GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Mannah.4012]

I'm sad of what happened but I think Peter Fries didn't deserve get fired. Maybe Anet should have given him a scolding but not this...

[Dubbiz.9734]

Thank you for taking care of the situation. I have nothing but respect for your company and the (remaining) devs. I realize this might hurt your will to keep being so awesome in community interactions, but I trust you did and will keep doing the right thing.

 

It still hurts a little to see Peter go, though.

[melodyca.8921]

This thread perfectly states why this is a dangerous precedent.

[Zedek.8932]

> @"OrbitalButt.5708" said:

> > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > man that sucks , i'd rather people learn from their mistakes and such , we all deserve second chances, but it is understood the situation was pretty ballistic and generated an over abundance of : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Salt .

>

> She's been viciously attacking people for YEARS, this wasn't just a single mistake

>

> You reap what you sow

 

Mike talks in plural though.

[tekfan.3179]

> @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> Close this thread Please.

 

Seconded.

I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"melodyca.8921" said:

>

> This thread perfectly states why this is a dangerous precedent.

 

This assumes that action is taken without thorough research into any accusations. Any company that takes action on the whim of baseless accusations is obviously not a good company to support or work for.

Anet, being a company as big as it is, that has strived to provide a product for as long as it has done, welcomes input from its vast community, won’t make decisions from non-vetted sources, and will do internal research and investigations.

Would a Dev who is openly and publicly being racist to its playerbase be subject to this persons ideal of “don’t succumb to player outrage”? Doubt it. So why is sexism different?

 

In this circumstance, it was evident of misconduct from this particular employee.

Players of this game *already* demand unreasonable and unrealistic changes to the content, all of which are shot down by the sane majority of the community that know their boundaries of what is a suggestion and what is a demand.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> > Close this thread Please.

>

> I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

So?

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

As reference, since people are going back and forth on it and the _initial set of posts_ can be hard to find, here’s a link. (Its before the main set of insults started): https://archive.is/btLu8

 

I found it to be somewhat obvious in what he was asking for, but no more than what I see on a usual day in this forum. Imo all she needed to do was say it’s been considered before and ruled out because of time and cost issues.

[Zahld.4956]

Someone make a poll. Yes or no to the actions that transpired

[tekfan.3179]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > > @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> > > Close this thread Please.

> >

> > I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

> So?

>

 

So that it would be interesting wether these are actual players who give their two cents, or people who decided to come to this forum to discuss the whole topic on a non-gw2-related level. Because then this topic is derailing from general game discussion and should be either closed or moved to a different section of the forum.

[Zedek.8932]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> Players of this game *already* demand unreasonable and unrealistic changes to the content, all of which are shot down by the sane majority of the community that know their boundaries of what is a suggestion and what is a demand.

 

Well, if you think about the Deadeye rework that nobody asked for, and the 3 weeks of feedback of what's wrong, what should be tweaked etc. from players of that profession - and mind us, first the true rifle Deadeyes were super low in nunmbers, second we are seriously in need of proper changes or even buffs, especially in PvE compared to othes - was totally ignored. Hearing stuff like "[We] never asked for your opinion" was and IS still evident to this day - Robert Gee has not posted anything so far, so much about "We make the game for you" - pretty obvious that Mr. Fries just said it out loud what we already knew before. It just surfaced.

 

The same about the occassional "forum censorship" threads that pop up. Nobody asks for trolls running rampant, but seeing so many people going to Reddit because of a unnecessarily strict forum moderation is a warning sign. Mrs. Grey even said in one of thread when it popped up that she gets input from it and possible change something. Of course she turned silent and Mr. Fries statement - "We never asked for your opinion" comes into my mind yet again.

 

Firing the people and pump up a 5-liner from Mr. O'Brien and everyone's happy again? No way.

 

 

 

 

[Soopa.5931]

In general I am sorry it came to this.

I am sorry things escelated like this and I am sorry that this kind of decision had to be made. I am not going to congratulate for it, as I know the burden this carries.

 

I just hope, that in future, things will be approached differently, so that the case like this does not repeat. This is up to employers to see to it and decide how to aproach this.

 

Communication between devs and community can be great and I do hope this does not discourage anyone from taking this step.

We are grateful for all you do and that we can enjoy it.

 

Good vibes to all.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > > > @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> > > > Close this thread Please.

> > >

> > > I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

> > So?

> >

>

> So that it would be interesting wether these are actual players who give their two cents, or people who decided to come to this forum to discuss the whole topic on a non-gw2-related level. Because then this topic is derailing from general game discussion and should be either closed or moved to a different section of the forum.

 

Of course they're actual players. You can only post here if you have a paid for account. Only a minority of the player base posts here regularly.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > > > @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> > > > Close this thread Please.

> > >

> > > I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

> > So?

> >

>

> So that it would be interesting wether these are actual players who give their two cents, or people who decided to come to this forum to discuss the whole topic on a non-gw2-related level. Because then this topic is derailing from general game discussion and should be either closed or moved to a different section of the forum.

 

You have to have a paid account to post in this forum.

[apharma.3741]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also, seriously, his magic solution is branching dialogue? **I would have ridiculed him just for that.**

> >

> > That sure worked out great for everyone involved, didn't it? Maybe you should take notes.

> >

> > > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > > Oh, I'm not denying that I am ridiculing him. If he came here and posted an angry retort, I would not be surprised or offended.

> >

> > He won't. He's a bigger person than you.

>

> He loses nothing from my comments. However, his comments can hurt other people. Interesting, right?

 

I think you need to stop for a bit, take a step back and look at what you're defending and in some ways encouraging. If you look at JP's twitter it is filled with eyebrow raising comments that you should be conscious about **publicly** saying, however you feel, if you decide to be associated with your work. Responding the way she did (to D and I) shows poor anger management at best and at worst is a blatant character assassination.

