SkyShroud.2865 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I didn't know ppt is done by tryhard and not because they prefer that. I didn't know significant OCX/SEA is all you need to go T2 (even with dead NA), I must be in the frog's well since I have seen servers with either not in T2 or T1. I meanthe slash means a "OR" and not "AND", the world outside really changed a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord.9074 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Screed has a selective memory. The server now is more PC and friendly than it ever was back then. It's not even toxic by my standards anymore. in response to comments by other people. Pls do not insult my intelligence in lecture me about that winning a match up means anything other than than moving up a ladder if you are below t1. If moving up a tier is important to you than by all means congratulate yourselfs.. Considering that this week is relinks you won't be placed in a tier based on if you won this matchup you will be placed in a tier based on your gliko so you are wasting your time. If you are in t1 All winning does is lock you in a tier where matchups are always the same. Sounds like a great strategy for stagnating game mode.. In my 6 years of playing the number of times my server maguuma has won a matchup is so staggering that we won so much we are tired of winning. Winning to me is winning fights and farming kids now. I'll PPT if that means it will bring more fights and a more balanced matchup. Ends need to justify the means. If the ends don't youre doing it wrong. You are just wasting yours and everyone elses time. If fights are good and a tier seems basically balanced for your server the best thing to do is actually come in 2nd not 1st. But ofcourse trying to explain that to noobys will never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Warlord.9074" said: > Screed has a selective memory. The server now is more PC and friendly than it ever was back then. It's not even toxic by my standards anymore. > > in response to comments by other people. > Pls do not insult my intelligence in lecture me about that winning a match up means anything other than than moving up a ladder if you are below t1. If moving up a tier is important to you than by all means congratulate yourselfs.. Considering that this week is relinks you won't be placed in a tier based on if you won this matchup you will be placed in a tier based on your gliko so you are wasting your time. > If you are in t1 All winning does is lock you in a tier where matchups are always the same. Sounds like a great strategy for stagnating game mode.. In my 6 years of playing the number of times my server maguuma has won a matchup is so staggering that we won so much we are tired of winning. Winning to me is winning fights and farming kids now. I'll PPT if that means it will bring more fights and a more balanced matchup. Ends need to justify the means. If the ends don't your doing it wrong. This game has a lot of older players, like myself. We aren't part of the Youtube/I just need attention generation. We played outside as kids, because that is all there was. For me, I find out what you need to do to win a game, and I try my best at it. For GW2, that is ppt, to actually "win" the matchup. Dying doesn't bother me, I don't rage quit over anything. Alternative thoughts and ideas don't offend me. I don't need a safe space (I have never met anyone my age that did need one). You are right that coming in first in T4 is nothing to brag about, but I am still trying to win in my tier, based on the design of the game, not some artificial indicator I cling to. Everyone knows that population and coverage is how you stay on top. Being in T4 does not mean that every single player in the tiers above you is better, it just means you lack the coverage/population to compete in higher tiers. However, I still try my best to play the game and help my server win each matchup. And, to win the matchup, you need the most victory points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > My personal KDR is 3-10 depending on the week. I am here to help the team get the highest score on the scoreboard I can. And yes, I have thrown myself into a camp ring 1 or 2 vs 5+ many times, ran back a few times, just long enough for a few of us to hold it till we can get numbers to repel. Those are wins. The game says at the end of the week whether we won or lost...not whether or not a team died more. Kills and deaths are irrelevant stats. > I have been on TC since launch, and wvw is about all I do (I finish diamond on multiple accounts per week most weeks). KDR is not a "skill" stat. Most of the time it is a "number of players on tag" stat. if you always have more players, you will always have a higher KDR (thanks to downstate, blob can res itself). > A really good example is Saturday morning in SMC. TC had smc at T3. The first half of that skirmish TC was at 1.96, Mag was at 1.03. We had more people. > The end of that skirmish TC had a 1.21 and Mag had a 1.29. About equal numbers at that point. Numbers win fights. And yes, I have seen Mag field a 10 man comp, tons of sustain and CC, while 15 randoms throw themselves over and over at it...that was last night at Valley, while 4 of us sat on the wall making commentary about how the Zap Brannigan approach wasn't going to work. It is what it is. The winner is still determined by the scoreboard (victory points). Lol mk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > I didn't know ppt is done by tryhard and not because they prefer that. Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there or attacking stuff to get a fight. I'm talking about the kind of players who will spend their entire playtime every single day just trying to flip stuff instead of fight people. The kind of players who will hop maps if they think there's no one defending stuff there. Those are the PPT tryhards and they are the kind of players who get ridiculed on Mag until they either stop or transfer and for good reason imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I will take back what I said earlier about 15 randoms throwing themselves at the same 10 man comp. That same comp is back , has been for an hour, with 15 this time, and they are no clip walking through walls, teleporting places where there is no valid path, fighting from inside walls, you name it. Several of them are plat rank, and it's gonna take me a long time to upload all this crap to submit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Report them all please. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/351/how-to-report-cheaters-or-exploiters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator.3589 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 IF there are cheaters, by all means report them. I for one would certainly love for them all to be perma-banned. Using a hack to win isn't winning. That being said, WTF is winning? You keep carrying on about the scoreboard, Ubi, but what is winning? What do you get for your precious little PPT game and dodging the evil Mag "blob" (we've barely even queued EBG at all this weekend) while you try to ninja empty structures? Do you go to sleep at night chortling about the brilliant design of pressing 1 at a door and doing a couple of DPS rotations on a champion mob at the top of the stairs? It takes all kinds, I guess, but IMO, fighting well and winning fights with approximately even numbers is its own reward, and is certainly more fun than worrying about some meaningless and arbitrary score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > Edit: if it makes you feel better, I don't think TC has ever won. But, we play to win our matchup every week as best we can because that is how the game was designed. > > > > > > Gate of Madness & Crystal Desert > > > Kills: 7,134 > > > Deaths: 11,178 > > > Ratio: 0.64 > > > Ehmry Bay & Tarnished Coast > > > Kills: 10,660 > > > Deaths: 16,804 > > > Ratio: 0.63 > > > Maguuma > > > Kills: 16,242 > > > Deaths: 7,041 > > > Ratio: 2.31 > > > > > > Does this feel like a win to you? > > > > Every major sport in existence...person with the highest score on the scoreboard at the end of the game wins. > > It doesn't matter if you have 1000 yards rushing, if the other team scores more points, has a higher score on the board, they win. > > This isn't pvp. > > > > Anet designed the game, and victory points is the scoreboard that determines who wins each week. > > TC 117 > > CD 92 > > Mag 79 > > > > Yes, we are winning this matchup. It is the way the game is designed. Nothing you say will change the rules of the game the way Anet designed it to be. We constantly throw bodies to their deaths to try to contest, knowing it means our kills/deaths ratio is gonna suck. But the scoreboard is what it is. > > I will point out that "winning" T4 is nothing to brag about, but we are actually trying to win the game the way it was designed every week. Past few months alone we have gone from T4 to T1 and back down again. It is what it is. > > But does it feel like a win if you're getting farmed like mobs whenever you actually have to fight? Is that PPT win really worth it to you? Only Mag would consider using 25 v 5 a "fight" :lol: But I could believe kill death ratio, I have lost count the amount of times I've killed myself trying to fight mag players right outside their gates while they have people on cannons or AC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > Only Mag would consider using 25 v 5 a "fight" :lol: If you honestly feel like you're that outnumbered in every single fight you're ever in then that's an issue with your server or your rotations not with your opponent. > But I could believe kill death ratio, I have lost count the amount of times I've killed myself trying to fight mag players right outside their gates while they have people on cannons or AC's. Yeah I'm sure all 16k kills were from singles running into cannons. More likely the TC carebear hordes getting farmed as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 What business does a TC player have complaining about others using siege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > I didn't know ppt is done by tryhard and not because they prefer that. > > Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there or attacking stuff to get a fight. I'm talking about the kind of players who will spend their entire playtime every single day just trying to flip stuff instead of fight people. The kind of players who will hop maps if they think there's no one defending stuff there. Those are the PPT tryhards and they are the kind of players who get ridiculed on Mag until they either stop or transfer and for good reason imo. I didn't know not playing the way you want to play is tryhard. The world sure change a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber.3719 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 