SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Laivine.9308" said: > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > She used sexism as a motivator for the streamers response. What can't you understand? > > > > > > > > Mansplaining is sexism. What can't you understand? > > > > > > Apparently accusing someone of sexism is sexist. Same as accusing someone of racism. This kind of shallow logic is unfortunately common these days. > > > > Exhibit approximately one million: "Racism doesn't exist, but reverse racism is totally a problem." > > > > > Also I love all the men trying to explain to a woman what sexism is. If you can’t understand why something is sexist you shouldn’t just assume it isn’t and then accuse her of being “crazy.” That automatic dismissal is sexist, actually. > > > > > > It’s like, take a step back and ask yourself “do I really know enough to comment intelligently on this?” If the answer is “not sure” then maybe you should be listening and not speaking. > > > > Unfortunately, the answer to the question is going to be "yes" as far as those folks are concerned. Just like "I make the most basic suggestion possible, because you have clearly never considered this" dude, they believe that they *do* have the knowledge, and the special insight, to comment intelligently on it. > > I’d like to add re: the whiteness as a social construct tweet by JP. > > This is actually true. Italians and others were not considered “white” originally when they immigrated to the US. They became “white” over time. Many groups that today are considered white were not originally part of that group. > > Even the US Supreme Court at one time struggled to define whiteness when Indian and Japanese people tried to claim they were white (and should be so treated by laws at the time). The decisions to exclude those groups were racist and not consistent with one another. > > When we talk about the cultural construction of whiteness it is actually a documented historical phenomena. Yes. I think one of the stumbling blocks in the conversation is that we frequently use jargon that is confusing to people unfamiliar with the concepts, so they imagine that "whiteness is a social construct" doesn't actually have a very specific meaning, just as they imagine that racism, privilege, and other terms don't have very specific meanings. The whole routine "but conservatives don't agree with that definition of racism" is some of the fallout from this: they evolved from attempting to control the definition to attempting to control the narrative around it, because the formed didn't work. Unfortunately, historical knowledge doesn't shed much light in this part of the "gamer" community. These are, after all, the people who insist that having gay characters in Ancient Greece is completely historically inaccurate, because they "followed religion" and so would have "killed them on sight". I mean, Ancient Greece ... not gay ... just ... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"saerni.2584" said: > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 This company and this product now remind me of her and her words. I logged in and did some story and the voice of my own character and the dialog just turned me off to know someone like that is free to talk to fellow customers like that. Shameful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walhalla.5473 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > Le wild article on the topic has appeared: > > http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2-lurches-to-yet-another-pr-nightmare > > At this point my mind is just boggled that Anet didn't come out ASAP and just say "Sorry guys, she said something crappy. We gave the affected parties some neat in game trinkets and told her knock it off. Social Media policy has been updated appropriately. Game on!" and that would be that. The silence seems to be causing them more problems than anything else 0_o I think Anet right now is trying to digest the last day and the PR Team seems to be completely stunned on what has happened. There is a lot to read through. I guess, that a PR text will come tomorrow after things were done internally. ( and its garuanteed that after the debacle yesterday, someone is going to have a very bad day at Anet ). I mean your whole company is celebrating a national holiday and one day later you see one of the biggest PR-Desasters in your companies history. It will take some time, some internal workings and Grenths help to resurrect the PR-Team before we can expect an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. A really poorly thought one. https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melodyca.8921 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. > > Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. > > That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? I agree that was definitely wrong. But I suggest you do some research, she was not the only one who and there were male developers as well. And yes it was wrong but developers are fighting back because of the abuse they have received from the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Laivine.9308" said: > > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > She used sexism as a motivator for the streamers response. What can't you understand? > > > > > > > > > > Mansplaining is sexism. What can't you understand? > > > > > > > > Apparently accusing someone of sexism is sexist. Same as accusing someone of racism. This kind of shallow logic is unfortunately common these days. > > > > > > Exhibit approximately one million: "Racism doesn't exist, but reverse racism is totally a problem." > > > > > > > Also I love all the men trying to explain to a woman what sexism is. If you can’t understand why something is sexist you shouldn’t just assume it isn’t and then accuse her of being “crazy.” That automatic dismissal is sexist, actually. > > > > > > > > It’s like, take a step back and ask yourself “do I really know enough to comment intelligently on this?” If the answer is “not sure” then maybe you should be listening and not speaking. