Suggestion - The Beetle mount Endurance Bar needs some adjustment.

[Brosef.7852]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> many maps are simply not good enough for the beetle. any clutter or tight enviroment and you are better off picking rappy or jaqle.

 

Whats the point in limiting your options for what mounts you can use? At the current state. you. You have very little opportunity to gain speed without using the booster. Making it a very important mechanic to even work. Every mount works immediately once its mounted, except the beetle. Where you have to wait for the endurance bar to fill before you can even use it.

 

Your effectively advocating turning the beetle mount into the oakheart essence. A cool feature limited to a couple of maps.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> I think too many people is trying to use the beetle as a main mount. not getting its only meant to be situational. Already seen plenty of people asking if its making raptor obsolete.

 

That's what I thought initially, but after playing around with it for a day it's pretty clear that it's not just niche, it's actually pretty useless because of these issues. It's gone past "niche" to "pointless". And that's really something that should be addressed, because it's a really fun mount to use...as long as you don't mind waiting 10 seconds to actually use it!

 

Others have pointed out some very good reasons why it will never overlap raptor/jackal. The most obvious reason being that it can't jump and therefore is only useful on flat ground. But the engage is another reason.

 

As to how to fix it? We've also seen some great ideas there. I really like the idea of giving it a 3-stage endurance bar like jackal. It would require 3 boosts to get up to full speed, which would still make it slower to get going over short distances than jackal or raptor but nowhere near as annoying as it is now.

[Blackwaltz.7156]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > Another idea.

> > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

>

> You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

 

You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

[LucianDK.8615]

Personally Ive stopped using the beetle, currently little more than a novelty mount. Needs significant revision to be useable.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > Another idea.

> > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> >

> > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

>

> You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

 

So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

 

Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

[Brosef.7852]

Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in? Every mount is usable in any area. Except maybe the skimmer because made with water in mind. But even the skimmer allows you to avoid obstacles and enemies. Making it useful on maps even without water. What is the beetle good for? Traveling long distances? Every map has way points especially in main tyria where the mount has the easiest time getting up to speed. making that pointless. Most HOT maps including living world season 3 are either to vertical or to many obstacles to even go fast. They seriously gave us a mount we can use in like 3 areas. That is a bad design choice and they should fix it. Races are dumb and aalmost no one cares about them. It doesn't make sense to ruin a mount to balance it for content no one plays.

 

 

[Brosef.7852]

I want to see the other side of the balance issue. We need to increase the speed of the bunny to make it more balanced in races.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Brosef.7852" said:

> Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

 

Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

 

 

 

 

[Brosef.7852]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

>

> Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

>

>

>

>

 

I Dont think you understood what I meant. Which is my fault. In almost all of these maps. Its more effective to either use waypoints or another mount. I guess a better question would be. Where would the beetle mount be an effective way of travel? Its a fun mount, Just not a very useful one.

 

Edit- Wait i Did say useful. Being able to move around doesn't make it useful. Especially when its harder to traverse on the beetle than most of the other mounts

 

 

 

 

[Brosef.7852]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Personally Ive stopped using the beetle, currently little more than a novelty mount. Needs significant revision to be useable.

 

I think he sums it up perfectly what my problem is with it.

[Zephyr.5382]

I see it being useful (albeit marginally so) on a fresh, core-Tyria map whose waypoints have yet to be discovered.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

> >

> > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> Where would the beetle mount be an effective way of travel? Its a fun mount, Just not a very useful one.

Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

 

Are you going to say "Where is Beetle the **most** effective way to travel" next? Because if it is, beetle doesn't need to be the most optimal mount to travel everywhere in the world to be effective.

 

[Brosef.7852]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > > Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

> > >

> > > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> > Where would the beetle mount be an effective way of travel? Its a fun mount, Just not a very useful one.

> Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

>

 

I just think you and I have a very different idea of what useful means. A bunch of people have already list their issues with it, with different posts.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > many maps are simply not good enough for the beetle. any clutter or tight enviroment and you are better off picking rappy or jaqle.

>

> Whats the point in limiting your options for what mounts you can use? At the current state. you. You have very little opportunity to gain speed without using the booster. Making it a very important mechanic to even work. Every mount works immediately once its mounted, except the beetle. Where you have to wait for the endurance bar to fill before you can even use it.

>

> Your effectively advocating turning the beetle mount into the oakheart essence. A cool feature limited to a couple of maps.

 

It's called balance. Balance is not always fun but it is still necessary to make a good product.

 

Having full endurance on beetle when mounting would not only break the entire balance between mounts (and as mentioned make raptor and to some extent Skimmer) obsolete. It would also cause issues with both map design as well as movement and content design.

