Longbow DH trash-tier?

[mes.4607]

Kek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Arcaedus.7290]

At least in pvp scenarios, LB is almost balanced but it's definitely lacking.

 

As for changes, it's been said before but I'll say it again:

 

1. Make knockback on Deflecting Shot (LB 3) baseline. The ONLY reason people take the trait Heavy Light is for the knockback. No one cares about the stability.

2. After making Deflecting Shot Baseline, buff Heavy Light to compensate. As per original concept, it should still reward the DH for landing CCs, but it should be either something other than stability or something in addition to stability (maybe quickness?).

3. Roll over the pve/wvw changes to trueshot into pvp. It's a very mediocre skill in pvp right now and the wvw buffs have clearly not made it overpowered by any measure.

4. Misc. damage increases:

* Increase the damage/decrease cast time of Hunter's Ward. It's very situational and most often times not worth using. Even when it is worth using there is a lot of counterplay.

* Increase the damage or decrease aftercast/cast time of the auto attack

 

Longbow needs to be able to solidly stand alone as a weapon without needing to take ToF, and Heavy Light. Even when you do take that utility and trait, it's still only a mediocre weapon at best and only fits in with a specific build. Another thing worth mentioning is that it should be a tough choice that is build defining when choosing a GM trait. As it is right now, we're completely forced into one GM trait. It doesn't seem fair or proper that when playing LB without Heavy Light, it feels like an incomplete weapon (no gap openers or defensive skills unlike other ranged weapons).

 

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Coinhead.7591" said:

> Is it really so horribly bad? I often wield longbow when doing living story for example and to me longbow is often better ranged weapon than scepter because it can kill most enemies faster, even though it has lower sustained DPS. Longbow allows pretty easy and clean kills and shines in HoT maps where most enemies are glass cannon and die to Spear of Justice -> True Shot "combo".

>

> In raids the longbow sustained DPS makes it a clearly weaker than alternatives and in fractals the benefit of being ranged is usually worthless so I never use it in either of those game modes, but when playing solo on open world content id say that the longbow is pretty nice.

>

> I recorded 2+min of gameplay killing normal enemies in open world with a longbow:

>

> Does the weapon really feel like unusable trash tier to you guys?

 

lol try this build in wvw or pvp, I can oneshot you with autoattack.

[Coinhead.7591]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> lol try this build in wvw or pvp, I can oneshot you with autoattack.

 

It is a PvE build and should not be used in wvw as such. I thought this was pretty obvious, but I guess there are always few slow ones...

 

Longbow itself is pretty good in wvw roaming though. The builds usually take way more vitality and often meditations as skills. In PvP the longbow is sadly a bit weaker because longbow skill #2 has 2s longer cooldown and ~10% less damage than in wvw.

 

But sure if we meet in wvw, ill gladly violate you with a well placed Spear of Justice.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Coinhead.7591" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > lol try this build in wvw or pvp, I can oneshot you with autoattack.

>

> It is a PvE build and should not be used in wvw as such. I thought this was pretty obvious, but I guess there are always few slow ones...

>

> Longbow itself is pretty good in wvw roaming though. The builds usually take way more vitality and often meditations as skills. In PvP the longbow is sadly a bit weaker because longbow skill #2 has 2s longer cooldown and ~10% less damage than in wvw.

>

> But sure if we meet in wvw, ill gladly violate you with a well placed Spear of Justice.

 

Even in WvW, it's lacking. The meditrapper build overall is decent in roaming but it's definitely not at the top of the totem pole.

 

1. Any build or class that uses stunbreaks/stability wisely will never get hit by the ToF wombo combo. This means you lack killing power.

2. Certain classes like mesmer can slot in a lot of projectile defence or reflect either through traits or utilities without losing any cohesiveness in their build. This will effectively soft-counter you.

3. Any build or class that maintains very high protection uptime is a complete hardcounter to you. There is nothing a meditrapper guard (or any other build on guard for that matter) can do to counter perma protection.

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Coinhead.7591" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > lol try this build in wvw or pvp, I can oneshot you with autoattack.

>

> It is a PvE build and should not be used in wvw as such. I thought this was pretty obvious, but I guess there are always few slow ones...

>

> Longbow itself is pretty good in wvw roaming though. The builds usually take way more vitality and often meditations as skills. In PvP the longbow is sadly a bit weaker because longbow skill #2 has 2s longer cooldown and ~10% less damage than in wvw.

>

> But sure if we meet in wvw, ill gladly violate you with a well placed Spear of Justice.

