Is the story of the PC character compelling?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> It seems odd to me that people would complain about the PC being "bland". For my tastes, the PC is far too defined and disagreeable. I'd vastly prefer to be some nameless helper than to be the brute that the commander comes off as.

 

I think it's less that the PC is "bland" but rather that there is no "solid identity" to the Commander. Whether you play charr, human, asura, sylvari, or norn; whether you're Iron Legion or Ash Legion, whether you're Noble or Street Rat, whether you're Dawn Cycle or Night Cycle. The Commander is always the same, with only one line out of 30 to define a difference in race.

 

That said, I think it's far too late to alter this in all honesty. So much of the plot has happened and in all honesty, it feels like we're reaching the end of the Elder Dragon plot (two more expansions, three tops, I'd imagine). The last time ArenaNet really had to fix the lack-of-diversity in the Commander was with HoT, imo. At this point, it'll probably feel more out of place than anything, after having done things like Heart of Thorns and Season 3's plots with no true variance.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

I don't think branching dialog address the issue of having a relateable or personal main character for the player. Giving the player character a strong voice, constrains the character to one voice. Giving the character three possible choices of defining interactions, constrains the character to three different possible voices. If I remember some biowares games I have played before, the choices, are really, is my character compassionate or tough. and the choices you make really fall along those lines and that is about it. You aren't creating a custom character, just choosing between two. You could maybe add more facets to the allowed choices that give characters personality, but each additional personality trait that you add as possibly applying to the character would somewhat double the possible permutations a player could choose, and to satisfy every permutation in writing would required exponential quantities of work.

 

Really, what you mean by branching paths in the end, is to create x number of different possible player character archetypes for the player to possibly end up with. Especially, if you insist on making every choice reinforcing into future choices, where you character pretty much, eventually is locked into one of the final possible types. And, that is certainly better than having one character. but it isn't going to let you build the character you want, because the character you want, won't fit into the choices they give you. Well some people may be lucky enough to get a close approximation.

 

There is certainly an elegance, (elegantly cheap too) for the player character to just be a smooth clean slab. People who don't care awfully too much, can appreciates how streamlined it is. People who do care, well, then they can draw on it. People seems to be fascinated enough in wanting to write their own narratives, so why not do that. We don't need dialog options to write them, especially if the ultimate solution is to have so many options that we could have written down how our character felt before we could find it scrolling through the options or figuring out how the dialog tree is structured. That doesn't mean the narrative can't give you crayons to work with. Not full branches of dialog, or pick one of some choices. Just things that are discretely laid out there, not necessarily a part of the player character, but it could be... ehhh...

 

I dunno, I'm no studied designer, I just like videogames, and as much as I want to learn things, It may not be my place to, directly ask someone, why not this or why not that.

[Torolan.5816]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> * Zhaitan was finished off by a super airship, but it wouldn't have worked if the PC didn't destroy the Mouth of Zhaitan to starve the dragon, weaken it's hold on the land and destroy it's eyes and dragon champions. For Mordy, the PC had to figure a way into his mindscape in order to kill him there, because his body is far too massive for a small group to kill, given how he *was* the jungle. Trahaerne's sacrifice was more about keeping him dead.

> * When held, the Scepter of Orr literally just gave the one holding it some bonus energy regeneration, and being near it gave some extra energy. No skills, no epic destruction. A passive effect like Longevity is pretty realistic for the artifact. Khilbron was able to do more with the staff, but he was a powerful lich from Orr and knew how to make use of it. In his hands, it had the ability to command creatures like Titans, that hailed from worlds other than Tyria. None of which really translates into much for Livia. Sohotin on the other hand, was a mage-kings weapon and has feats tied to it via what happens in the AC dungeon.

> * Realistically, heroes like Koss probably ran into the same issue the commander did. They probably put Joko down, and he got back up because of his immortal body. They just didn't have the means to deal with the problem.

> * I'm not sure what the 'later on' stuff is about. GW1's third campaign had the PC killing a god. GW2's third campaign had the PC killing a god. It's kind of funny how similar some bits about that are.

>

 

The difference for me is the type of escalation, and the marginalization of GW1 heroism.

In GW1, you tried to save your butt from the devastation of Ascalon by fleeing through the mountains to seek refugee in a city state of pirates. King Adelbern and Khilbron blew it in this scenario and condemned many people to an eternal battle while the crown prince and best hope of humankind is killed and you are forced to kill him again as undead. How horrible that may be, the world itself is not in danger of being destroyed.