 

Yes we all get it, you want to rocket around the map asap and just zoom zoom zoom everywhere. Now once you pass that initial urge take a moment and think about how this would affect both content and map design as well as mount viability.

 

If you still can't see the issue, you are not trying hard enough and/or not putting a lot of thought into it. At best, and that's a very big maybe, they could give it half its endurance bar when you initially mount. Yet even that could cause issues.

[Brosef.7852]

I think your right, it should be balanced. I think a good idea, which someone else pointed out. Would be to adjust the endurance bar either be divided into sections or increase the rate that the bar refreshes, At the current state, it sucks.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > > > Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

> > > >

> > > > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> > > Where would the beetle mount be an effective way of travel? Its a fun mount, Just not a very useful one.

> > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> >

>

> I just think you and I have a very different idea of what useful means. A bunch of people have already list their issues with it, with different posts.

 

> @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > @"Brosef.7852" said:

> > > > > Can you even give me 5 maps the beetle is even useful in?

> > > >

> > > > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> > > Where would the beetle mount be an effective way of travel? Its a fun mount, Just not a very useful one.

> > Desert Highland, Crystal Oasis, Elon Riverlands, Vabbi, The Desolation, Domain of Istan, Auric Basin, The Silverwastes, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, Straits of Devastation(You can roll around the south path), Frostgorge Sound, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Fields of Ruin, Lornar's Pass, Gendarran Fields, Snowden Drifts, Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Wayfarer Foothills, Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest.

> >

>

> I just think you and I have a very different idea of what useful means.

 

The difference is that beetles are useful in those maps, and you refuse to acknowledge that it is true.

 

> A bunch of people have already list their issues with it, with different posts.

 

A bunch of people have issue with it, but those issues balanced around the fact that the other mounts don't have the speed that lets me zoom to the other side of the map really fast. Griffon does let me zoom across the map, but I have to find a tall building first, and that takes more time than standing still for 10 seconds.

 

Okay, let say that beetle has no endurance cooldown. Raptor and Jackal are now reduced to niche uses such as leaping across gaps and sand portal. Beetles become the best mount to use and all future mounts will have to speedcreep up to the beetle or better otherwise they will be useless niche mounts.

[Blackwaltz.7156]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > Another idea.

> > > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> > >

> > > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

> >

> > You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> > You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> > The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> > It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> > For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

>

> So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

>

> Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

 

Nowhere I mention I want the Roller Beetle as main mount. That would be the griffon.

Also, do not forget how groundbreaking a mount is by itself. The bunny hops so far up its gamebreaking by itself, the raptor leaps such long distances (obsolete mostly by griffon), the manta ray makes you go crazy fast over water.

The roller beetle, even starting with full endurance, would still suck at: leaping, rocky terrain, water, corridors or narrow paths.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > Another idea.

> > > > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> > > >

> > > > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

> > >

> > > You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> > > You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> > > The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> > > It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> > > For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

> >

> > So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

> >

> > Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

>

> Nowhere I mention I want the Roller Beetle as main mount. That would be the griffon.

 

It doesn't matter what you mention or didn't mention. What will happen with beetles having full endurance when mounted is that it will replace Jackals and Raptors.

 

> Also, do not forget how groundbreaking a mount is by itself. The bunny hops so far up its gamebreaking by itself, the raptor leaps such long distances (obsolete mostly by griffon), the manta ray makes you go crazy fast over water.

 

And beetles with no endurance would make all of them useless.

 

> The roller beetle, even starting with full endurance, would still suck at: leaping, rocky terrain, water, corridors or narrow paths.

 

and thus reducing the other mounts as niche.

[Brosef.7852]

If the mounts aren't niches now. They aren't going to be after they changed the beetle. Unless they reduced them to very specific locations. Which they haven't and will not.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > > Another idea.

> > > > > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > > > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> > > > >

> > > > > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

> > > >

> > > > You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> > > > You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> > > > The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> > > > It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> > > > For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

> > >

> > > So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

> > >

> > > Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

> >

> > Nowhere I mention I want the Roller Beetle as main mount. That would be the griffon.

>

> It doesn't matter what you mention or didn't mention. What will happen with beetles having full endurance when mounted is that it will replace Jackals and Raptors.

>

> > Also, do not forget how groundbreaking a mount is by itself. The bunny hops so far up its gamebreaking by itself, the raptor leaps such long distances (obsolete mostly by griffon), the manta ray makes you go crazy fast over water.

>

> And beetles with no endurance would make all of them useless.

>

> > The roller beetle, even starting with full endurance, would still suck at: leaping, rocky terrain, water, corridors or narrow paths.

>

> and thus reducing the other mounts as niche.