 

If I ever spoke to a customer or patient in the manner she did I would unquestionably not be employed there again. Certainly if I publicly said the things she said on twitter (whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant) I would be struck off the register and at least for the short term be unable to work in my field, I would argue it would result in a permanent removal with no chance of being re-admitted. For this reason I do not have twitter, instagram and my facebook is completely private if not shut down.

 

By the way JP wrote a publicly available article or at least multiple public tweets about why writing for the PC in Guild Wars 2 was difficult, that was the originator of all this and it is 100% linked to GW2. When you write an article as a professional you open yourself up to criticism and the **consequences** of what you write both in the article and follow ups.

 

That's my opinion by the way, feel free to ignore it, take it on board or wright a 1 line dismissive. I would also encourage others to do the same on the other side, step back and see what they're defending and encouraging because there's been some pretty eyebrow raising comments from the community too.

 

Edit: Minor grammar changes.

[aspirine.5839]

I found it a bit harsh that Peter lost his job btw, only thing he did wrong was to try and defend that vile creature. Bad taste perhaps but nothing to get fired for in his 12 years of good work.

[tekfan.3179]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > > > > @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> > > > > Close this thread Please.

> > > >

> > > > I've seen so many posts by persons who never engaged on this forum before, except to cheer/boo in this specific topic.

> > > So?

> > >

> >

> > So that it would be interesting wether these are actual players who give their two cents, or people who decided to come to this forum to discuss the whole topic on a non-gw2-related level. Because then this topic is derailing from general game discussion and should be either closed or moved to a different section of the forum.

>

> Of course they're actual players. You can only post here if you have a paid for account. Only a minority of the player base posts here regularly.

 

Alright. Then it's my bad.

I'm playing since the beta and was under the assumption that the forums turned open with the free-to-play-change. Seems I've been wrong about that.

 

Still...I find it sad that such a topic evokes so many first posts rather than actual game-related questions or feedback.

[melodyca.8921]

 

See how this has emboldened people? Do some of you actually approve of this behavior?

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"melodyca.8921" said:

> https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8weymk/today_was_a_huge_win_for_players_doing_what_i_can/e1vnkwr/

>

> See how this has emboldened people? Do some of you actually approve of this behavior?

 

Approve of wanting a company to treat its customers like human beings? Yes.

Approve of stamping out explosive sexism? Yes.

Approve of eliminating online witch hunting and bullying that started with JPs retweet and replies to several community members? Yes.

 

It was not ok JP reacting the way she did. The majority of posts I’ve seen do not approve of her actions, because normal humans treat others with respect.

 

 

[Rawalanche.3897]

I am a old timer GW2 supporter. I've bought the game back when it was in beta, and had a lot of fun. Way more than worth the money. I always felt like ArenaNet was here truly for the players. After I grew a bit older, I did not have that much time for gaming anymore, but I still played here and there. Just today, I head the news of the inappropriate attitude some of the ArenaNet staff had towards the community, and the rapid resolution of the situation by firing these staff members.

 

While I generally do not wish anyone to be fired, what I literally can not stand is games (or any forms of entertainment for that matter) being shaped or influenced by identity politics. This strong move from ArenaNet has given me a great confidence in both GW2 as well their yet to be released games. I will likely get back to GW2, play at least a bit and probably spent a few bucks in gem store, mainly to reward ArenaNet for their pro-community stance. I feel lots of gratitude towards anyone who exercises common sense and resilience against small, but very loud crowds of ill minded people such as the person this thread is about.

 

Thank you. :)

Grateful GW2 player

[fireanne.7682]

The only thing I want to say here as a female working for a IT company - all of you who say this proves misogyny, if you truly care about women, please stop and take an actual good look at what the issue is here. She said she was right and that people disagreed with her because she is a woman. She was not right and her being a woman has nothing to do with it.

Marking things like these as misogyny only hurts the cases where women actually are harassed because of being women. I am not saying she never could have faced harassment for being a woman, it is possible. But it has nothing to do with this particular issue.

[Amatyr.2564]

> @"Mike O Brien.4613" said:

> Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.

>

> I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.

>

> Mo

 

Well, this is a toxic response from the company to a situation that could have been resolved in a much less traumatic way. How incredibly disappointing.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

AOUCH it might be a little too rough?

[Haleydawn.3764]

Just because your job is a narrative writer, doesn’t mean you are the best at it. It doesn’t mean you’re good. It definitely doesn’t mean you’re immune to criticism.

Good writers develop their skills from practice and critique from outside sources.

You don’t improve if everyone tells you you’re amazing all the time. But JP is OBVIOUSLY the very best at creative writing and everyone else is hating on her because she’s got a snootch. /s

 

But, just because the suggestion may have already been said before or considered before, it doesn’t excuse JPs behaviour

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"melodyca.8921" said:

>

> This thread perfectly states why this is a dangerous precedent.

 

Curious how that was posted not even half an hour before you linked it here. Did you write that?

 

Regardless, this guy (he/him) is assuming the company is at the absolute mercy of the userbases whims and that this decision came about solely because it was demanded of them.

 

While the community certainly put the spotlight on things here, what was illuminated speaks for itself.

 

Anet isn't stupid. It isn't going to let reddit or the userbase run it into the ground and despite guy's view of gamer communities, GW2 in particular is a shining example.

 

Vast majority of players here are diehard fans and support the company and the game even if we don't always agree on everything.

 

 

We rarely, if ever, agree on everything.

 

 

MO put the players and the community first and that had to have been excruciatingly hard. For a lot of the team I'm sure they're not just co-workers. They're friends. Nobody "won" in this situation. It's just unfortunate.

 

But we'll all move on.