 

What? Spear of justice? lol i just negate it with elite mantra dodge your traps put spam f1 tome and you probably are gone by now.

Never lost to DH in wvw, only Mesmers(Mirages) and Condi scourges giving me trouble. DH is free kill.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Kyarra.8912" said:

> I guess it's more like "I won't use this in fractals or raids, but OW requires different build and weapon set anyway"

 

Open world requires nothing

It can be done naked with a stick

[Kyarra.8912]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Open world requires nothing

> It can be done naked with a stick

Sorry for our worthlessness, but some noobs here DO need a build and some weapon to do OW events.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Kyarra.8912" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > Open world requires nothing

> > It can be done naked with a stick

> Sorry for our worthlessness, but some noobs here DO need a build and some weapon to do OW events.

 

This! Some off us get very little time to play do to life and shit so our skill level may not be high and find some ow content challenging

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Kyarra.8912" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > Open world requires nothing

> > It can be done naked with a stick

> Sorry for our worthlessness, but some noobs here DO need a build and some weapon to do OW events.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Kyarra.8912" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > Open world requires nothing

> > > It can be done naked with a stick

> > Sorry for our worthlessness, but some noobs here DO need a build and some weapon to do OW events.

>

> This! Some off us get very little time to play do to life and kitten so our skill level may not be high and find some ow content challenging

 

I work 90 hours a week

Do try to stay on topic guys, the support group is in general discussion

[Kyarra.8912]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Do try to stay on topic guys, the support group is in general discussion

I guess I am on topic. You are allmighty shining hero, who can do meta-events, farm Palawadan and kill champions with a stick, or barehands, or smthing. Some of us, however, cannot. What can be more "on topic"?

 

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Kyarra.8912" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > Do try to stay on topic guys, the support group is in general discussion

> I guess I am on topic. You are allmighty shining hero, who can do meta-events, farm Palawadan and kill champions with a stick, or barehands, or smthing. Some of us, however, cannot. What can be more "on topic"?

>

>

The topic at hand is does DH longbow need a buff

You on the other hand are for some reason trying to make me feel guilty about playing the game?

Maybe it's a lapse of knowledge, here's a handy link

https://www.centervention.com/conversation-skills-staying-topic/

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Oh boy so sry,good for u that u work 90 hrs,no one said u had all day to play either so not sure what ur trying to prove stating that,is it a comp? I work 95hrs been bodybuilding for over decade,have a wife bunch of animals etc lol, so what no one gives a shit! Was just stating there’s people that vary in skill or gaming aptitude in general. Oh shit and yeah buff lb haha to stay on topic!

[LetoII.3782]

See, this is why we can't have nice things

Immediately head for the victim-status high ground at the slightest hint of adversity <,<

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Knock back should be baseline for lb 3,damage increase to all skills when tethered by justice,maybe 15% lb5 for its cast time and CD should buffed in some way in pvp modes in particular. Players just stroll thru it 9 times outa ten with all there blocks and clear. It’s a fun weapon in my opinion in design and visuals just needs a boost in effectiveness

[Kyarra.8912]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> The topic at hand is does DH longbow need a buff

LB does need a buff. Maybe my English is really bad, but I see zero commenters, who disagreed with this statement. And user who made a video you parodied also agrees that LB is weak and cannot be used in hard PvE-content. He just told it is not a complete trash and still can be used in ONE type of content. Does it really bother you so much?

 

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> You on the other hand are for some reason trying to make me feel guilty about playing the game?

Really? I think it was quite opposite: you came here and mocked video, that was made by other user, and commented my words about LB being still usable in OW. I guess you wanted to remind us (make us feel guilty?) we are weaklings, while real players, who DO play this game correctly, can do anything with a stick.

 

 

[Kyarra.8912]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Knock back should be baseline for lb 3

And it should be from the start :(

 

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Kyarra.8912" said:

 

> Really? I think it was quite opposite: you came here and mocked video, that was made by other user, and commented my words about LB being still usable in OW. I guess you wanted to remind us (make us feel guilty?) we are weaklings, while real players, who DO play this game correctly, can do anything with a stick.

>

>

 

His video argued that LB is in a good place as it works in open world PvE.

My video displayed that ANYTHING works in open world PvE, therefore open world PvE functionality is not a balance metric.

