Cerethon.8250 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > It is sexist when you assume this is the cause for feedback. It's absolutely not different than having a sexist man assumes a dev is less competent because they're a woman. Or maybe you simply disagree that people should be able to provide feedback, but then it's not a gender issue at all. In each case, you don't have a rational point. And I dare to say, what you're saying can be true whether it's a man on woman, man and man, woman and woman, woman and man. This being used as a defense is why things were blew out of proportion. Do you have expertise at all to tell how a company CEO should react to an employee blowing things out of proportions, twisting narratives, and calling people sexist even though not ALL players disagreeing with her is a man? We live in a gray world. It's not all black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evon Skyfyre.9673 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > Three possible reasons: > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed Anything is possible I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > Only nobody told her how to do her job, if you read the actual tweets and not read what polygon/kotaku are telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > That is BS, Every publicly dev gets this treatment, its not sexism to hold an opinion on someone else's work and give them feedback! It can get annoying, but there is nothing actually wrong about it. Expertise is no reason to shut down or ignore suggestions either, since laypeople are actually pretty good at thinking outside the box without the restraints of said experience. And in games, most feedback should be welcomed, games should always be for the people since its an entertainment medium. Either way, the only Thing I learned about JP thought this is shes a pretty good journalistic fiction writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soa Cirri.6012 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > I'm not arguing that maths is not abstract. You seemed to be trying to argue (though maybe I misinterpreted) that it's impossible to prove whether an ethical belief is right or wrong because ethics is abstract. The point I was trying to make was that maths is abstract but it is possible to prove whether (some) mathematical statements are true or false, so it can't be the abstractness of ethics that prevents one from proving things about it. I called maths abstract in the same sense that ethics are abstract, and you characterized that as a "misuse" of the word abstract. Proofs within maths depend upon being derived from maths, just as proofs within ethics depend upon being derived from ethics. In other words, you can't prove something in maths by a concrete authority independent of maths, just as you can't prove something within ethics by a concrete authority independent of ethics. In either case, you must agree to ascribe to the abstraction to make any logical arguments within it, and there is no concrete external force of maths or ethics which demands that you adhere to one system of logic or another. In this quality, they share the characteristic of being abstract. I don't see how that can be any more clear. As for what I was trying to argue, it was nothing of the sort. I was arguing that JP was essentially fired for her beliefs and speech—which are intrinsic to her personal conception of ethics. Namely, something like "if sexism is used against you, you should retaliate insultingly." As an observer I cannot know what her ethics _truly_ are, though I have the same basis for judgment as anyone else in this thread, (and my estimation is also reinforced by her more extended interviews to various media outlets). While I would say it is at best paranoid, and at worst delusional, for her to conclude "sexism" from Deroir at all, let alone to the degree that she has, we cannot prove that she did _not_ personally derive that conclusion. But while logical arguments can be made against her ethics, _no one can prove that she doesn't believe them_. I was not arguing for moral relativism, only that everyone has a "right" to be "wrong" meta-ethically because to attempt to police people's ethics is itself normatively unethical. >To **punish someone** for their **profession of belief** is to assert that your beliefs are correct, and theirs aren't. (emphasis not in original) Many arguments in this thread have asserted that JP was justifiably fired for acting in accordance with her personal ethics, when the worst of her behavior amounted merely to speech. And "Speech," I believe, in addition to ethics (and certain bills of rights would comport with that belief) is another area where you have the "right" to be "wrong." Now, I can see how the following could have been interpreted as moral relativism, and I apologize for being unclear: >You're asserting that she's wrong, and you're right. But how do you prove that exactly? The more abstract the belief is, the more impossible it becomes to prove. The context was specifically for claiming the moral authority to punish someone over holding and professing divergent beliefs, which requires "proving" them wrong with justifiable, independent authority (I did not mean to refer to proofs _within_ the abstraction). Therefore only authority which can be construed in this case would be popular (general consensus)—but authority derived from consensus is not an ethical authority. As I said, this was a matter of philosophy, not maths. So back to reductio ad absurdum. What Ephamiel essentially said was, "If JP is entitled to attack someone because she holds a belief that is wrong, then she's entitled to attack someone if she holds the belief that 2+2=7." >reductio ad absurdum is a form of argument which attempts... to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion That seems to me to be a clear attempt at reductio ad absurdum. > @"Edge.4180" said: >if someone's looking at this from the perspective that Price's behavior was bad enough (in Mo's judgement) to warrant firing, and by that logic Fries's punishment should have thereby been something less severe.. well that's understandable. But it's also possible