GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Uhura.5163" said:

> > > When you see those kind of réaction after the decision to fire JP and PF, you can see there is something wrong.[https://youtube.com/watch?v=oA9xzTI4Zyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA9xzTI4Zyk "https://youtube.com/watch?v=oA9xzTI4Zyk")

> > > I hope Deroir knows he is one of the 2 person who started all of this and could have stop it to escalate at this point.

> > > Anyway, even if they won't read this post, i want to say that as a female player, Jessica and Peter you have all my support.

> >

> > Deroir appologized 2 times.

> >

>

> The victim in the situation shouldn’t have to apologize, imho. He did nothing wrong. She, a capable adult woman, posted a discussion on a public twitter feed that she chose not to make private. He responded to it in a considerate and respectful fashion. Her reaction to that was not something he could control.

>

> It’s amazing how many people here think that a professional woman is not capable of controlling her own emotions and that it is the duty of the big strong capable man in the situation to make sure not to upset her. It’s really tiring seeing how many of you with “good intentions” view women like irrational children who will blow up at any minute.

>

> She’s an adult. She’s a professional. She chose to react how she did, and it’s not his place to control her reaction to his respectful attempt to have a conversation with her.

 

This... soooo this

[Tolmos.8395]

> @"Virgil.2601" said:

> Or maybe she'll surprise me and do some real self-reflecting and post something vaguely resembling remorse.

 

Honestly, I hope this is the case. She has a good resume, including one of the largest and most popular AAA MMOs on the market. Any company would be thrilled to have her for that experience alone, as long as they can feed confident that she won't endanger their brand. The moment she does some self reflecting and can honestly say "This maybe wasn't my best idea ever", companies should be clamoring to scoop her up. It'll be up to her to do the rest.

 

[Southes.2734]

> @"Virgil.2601" said:

> > @"Nagi.8941" said:

> > > @"Shoyoko.7309" said:

> > > It's so funny that this conversation was stemmed from a female dev wrongfully accusing a player sexist and yet I'm seeing so many people particularly females accusing the rest of community stereotyping them as "sensitive snowflakes with a lot of hurt manfeels", "misogynists" and there is clear "convert sexism" in the community.

> > > Let me bring up the definition of sexism again:

> > > prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women (or men) , on the basis of sex.

> > > If you are one of those people saying those type of things, aren't you the one being truly sexist here?

> > > As a female, I think it's so disappointing that anyone would argue with feelings rather than facts or evidence of and then to blame the rest of us as masculine sensitivity overload.

> > >

> >

> > I have to disagree with one part of this: most of the women I’ve seen in this thread have been condemning JPs actions. It’s been predominantly men who have been rushing to defend her actions, like she is some poor delicate flower that only they can protect as opposed to a capable professional adult who should be held accountable for her own actions.

> >

> > It’s honestly been offensive to watch.

>

> Yeah. This whole situation can be accurately summed up as "She did this to herself."

 

Or it could... if people can just accept the bloody facts. Sadly I still see a small minority who are determined to keep the flames going.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> so.......what happened.....

> i see more fights here then on a facebook page about thor VS superman.

 

Superman is strong and all, but Thor wins easy...

 

But being serious...I am surprised that this thread is still going on lol, where is mods when you need them...but the basically everything goes down to how she responded to not only a customer, but a Anet partner as well...I didnt followed the whole thing, but the message that both she and the other dude that got fired is that they dont care for ours opinions or what we think...this is not the kind of image that the devs should pass to us....I mean, makes you think how many more devs probably follow the same thinking? Take a look at sPvP or WvW...its hard to say that this isnt true lol its something that many players have been saying for years, but now 2 devs basically gave proof that is actually true...

[Ragion.2831]

When I heard about this story my initial thought was Jessica was receiving verbal abuse from the PvP community and being a human she responded in kind (Which I would understand and defend even if it is wrong). After I read what happened, its more hilarious than anything.

 

What bothers me the most is that Deroir did everything possible to be objective but Jessica wasn't having it. Putting the feminism aside, she appeared to be in a box which i think comes from writing the same way for so many years.