In GW2, the char make a mockery out of that cataclysmic battle while you try to repel undead forces which are already close to conquering Lion´s arch. The leader of said forces is an undead giant dragon who cares nothing about humanoid motives and just wants other beings as magical batteries. As we only later learn, this is not a world threatening scenario but one that would leave it a barren, primordial wasteland.

 

Especially in PoF and ls 3, Anet does what it can to marginalize GW1. Why should I care about the commander if I have to fight the lingering impression that whatever he does will be in vain because it will either be marginalized in GW3 or turns out to be totally wrong like the killing of elder dragons?

Or take Glimmer. Your GW1 hero obviously failed to protect Vlast in the way the GW2 commander protects Aurene, and even that is indirectly smeared into your face when Vlast muses how his own champion never showed up and failed him. The commander shows grief and sympathy in that situation, and I was indeed moved at this point despite my general annoyance about the marginalization of GW1 in that situation.

 

[foozlesprite.8051]

I feel like the player character _has_ actually started gaining more of a personality in a manner that seems realistic and makes sense across multiple races. They're getting annoyed and tired of having to make decisions, especially when so many of them can only lead to bad places in exchange for a temporary respite. And Joko...the last scene with Joko put a fine point on that and twisted the knife, and despite the somewhat casual dismissal of it at the end of the chapter I think it's going to have more lasting effects on us than we wanted to admit out loud. We were shaken about where things were going before that scene, but after that scene I could see our snappiness morphing into depression. Depression tends to dampen personality, so hey, maybe we'll go back to more of a blank slate for those that want it? Interested to see!

[kasoki.5180]

Personally, I would love to have my characters with different personalities and my PC personality to be more of a reflection of what I'm doing/saying. And the original personality system had the potential for, if only it had been a bit more worked on. But Anet went in different direction, which I can understand from business perspective and respect it for what it is

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

>

> The difference for me is the type of escalation, and the marginalization of GW1 heroism.

> In GW1, you tried to save your butt from the devastation of Ascalon by fleeing through the mountains to seek refugee in a city state of pirates. King Adelbern and Khilbron blew it in this scenario and condemned many people to an eternal battle while the crown prince and best hope of humankind is killed and you are forced to kill him again as undead. How horrible that may be, the world itself is not in danger of being destroyed.

> In GW2, the char make a mockery out of that cataclysmic battle while you try to repel undead forces which are already close to conquering Lion´s arch. The leader of said forces is an undead giant dragon who cares nothing about humanoid motives and just wants other beings as magical batteries. As we only later learn, this is not a world threatening scenario but one that would leave it a barren, primordial wasteland.

>

> Especially in PoF and ls 3, Anet does what it can to marginalize GW1. Why should I care about the commander if I have to fight the lingering impression that whatever he does will be in vain because it will either be marginalized in GW3 or turns out to be totally wrong like the killing of elder dragons?

> Or take Glimmer. Your GW1 hero obviously failed to protect Vlast in the way the GW2 commander protects Aurene, and even that is indirectly smeared into your face when Vlast muses how his own champion never showed up and failed him. The commander shows grief and sympathy in that situation, and I was indeed moved at this point despite my general annoyance about the marginalization of GW1 in that situation.

>

 

I'd beg to differ in regards to the GW1 storyline not putting the world into danger. Khilbron was using his power of the Titans to try and destroy civilization. He opened portals up to all the major Tyrian areas and sent Titan's in, expecting then to "Tear Tyria asunder". The entire point of the Flameseeker prophecies was in regards to saving the entire world. The scenario with Undead Prince Rurik was just meant to be a knife twist to our gut from the Lich, who wanted to keep us busy long enough to send his armies to destroy Tyria.

 

That the Charr race looks back on human accomplishments with a dismissive nature is to be expected. They aren't going to revere human history, and it would be horrible writing if they did. GW2 is looking to tell a different story (and why shouldn't it?) but the stakes are very similar in both games.

 

The GW1 PC saved Vlast as an egg, but if not being able to survive for hundreds of years to raise a dragon scion is a 'failure', I guess you have me there. Totally failed him.

[Pax.3548]

After zhaitan's death, I always felt the personality of the commander was like a "wise soldier", he/she doesn't allow emotions to get on the way of the job, but because of that he/she is seem bland by others. But how could he/she be like an old sage?, well, after PoF I started to believe in the gw1 PC resurrection theory, and think that after all the events of gw1, when the pc there is shown as a tired person after all the violence (in Winds of Change) that mentality was somehow passed to his actual gw2 state, and thats why the commander controls his/her emotions more than the gw1 pc. At least thats is how I prefer to see it.