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the answer to the question is going to be "yes" as far as those folks are concerned. Just like "I make the most basic suggestion possible, because you have clearly never considered this" dude, they believe that they *do* have the knowledge, and the special insight, to comment intelligently on it. > > > > I’d like to add re: the whiteness as a social construct tweet by JP. > > > > This is actually true. Italians and others were not considered “white” originally when they immigrated to the US. They became “white” over time. Many groups that today are considered white were not originally part of that group. > > > > Even the US Supreme Court at one time struggled to define whiteness when Indian and Japanese people tried to claim they were white (and should be so treated by laws at the time). The decisions to exclude those groups were racist and not consistent with one another. > > > > When we talk about the cultural construction of whiteness it is actually a documented historical phenomena. > > > > > > Agreed. A discussion about the origin of modern social constructs is not inherently racist. This is true, but ... it isn't nearly as significant as many people seem to think. It is entirely possible to have a non-racist discussion on the subject. The majority of discussions on the subject, especially in the public sphere, arise from inherently racist assumptions or positions, and in many cases, are not actually "discussions" at all, but rather, [a deliberate and concerted strategy of normalizing racism](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/15/inside-the-daily-stormers-style-guide) set out by, and encouraged by, literal Nazis, and other white supremacist groups. It also doesn't mean that anyone is obliged to have the discussion "on demand", as it were. Nobody is under any obligation to answer questions or engage in discussion with someone, regardless of the other parties desire. There is absolutely nothing wrong with simply saying "your historical ignorance has led you to an unsupportable conclusion", or "do you really think that in ten years this question has never, ever occurred to me, or come up in discussion?" Unfortunately, many of the people pushing hard on these issue are also from backgrounds that have accustomed them to the privilege of having their ideas, no matter how mediocre, respected and praised. They are treated with unearned deference, and more "successful" than other, more capable people thanks to systematic biases in the culture. They also have no real money on the table: the outcome of the discussion has no significant effect on them. If they loose, they might be a little grumpy about having to put up with people doing things they disapprove of. They do not, however, stand to lose, say, their lives, or their incomes, or their ability to spend time with people they love, or to have children. What seems like a fun debate when there are no real stakes has a significantly different tenor when your literal ability to be yourself is on the line. So, yes, a discussion about race and society is not inherently racist, but the reverse is not true: there are plenty of racist discussions about race and society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitske.4912 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). And you have no proof for that whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"melodyca.8921" said: > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > > > > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > > > > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. > > > > Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. > > > > That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? > > I agree that was definitely wrong. But I suggest you do some research, she was not the only one who and there were male developers as well. And yes it was wrong but developers are fighting back because of the abuse they have received from the fans. The point of discussion here is ONE particular worker with sexist, bigoted and full way amoral tweets and comments. i don't really care if she's abused idon't care if she has a mental breakdown or not i don't care if she stepped in shit in the morning. She, while representing ANet (as it is in her Bio) made some awful comments. That's the problem, that's why we are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ And we believe statista and not Forbes why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"smitske.4912" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > And you have no proof for that whatsoever. > @"smitske.4912" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > And you have no proof for that whatsoever. Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRubberDucky.1045 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386409003594547201/464305302418751489/trigger.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melodyca.8921 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"melodyca.8921" said: > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > > > > > > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > > > > > > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. > > > > > > Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. > > > > > > That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? > > > > I agree that was definitely wrong. But I suggest you do some research, she was not the only one who and there were male developers as well. And yes it was wrong but developers are fighting back because of the abuse they have received from the fans. > > The point of discussion here is ONE particular worker with sexist, bigoted and full way amoral tweets and comments. i don't really care if she's abused idon't care if she has a mental breakdown or not i don't care if she stepped in kitten in the morning. She, while representing ANet (as it is in her Bio) made some awful comments. That's the problem, that's why we are here. And I bet if she was