Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Dont make them tradable. Raiding is not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said: > Dont make them tradable. Raiding is not that hard. Could you elaborate your answer a bit? I don't understand how easiness of raids connects to tradeability of LI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless They will be worthless only after a change like this, when everyone will pay to get the achievements. The "raid selling" in this game isn't used as much as some around here want us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless > > They will be worthless only after a change like this, when everyone will pay to get the achievements. The "raid selling" in this game isn't used as much as some around here want us to believe. Not at all. Achievements should be based around beating the content. LI time gate is not a challenge, it's a time gate. Beating the time gate is nothing to be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless > > > > They will be worthless only after a change like this, when everyone will pay to get the achievements. The "raid selling" in this game isn't used as much as some around here want us to believe. > > Not at all. Achievements should be based around beating the content. LI time gate is not a challenge, it's a time gate. Beating the time gate is nothing to be proud of. This is not quite right. "Beating the timegate" actually implies a level of consistency. Everyone can get carried through the normal encounters. Getting 150/300 kills is another thing. Yes, in theory you could get carried through all them as well. But it is highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > pride > prʌɪd/ > noun > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > 1. > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless > > > > > > They will be worthless only after a change like this, when everyone will pay to get the achievements. The "raid selling" in this game isn't used as much as some around here want us to believe. > > > > Not at all. Achievements should be based around beating the content. LI time gate is not a challenge, it's a time gate. Beating the time gate is nothing to be proud of. > > This is not quite right. "Beating the timegate" actually implies a level of consistency. Everyone can get carried through the normal encounters. Getting 150/300 kills is another thing. Yes, in theory you could get carried through all them as well. But it is highly unlikely. Only if we assume buying them. But if we take into consideration LFG cheaters who fake KPs and LIs to get into groups, these people are also carried and it's common practice. Two things are a problem - game design which allows for low manning and green light for instance selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > pride > > prʌɪd/ > > noun > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > 1. > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > pride > > > prʌɪd/ > > > noun > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > 1. > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. They are probably irrelevant but also they are the point of this thread. Everyone is open to share their opinion about the matter here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless > > > > > > > > They will be worthless only after a change like this, when everyone will pay to get the achievements. The "raid selling" in this game isn't used as much as some around here want us to believe. > > > > > > Not at all. Achievements should be based around beating the content. LI time gate is not a challenge, it's a time gate. Beating the time gate is nothing to be proud of. > > > > This is not quite right. "Beating the timegate" actually implies a level of consistency. Everyone can get carried through the normal encounters. Getting 150/300 kills is another thing. Yes, in theory you could get carried through all them as well. But it is highly unlikely. > > Only if we assume buying them. But if we take into consideration LFG cheaters who fake KPs and LIs to get into groups, these people are also carried and it's common practice. Two things are a problem - game design which allows for low manning and green light for instance selling. Nah, I was taking these into account too. You can't be **too** bad and get carried that long. People will just get tired and kick you out. As for your two problems - if you make the instances so hard they literally cannot be low-manned by the top teams, then the vast majority of the groups, including all the pugs ever, will never be able to finish them. That would be a MUCH bigger problem than the ability of high-skill groups to kill the bosses using fewer players. Instance selling is another thing. Personally, I would not choose to allow it. I wonder what are ANet's motives on that particular decision. But I agree it can be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > > > pride > > > > prʌɪd/ > > > > noun > > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. > > They are probably irrelevant but also they are the point of this thread. Everyone is open to share their opinion about the matter here. The point of this thread is making LIs tradable. You should know this as you started it. Also, I'm not denying anyone the right to voice opinions, thank you for your attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > pride > > > prʌɪd/ > > > noun > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > 1. > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. Well on this we must disagree. I think feelings on matters which relate to the enjoyment of the game are of prime importance when discussing changes and development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. Worth is subjective. It's defined by us as humans. You can call it objective if you insist, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > pride > > prʌɪd/ > > noun > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > 1. > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. I fully agree with what you said here. Notice however, that, exactly as someone else buying Voice in the void title (for example) doesn't diminish your _personal achievement_ of getting it by yourself, the same would also be equally true with purchasable LIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > pride > > > prʌɪd/ > > > noun > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > 1. > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > I fully agree with what you said here. Notice however, that, exactly as someone else buying Voice in the void title (for example) doesn't diminish your _personal achievement_ of getting it by yourself, the same would also be equally true with purchasable LIs. True, but