[Torolan.5816]

You also learn in GW2 that the entry of the titans would not have led to the end of the world, it could have led to the end of civilized humanity. It can be argued if that would have been less severe as a consequence than the elder dragons twisting anything alive in magical energy, especially considering that GW1 was very humancentric, but I have a subjective feeling of doom and gloom in GW2 which I rarely had in GW1.

 

Is there information available how long Vlast remained as an egg? He was quite large when we met him, and the nomads speak about him as legend. I assume that is is reasonable that the GW1 character lived when he hatched, the place where he was raised laid in ruin for quite a long time. The exalted left there mentioned that the exalted guardians saw no need to bring him in contact with humans in general, but his savior would surely have been allowed to see him. So the GW1 character either did not care or saw no need to have a watchful eye on him. And if this was not the case, why should Anet even mention this? The personality of Vlast did not have much impact on the commander as he met him only a few meager minutes before he was killed, so it was either a quick grasp for sympathy or a low blow to the many people that awaited the arrival of the other child of Glint after Aurene appeared.

 

I am not convinced about the correct handling of the fall of Ascalon in GW2. Take a real life example WWII. You will find many documents and documentaries of Russian soldiers telling about how they were forced to slay their opponents in cataclysmic battles, either in close combat in Stalingrad or the tank battle of the Bulge. But you will probably be hard pressed to find any allied reports how all axis powers were just cannon fodder, had no elite troops or were lead by incompetent dupes. Nobody of them revered the fascist war machine, but no one of them marginalized it either.

[Castigator.3470]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> I am not convinced about the correct handling of the fall of Ascalon in GW2. Take a real life example WWII. You will find many documents and documentaries of Russian soldiers telling about how they were forced to slay their opponents in cataclysmic battles, either in close combat in Stalingrad or the tank battle of the Bulge. But you will probably be hard pressed to find any allied reports how all axis powers were just cannon fodder, had no elite troops or were lead by incompetent dupes. Nobody of them revered the fascist war machine, but no one of them marginalized it either.

Well, the difference is that the charr and humans are different species. Worse, they are very different and the humans and charr started their first contact with open warfare.

There was no occupation either, the humans and charr fought each other to the last man whenever they met. Had the Kingdom of Ascalon prevailed, the humans may very well have driven the charr extinct. As a charr character may say in the Bastion of the Penitent raid:"Those were harsh times."

In fact, reading through the raid dialogue, the raid members are given race specific dialogue, which is a small thing, that may add a good amount of immersion towards the whole explorer perspective in the raid wings. All in all that particular raid wing was extremely well done.

In a way, I was surprised the Elonians even knew what a charr is, when the commander entered the desert region. Later on we found the Olmakhan so we learned that there were a few charr around. The asura and sylvari are a bit harder to explain, since they seem to have entered the region far more recently.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

 

> Is there information available how long Vlast remained as an egg?

There isn't, but that's partially because [Vlast was already hatched](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Baby_Dragon) [when the GW1 character came to his defense.](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glint%27s_Challenge) We weren't the only ones there, though, only last-minute additions when his dedicated defenders were threatened with being overrun. I'd always figured that if Vlast had a specific intended champion, it would've been one of the Brotherhood of the Dragon.

 

[Torolan.5816]

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> Well, the difference is that the charr and humans are different species. Worse, they are very different and the humans and charr started their first contact with open warfare.

> There was no occupation either, the humans and charr fought each other to the last man whenever they met. Had the Kingdom of Ascalon prevailed, the humans may very well have driven the charr extinct. As a charr character may say in the Bastion of the Penitent raid:"Those were harsh times."

> In fact, reading through the raid dialogue, the raid members are given race specific dialogue, which is a small thing, that may add a good amount of immersion towards the whole explorer perspective in the raid wings. All in all that particular raid wing was extremely well done.

> In a way, I was surprised the Elonians even knew what a charr is, when the commander entered the desert region. Later on we found the Olmakhan so we learned that there were a few charr around. The asura and sylvari are a bit harder to explain, since they seem to have entered the region far more recently.

 

But that is exactly the point of the Herrenmensch philosophy, Slavic folks were seen as inferior and subhuman. Still German soldiers interviewed quickly realized that the Russian soldier may have been very badly equipped but they learned quickly from German tactics and were merciless close combat fanatics. The narrative is just turned around in the charr vs humans aftermath, it is if Germany and/or said philosophy had won. And this feeds again in my perception that fascism is very alive and well in GW2.