 

Griffon makes raptor obsolete? Really? I'm sorry, but that's an objectively false claim. The raptor is clearly faster over short distances and over any terrain where the griffon's superior ability to cover more vertical terrain (e.g. stepped cliffs) doesn't come into play. The raptor also has arguably the most useful engage ability, while the griffon's might as well not exist. Thus, in practice, players with access to both end up using both on a regular basis.

 

If you wanted to talk about the worst overlap (prior to the beetle), jackal/raptor should receive mention before griffon/raptor. Even so, the jackal has a uniquely defensive engage. Its endurance bar also makes it significantly better than the raptor at evading through high mob density areas. It also has far better control of its distance-covering ability, allowing it to cover multiple short gaps better than the raptor can as well as the ability to leap off of cliffs and around corners better than the raptor can.

 

Now, on to the beetle. If you want to talk overlap, why are we not talking about how the beetle is overlapped by every other mount? Yeah, it can move faster than all but the griffon, and the griffon's max speed boost is far more limited by terrain than even the beetle. However, the beetle CAN'T JUMP! It also has no lower speed boost option such as the griffon has. Combined with its other limitations (looooong charge up, susceptibility to speed loss going uphill, no access to evade), its niche is so small as to be non-existent.

 

The question you should be asking yourself is why the beetle is overlapped in nearly every type of terrain, even the sort that should be conducive to using the beetle.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > > > Another idea.

> > > > > > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > > > > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

> > > > >

> > > > > You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> > > > > You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> > > > > The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> > > > > It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> > > > > For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

> > > >

> > > > So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

> > > >

> > > > Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

> > >

> > > Nowhere I mention I want the Roller Beetle as main mount. That would be the griffon.

> >

> > It doesn't matter what you mention or didn't mention. What will happen with beetles having full endurance when mounted is that it will replace Jackals and Raptors.

> >

> > > Also, do not forget how groundbreaking a mount is by itself. The bunny hops so far up its gamebreaking by itself, the raptor leaps such long distances (obsolete mostly by griffon), the manta ray makes you go crazy fast over water.

> >

> > And beetles with no endurance would make all of them useless.

> >

> > > The roller beetle, even starting with full endurance, would still suck at: leaping, rocky terrain, water, corridors or narrow paths.

> >

> > and thus reducing the other mounts as niche.

>

> Griffon makes raptor obsolete? Really? I'm sorry, but that's an objectively false claim. The raptor is clearly faster over short distances and over any terrain where the griffon's superior ability to cover more vertical terrain (e.g. stepped cliffs) doesn't come into play. The raptor also has arguably the most useful engage ability, while the griffon's might as well not exist. Thus, in practice, players with access to both end up using both on a regular basis.

>

 

Can you tell me where I say griffon makes raptor obsolete? The other person said it, not me. I also agree that griffon doesn't make raptor obsolete because they need a high terrain to function at max speed.

 

> Now, on to the beetle. If you want to talk overlap, why are we not talking about how the beetle is overlapped by every other mount? Yeah, it can move faster than all but the griffon, and the griffon's max speed boost is far more limited by terrain than even the beetle. However, the beetle CAN'T JUMP! It also has no lower speed boost option such as the griffon has. Combined with its other limitations (looooong charge up, susceptibility to speed loss going uphill, no access to evade), its niche is so small as to be non-existent.

 

The beetle can jump. You have to set up keybinds so that your accelerate key is not the jump key.

 

While beetles have some downsides, it is balanced around the fact that Beetle has super fast speed that makes Sonic jealous, get a speed increase going downhill, has the ability to get back endurance when flying through the air, and has speed so fast that enemies can't attack more than once even **if** they could manage to land a hit.

 

> The question you should be asking yourself is why the beetle is overlapped in nearly every type of terrain, even the sort that should be conducive to using the beetle.

 

Except, beetles are not overlapped in every type of terrain except tiny corridors, underwater maps, and vertical maps.

[Umut.5471]

I think it should at least start as half-full. The wait time is annoying and kills the fun of this mount.

[Blackwaltz.7156]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Blackwaltz.7156" said:

> > > > > > > > Another idea.

> > > > > > > > Since last mastery trait is endurance-oriented, add the following effect to it: "Mastery over the beetle riding allows you to start with full endurance when mounting up."

> > > > > > > > Problem solved. Band aid though, not full fix to the core issues of the mount, but it would help keep it's niche (straight flat grounds or ramps) better. Meanwhile Jackal and Raptor leap like crazy and could be faster in certain terrains.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You solved one problem and you make more problems. Why should I use raptor or Jackal now?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You would use the raptor for the reason it was designed, leaping over chasms, but yea leaping overall.

