encountered a vitality healing power condi scorge... what a kitten plague, impossible to get under 75% health, plus the barriers he was impossible to kill even 2vs1. At least firebrand only survive, this garbage profession survive while dishing out crazy condi damage simply spamming.

> Stability is useless and you get feared because corrupted, so they have the easiest way of interrupting healing skills than any class in the game.

> Thief at least have to watch carefully to steal a stab or daze you while not on stab, scourge doesn't care because he spams, stability becomes fear and you get condi bombed regardless.

 

I think you need to reconsider roaming if you can't kill a scourge 1v1 let alone 2v1.

[Jaruselka.5943]

> @"Awe.1096" said:

> 

> Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence

> /sarcasm

>

 

That Scrapper representation seems pretty legit...lol

 

[Mangelhaft.5289]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Today while roaming i encountered a vitality healing power condi scorge... what a kitten plague, impossible to get under 75% health, plus the barriers he was impossible to kill even 2vs1. At least firebrand only survive, this garbage profession survive while dishing out crazy condi damage simply spamming.

> Stability is useless and you get feared because corrupted, so they have the easiest way of interrupting healing skills than any class in the game.

> Thief at least have to watch carefully to steal a stab or daze you while not on stab, scourge doesn't care because he spams, stability becomes fear and you get condi bombed regardless.

 

You can't build a scourge with enough healing power to make an appreciable barrier difference without gutting 1v1 offensive power; the scaling isn't there. What you fought was a Trailblazer (Power/Cond/Vit/Tough) or Celestial scourge that outplayed you with blinds and positioning.

[Euryon.9248]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"Euryon.9248" said:

> > > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > > A lot of guilds are starting to run 3-5 spellbreakers in front of their zergs, and they're not running them as suicide bubblers as everyone did early on, they get more than enough support from firebrands and scourge shields plus their direct damage immunity to stay up and absorb a lot of damage. The only op thing to me about spellbreakers is getting up to 8s of direct damage immunity yet still do full damage during that time with some of the highest mobility in the game, where's the trade off between that?

> >

> > GS3 + GS5 <> "some of the highest mobility in the game"

> >

> > No zerg SB I know runs Bull's Rush, Sword (for leap), or any other mobility-enhancing utility. Compare that to the various blinks/teleports/leaps that thieves/mesmers/rangers/eles have and tell me again how a zerg SB build (not a roaming warrior) has this high mobility that requires a tradeoff?

> >

>

> You realize there's more than zerg play right? A warrior doesn't need high mobility in a zerg fight unless they want to play suicide bubbler, which there is a lot less of these days.

 

You were specifically referring to zergs in your quote about spellbreakers, therefore that's the context I was responding to.

[fewfield.7802]

I was killed and bullied by scourge so I blame scourge. such a nice logic. Why dont you blame yourself that you are not playing well enough to deal with it ?

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Zefrost.3425" said:

 

> **5.** Desert shroud is reworked entirely; no longer inflicts physical damage, grants barrier, or inflicts torment, etc.

> Desert shroud now causes any currently active sand shades to pulse their effects and associated traits (eg. Reaper's might grants might to allies with manifest sand shade) as well as causing any currently active sand shades to pulse shroud skill 5 associated traits (eg. Active sand shades granting AOE stability with foot in the grave when using desert shroud) This means pulsing barrier near sand shades etc. etc. Traits and abilities may need to be reworded a bit to make coherent sense.

> **7.** Sand flare no longer corrupts boons into torment and cripple. Instead, this skill inflicts AOE blind near any currently active sand shades.

> **8.** Sand swell no longer corrupts boons into torment and cripple and no longer inflicts physical damage.

> **9.** Trail of anguish no longer corrupts boons into torment and cripple; simply inflicts torment and cripple. Also no longer inflicts burning or physical damage.

> **10.** Dessicate now draws in any currently active sand shades to the player character, exploding the shades and dealing devastating damage, granting life force per shade exploded.

> **11.** Serpent siphon now sends all currently active sand shades to the target area and activates all manifest sand shade and shroud skill 1 traits.

 

I like these changes the most. In my opinion, scourge should never have been given as much boon corrupt as they have. It was a bad decision and doesn't seem very well-thought out. Base necro already has more boon corrupt than every other class in the game (counting boon removals/boon strips) combined. It did NOT need more.

 

Giving necro more boon corrupts would be like if you already had a gen 1 legendary dagger that was fire-themed and then made a gen 2 legendary dagger that was also fire them-OH WAIT.

 

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Euryon.9248" said:

> You were specifically referring to zergs in your quote about spellbreakers, therefore that's the context I was responding to.

 

That was my own personal blanket opinion of spellbreakers thrown in as I didn't even go into details, because the main part of my discussion was on meta comps and why I don't think scourges need anymore nerfs which this thread is about. And while you might not run with a GS in zerg fights there are plenty of spellbreakers who still do.

 

Regardless if you take out mobility it's still pretty dumb **to me** that they can run around with that much immunity to direct damage and still do full damage, mobility makes them borderline broken in roaming, not that roaming has any balance these days anyways, but most other damage immunity skills have a trade off to them. The other classes you mentioned with more mobility also don't have a place in the meta as warriors now do again, so that's a trade off there.

[Traveller.7496]

I'm starting to see squads with 80-90% scourges. Not even a real good organized team of similar size can take them down because of the sheer number of AoE and condi.

 

Something needs to be done - it should be either damage or barriers/support, not both at the same time.

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Traveller.7496" said:

> I'm starting to see squads with 80-90% scourges. Not even a real good organized team of similar size can take them down because of the sheer number of AoE and condi.

>

> Something needs to be done - it should be either damage or barriers/support, not both at the same time.

 

also should only trigger 1 shade effect , its ridiculous to have so much aoe coverage and ontop of it with a 10 player target limit , 5 necros alone hit up to 50 targets for those who dont realize how big that little detail is

[Tammuz.7361]

I too used to play a rev and hate the scourge... then i joined the dark side and embraced the scourge!

 

you guys should try it too :)