[Castigator.3470]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> But that is exactly the point of the Herrenmensch philosophy, Slavic folks were seen as inferior and subhuman. Still German soldiers interviewed quickly realized that the Russian soldier may have been very badly equipped but they learned quickly from German tactics and were merciless close combat fanatics. The narrative is just turned around in the charr vs humans aftermath, it is if Germany and/or said philosophy had won. And this feeds again in my perception that fascism is very alive and well in GW2.

As a german, I must disagree with the mischaracterization of my conationals as bloodthirsty killing machines. The school system seems to only reinforce very one sided versions of history (likely due to time constraints). This underlines the value of primary sources and contemporary witnesses, who can give their accounts of the events add perspective to prevent the flanderization of world history into a black/white caricature. If you want a more authentic image, try this letter of a Soldier, who by coincidence met the boy, that would become president of the soviet union. Beware, though, an epic wall of text awaits.

>! Translator's note: I left the original text in, so the interested reader can verify the quality of the translation and point out any glaring mistakes.

>! (Auszug)

>! _(Excerpt)_

>! Von Leutnant a.D. Heinz Unruh (1923 - 2014)

>! _By Lieutenant (retired) Heinz Unruh (1923 - 2014)_

>!

>! Vorbemerkung: Im Jahr 2008 las ich in einer Tageszeitung die Buchsprechung über Michail Gorbatschows „Erinnerungen“. Mit einigen Passagen in dem Buch war ich ganz und gar nicht einverstanden, weil ich es als Zeitzeuge besser wusste. Ich war 1942 mit meiner Einheit, dem PzGrenRgt 3, das zur 3. Panzerdivision gehörte, als OB bei der Kampfgruppe Hptm. Bösang in dem Dorf Priwolnoje einquartiert und im Haus der Familie Gorbatschow untergebracht. Der kleine Michail war damals etwa 10 Jahre alt und – falls Herr Gorbatschow meinen Brief gelesen haben sollte – wird er sich sicher an das tatsächliche – nämlich tadellose – Verhalten der deutschen Soldaten erinnert haben. –Schade, dass in seinen „Erinnerungen“ nichts darüber zu lesen ist. Übrigens hat er mir nie auf meinen Brief geantwortet.

>!

>! _Preliminary note: In 2008 my local newspaper brought a book review about Mikhail Gorbachev's memoirs "Memories". I took issue with some passages of his book since I am a contemporary witness. Back in 1942 I was stationed in the village of Priwolnoje as part of my unit, an officer candidate in the combat group of captain Bösang under the third tank grenadier regiment, which was part of the third tank division, we were guests in the Gorbachev household. The little Mkhail was around 10 years old and – if mr. Gorbachev reads my letter – he will surely remember the actual – flawless – behaviour of those german soldiers. – Sadly, one cannot read anything about this in his "Memories". By the way, he never did answer my letter._

>!

>! > *

>! > Sehr geehrter Herr Michail Gorbatschow,

>! > _Dear Mr Mikhail Gorbachev,_

>! >

>! > Sie werden mit Recht erstaunt sein, von einem ehemaligen deutschen Soldaten Post zu erhalten. Als einer der letzten Zeitzeugen aus einer bewegten Vergangenheit möchte ich mit dem schuldigen Respekt auf einige Passagen in Ihrem Buch hinweisen, in denen Aussagen abgedruckt sind, die so gar nicht zu Ihnen, der von mir verehrten Persönlichkeit, passen. Nur der Umstand, dass in einer deutschen Tageszeitung ein Auszug aus Ihrem Buch „Erinnerungen“ abgedruckt war, drängt mich als ehemaliger unfreiwilliger Mitbewohner Ihres Heimatdorfes und damit Zeitzeuge im Interesse der Wahrheit und zur Ehrenrettung meiner gefallenen Kameraden zur Richtigstellung.

>! >

>! > You may be rightfully surprised to recieve a letter from a former german soldier. As one of the last contemporary witnesses of a significant past event I would like to, with all due respect, take issue with several passages of your book that contain printed statements, which don't seem to fitting of the person I hold in so high regard. The fact that this excerpt was printed in a local german newspaper urges me rectify this in the interest of truth, the vindication of my fallen comrades and as an involuntary cohabitant of your village.