 

Personally ive always had my issues with the writing in GW2 which is why i didn't like PvE much. Its so one dimensional that I couldnt handle being in PvE. If Jessica is an artist unable to take objective criticism then she is in the wrong line of profession.

 

In the end the blame rests solely on Arena Net. Knowing your employees art philosophy is essential in delivering a superior product. How Jessica got through the interview being irrational like that and worse being in a creative box is amazing to me.

 

In any case I wish her all the best and hope she becomes a better person.

[Imperadordf.2687]

The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling the conspiracists.

[Tolmos.8395]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling conspiracists.

 

Heh. Mo's post did just say 2 people got let go. Be hilarious to find out it was just 2 interns they caught smoking weed in the closet, and JP and PF were just happily writing away in the narrative room while everyone is eating each other like a pack of wild dogs on the forums. =D

 

Seriously, though, getting let go from a career position can be a jarring experience. A lot of folks just need to take a day to regather themselves. It doesn't seem like it would get to you, but when it happens it can definitely affect you more than you would think.

 

Another option is that they are speaking to employment attorneys to figure out their options, and are avoiding taking any action until the consultation is complete.

 

Whatever the cause, I wouldn't read anything into it.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling conspiracists.

>

> Heh. Mo's post did just say 2 people got let go. Be hilarious to find out it was just 2 interns they caught smoking weed in the closet, and JP and PF were just happily writing away in the narrative room while everyone is eating each other like a pack of wild dogs on the forums. =D

>

> Seriously, though, getting let go from a career position can be a jarring experience. A lot of folks just need to take a day to regather themselves. It doesn't seem like it would get to you, but when it happens it can definitely affect you more than you would think.

>

> Another option is that they are speaking to employment attorneys to figure out their options, and are avoiding taking any action until the consultation is complete.

>

> Whatever the cause, I wouldn't read anything into it.

 

I actually laughed. :x

Let's hope they both find new jobs, as better people.

[Blue Lupin.8290]

Having now read the entire 25 pages, I have to say since you seem so personally angry about this, perhaps it would be better to step away from Twitter for a while. As for JP's behavior, yeah she is an employee of Anet and should conduct herself professionally. If she is incapable of doing so, she should not engage other people on a public forum. Actions have consequences. Edit- meant that for Phosphorite.

[paintpixie.7398]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling the conspiracists.

 

It would be more likely to be a "conspiracy" kind of thing if it were removed immediately.

She probably has more to worry about than what her Twitter says right now. And it is embarrassing, too, for her, I'm sure. Developers weren't always mini e-celebrities, you know? Like others have said, I wish her the best. But I also hope that she does some self reflection and maybe sees what went wrong, too.

[Doobey Dibbles.2941]

Thank you for doing the right thing, ANet

[Greyraven.4258]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling the conspiracists.

 

She kept her title that she worked at Piazo long after she was asked to leave that company as well. No conspiracies....... just the ways she rolls I guess.

[thruine.8510]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"thruine.8510" said:

> > But what keeps anti-JPs in the fight? Is there something more than her being fired being needed? Maybe its manfeels (lol, I love that term... I'm going to have to use it more in my life).

> How incredibly sexist of you to ignore the actual women in this topic who dislike the way she handled herself..

>

> /s.

 

So this supposed women can't have manfeels?

 

[Fox Reeveheart.1890]

Thank you for taking a non-employees side on this. Feels like the last few years devs can say anything and just flat out get away with it in the vidya industry, yet if the same things were said anywhere else it would lead to immediate dismissal.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > @"thruine.8510" said:

> > > But what keeps anti-JPs in the fight? Is there something more than her being fired being needed? Maybe its manfeels (lol, I love that term... I'm going to have to use it more in my life).

> > How incredibly sexist of you to ignore the actual women in this topic who dislike the way she handled herself..

> >

> > /s.

>

> So this supposed women can't have manfeels?

>

No one can have those because it's a word without any meaning.