a man you would have glossed the over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"melodyca.8921" said: > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > > > > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > > > > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. > > > > Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. > > > > That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? > > I agree that was definitely wrong. But I suggest you do some research, she was not the only one who and there were male developers as well. And yes it was wrong but developers are fighting back because of the abuse they have received from the fans. Think about a friend you know around the age of 30. Male or Female, it doesn't matter. Imagine under a couple of years they go from healthy with a bright future to slowly get sicker and sicker until every hour, every day is filled with pain. Massive constant pain. So much pain that pain medicine won't work and it just keep going. Then they die, leaving behind family and friends. Oh, and they had people who followed them on social media and as a loosely connected to this friend of yours, your friend is guilty of not controlling followers actions enough online so people celebrate that your friend died. Does this sound like "do more research" problem? Its not just wrong, it is a complete lack of empathy. Just thinking about it is making me feel ill. From now on that is the association I have with gw2, and it feels like she stolen something from me. I really enjoy this game but hearing about such behaviour is beyond abhorrent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebaall.5127 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Yeah Anet... you need to explain why this person is still employed with you. ...she actually tweeted that she's glad Total Biscuit died. This person has a long history of toxic, bitter behavior. The only answer is to fire this person. I don't want her working on any game I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ Can't believe that I'd see the day where somebody unironically argues the wage gap exists in one of my circles. There are around 2000 videos on youtube that can give you sources, that can explain you how this misconception was born. It has been proven time and time again that it doesn't exist - especially because it's illegal. Instead it is an "earnings gap" and far less severe than estimated. It also stems from the fact that so many top dogs are men and obviously get paid extraorbitant amounts of money so that the females just pale in comparison, skewing the entire statistic. If you take a standard job, same hours and same position you'd see that it doesn't exist or is a result of men being more competitive and haggling their wage more whereas women are historically shown to accept less pay (or because they don't really try to ask for a raise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply @"Huskyboy.1053" > > > > > > > > I’ll respond more later but I think the core of our disagreement lies with the fact that I think merely identifying the subset of behavior particular to men is valuable. Women do experience sexism and I do believe, without a study in front of me, with negative consequences that we shouldn’t ignore just because men also experience sexism. We can address both. Women can identify mansplaining and men can identify sexism they experience. It’s an option for men to speak up about sexism against them. We just shouldn’t complain about a lack of paternity leave, for example, to drown out women asking for better maternity leave. > > > > > > > > Yes, we could use womansplain (if women were targeting condescending remarks at men and not men) but that’s not the context here. Here we are dealing with a woman and a man. So we can use mansplain. It’s an easy shorthand for “possibly sexist explanatory condescension” which, admittedly, does have a certain enjoyable ring—but mansplain is easier to say lol. > > > > > > I wonder what a good term would be, instead, for the exceedingly small subset of people that use the oft condemned and bigoted term "mansplaining" to silence the voices of individuals based purely on their gender? Of course, then that would be as bad a deragatory term like "mansplaining", so then we'd need a term for anyone who used the new term. > > > > > > Being prejudiced seemed complicated. I prefer the majority of people who don't sink so low as to use terms like that! > > > > Who is being silenced? You are clearly expressing yourself. Being criticized and debated does not mean you are being silenced. People post and I am free to respond. That’s not censorship that’s freedom of speech. > > I completely support @"saerni.2584" here. The only people who can silence you on this site are the forum moderators. If you feel that someone stating a different point of view is "silencing" you, see a therapist. A whole lot of folks on the right talk a big game about how they value free speech, and they want people to take responsibility for their actions, and how we shouldn't pre-judge people, but rather, judge them by their character, or their actions. Then they get really, really upset when someone criticizes them: they don't realize there is a significant difference between free speech, and consequence-free speech. We say this in droves when the march in Charlottsville, where a bunch of people marched alongside literal nazis, in uniform. They assumed that they could simply walk next to nazis, expressing their views as freedom of speech permits, and there would be no consequences. Nobody would fire them for it, or stop being their friend. They scream blue murder when someone asks them to take responsibility for their actions: ask them to warn people before talking about things that upset them, or to consider the larger scale effects of their decisions, to points out that walking next to a Nazi makes you look pretty much like a Nazi, and they are incensed that anyone would dare do that. After all, they were just exercising their rights, what is this unfair situation