>! >

>! > Ich hatte als Soldat und Offizier das kaum fassbare Glück, die grausamen Kriegs- und Nachkriegsjahre zu

>! > überleben. Deshalb kann ich als Älterer aus eigenem Erleben auf Ihre als Jüngeren gemachten Erfahrungen

>! > und Erlebnisse antworten. Nach Ihrer Aussage in Ihrem Buch, war ich einer der sogenannten

>! > „Herrenmenschen“, die plündernd und später mit Mordabsichten durch Ihr Heimatdorf zogen.

>! >

>! > _As a soldier and officer I had the incredible fortune to survive the cruel years of the war and those after it. Thus I can respond as an elder from my personal experience to your account of the events. According to your statement I was one of these so called "Herrenmenschen", who were said to plunder and later murder their way through your home village._

>! >

>! > Ja, verehrter Herr Gorbatschow, ich war mit meiner Einheit (Kampfgruppe Hauptmann Bösang) mehrere Wochen unfreiwilliger Gast in Ihrem Heimatdorf.

>! >

>! > Yes, esteemed mr Gorbachev, my unit (combat group cpt. Bösang) and I were , for the duration of several weeks, involuntary guests in your home village.

>! >

>! > Einquartiert war ich mit mehreren Kameraden in Ihrem Elternhaus. Wir hatten nicht nur mit Ihrer liebenswürdigen Frau Mutter, nein, auch mit den übrigen Dorfbewohnern ein gutes, freundschaftliches Einvernehmen. Unser Kommandeur, Hauptmann Bösang, (1945 gefallen) fühlte sich für die Bürger des Dorfes verantwortlich. Meine Einheit gehörte zur 3. Panzerdivision. Von unserer Seite und den Dorfbewohnern gab es keine feindliche Einstellung, somit auch keine Partisanen. Ich denke heute noch mit größter Hochachtung an die Frauen und Mütter, die unter furchtbaren Bedingungen ihr kümmerliches, armseliges Dasein fristen mussten. Diese grauenhaften Lebensumstände gingen nicht von der deutschen Besatzung aus. Nein, sie waren Bestandteil sowjetischer Politik.

>! >

>! > _I, along with several other comrades, was quartered in your parent's household. Not only did we have an amicable relationship with your dear mother, no we also got along splendidly with the other villagers. Our commander, captain Bösang (fell 1945), felt personally responsible for the citizens of the village- My unit was part of the third tank division. There were no hostilities between the soldiers and the inhabitants of this village, thus no partisan activity. I still think of those women and mothers with the highest regard, as they had to endure their poor miserable existance under the most awful circumstances. These horrible living standards were no result of the german occupation, they were a part of official soviet policy._

>! >

>! > Ich habe in keinem der europäischen Länder soviel Armut, Elend und Ungerechtigkeit gesehen, wie in dem angeblichen „Paradies der Arbeiter und Bauern“. Die Dorfbewohner erzählten uns, dass die „Rote Armee“ auf ihrem Rückzug das System der verbrannten Erde anwandten. Das heißt, beim Rückzug wurden auf Grund stalinistischer Befehle alle Vorräte des Dorfes entnommen oder vernichtet.

>! >

>! > _In no other european country have I seen so much poverty, misery and injustice as in this "Worker's Paradise". The villagers told us, that the "Red Army" had employed the strategy of scorched earth on their retreat. This means all the supplies in the village were either confiscated or destroyed when the army retreated._

>! >

>! > Der Umstand, dass wir mit den Dorfbewohnern auf engstem Raum leben mussten (im Gegensatz haben unsere Gegner im Westen wie im Osten die Bewohner aus ihren Häusern vertrieben), hatten wir die einmalige Gelegenheit den nicht genehmen Alltag von ihnen kennenzulernen, das bedingte auch, dass wir mit den Bewohnern unser Essen teilen mussten. Wir erfuhren von den gequälten Menschen (es waren ja mehr Frauen als Männer im Dorf), dass aus ihren Familien eine oder mehrere Familienmitglieder von der GPU verschleppt oder ermordet wurden.

>! >

>! > _Since we had to live among the villagers (By contrast, our enemies in west and east expelled the people out of their own houses.) we got the unique opportunity to get to know their harsh day to day life, which meant that we had to share our food with them. We learned from the poor villagers, (there were more women than men in the village), that from their families one or more members had been abducted or murdered by the GPU(secret Police)._

>! >

>! > Ich kann Ihnen, verehrter Herr Gorbatschow, versichern, dass wir als junge Soldaten nie angehalten wurden, uns wie „Herrenmenschen“ aufzuführen. Ich habe Ihre verehrte Frau Mutter als warmherzige, gütige Frau und Mutter kennengelernt. Hier flossen meine Erinnerungen an meine Mutter ein, die über tausend Kilometer in meiner Heimat um mich bangte, so wie Ihre Mutter um ihren Mann bangte, der als Soldat gegen uns im Felde stand. – Von meiner Mutter bekam ich die Mahnung mit, die da hieß, behandle im fremden Land die Menschen so, wie du deine Angehörigen behandelt wissen willst.