[Blaeys.3102]

While this was probably the best action for the game and the players, the people involved - and their families - were likely devastated by this. One is young and, given her social media history, has likely just destroyed her chance at any kind of real career in her chosen field. The other is a long time industry veteran who's salary was probably a big part of his family's livelihood. While it might be fun to some to look down on them for some truely stupid behavior, it's worth remembering that we all do and say stupid things. These are real people with real lives that are probably in deep turmoil today.

 

So while, as a customer and player, Im glad this worked out the way it did, I also know there was nothing positive about what just happened. Anet lost some real talent (no matter how stupid their recent behavior was), families (spouses, kids, pets, etc) lost needed income and someone likely lost their lifelong dream job. Nothing about that is worth celebrating.

[Atrelios.2765]

I personally do not know how this thread on the forum became a discussion about genders all of a sudden. There is nothing gender specific here. A person wrote something on their Social Media account referring to a product of a company they WORK FOR, which was an unhealthy discussion on that topic. Then this person started acting defensively, for some reason, and started being rude to one of the fans who was criticizing some of the aspects of that product. This became a problem, because they were talking about this in a place, where too many people can see the discussion and this created a bad PR for the product. There were no good options for the company in this case and they chose one of the available. Bad PR is generally a thing I can see people being fired over, since if done intentionally it can ruin a company. This probably was not done intentionally, but the company cannot risk it (and as far as I understand was not the first bad PR from the person in question). There is nothing gender specific here.

 

Side note: I think that private social media accounts are only private, if no one except the people you know can access them. Everything else is PUBLIC and therefore if you say something, you MUST be ready to accept that there will inevitably be people, who will disagree with you and will voice their opinion just like you. So if I say some nasty things for a company I work for on my twitter or even facebook profile (which are public) I will expect that if my boss hears about it i would get either fired or punished in some way.

[omgitsbees.8137]

> @"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

> Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

>

> I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

>

> Mo

 

So we are allowed to endlessly harass and berate your developers then? If they voice any sort of frustration at this then screw them, they will just be fired and have their careers ruined.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"omgitsbees.8137" said:

> > @"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

> > Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

> >

> > I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

> >

> > Mo

>

> So we are allowed to endlessly harass and berate your developers then? If they voice any sort of frustration at this then screw them, they will just be fired and have their careers ruined.

 

Is this really what you get from that statement? :facepalm:

[Koen.1327]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > > Justice right here:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Keep her job --> Bad PR --> bunch of rich shareholders might get less profit as potential business earnings both current and future might beplaced at risk __> more employees potentially have their jobs and livelihoods put at risk

> > > > 2. Fire her --> lost her income --> has time to reflect and hopefully learn how to take criticism when working in a position where it works hand in hand - whilst also learning how separate her personal and professional ideologies

> > >

> > > FIXED THAT FOR YA...

> > > >

> > > > this is the reality (if bad PR even exist to a certain extend) and a lot seem to have trouble finding a balance

> > > >

> > > > Of course Bad PR exists.. what no one knows is what damage it might do from one person/company to the next. A company's reputation takes a long time to build, but potentially one employees Twittertrash to destroy it. Therefore ANET were placed in a no win situation and handled it accordingly.

> > > You or I have no idea what took place internally to arrive at the outcomes it did and we do not know if any additional issues internally were also subject to the decision making process.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 1. yeah except that this is not how profit works (which is merely extortion of the employees); for the shareholders it won't change thus they don't care

> > 2. she has other things to worry about than reflecting

>

> I don't think you really have any kind of grasp on how business works, it's all in your head.

> Those shareholders put money into a business and in turn that business not only provides a product for us the players to buy, and hopefully enjoy.. it also employees many other people - hardly extortion of the shareholders. If for whatever reasons business drops then tough decisions may be needed so bad PR poses a risk not just to the shareholders but the business in general... and all those other people employed there.

> You think you wouldn't want to make money on a product that you have put a ton of your own money into to making it happen.. that is not extortion, that is business 101. ANET and its shareholders are not running a charity, they are running a business and that business requires its employees to act responsibly whether that be in work time or discussing work related content outside of work. It's that simple.