when people respond to their actions? They complain about incivility, and argue we shouldn't demonize people, and that people have a right to act on their beliefs, to refuse to serve someone in a public business because they object to the choices those people have made ... right up until someone who has spent a year working hard to explain, and justify, stripping rights from LBGT people and immigrants, who has spent that time describing refugees, immigrants, and people from a variety of countries as evil, in support of someone who does this more frequently is refused service in a restaurant by the people she has been attacking. Then, suddenly, civility matters, and turning someone away because they have taken specific, public actions is entirely unfair, and the right to refuse service to an entire class of people based on their choice of partner doesn't matter compared to the horror over *gasp* someone judging a specific person on the basis of their specific, personal actions and choices. Heck, they don't even distinguish between the two situations, being unable, or unwilling, to understand that there is a difference between pre-judging a class of people based on some trait, and judging specific individuals based on their previous actions. So, I'm not surprised to see this here: claims that people disagreeing with you are "silencing" are right out of the playbook, sitting there beside "I was only joking", and "if you won't debate it, how will I learn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feithlinn.9284 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feigned outrage is so much better on twitter, where it's limited to 250 characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's her personal twitter feed. Not only do forum-goers not need to know this, but we _definitely_ don't need to have a discussion with ANet about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite is the part where you pretend such a discussion would somehow be constructive when this is obviously just a weak attempt to ensure professional consequences for someone who said something that offended your sensibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it isn't constructive, that won't be my doing. Sexism against ANYONE is offensive, male or female. To discount the opinions of someone offering constructive criticism based on their gender is offensive. So yes, in that sense, I am offended. My outrage is certainly not feigned, or I would not have gone through all the trouble of looking into all of the Twitter posts I did and doing fact-checking to ensure I was accurately representing the situation, let alone writing that long of a post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism against anyone does NOT exist. Sexism is only against females as racism is ONLY against black people. Please bare in mind that still races are clearly a social construct. (that is so easy to understand even if you are a male or even white male). What you understand and keep repeating as "constructive criticism" it may not be if you are a person trying to explain to you how you need to do your job or how to be a "better professional" by his standards. Being a customer does not make you always right. It's so easy to understand the difference between constructive criticism and patronising. If you are unable to understand it just read any dictionary. It's all written there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ah yes..... pc victimhood hieararchy at its finest. This is just social engineering designed to squelch speech. If you don't have the appropriate victim status, your opinion doesn't matter...….. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeap , that is exactly what any hate speaker would say. "They supress my opinion and freedom of speech because they victimize themselves so ppl feel pity abou them.It does not matter I am the bully. My opinion matters too." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well guess what? It does not. At least not the way you think.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feithlinn I respectfully asked at the beginning of this thread that people not use personal attacks here, and have asked people to stop whenever I see them, even when they agreed with me on any topics. Please don't imply that another forum user is being "a hate speaker" or "a bully" just because they respectfully disagreed with you. I would like to keep this thread around so everyone has a chance to make their voice heard. Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to personally attack anyone. I am sorry if you or anyone feels offended but If hate speakers and misogynists feel offended being called that its their own problem. Not mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are labeling me a misogynist because I feel that both men and women can be sexist? I guess I am hateful because I point out the inherent bias of the pc victim hierarchy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sexism is discrimination against women. Full stop. So I am not labeling you anything . You label yourself. > > > > > > > > As for the "inherent bias" part please do not mention Hawthorne effect next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the definition of sexism. Full stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a female hiring manager refuses to hire the most qualified candidate because he is male, she is engaging in sexist behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but what you say can't happen. On the other side there are millions of cases women did not get hired because they did not want their kitten getting groped. > > > > > > > > > > Right now in USA there is a higher chance that a company will hire woman with the same or even less qualifications than a man just becouse they fear of being called out as bigots. > > > > > > > > They are bigots because even if they do what you say ,her payment will be much less than her male co-worker (same position - same qualifications). > > > > > > Don't want to really start Social