>! >

>! > _I can assure you, mr Gorbachev, that we as young soldiers were never told to act like "Herrenmenschen". I came to know your esteemed mother as a warm hearted and kind woman and loving mother. Here I recall memories of my own mother, who over a thousand kilometres away in the homeland was fearing for her son, as was your mother was fearing for her husband, who was drafted to stand against us in the field. – From my own mother I got the reminder to treat the people in the foreign land as you would want your relatives to be treated._

>! >

>! > Ihre Frau Mutter fand für uns junge Soldaten (wir waren nicht älter als 18 Jahre) tröstende Worte, wenn es hieß, wir gehen in Stellung. Wir teilten mit unseren Quartiersleuten unsere Verpflegung, wir bezahlten treu und brav die Hühner, die unser Mahl bereicherten. – Ich kann nochmals mit Recht betonen, dass unser Verhältnis mit den russischen Menschen, den Ukrainern und den Kaukasischen Völkern freundschaftlich war. Ich lege Ihnen ein Merkblatt der deutschen Wehrmacht bei, in dem unsere Verhaltensweise gegenüber diesen Völkern klar definiert wurde.

>! >

>! > _Your good mother always found comforting words for us young soldiers (we were no older than 18 years of age), when we had to get into position. We were sharing our food dutifully with our hosts and faithfully paid for the chickens that enriched our meals. – I emphasize rightly, that our relationship to the russian people, the ukrainians and the causcasian peoples has been an amicable one. I attach with this letter the Wehrmacht leaflet which clearly defined how we had to conduct ourselves towards all these peoples._

>! >

>! > Wir hatten keinen Ilja Ehrenburg, der uns zu Mordtaten aufrief. Ich habe unter diesen schon genannten Völkern wunderbare Menschen kennengelernt, an die ich heute noch mit größter Hochachtung denke.

>! >

>! > _We did not have an Ilja Ehrenburg, who incited people to murder. Among the peoples of your country I have met wonderful human beings, that I still hold in the highest regard._

>! >

>! > Sie schreiben in Ihrem Buch, wir hätten als grausame Besatzer in ihrem Heimatdorf die Bewohner ausgeplündert, nun, ich muss der Wahrheit zuliebe sagen, es gab bei diesen armen Menschen nichts zu plündern und wenn, dann hätten wir das mit dem Leben bezahlt. Ich muss Ihnen sagen, dass selbst die normalsten Dinge, die der Mensch zum Leben braucht in diesen Katen nicht vorhanden waren. Alltägliche Gegenstände wie Zahnbürsten oder andere hygienische Artikel waren nicht vorhanden. Uhren waren Mangelware, von Armbanduhren ganz zu schweigen. Ich habe in keinem der Häuser ein privates Radiogerät gesehen, an Holzmasten hingen Uralt-Lautsprecher die von einer zentralen Stelle (Partei) gesteuert wurden. In der Sowjetzeit, so wurde uns von den Dorfbewohnern versichert, durften sie nur das hören, was ihnen die Partei vorschrieb.

>! >

>! > _You write your memoirs as if we were cruel occupiers, who had plundered your village, well, truthfully, these poor villagers did not own anything to plunder, and if we had plundered, we would have paid for that transgression with our lives. I have to tell you, even the most common everyday items like toothbrushes or other items of hygiene did not exist within these hovels. Clocks were in short supply, let alone wrist watches. I have not seen a private radio in any of the houses. Only on a wooden pole was an ancient radio that was controlled from a central organ (communist party). Under soviet rule, the villagers assured us, they were only allowed to hear what the party allowed them to._

>! >

>! > Sie sprechen in Ihrem Buch von technischen Dingen, die wir entwendet hätten! Auch hier mein Widerspruch. Ich habe in keinem Haushalt und das in Städten wie Charcow oder Krasnodar sowie Mosdok irgendwelche technische Geräte vorgefunden. Für schier unglaublich ist Ihre Angabe, dass wir, die sogenannten „Herrenmenschen“, neben anderen Sachen sogar die Schwarzerde (Mutterboden) aus Ihrem Dorf weggeschleppt hätten. Bei Gott, wir hatten beim Rückzug andere Sorgen, wir mussten unsere Fahrzeuge bereitstellen um Kosakische Flüchtlinge die mit ihren Dorfgemeinschaften vor der „Roten Armee“ und der nachfolgenden NKWD fliehen mussten, in Sicherheit bringen.