> JP let herself down and the company, and then tried to pull an ism for effect in the hope it would push an advantage in a discussion she wasn't coping well with. Lets hope she uses some of that paycheck to buy PF a very large beer and a whole lot of "I'm so sorry's"

 

who actually produced the product we are talking about? i know very well how business works and your explanation is merely an example of how the shareholders exercise their power (in terms of money, contacts, etc) to cut or hire people which is very true but that doesn't mean that they actually contributed to the product in any way.

[muffi.3964]

> @"omgitsbees.8137" said:

> > @"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

> > Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

> >

> > I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

> >

> > Mo

>

> So we are allowed to endlessly harass and berate your developers then? If they voice any sort of frustration at this then screw them, they will just be fired and have their careers ruined.

 

Engaging somebody who doesn't want to be engaged is not considered harassment anywhere.

[Twyn.7320]

No one's saying that losing a livelihood is great. However, it was the only rational outcome that ArenaNet had. They were about to lose a lot of business and financial gain if they didn't make the correct decision, in-keeping with the industry standard. She didn't just attack the Guild Wars 2 community, she attacked TotalBiscuit and other developers in the industry, and a Bioware developer was recently fired for the same thing. This story has already spread outwards to multiple media outlets, and the dismissal of the employees involved was the only ending to this horrendous farce.

 

It wasn't an easy decision to make, I'm sure of it. However, how can you keep someone who openly stated that she disliked the fanbase, and someone who supported them, in an office with other people who strongly care and love the community? It creates a horrid mood in the studio, and would damage productivity. Additionally, Jessica Price was in a position of authority in the company. Would the Narrative Team have felt passionate in delivering quality content in the future if she was still a part of the team, whilst knowing that she had no time for the wider community? As someone who knows how motivation throughout a large group works, it's a thin line. As soon as one person creates a horrid atmosphere, the company's productivity drops, and that's why Mike had no choice.

 

This was the correct punishment for their actions, whether people like it or not. Mike put ArenaNet's primary interests first: The Community and the other staff, over two people who didn't share the same values. They signed the contract, and they broke the terms of their contract. Now, can we move on from this fiasco and actually get back to promoting the game, rather than throwing it under the bus because of identity politics? 90% of the people involved in debating identity politics don't have the experience required to discuss it, only jump into factions and make matters worse, so let's move on.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

> I really think ANet's lax rules with regards to employee interacting about company matters outside of ANet controlled environment is as much to blame as anyone. Most companies have rules preventing this and whole PR departments to filter info to their customers. I'm not saying they shouldn't interact with players but rather it should be done on the official forums where their posts have a chance for review before going public and player responses can be moderated. Company related posts to outside social media should be either exclusively handled by management and the PR department or in the case of dev streaming events moderated by someone in PR.

 

But JP used her personal Twitter account to put out the feed and opened the floor.. how is that in anyway shape or form the fault of ANET's rules or your perceived lack of.

ANET will undoubtedly have rules around posting out on social media , they will also have official avenues in which to do it... JP went outside of that and there is nothing ANET could do until it became clear what had happened.. at which point they acted on it as any company would of/could of.

How it all unfolded from that point is none of our business, that is company business which will have relevant procedures to follow and contractual agreements to consider.. once that soup bowl is emptied decisions were made.

This is in no way ANETs fault, that lays squarely at the feet of JP. If ANET were able to snoop on every employees twitter account 24/7 then maybe it would of never seen the light of day, but that's highly unlikely and even if it were how do you then eliminate the possibility for employees like JP opening up other accounts across other social media platforms not approved by ANET so that she can carry out her SJW ideologies and bad mouth vitriol when challenged on anything work related she might posts out to those platforms.

 

Sorry the fault lies with JP not ANET.

[omgitsbees.8137]

> @"Twyn.7320" said:

> No one's saying that losing a livelihood is great.

>

 

You might want to go read through Jessica Price's mentions on Twitter.

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling the conspiracists.

 

Pretty sure she's suffering from twitterlergy right now. Give her time..