I've already argued my position on that. For me personally It's not about accomplishment or pride (I'm neither an envious person, nor do I care all to much about what others do or don't). It's about game and reward balance in this case. I simply do not believe that trade-able LI are in the best interest of the game as I have pointed out earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > pride > > > prʌɪd/ > > > noun > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > 1. > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. We're all human beings, you know? Not some fancy machines. Feelings and subjectivity matter a lot, even though the "objective view" says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > > > pride > > > > prʌɪd/ > > > > noun > > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. > > Well on this we must disagree. I think feelings on matters which relate to the enjoyment of the game are of prime importance when discussing changes and development. Except the argument has nothing to do with enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > pride > > > prʌɪd/ > > > noun > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > 1. > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > I fully agree with what you said here. Notice however, that, exactly as someone else buying Voice in the void title (for example) doesn't diminish your _personal achievement_ of getting it by yourself, the same would also be equally true with purchasable LIs. Except when you see someone with VotD you never know if it was legit or boosted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Still you have to accept such answers in a forum and it clearly shows his opinion without any doubt. Dunno, it's not very hard to see/understand that - one do not have to read between lines here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am stupid but I still don’t know how he’d feel if the changes were to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer the current implementation where things arent tradeable. I prefer achievements and rewards to clearly show players accomplishments rather than half a measure of how much gold they have acquired throughout their playtime or how much of a trader they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except since you can buy boosting for every achievement, there is no sense of pride or accomplishment in raid, or basically anything in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, you cannot dictate what other people feel, if you feel theres none, I can understand that, but thats your perspective on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, Just because a select set of people choose to buy their way in, where they have to be physically present each time btw, doesn't mean there's no sense of pride or accomplishment, let alone that any sense of gamedesign should be disregarded in favour of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game design is flawed because it allows for low-manning and therefore makes possible to boost accounts. So what you feel doesn't matter because there is no difference between your hard earned title and the boosted one. When devs design the game so that boosting is not allowed and instance selling stops being allowed, we can start the discussion about accomplishments in GW2. Until then, all the titles, achievements or unique skins are empty. > > > > > > > > > > Which is still just your opinion. Of course it doesn't matter to you what I feel when you form your opinion. What you feel on the subject matters just as much. > > > > > > > > I presented you objective reason why these achievements are worthless. If ArenaNet sold this, everyone would call it pay to win. Since they only allow player to sell instance progression, it's camouflaged, but still exists. I know it hurts your feelings in some way, but it doesn't matter what you think, what I think or what other Joe thinks. Objectively, these achievements have no value. > > > > > > Flawed reasoning based on a personal subjective position on this topic. > > > > > > First off, as mentioned you don't get to decide how or what people feel. I bet many new players feel great once they get their first character to 80. Is it special? No, hundred thousands have done so before that yet this will not diminish this personal achievement. > > > > > > Getting your first kill on a raid boss which you have been trying to kill for days will feel great to anyone who enjoys the game mode. Have thousands of others killed the raid boss before? Sure. Does it devalue this persons emotions or prevent them from feeling joyful about achieving this? No. > > > > > > I'll bet with you that a lot of people would be very happy getting their first Dhuum kill, and not only to complete the collection but mastering the actual fight. Yet thousands have completed the fight. > > > > > > > pride > > > > prʌɪd/ > > > > noun > > > > noun: pride; plural noun: prides > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction **derived from one's own achievements** , the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. > > > > > > Pride does not require to be derived from something no one else has accomplished, though that is a possibility. It can be derived from achieving something one has set out to do. > > > > > > You keep mentioning raid selling yet dodge the fact or question that this by far and large is a rare occurrence. Streamlining the LI availability would be far beyond the expensive exchange and complexity which raid selling currently is. > > > > I'm not denying anyone feelings. However, feelings are absolutely irrelevant. > > We're all human beings, you know? Not some fancy machines. Feelings and subjectivity matter a lot, even though the "objective view" says otherwise. World moves on no matter how you feel. Or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I am curious. What purpose would this serve? I mean, other than making the 'I hate raids but I demand my armor' crowd happy? Wasn't the entire point of all of these account bound currencies and collections introduced with HoT to actually make you play most of the game rather than just the most recent farm, the TP or even better your credit card? Why not just remove any account currencies or achievements then? I mean, some people do not like raids but others do not like Open World Metas, Fractals, WvW, PvP, legendary collections or any other given content. Why then? Simple, they want you to try different content you wouldn't touch otherwise, or at least not touch more than once or twice. People come for the armor but many stay for the raids and the people they meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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