Souls and the Afterlife

[norbes.3620]

Not having a Major Trauma sure seems odd but maybe they were just the luckier ones Who got freed in Time. Also it's Not sure that they are aware of what they May have lost already

 

If u would get abducted and 1 of ur lungs removed u can still be alive and dont notice that u lost something the moment u wake up

But u could feel a difference later on

 

Sorry for this side question:

Would it not have been easier to let dhuum free? He would Not allow joko to exist furthermore and we could concentrate on the other tasks at Hand

 

No resurection sure is hard but the commander returned from the dead already and propably wont need to anymore cuz it would be just repeating old chapters

Afk farming necromancer would be extinct also ;)

[Narcemus.1348]

I think the big problem with keeping Dhuum free is that there would be no afterlife for anyone. All would be consumed.

 

@Konig Des Todes.2086, this guy is a troll. I feel like further discussion is unnecessary, and unhelpful.

[norbes.3620]

> @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> I think the big problem with keeping Dhuum free is that there would be no afterlife for anyone. All would be consumed.

 

Killed a god befor when it needed to be Done .. give aurene another tasty devine Snack :P

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"alcopaul.2156" said:

> "Dhuum is the original god of death, but he did not judge. He sentenced all to ultimate oblivion, regardless of innocence."

>

> HOW DO SENTENCING WORK? YOU JUDGE FIRST RIGHT?

>

> LEL

 

Not at all. There's actually a very, very long history of people being sentenced to punishment without a trial. Most often in the form of corrupt governments. Which Dhuum could be considered an extreme parallel of.

 

Being sentenced does not require a judge. A judge is a person who oversees a trial of court, a trial being a procedure to determines the guilt of a person, and gives the final verdict on the outcome of that trial. A sentence, in the sense we're talking about, would be the punishment decided for a person.

 

Now, in most civilized and not-absolutely-corrupt societies, there would always be a trial before a sentence, therefore a judge of some form is needed. But you do not need a trial before sentencing, the same way do not need to declare a reason someone should die before I stab them to death.

 

It is fully possible to convict a person without judging them, by simply ignoring trial and going straight to that decided upon punishment.

 

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> Sorry for this side question:

> Would it not have been easier to let dhuum free? He would Not allow joko to exist furthermore and we could concentrate on the other tasks at Hand

 

Oh, sure, Dhuum would kill Joko. Eventually.

 

But he would also kill every single person and eat every single soul along his way. From Jennah and Adelbern to the two little kids who steal from the LA apple merchant.

 

Joko is, by far, the lesser of two evils.

[alcopaul.2156]

trial is not necessary. an individual makes a decision for further action.

 

in other words, he will judge before sentencing.

 

judging and sentencing are inseparable.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> > @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> > I think the big problem with keeping Dhuum free is that there would be no afterlife for anyone. All would be consumed.

>

> Killed a god befor when it needed to be Done .. give aurene another tasty devine Snack :P

 

Well, both Dhuum and Balthazar are not gods anymore, their divinity was taken from them. Nitpicking aside, Dhuum seems to be unkillable rather literally. Otherwise, Grenth would have killed him rather than imprison him. Both fights against him was just to reimprison Dhuum, he's technically **still** alive.

 

At least as alive as what appears to be a sapient embodiment of pure raw magic can be.

 

Even then, how can one direct Dhuum to Joko without massive amounts of casualties? Even when we fought a real god, Joko was the lesser evil. He remains the lesser evil in the face of evil gods.

[norbes.3620]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"norbes.3620" said:

> > > @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> > > I think the big problem with keeping Dhuum free is that there would be no afterlife for anyone. All would be consumed.

> >

> > Killed a god befor when it needed to be Done .. give aurene another tasty devine Snack :P

>

> Well, both Dhuum and Balthazar are not gods anymore, their divinity was taken from them. Nitpicking aside, Dhuum seems to be unkillable rather literally. Otherwise, Grenth would have killed him rather than imprison him. Both fights against him was just to reimprison Dhuum, he's technically **still** alive.

>

> At least as alive as what appears to be a sapient embodiment of pure raw magic can be.