that Fries's behavior was actually bad enough (in Mo's judgement) to warrant firing It's entirely possible that MO merely thought PF was "bad enough;" yet for him to react that way given the vast difference between both offenders, not only in character but in value to the company, suggests a sort of myopic kind of decision-making. Everyone screws up. If someone has a major screw up once in two years, yes, that might be part of a pattern. Once in over 12 years, a screw up not as bad as the other? This is entire thread has become about approving or disapproving of MO's judgment on the matter, and as you admit, it is "understandable" to object to PF's receiving as harsh a punishment as JP. > @"Astralporing.1957" said: >There is however quite a wide margin of interpretation there. Okay let's break this down. >"Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company." -MO "attacks on the community were unacceptable" "as a result" = therefore "they’re" = both of them are "no longer with the company" According to MO, A (the attacks on the community) demanded (therefore) B (the response of removing them). To interpret that any other way is as much of a stretch as the guy saying Deroir could be reasonably interpreted as condescending in his remarks to JP. > I know, that i'd have been instantly fired from my job if i caused PR disaster on this scale. > "no communication communication policy" exactly because he feared things like that would happen. Speaking of PR disasters, this has fueled a games-industry-wide and highly critical examination of Anet which MO's lack of communication policy is only making worse. At this point it seems very likely, simply from a PR standpoint, that firing JP alone will have more extended repercussions than if she hadn't been fired. If this is whole thing is about minimizing damage, it would seem something of a Pyrrhic victory. This only goes to emphasize that "MO decided it, and he's in charge so he must be right," may not in fact be a justifiable premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadshow.9320 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Harper.4173" said: > > @"Dreadshow.9320" said: > > > @"Harper.4173" said: > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > @"Harper.4173" said: > > > > > And that's where people are wrong. Those titles might have meant something remotely positive maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Today as far as I see it they're a massive red flag. And by that I mean that statistically speaking - you have very good odds of finding someone who's completely unreasonable label themselves as such. Better odds than finding a decent human being. > > > > > Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm biased but as far as I've seen it - it seems to be the case. I guess all the normal people are more quiet and don't need to make everything into their personal crusade? > > > > > > > > Yes, that does sound biased. > > > > > > My bias keeps me nice and safe. > > > Bias and stereotype are defensive mechanisms - people have them in order to avoid things that are unpleasant. > > > I don't really understand why they're seen as bad - when most of the times they are going to keep you safe. > > > > I really don't understand the hate on stereotypes given the alternative is one monotype. And if Roger Watters and Pink Floyd thought us anything is that we don't want one monotype. > > It's not about hating people for being different - it's about recognizing that people who are different in certain ways are more likely to behave in some way or another. Using this you can predict their possible behavior easily at a glance and save yourself a lot of trouble and unpleasant interaction. It might not be something that's relevant in your part of the world but it certainly is where I'm from. > I'd look forward to seeing "unprejudiced" people having a good time with some of the people around where I live. > > Also I don't know how some entertainers are of any relevance when it comes to figuring out what is good and what isn't. I do hope you don't live your life following the advice of such individuals, seeing how every month or so we find out the absolute wrecked state of the lives they live through some suicide, overdose or other unfortunate event. All I'm saying is if we did not have Stereotypes we would all be the same droning about doing the exact samething their would be only one type of humans... The movie 1984 comes to mind. That world would be horrible to live in if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Soa Cirri.6012" said: > Speaking of PR disasters, this has fueled a games-industry-wide and highly critical examination of Anet which MO's lack of communication policy is only making worse. At this point it seems very likely, simply from a PR standpoint, that firing JP alone will have more extended repercussions than if she hadn't been fired. If this is whole thing is about minimizing damage, it would seem something of a Pyrrhic victory. Only you don't know what kind of PR disaster this could've been if JP wasn't fired... A PR disaster with the actual paying customers of this game and not some random other companies if I may add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > > > > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. > Please pinpoint in the three tweets by the Deroir where they were telling her how to do her job, or where they were being sexist as you put it, or where he was being demeaning in any way, you can find the links to the original tweets in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > Three possible reasons: > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. Newsflash, this happens to literally everyone. Don't believe it ? Just go look at any "balance thread" where people state the team is inept and doesn't know what they are doing. Gender has nothing to do with people telling others how to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soa Cirri.6012 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Only you don't know what kind of PR disaster this could've been if JP wasn't fired... I don't know for sure, that's true. But neither do you. Neither does anyone. _That's the point._ There is an assumption that some sort of GW2 apocalypse would come about had MO done anything but fire her and Peter. But there is no evidence that would happen. As I pointed out before, GW2 has undergone far, _far_ worse crises that have affected the entire community (not just the people who go on twitter and Reddit), for which _no one_ was punished, and the game somehow survived. This is a tempest in a teapot, and yet from the way people are characterizing it, the game's survival is purported to hinge upon it. Given the entire context of the game, I don't think that perspective is strictly rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > So what? There are plenty of men who get the same treatment. Try being a coach sometime. You will have plenty of people with no expertise telling you how to do your job constantly. How in the world is slightly disagreeing telling someone how to do their job anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > > > > > > > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. > > > > Please pinpoint in the three tweets by the Deroir where he was telling her how to do her job, or where they were being sexist as you put it, or where he was being demeaning in any way, you can find the links to the original tweets in the thread. the problem with them using microaggression is, microaggression is a buzzword which can mean anything, and as such allows anything said to become negative regardless of their intent, framing, or even reality. In fact them saying. "Look up microaggression." Would be a microaggression if you were a minority, since it could be inferred to be talking down to them. Basically 'Microaggression', while having a true usage in the past has become so watered down, it is a meaningless word which only shadows its true usage form. Microaggression was a word that was created simply as an affirmative action against minorities, and in itself... is kind of racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timetopat.7921 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 So I’d like to make a formal apology to gw2 forum moderation. When the news of this broke i thought the large online presence of people on Reddit had a hand in this and made a snarky thread about how people could do that to raid team or other groups. I was wrong and thread was mean spirited. I now understand after reading some interviews with Anet about how and why what happened happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > > > > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > > > > > > > It is sexist when you assume this is the cause for feedback. > > It's absolutely not different than having a sexist man assumes a dev is less competent because they're a woman. > > Or maybe you simply disagree that people should be able to provide feedback, but then it's not a gender issue at all. > > In each case, you don't have a rational point. > > And I dare to say, what you're saying can be true whether it's a man on woman, man and man, woman and woman, woman and man. This being used as a defense is why things were blew out of proportion. > > > > Do you have expertise at all to tell how a company CEO should react to an employee blowing things out of proportions, twisting narratives, and calling people sexist even though not ALL players disagreeing with her is a man? > > > > We live in a gray world. It's not all black and white. > > #notallplayers > Not sure what your point is. Care to explain? > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > > > > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. > Sexism isn't a one way street. Sexism is -usually- against women but that doesn't mean always. Especially in light of the arguments being thrown around in support of JP. What you're doing is typically sexism. You'll understand if you drop the double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge.4180 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. And every day gamers tell developers how to do their job, regardless of gender on either side. This sort of thing has been going on for as long as we've had forums where gamers could communicate with developers, and gender has absolutely nothing to do with that. Since you're determined to make it about gender, though, I'm wondering what your reaction would have been if Deroir had, like Price, been female? And what if Price had been male and Deroir had been the female? How would you be looking at Price's aggressive comments towards Deroir then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > > @"Dashingsteel.3410" said: > > > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > > > > > > > No, it would have been a reinforcement of sexism had they not fired JP. > > > > > > > > She is a woman in the video game industry. Every day men with no expertise tell her how to do her job. Its not sexist to call them out on it. > > > > > > > > > > It is sexist when you assume this is the cause for feedback. > > > It's absolutely not different than having a sexist man assumes a dev is less competent because they're a woman. > > > Or maybe you simply disagree that people should be able to provide feedback, but then it's not a gender issue at all. > > > In each case, you don't have a rational point. > > > And I dare to say, what you're saying can be true whether it's a man on woman, man and man, woman and woman, woman and man. This being used as a defense is why things were blew out of proportion. > > > > > > Do you have expertise at all to tell how a company CEO should react to an employee blowing things out of proportions, twisting narratives, and calling people sexist even though not ALL players disagreeing with her is a man? > > > > > > We live in a gray world. It's not all black and white. > > > > #notallplayers > > > Not sure what your point is. Care to explain? > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > > > > > > > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > > > > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > > > > I'm very disappointed with anets decision on this. I've played for years and the community has been so much more pleasant than other games. However, this is a blatant reinforcement of the pervasive sexism