obviously mag is a T1 server just tanking ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > I didn't know ppt is done by tryhard and not because they prefer that. > > > > Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there or attacking stuff to get a fight. I'm talking about the kind of players who will spend their entire playtime every single day just trying to flip stuff instead of fight people. The kind of players who will hop maps if they think there's no one defending stuff there. Those are the PPT tryhards and they are the kind of players who get ridiculed on Mag until they either stop or transfer and for good reason imo. > > I didn't know not playing the way you want to play is tryhard. The world sure change a lot. Well now you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage.7145 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 There is absolutely no reason to play this game for Mag PvP players, like, if i tag up right now i would face fuck anything TC or DB or basically any other blob any server in the game have with a 50 man blob, ur zerg will come back 1 time get fucked again, by the third time ur zerg comes back u will have half the numbers u had originally, so your commander will rage quit, then your whole 60 man blob will just sit on arrowcarts, this means i will need to fight a 60 man blob sitting on Arrow carts trebs mortars and catapults for 3 or 4 hours until u take all your T3 keeps and spwn camp u for a bit make u sad, then there will be absolutely no fight for the rest of the day. The only real way u get to get fights nowadays is by letting the enemy win that way even if they get shit on in fights they still think they are winning and keep coming to feed bags. WvW design is god awful does not promote fights whatsoever so all the fighters who played this game on NA servers are long gone, all that is left is clubbing seals out of boredom from time to time. So lets see tagging up will reward me with: 1. 3x zerg vs zerg fights 2. 4 hours of fighting siege monkeys on walls 3. no fights for the rest of the day and spwn camp u guys in EBG does not count as a fight Basically tagging up (or playing WvW) is 100% pointless since even if u win, u lose, might aswell just lose, simply dont care, play the game for a bit whenever there is some action (which is basically never btw) and wait for a well designed PvP MMORPG game to release at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Doom.4380 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > I didn't know ppt is done by tryhard and not because they prefer that. > > > > > > Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there or attacking stuff to get a fight. I'm talking about the kind of players who will spend their entire playtime every single day just trying to flip stuff instead of fight people. The kind of players who will hop maps if they think there's no one defending stuff there. Those are the PPT tryhards and they are the kind of players who get ridiculed on Mag until they either stop or transfer and for good reason imo. > > > > I didn't know not playing the way you want to play is tryhard. The world sure change a lot. > > Well now you know. When, how and why did "trying hard" become a bad thing? As mentioned above, not everyone playing is a teenager. Not to mention that, even when I was a teenager, which was in the 1970s, trying hard was something generally encouraged and lauded. As for all the arguments about the score - it's the score. You can twist it any you want but it's there. KDR is a _kind_ of score, too, but it's not THE score. It's more akin to a statistic. Whether you care about the score or believe winning means anything or even that there's anything to be won is a subjective view. Regardless, the score is the score is the score. Until and unless ANet change the scorekeeping system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Tiny Doom.4380" said: > When, how and why did "trying hard" become a bad thing? As mentioned above, not everyone playing is a teenager. Not to mention that, even when I was a teenager, which was in the 1970s, trying hard was something generally encouraged and lauded. > > As for all the arguments about the score - it's the score. You can twist it any you want but it's there. KDR is a _kind_ of score, too, but it's not THE score. It's more akin to a statistic. Whether you care about the score or believe winning means anything or even that there's anything to be won is a subjective view. Regardless, the score is the score is the score. Until and unless ANet change the scorekeeping system. Depends on what they're trying hard to do. I don't have any respect for people who try hard to be good at PPT. Being good at PPT ultimately means prioritizing objectives over fights whenever given the choice and that type of behavior is disgusting to me and it always has been. The score is the score but I don't care about the score because I have no control over the score. I have control over how I play when I'm online and so I care about winning fights, not winning matchups. People who worry about the score are worrying about something that they can't control, and taking pride in something that they likely only very minimally influenced. People can play however they want but if they transfer to Mag and tryhard at PPT and avoid fights they're going to be mocked and harassed endlessly until they either change their ways or leave the server. Unless they happen to be Xushin because