>! >

>! > You write in your book, that we had stolen technical devices! Again I have to contradict. I have not found any kind of technical device and that in cities like Kharkov or Kransodar of Mozdok. Also incredible is your claim, that we so called "Herrenmenschen" had stolen amongst other things the black earth from your village. By god, we certainly had other things to worry about, we had to provide our vehicles to the cossack refugees, who were running from the advancing "Red Army" and the NKVD in its wake, we had to get them to safety.

>! >

>! > Zum Schluss, verehrter Herr Gorbatschow, eine humorvolle Begebenheit als kleine Nachlese. Vielleicht können Sie sich an diese Episode erinnern? Ich wollte Ihnen, dem kleinen, aufgeweckten Buben, das Wolgalied aus der Operette „Der Zarewitsch“ nahebringen. Leider war meine musikalische Begabung verheerend, wahrscheinlich dachten Sie als Junge, der deutsche „Teufel“ ist endgültig verrückt geworden.

>! >

>! > _Lastly, esteemed mr Gorbachev, a humorous occurence as a small gleaning. Maybe you can remember this little episode? I wanted to treat this spirited young boy to the Volga song from the operette "The Tsarevich". Sadly, my musical talent was ghastly, you probably thought as a young boy, that this german "devil" must have finally gone mad._

>! >

>! > Meine berechtigte Kritik an einigen Passagen Ihres Buches ändert nichts an meiner positiven Einstellung zu Ihnen und Ihrer politischen Leistung. Sollte Ihr Weg wieder in meine Heimat führen, würden meine Frau und ich versuchen, mich für die gewährte Gastfreundschaft in dem Haus Ihrer Eltern in aller Form zu bedanken.

>! >

>! > _My justified critique of several passages of your book does not lower my regard for your person, or your political achievement. Should your path ever lead you back into my homeland, my wife and I would be happy to thank you in all form for the hospitality provided in your parental household._

>! > *

>!

>! *

>! PS. Ich hatte das nicht fassbare Glück, dem Henker des NKWD zu entgehen. Da der Massenmörder Stalin am russischen Volk zum Zeitpunkt meiner Verurteilung als sogenannter Kriegsverbrecher und Spion 1947 die Todesstrafe für einige Zeit ausgesetzt hatte, wurde ich zu 25 Jahren Arbeitslager (KZ-Lager) verurteilt. Nach 10jähriger KZ-Lagerhaft 1956 mit Bewährung entlassen. Am 18. 10. 1991 wurde ich von der russischen Generalstaatsanwaltschaft rehabilitiert.

>!

>! _PS. I had the incredible fortune to escape the clutches of the murderous NKVD. Under the charges of "war crimes" and "espionage" I was sentenced to 25 years of forced labour, as the mass murderer of the russian people, Stalin, had suspended my death warrant in 1947. After ten years of internment I was released on parole. On the 18th of October 1991 I was rehabilitated by the russian state attorney general. (One year after german reunification.)_

>! *

>! Quelle: „Soldat im Volk“ – Juli/August 2010. Verband deutscher Soldaten e.V., Rheinallee 55, D-53173 Bonn.

>! _Source: "Soldier among the People" July/August 2010. German Soldier's Association e.V., Rheinallee 55, D-53173 Bonn._

>!

>! Addendum: In 1947 Heinz Unruh was captured by the KGB in Potsdam (then GDR) and sentenced to 25 years in Prison. He was brought into the infamous Bautzen penitentiary. In 1953 he and 200 inmates witnessed the effects of the peoples uprising of the 17th of June 1953. But that is another story, one of many within a truly living history.

>!

As you can see, the treatment human/human and human/charr is much different. As far as the Ascalonians were concerned, the charr were animals with enough intelligence to be a threat, not actual people. And as far as the charr were concerned humans were dangerous magical opponents, too strong to be conquered, too intelligent to be subdued, but prey sized and a valid source of protein. If anything the human charr conflict was worse than the worldwar, as the sides gave each other no quarter.

 

The charr had no use for humans in their midst, except maybe as servants, but those didn't tend to last long. Likewise, the humans had no need for foul tempered carnivores in their midst, as oxen are better beastd of burden and the humans considered themselves to be the best race.