Justice crap here, but Wage gap is a myth. Bad a poorly thought one. > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#52642ece2596 > > > > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ > > And we believe statista and not Forbes why? Because https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2018/01/22/the-countries-with-the-best-and-worst-gender-pay-gap-expectations-and-how-the-u-s-stacks-up/#2c1028fb345c But we can keep exchanging links all night long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseRen.2403 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"melodyca.8921" said: > > @"NoiseRen.2403" said: > > > @"melodyca.8921" said: > > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > On that note: I’m dropping out of the thread before it gets locked. > > > > > > > > > > I expect some @"Gaile Gray.6029" post shortly thereafter addressing the need for respectful discourse and the like. I hope Anet treats her fairly and respects the portion of the community that is not happy with the calls for her to be fired. > > > > > > > > > > It is probably too much to hope for given the massive campaign to get JP fired for her liberal views and particular brand of feminist thought. I for one want to express my hope that Anet doesn’t bow to the pressure. > > > > > > > > Totalbiscuit made a single video where during the first 10 he said why he thought both side of the controversy was just political fighting and he disagree with both side, and then for the remaining 30m he took the time to actually rant about his own view about game review ethics. For this JP decided it was worth celebrating when at the age of 32 John Bain died to fast growing cancer. > > > > > > > > That is not about liberal views. That is not about feminism. She could have been an extreme right person or extreme left person and I would still not wish cancer on anyone and never celebrate their death in such cruel way. Be she feminist or anti-abortion, celebrating a cancer death belong to people with no empathy. Is that really the kind of person we want in GW2 community, and in a central position at that? > > > > > > I agree that was definitely wrong. But I suggest you do some research, she was not the only one who and there were male developers as well. And yes it was wrong but developers are fighting back because of the abuse they have received from the fans. > > > > The point of discussion here is ONE particular worker with sexist, bigoted and full way amoral tweets and comments. i don't really care if she's abused idon't care if she has a mental breakdown or not i don't care if she stepped in kitten in the morning. She, while representing ANet (as it is in her Bio) made some awful comments. That's the problem, that's why we are here. > > > And I bet if she was a man you would have glossed the over. > Oh you know me so well... not. I don't really care about gender or sex of the offender. It makes no difference if some male scumbag were gloating about death from cancer, my reaction would be exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.4589 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 A-net, something worth reminding your people about... _"If you express your opinion publicly, you open it up to interpretation."_ The manner in which one handle's everything that comes with that will define you as a person / company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambush.9420 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 > @"Feithlinn.9284" said: > Loch Ness monster is a myth not the wage gap. Sorry. > Talk about wage gap myth to non whites in USA. > > https://www.statista.com/topics/3453/wage-inequality-in-the-united-states/ As an economist, I'd urge you to learn some basic statistical analysis before making such claims. You seem to have a poor understanding of how the specific data (regarding the 'wage gap') is actually gathered. The site you linked looks blindly at the entire population of women, and compares them (again blindly) to the entire population of men. It doesn't take into account extremely important factors such as the type of job , the hours worked, time taken off, etc. Once you account for these, the wage gap diminishes, and in fact.. recent findings suggest women actually earn MORE for the same job once these factors are equated for. Essentially, women are making less as a whole because they choose jobs that make less, they are generally worse at negotiating, and they take much more time off than the average man. Again, once you account for these factors.. the wage gap diminishes entirely (sometimes even favouring the women). Now, a good discussion would be WHY are women choosing worse paying jobs? Why are men more interested in higher paying jobs such as computer science , engineering and mathematics? Some say it's biology, others say it's due to societal pressures. You can look to the Scandinavian countries for an answer, which are without argument the most egalitarian countries in the world.. what do we find when we look there? There is actually an even BIGGER divide between men and women in terms of their career choices. The data is extremely clear on that. You can conclude that when left to their own devices, men and women make different life choices.. careers being no different. That is an extremely large part of why blindly comparing men and women (in terms of earnings) is completely ridiculous from a statistical standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRubberDucky.1045 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 guys pls keep this thread focused on what really matters, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386409003594547201/464305302418751489/trigger.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (I know I said I wouldn't comment again, but this is a PSA, not in reply to anyone, nor will I reply) Peter Fries has seemingly deleted all tweets in connection (tagged) to JP's. The only one remaining is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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