> > > > > > You would use the jackal for the reason it was designed, going into sand portals (shortcuts) and its general maneuverability and teleports.

> > > > > > The beetle is meant for speed- but only on FLAT terrain or ramps! It's useless anywhere else - or hard to use at least.

> > > > > > It feels so bad for few seconds after mounting to go at the speed of what feels like slower than walking.

> > > > > > For as I see it, this would be a QoL upgrade.

> > > > >

> > > > > So what you are suggesting is that you want Raptors and Jackals to be used as niches only, while Rollerbeetles are to be used as a main mount. Frankly, I disagree with that suggestion because it will make future mounts either useless or the mounts have to keep up with the speedcreep.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rollerbeetles are fine as it is because they are balanced compared to other mounts.

> > > >

> > > > Nowhere I mention I want the Roller Beetle as main mount. That would be the griffon.

> > >

> > > It doesn't matter what you mention or didn't mention. What will happen with beetles having full endurance when mounted is that it will replace Jackals and Raptors.

> > >

> > > > Also, do not forget how groundbreaking a mount is by itself. The bunny hops so far up its gamebreaking by itself, the raptor leaps such long distances (obsolete mostly by griffon), the manta ray makes you go crazy fast over water.

> > >

> > > And beetles with no endurance would make all of them useless.

> > >

> > > > The roller beetle, even starting with full endurance, would still suck at: leaping, rocky terrain, water, corridors or narrow paths.

> > >

> > > and thus reducing the other mounts as niche.

> >

> > Griffon makes raptor obsolete? Really? I'm sorry, but that's an objectively false claim. The raptor is clearly faster over short distances and over any terrain where the griffon's superior ability to cover more vertical terrain (e.g. stepped cliffs) doesn't come into play. The raptor also has arguably the most useful engage ability, while the griffon's might as well not exist. Thus, in practice, players with access to both end up using both on a regular basis.

> >

>

> Can you tell me where I say griffon makes raptor obsolete? The other person said it, not me. I also agree that griffon doesn't make raptor obsolete because they need a high terrain to function at max speed.

>

> > Now, on to the beetle. If you want to talk overlap, why are we not talking about how the beetle is overlapped by every other mount? Yeah, it can move faster than all but the griffon, and the griffon's max speed boost is far more limited by terrain than even the beetle. However, the beetle CAN'T JUMP! It also has no lower speed boost option such as the griffon has. Combined with its other limitations (looooong charge up, susceptibility to speed loss going uphill, no access to evade), its niche is so small as to be non-existent.

>

> The beetle can jump. You have to set up keybinds so that your accelerate key is not the jump key.

>

> While beetles have some downsides, it is balanced around the fact that Beetle has super fast speed that makes Sonic jealous, get a speed increase going downhill, has the ability to get back endurance when flying through the air, and has speed so fast that enemies can't attack more than once even **if** they could manage to land a hit.

>

> > The question you should be asking yourself is why the beetle is overlapped in nearly every type of terrain, even the sort that should be conducive to using the beetle.

>

> Except, beetles are not overlapped in every type of terrain except tiny corridors, underwater maps, and vertical maps.

 

No I did not say that griffons make raptors obsolte. And yes, it matters what I mention.

That's slander and lies.

 

On point, we have a bettle mount that's supposed to be the speed king mount, only on flat terrain, but its not. It is absolutely the SLOWEST mount for short distances.

By making it start with full endurance it fulfills its purpose as the fast ground mount -for straight or downhill terrain- while the others maintain their advantages.

You easily slam into stuff making you go back to 0-speed. No height-terrain advantage like griffon. No control at high speeds.

It is niche already enough already, the beetle that is. Forcing it to slow-mode at first, is making it obsolete and mostly -USELESS!!!- on maps that aren't Queensdale.

 

Non-endgame maps are full of waypoints, which mostly makes mounts obsolete, but - without taking that into consideration just look at the endgame maps for HOT.

How useful is the beetle there? Even in POF maps which the beetle is more useful mostly, it's downtime with the 0-endurance start makes its gain relatively minimal in terms of speed. The mount's just cool and that's it. Having us wait 10seconds to speed up is an artificial obstacle to fun itself. Wanna use beetle? Sure go ahead - might as well wait 10 seconds or alt tab a moment for it to fill up.

[Skariius.9206]

Half the time taken or speed up the base speed, cause its a pain in the kitten to find long down slopes.

[Drecien.4508]

> @"Umut.5471" said:

> I agree too. They don't have to take all the fun things away from the game. (just like the griffon nerf)

 

> @"Umut.5471" said:

> I agree too. They don't have to take all the fun things away from the game. (just like the griffon nerf)

 

Pssst the griffin is back to the way it was... Probably unintended... ?