and harassment that is ubiquitous in the gaming world. I really thought anet and the guild wars community was better than this. > > > > > > And I am disappointed that you defend her ridiculous attack on a community member who was very respectful in his reply and instantly got the gender card pulled on him. There is nothing worse for women than women who just pull that gender card as soon as they hear something they don't like or read things into a post that objectively aren't there. > > > > > > > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. > > > Sexism isn't a one way street. Sexism is -usually- against women but that doesn't mean always. Especially in light of the arguments being thrown around in support of JP. > What you're doing is typically sexism. You'll understand if you drop the double standard. welcome to the new age of "marginalization"(in quotes because that is not always what the people are imo) defence. Any "marginalized" group are the only thing an ISM (racisim, sexism) can happen to. Basically they want to be the only victims, but also want to be jerks themselves with no repercussions of their actions. I wish I was making this up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evon Skyfyre.9673 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > > > Three possible reasons: > > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed > > 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. If 71 pages is not enough, what is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soa Cirri.6012 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cerethon.8250" said: > She deals with men telling her how to do her job every day. Look up microaggression. Sweet summer child: you've wandered into a den of hungry lions. I'm afraid you will find no refuge here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Soa Cirri.6012" said: > There is an assumption that some sort of GW2 apocalypse would come about had MO done anything but fire her and Peter. But there is no evidence that would happen. As I pointed out before, GW2 has undergone far, _far_ worse crises that have affected the entire community (not just the people who go on twitter and Reddit), for which _no one_ was punished, and the game somehow survived. This is a tempest in a teapot, and yet from the way people are characterizing it, the game's survival is purported to hinge upon it. Given the entire context of the game, I don't think that perspective is strictly rational. Those "crisis" were parts of decisions by the Arenanet team, discussed by the developers at length, even involving higher ups maybe? Like the Mount Adoption or the introduction of Ascended gear tiers? There is difference between something being a decision of multiple people, after healthy discussion and someone actively attacking the community. Price remaining unpunished would send a clear message, especially to her personally, that she can attack and harass anyone without provocation. Was firing the best option? Maybe not, but I'm willing to bet Jessica Price would never publicly apologize and acknowledge her fault, there is zero evidence by her past attitude AND her attitude after being fired, that would suggest she'd show any kind of remorse. So I don't think that option existed, even though it would've been the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > > > > > Three possible reasons: > > > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > > > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > > > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed > > > > 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. > > If 71 pages is not enough, what is? discussion has no cutoff point, it only ends when everyone loses interest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > > > > > Three possible reasons: > > > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > > > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > > > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed > > > > 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. > > If 71 pages is not enough, what is? Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > > > > > > > Three possible reasons: > > > > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > > > > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > > > > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed > > > > > > 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. > > > > If 71 pages is not enough, what is? > > Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle. You have to buy the game to get to the forums right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evon Skyfyre.9673 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said: > > > > > > So why is this thread allowed to continue? The very nature of it violates the "we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees" intent no? > > > > > > > > > > Three possible reasons: > > > > > 1) They think if they close this 3 more will pop up, which is highly likely as that's what happened when JP started this mess. Multiple threads appearing constantly. > > > > > 2) Those with the authority to close it are on vacation, which is quite possible we are mid summer after all, perfect time for a vacation > > > > > 3) They don't find the comments here disrespectful, after all some posters have been banned/reported for posts in this thread, so they might well look at this thread and take action when needed > > > > > > > > 4) If ANet were to close the discussion, the gaming "media" would jump all over it. Consider the impact of the headline: "ArenaNet shuts down forum discussion of Dev dismissal." Compare that to the fact that there is a lot of support for ANet in this thread, and they aren't reporting that at all. > > > > > > If 71 pages is not enough, what is? > > > > Notice how these pages are fueled by misinformed 1-post accounts that post their pieces about evil sexism and harassment painting the aggressor as the victim, and then responses towards them, and so on in a circle. > > You have to buy the game to get to the forums right? Or download ftp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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