 

You are making it a me vs. we for some reason? Because I quoted you I'm guessing?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Anything is viable in OW for sure but u can feel the disparity between weapons as well. Dh isn’t alone in this but for a themed weapon for an elite spec it should perform at a level that represents that and not feel ineffective compared to other weapon options.it just needs a decent dps boost and one grandmaster trait change

[Kyarra.8912]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> His video argued that LB is in a good place as it works in open world PvE.

I read his full comment and I must disagree with your point of view. He actually admitted LB is underwhelming in comparission with alternatives. BTW, as a weakling who can't do OW with a stick, I can add: LB is underwhelming in OW too. It's not a trash. But it's not a great weapon too. Author made a good use of it, but LB still lacks dmg and utility. But it's me and I am weak, you know.

 

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> You are making it a me vs. we for some reason? Because I quoted you I'm guessing?

This, and also the fact I am a person who can't make OW with a stick ) I support your cause with both hands. I was dreaming about playing DH with a bow since HoT. It's

not "me vs we". It's more like "we, normal players, ALL can do OW naked, lol", that's the point.

[Coinhead.7591]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

 

> His video argued that LB is in a good place as it works in open world PvE.

> My video displayed that ANYTHING works in open world PvE, therefore open world PvE functionality is not a balance metric.

>

 

Did it though?

 

While it is possible to complete open world content with anything it still doesn't mean that everything is efficient in open world. As a counter example I would say that it is possible to do raids in green gear. My point is that not everything is efficient and worth using in open world/living story content, but longbow is. It often has faster TTK against normal moving enemies than for example a scepter even tho its sustained dps against non-moving opponents is ~20% weaker.

 

Do I think that longbow is perfect the way it is? No. I hope that it gets the old skill #2 cooldown and damage back in PvP and that it gets the knockback trait as baseline in all formats. In my opinion a weapon doesn't need to be meta in raids/fractals for it to be good, but if that is the case then it should be good in wvw or pvp instead.

 

To be clear: Longbow is not a great weapon at the moment, but its not trash either.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Coinhead.7591" said:

 

>

> To be clear: Longbow is not a great weapon at the moment, but its not trash either.

 

If you try to go toe-to-toe with a decently played PoF spec you'll quickly come to a different conclusion.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Knock back should be baseline for lb 3,

 

Upvoted and quoting for visibility because this change needs to happen sooner rather than later. There isn't a single good reason to not have the change be implemented.

[Sevetar.6035]

> @"Coinhead.7591" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

>

> > His video argued that LB is in a good place as it works in open world PvE.

> > My video displayed that ANYTHING works in open world PvE, therefore open world PvE functionality is not a balance metric.

> >

>

> Did it though?

>

> While it is possible to complete open world content with anything it still doesn't mean that everything is efficient in open world. As a counter example I would say that it is possible to do raids in green gear. My point is that not everything is efficient and worth using in open world/living story content, but longbow is. It often has faster TTK against normal moving enemies than for example a scepter even tho its sustained dps against non-moving opponents is ~20% weaker.

>

> Do I think that longbow is perfect the way it is? No. I hope that it gets the old skill #2 cooldown and damage back in PvP and that it gets the knockback trait as baseline in all formats. In my opinion a weapon doesn't need to be meta in raids/fractals for it to be good, but if that is the case then it should be good in wvw or pvp instead.

>

> To be clear: Longbow is not a great weapon at the moment, but its not trash either.

 

To be clear: LB does not need to Meta, but currently using it will get me removed from groups. That is not me being paranoid, it is stated fact by said groups. It does not have to be Meta for them to at least make it viable. Right now, common consensus is that it is not viable. Your video is trying to argue that it is because it can do content that literally anything can do. DH LB appears to, sadly, be trash-tier because literally any other available weapon would be better.

 

My original post was about PvE and PvP. While an argument can be stated for OW being PvE, it is a VERY small part that is quickly passed once you complete the stories and unlocks. No WVW group is going to allow me to stay using LB and I was told I would be kicked if I did. I also use LB for my questing and Living Story, but I also have found LB to be a LOT less effective than any other class I group up with. Yea you can solo snipe out mobs kiting. Unfortunately, I have found all of the negative feedback about LB to be proven true in all of my experimenting and trials.

[ParaNoidAndroid.1406]

I do use Longbows for PvE, cause that's mostly what I do. I like to almost one shot things. F1+2 does the job well, if you have the right gear.

There are only two things I'd like the devs to do - add knockback on deflecting shot (without the trait) and increase the range. A longbow is only long with 1500 range.

 

And, if they decrease the reset on True Shot to 2 or 3 seconds, well, that makes it OP I think.