everyone loves Xushin. In this way the culture of Mag filters out the players who don't fit and attracts the players who do. Unfortunately this game has gotten to the point on NA where many of the people left playing the game are some degree of PPT tryhard. But this is the natural cycle of online games in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Tiny Doom.4380" said: > > > When, how and why did "trying hard" become a bad thing? As mentioned above, not everyone playing is a teenager. Not to mention that, even when I was a teenager, which was in the 1970s, trying hard was something generally encouraged and lauded. > > > > As for all the arguments about the score - it's the score. You can twist it any you want but it's there. KDR is a _kind_ of score, too, but it's not THE score. It's more akin to a statistic. Whether you care about the score or believe winning means anything or even that there's anything to be won is a subjective view. Regardless, the score is the score is the score. Until and unless ANet change the scorekeeping system. > > Depends on what they're trying hard to do. I don't have any respect for people who try hard to be good at PPT. Being good at PPT ultimately means prioritizing objectives over fights whenever given the choice and that type of behavior is disgusting to me and it always has been. > > The score is the score but I don't care about the score because I have no control over the score. I have control over how I play when I'm online and so I care about winning fights, not winning matchups. People who worry about the score are worrying about something that they can't control, and taking pride in something that they likely only very minimally influenced. > > People can play however they want but if they transfer to Mag and tryhard at PPT and avoid fights they're going to be mocked and harassed endlessly until they either change their ways or leave the server. Unless they happen to be Xushin because everyone loves Xushin. In this way the culture of Mag filters out the players who don't fit and attracts the players who do. Unfortunately this game has gotten to the point on NA where many of the people left playing the game are some degree of PPT tryhard. But this is the natural cycle of online games in my experience. But we prioritize objectives by fighting to hold them, and fighting to take them. It's the design of the game. We aren't being "weird" or "hiding", we are literally just playing the game by design. And, you do have "control over the score". The same way every other player does. Anet seems to have used DAoC as a loose blueprint for wvw. in DAoC, blobs went after structures, havocs roamed only looking for other havocs. Solos, mostly ran around looking for other solos. Although, at the end, solos most stood around bridges dueling. Most blobs would just ignore the havocs that went by because they did different things. Granted, it was one map and f'ing huge by comparison, but there was always a fight to be had for each play style. The game was about controlling territory. Not for loot, but for server pride. TC still does that. I can't tell you how many hundreds of people I've played with on TC since launch, and nearly all of us played DAoC at one point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxof.8752 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 ... if you ever feel the game become bored and too easy to win, try create fun for yourself, in this case, transfer to the lowest server, and try to win outnumber fights the hard way, winning 1-2 wipes out of 10 would be more fun and adrenaline rush than ktrain/spawn camp enemy if that made you bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panicbutton.9426 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Reading this thread is like watching American politics, it's totally polarised and there's no way on earth one side is going to persuade the other that their attitude is wrong. In every WvW or RvR or open world PvP game I've ever played (and I have played most of them and lots of them competitively) there's always a group who prefer just killing the opposition and live for 'gud fights' and there's always a group who prefer playing for objectives/a strategic win. This is a fact of life in these games. Sitting and pontificating about how the other gameplay style is wrong is just a fools errand and a waste of your breath (typing). Get over it, not everyone in these games likes to play your way. There is always ebb and flow of population; there are always periods of time when 'gud fights' are more prevalent and always periods of time when 'objectives and winning' is more prevalent. There are also always groups who make a name for themselves doing one thing or the other, usually they end up on either side of the philosophical divide throwing word bombs at each other on a forum. The most successful groups in these kind of games recognise there is a time and place for both gameplay styles - EVEN if they favor one mode over the other. What is an immutable truth is that shouting on a forum about how you'd like the game to be designed your way or that you want everyone else to play your way is totally and utterly pointless. Reading this thread it's like a bunch of you have zero clue about the game you're playing and the type of people you're playing it with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > But we prioritize objectives by fighting to hold them, and fighting to take them. It's