 

As for their society being fascist, the Charr Legions seem to be a Dictatorial Stratocracy, and an odd case at that, as their society considers every individual to be conscripted into service since birth and released upon death. This oddity aside, their society is vaguely similar in organization to the spartan, or military cossack society. Only, the charr have a deeply rooted tradition to divide their labour, first among the high legions, then among their soldier/citizens.

The superiors don't have unlimited power either, the charr have laws and trials presided over by tribunes or the imperator, and dedicated bodies (adamant guard) to enforce their laws.

They are also dissimilar from ancient Sparta, in that they don't enslave other populations, instead relying on their elemental social unit, the warband, to fulfill a mission, be it fighting, farming, woodworking, stoneworking, metalworking, research, services or logistics. Name an area of expertise and there is at least one warband that specializes in it. I calculated that the charr population in Ascalon (Iron Legion) may be as high as 15,000,000 individuals or higher, with warbands averaging 8 charr each, so less than two million production units, or households. Nothing to scoff at, considering the amount of technological progress they made during the last 250 years (Though the priory and the asura did help them).

Now, in universe a charr wouldn't even be able to answer your question whether or not his society was a fascist one, as Tyria has no concept of fascism, but you can answer that question by looking at their organization of state, economy and society. The litmus test:

• If everything forms one solid unit with strong emphasis on military power and no discernible separation of powers, add 3 points!

If the economy is at least a mixed economy with strong emphasis on state intervention and regulated import/export, add 3 points!

If their society demands absolute obedience to a central unified concept, like universal leadership add 3 points!

If their score reaches, more than six points, they are likely to be comparable to the various ideologies that sprung up in the late 19th century in our world. However, we have too little insight on how rigid society's control over the individual charr is. In fact, Ghosts of Ascalon seems to suggest a rather free range approach towards the warbands and ultimately, it's the warbands, that form the central unit of charr society, so their society feels less like a nightmarish dystopia and more like a paternalistic clan-based society.

 

Likewise, the Kingdom of Kryta is no democracy either, their parliament was founded as an emergency measure by King Baede, when the capital, Lion's Arch, was flooded. The Krytan Regency may have bloated the Ministry's powers, but when the Minister in LW3E4 spoke of "freedom" he meant the freedom of the ministers to do as they please, unimpeded by the monarch. The whole thing is more similar to the russian boyar duma, where the nobility voted in their own interest against both emperor's and people's interest.

 

On the other hand, the world of Tyria isn't conductive to the development of democracy, as there are world ending threats like elder dragons, mad gods, mist entities, rogue mages, chak, liches, ghosts, pirates, and other things that prevent a society from ever settling down in the same way ours did. The world of Tyria may not be a safe enough for democracy, the people want to have a plan for survival and any complex systems of checks and balances, or participation delay critical decisionmaking processes, so in a world where everything may try to eat you an autocracy that can protect its citizens may be preferable to more participatory forms of government.

 

TLDR:

The term "Herrenmensch" was derided by even the germans.

A war between humans may be much more, well, humane than a war between humans and charr.

The Charr society may look fascist to an outside observer. Depending on the details, it might be.

Tyria is not safe for democracy, maybe it never will be.

[Torolan.5816]

I am German too. One of my grandfathers was a paratrooper in WWII and fought in both Italy and France, one of my grandmother was a German decent Yugoslavian "Aussiedler Deutsche". My grandfather then was a PoW in American captivity and suffered for the rest of his life from post traumatic stress disorder after being set free. I know firsthand that he was no fascist or racial supremacist by hearth, quite the contrary. So I didn´t characterize individual people with my statement and also know that there is a distinction between being a patriot unit that fights for the Fatherland or a hate blinded fascist supremacist unit under the command of a true nationalist. The propaganda machine probably swept many people with them who would have never felt superior on their own.

I think that it is futile to deny ethical cleanings and deportations by SS and police forces. The Wehrmacht itself also had their fair share of war crimes with the scorched earth doctrine outside of Germany and made no secret about it. Albert Speer even confessed about that in the trials. The Nuremberg racial laws are also an undeniable fact, also the propaganda goal of acquiring "Lebensraum".

I also have no doubt that Stalin was probably the same type of tyrant and used the same methods as Hitler.

 

Of course you can´t transport that 1:1 to a computer game. I just see many parallels that make me a little uncomfortable with the charr-human war. and of course I also have to admit that as a GW1 player I had some trouble seeing how the fall of Ascalon was marginalized as it was the secondary MMO that I played along with DAOC so it holds a special, rose-eye colored glasses view for me.^^