>

> Even then, how can one direct Dhuum to Joko without massive amounts of casualties? Even when we fought a real god, Joko was the lesser evil. He remains the lesser evil in the face of evil gods.

 

So the real question is how can we "break the shell" to make aurene able to feast on that magic and still need to Deal with joko ourselfs .. sometimes it's tough to be the hero stuff dont tend to "take care of itself"

[Narcemus.1348]

The question for me is, when you have an unkillable being like Dhuum, is there any way to free those that he has consumed? Or are they lost forever? Demi-gods have a gag reflex, right?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> The question for me is, when you have an unkillable being like Dhuum, is there any way to free those that he has consumed? Or are they lost forever? Demi-gods have a gag reflex, right?

 

Dhuum isn't a fleshy entity like the Sarab Queen and it didn't Jormag 200 years for Owl to die after being devoured. I don't know if what you got back would be as whole as you would like.

 

Theoretically you could command him to release the contents of his stomach via ritual. But while we've seen mist entities and spirits be imprisoned, only the latter have been compelled by mortal spellcasters.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> So the real question is how can we "break the shell" to make aurene able to feast on that magic and still need to Deal with joko ourselfs .. sometimes it's tough to be the hero stuff dont tend to "take care of itself"

 

Well, he doesn't seem to have a "shell" anymore, as in Hall of Chains, he's literally just energy inhabiting armor. This is probably why Dhuum is unkillable - he's somehow managed to survive the destruction of his "shell" unlike Abaddon and Balthazar.

 

> @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> The question for me is, when you have an unkillable being like Dhuum, is there any way to free those that he has consumed? Or are they lost forever? Demi-gods have a gag reflex, right?

 

This is a huge question that depends almost entirely on the nature of gods; given what we know of this nature, I would argue no and this is likely why it's complete oblivion for those Dhuum has feasted on as compared to those demons have. As already stated, during Heart of the Volcano, Taimi's Scanner says there's "no life detected" and at the end of Path of Fire, we see that Balthazar is ultimately just skin, a few bones (not even a complete skeleton), and then pure magic. Kormir is also said to have "died" to ascend into godhood (and I doubt this is referencing how in GW1, Goddess Kormir claims that the two - Kormir and Abaddon - have merged to become one being).

 

Since souls are effectively sapient energy, and gods seem to be sapient energy within a "shell" of their former selves, then being consumed by sapient energy may be a complete oblivion for souls.

 

And if the Parable of Balthazar from S3E6 holds any accuracy to fact and isn't just a fictional tale within Tyria, this line holds some insight to what happens when a god eats a soul:

 

> Balthazar folded the soul, bent it and broke it, crushed it until it was hidden inside his clasped hands. Then he opened his mouth wide, and shoved the soul in, consuming it whole.

>

> Once it was gone, Balthazar shouted to the dead, "You carried this coward when he lived. Now, I carry him, for he serves as my reminder that strength and courage are never to be taken for granted."

 

Suggesting that the soul is eternally part of the god. Perhaps even suggesting that the soul's memories and personalities meld, at least a little, into the god. Which would actually call back to Kormir's own statement about her ascension and Abaddon's survival back in Nightfall:

 

> Party leader: "Kormir?"

> Kormir: "No. Yes. _Kormir. And much more._"

> Party leader: "Abaddon?"

> Kormir: "No. _His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken._ There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day."

 

A god consuming a soul - and similarly, a god being consumed by a soul - would result in the soul's strength, memories, and will melding. The first two meld perfectly, conjoining together to become more, while one will would overpower the other, sending that other into effective oblivion.

 

This could be why we see, before fighting Dhuum, a bunch of shadowy souls bent over in agony throughout the Hall of Judgment. Dhuum seems to be breaking them, weakening them. When the fight begins, they warp into the hostile [Deathlings](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathling) - spider-shadow Nightmares. But his main goal may not be to make Nightmares, given how pathetically weak the Deathlings are, but rather weakening them so as to ensure that their will would not attempt to usurp his own. He may have merely turned them into Nightmares at that exact moment since he had "guests" to provide for.