the design of the game. Well that's the difference in culture because when I play I prioritize the fighting and use the lure of objectives as staging grounds for the fights. The objectives themselves are generally irrelevant to me as it ultimately makes no difference whether I take, keep or lose something. All that matters to me is killing as many players as possible before I log off. This is also consistent with the design of the game. >We aren't being "weird" or "hiding", we are literally just playing the game by design. That's an excuse. You're not being forced to play that way you're choosing to. You don't have to do what the devs intend you can play the game any way you want to. You personally choose to focus on objectives and not on the outcome of the fights and to play on a server with a bunch of like minded people. Own your decisions don't hide behind "playing as intended." >And, you do have "control over the score". No I don't. Nothing I personally do is ever going to make an impact on the outcome of the matchup. >The same way every other player does. Which is to say almost none unless they're playing offprime. Those guys have an immense impact on the score. > Anet seems to have used DAoC as a loose blueprint for wvw. in DAoC, blobs went after structures, havocs roamed only looking for other havocs. Solos, mostly ran around looking for other solos. Although, at the end, solos most stood around bridges dueling. Most blobs would just ignore the havocs that went by because they did different things. Granted, it was one map and kitten huge by comparison, but there was always a fight to be had for each play style. The game was about controlling territory. Not for loot, but for server pride. TC still does that. I can't tell you how many hundreds of people I've played with on TC since launch, and nearly all of us played DAoC at one point in time. I didn't play DAoC, my first MMO was Aion and the culture in Aion was all about fighting other players and the guys who cared about the keeps were considered total losers and mocked endlessly. Server pride wasn't really a thing at least on my server it was all about how good your guild was at killing other players. Siege would have been considered utterly disgraceful because it would have been like admitting you couldn't win the fight. So I guess it's not surprising to see such a culture clash in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yeah, DAoC really only had rams and oil. And you had to carry rams on you, and they encumbered you. There wasn't any "siege" other than that. You also had to go through the door to get in, but assassin classes (and minstrel) and a couple melee classes could climb walls and get in to the inner to stalk people. Guards were on super-superspeed and crack and hit like the Hulk, which made it risky, but fun. Anet missed the mark on how they handled siege in my opinion, not to mention wall height. Most of the fights were ground to wall, like we have (without the huge disparity), and the huge battle was always at Lord's room, which was about the size of a small bedroom. 5 or 10 people could hold a zerg at bay, until the "world" turned. The game's day and night cycle was cool, but the sun and moon didn't rotate...the map did. And so the blob could fight from outside on the stairs until the map "turned". Players would still be in the same place, but the structure would "turn" to match the time of day. Which meant, the blob would be inside lord's room with you when the turning happened. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 DAOC also wasn't about points scoring, because it was always fighting the same 2 sides on the same server, you fought to get realm ranks and relics. In gw2 they have entire servers in matchups and needed something to determine winners to determine rankings(glicko) to determine matchups. It's too bad the meaning of being number one was broken on the very first day of wvw when we all saw that coverage won you the match. It took a couple years for some of us to break out of that illusion because of "server pride", which was also broken over time because of HoT changes. I mean it's a pvp game mode and it uses scoring to determine winners, we should be doing both. What I don't like is people that hardcore ppt, they'll run into a lords room while a zerg is on their back without fighting them off properly, they just want the cap, or when you see guys hardcore on siege hitting 2 on the cata while their zerg is getting wiped behind them, "hold on guys I'll get this wall down before you die!". People need to get better in wvw by learning to properly fight, be ready to fight when it comes, learn your class, react properly(turning tail to run to the nearest tower so that half your tail gets wiped facing the wrong way is not reacting properly). I'm actually surprised no one has suggested to take out pvp in wvw for a week event at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator.3589 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 PPK only, no PPT for a week. Combine it with no structure upgrades so people can't hide behind walls/siege for hours and hours. Let's see which servers can really bring the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > What business does a TC player have complaining about others using siege Probably about as much as an EU player defending an NA server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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