What does Revenants need moved from Heralds to make future especs better fitting?

[narcx.3570]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > Wall of Text

> I'll note that most of your "evidence" is based on either pre-nerf data (actual World Championships), which only validates my claim. The rest is sketchy at best... Some "used" Revenant for a tournament or other... Sure condi rev was strong a few times during the whole run, that doesn't make it a meta pick.

> Revenant can easily be supplanted in all categories by a different class.

> The fact that a few people use it, doesn't mean it's good, it means a few people have been using it for a while, and they are good at it. And if those same people used a different profession they'd probably do even better.

> If you look at League of Legends the 3rd best player in NA mains 2 champions which one is in the middle of the champs leader board and the other is at the bottom, yet he's 3rd best in NA, and has 60+% win rate... Does that make those champions meta?

> Rekkles, one of the best pro-players in LoL has mained the current bottom ranked ADC, does that make that champion meta?

>

> You confuse niche plays, and strategic picks with actual meta status.

 

Comparing GW2 pvp to LoL is just.... no... Since league has somewhere around 3 billion characters to pick from, the meta more revolves around roles rather than one specific champion pick. You can pick the ADC with the lowest winrate, but as long as you're awesome at playing ADC, it honestly doesn't even matter who you picked... That game also has a much better matchmaking system that helps facilitate this, but yeah... A big part of what causes the classes that you consider meta to be meta in GW2 is due to their stackability. This makes them safer classes to play/perfect, since when the matchmaking system hard screws you, you're not really THAT bad off. It would be a different story if you could queue a specific role like you do in league, but then again that would make the queue times insane since there's such a tiny pool of players already. That would also require anet to admit that there's a "best" meta comp as far as bunkers vs +1's vs point control goes, which would never happen as they're very much about player freedom.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > Wall of Text

> > I'll note that most of your "evidence" is based on either pre-nerf data (actual World Championships), which only validates my claim. The rest is sketchy at best... Some "used" Revenant for a tournament or other... Sure condi rev was strong a few times during the whole run, that doesn't make it a meta pick.

> > Revenant can easily be supplanted in all categories by a different class.

> > The fact that a few people use it, doesn't mean it's good, it means a few people have been using it for a while, and they are good at it. And if those same people used a different profession they'd probably do even better.

> > If you look at League of Legends the 3rd best player in NA mains 2 champions which one is in the middle of the champs leader board and the other is at the bottom, yet he's 3rd best in NA, and has 60+% win rate... Does that make those champions meta?

> > Rekkles, one of the best pro-players in LoL has mained the current bottom ranked ADC, does that make that champion meta?

> >

> > You confuse niche plays, and strategic picks with actual meta status.

>

> Comparing GW2 pvp to LoL is just.... no... Since league has somewhere around 3 billion characters to pick from, the meta more revolves around roles rather than one specific champion pick. You can pick the ADC with the lowest winrate, but as long as you're awesome at playing ADC, it honestly doesn't even matter who you picked... That game also has a much better matchmaking system that helps facilitate this, but yeah... A big part of what causes the classes that you consider meta to be meta in GW2 is due to their stackability. This makes them safer classes to play/perfect, since when the matchmaking system hard screws you, you're not really THAT bad off. It would be a different story if you could queue a specific role like you do in league, but then again that would make the queue times insane since there's such a tiny pool of players already. That would also require anet to admit that there's a "best" meta comp as far as bunkers vs +1's vs point control goes, which would never happen as they're very much about player freedom.

 

Well, i'd ask if GW2 PvP is even worthy of the term, but i digress.

The meta comparison is still valid... League has 140 different champs, but actually you probably have more possible combinations of Profession+Specializations+Skills+Items than League has of Champions+Runes+Builds. And playing "ADC" isn't much different than playing a mostly ranged damage build in GW2 (like Rifle DE, P/P thief, LB Ranger, etc), extremely bursty builds are comparable to League Assassins, etc...

And the synergies and builds exist in LoL as they exist on GW2 (the stackability), for example, Xayah and Rakan are much stronger as a pair than with other champs, same thing with KogMaw+Lulu, etc.

Rekless Mains Tristana in his Ranked games, but in pro matches Tristana was never picked. Like you said he's just that good as ADC and likes Tristana. Doesn't make it a meta. Same thing here, a guy that plays really well can pick a Revenant easy and do great. Especially if there's synergy with the rest of the team, and also the factor that since it's not a very common pick people will have a harder time countering.

 

Revenant is actually getting to a better place, but for the most part it's a one-trick pony. And there's still a lot of unfinished work on the class... Denying that for the sake of e-peen and one-upmanship is extremely counter-productive.

 

[otto.5684]

Reliable access to fury and swiftness that do not require gimmicks or major damage sacrifices to obtain. Alternately, less reliance on fury to do any meaningful damage. No real alternatives to swiftness for rev mobility, unless you redesign the class as a whole.

 

Better sustainability options. Right now, infused light is only reliable heal in sPvP. Mallyx heal is good, but you must be playing condi build to even consider mallyx as a legend and corruption as a line.

 

More hypothetical, if Herald and Ventari lines switched that will work wounder for rev as a class. It would require some changes, but nothing major and will not be game breaking. It's not that the combination of herald and renegade will be strong. Staff will have to remain a core weapons and shield will become a core weapon. Devs will need to create a new weapon for Ventari. Probably something akin to guardian mace.

[ethanzephyr.7298]

This has all the makings of someone who doesn't know how to bargain. You start with an offer that's high, and are countered with a low offer, where you eventually both meet in the middle. You're shooting yourself in the foot on this one :p

 

We don't need to destroy Herald so the rest of the class can still be poor.